Would Goldeneye have been a success with Dalton?

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  • Posts: 11,189
    Some of the "gags" in in TLD are quite poor and spoil an otherwise decent film (I loathe the sequence with Rosita What'sherface and the supervisor). However, I don't mind the Cello stuff. (Bit of a push calling it a "cinematic masterpiece though ;) ).
  • Posts: 7,405
    We have to remember TLD was written for Moore! They only altered it when Dalton signed up, and they knew his was going to be a harder edged Bond! That's why they dumped the infamous flying carpet sequence! Would have been acceptable for Moore, but not Dalton! But I agree, the cello sequence doesn't fit in with Daltons portrayal! Way too much good stuff in TLD for the cello scene to blight it though!
    I believe John Glen had to persuade Cubby and Wilson to use the cello scene! Cubby should have stood his ground and said No!
  • Posts: 4,813
    Oh boy, that flying carpet had Moore's name written all over it!
  • Posts: 11,189
    Mathis1 wrote: »
    We have to remember TLD was written for Moore! They only altered it when Dalton signed up, and they knew his was going to be a harder edged Bond! That's why they dumped the infamous flying carpet sequence! Would have been acceptable for Moore, but not Dalton! But I agree, the cello sequence doesn't fit in with Daltons portrayal! Way too much good stuff in TLD for the cello scene to blight it though!
    I believe John Glen had to persuade Cubby and Wilson to use the cello scene! Cubby should have stood his ground and said No!

    This is why I don't consider Glen an "under-appreciated" director in the Bond series. He has his moments, but he's essentially a light-weight director. Outside of Bond I can't think of anything of note he's done as a director.
  • JeffreyJeffrey The Netherlands
    Posts: 308
    Would GE have been a success with Glen? :-P
  • Posts: 7,405
    Glen struggled to get anything decent after Bond. He claimed producers wouldn't touch him because he was used to such large budgets on the Bond flicks(??)
    Glens background was in Television and second unit work, and maybe this showed. But I do think he dids a fine job with his 5 movies, particularly the ones with Dalton!
    I feel he would have done okay with GE, I don't think Campbells work is particularly outstanding on GE (He did far superior work on CR, but then he had better material to work with!)
  • Posts: 11,189
    I like Glen and agree that, for the most part he was decent (AVTAK being the poorer one of his films). However, I think of the two men, Campbell does seem to have a little bit more flair to his direction. It needed improving in GE but I think there were some great moments. The statue park scene in particular is great visually and very well directed in my view.

  • Posts: 16,149
    On one Bond site I read Moore actually was in talks for DAYLIGHTS and Bette Davis was considered as a villain. Script acknowledged Moore's advancing years as well. Like to find out more on this.
    I think had Glen directed GE the film would have been faster paced and a bit more stunt oriented. Although many may pooh- pooh Glen's work, all 5 of his films are extremely watchable. He's one of my favorite 007 directors, really. In a way I prefer directors that are "Bond directors" like Glen, Guy Hamilton, and Terence Young to the more prestigious names like Mendes, Michael Apted, etc. On ANY given day I'd rather watch FYEO, and TLD over TWINE or SP.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited August 2016 Posts: 23,883
    Glen was great with the action, but his shot framing wasn't the best (he didn't showcase the locations as well as he could imho) and he didn't really know how to imbue the films with classiness. Campbell showed that one doesn't need a massive budget to give the film a little flair.

    The GE Monte Carlo chase scene or the following casino scene for example are very stylish in a pure Bondian manner. Compare that with the casino scenes in FYEO, LTK or even the sad one in TWINE (realize this is Apted). There's a coolness factor there that Glen didn't quite capture.
  • edited August 2016 Posts: 11,189
    bondjames wrote: »
    Glen was great with the action, but his shot framing wasn't the best (he didn't showcase the locations as well as he could imho) and he didn't really know how to imbue the films with classiness. Campbell showed that one doesn't need a massive budget to give the film a little flare.

    The GE Monte Carlo chase scene or the following casino scene for example are very stylish in a pure Bondian manner. Compare that with the casino scenes in FYEO, LTK or even the sad one in TWINE (realize this is Apted). There's a coolness factor there that Glen didn't quite capture.


    Yep

    This may sound a bit harsh against Glen but I think his style would look more outdated against the big contemporary directors in the 90s (namely the likes of James Cameron, Renny Harlin, John Woo, Quentin Tarantino, Danny Boyle etc).

    Glen did some solid work in Bond but I think, like Mathis1 said, his films all had that slightly "TV-like" feel to them (soft lighting, slightly cheap sets etc). I understand Campbell was originally a TV director too, but the faster pacing he had (particularly with the action) worked for the 90s era of filmmaking.
  • Posts: 7,405
    I wasn't putting Glen down by saying his films were TV like. Its just his background was in television so it reflects on his film work. There were some nice visual moments in TLD, the horses crossing in front of the safehouse as Bond drives in, the camera panning across the military vehicles and planes with the evening Sun piercing through. LTK becomes more visual in the Mexico scenes rather than Florida. Its Glens interiors which have a TV movie feel, being too well lit. But we've become spoiled by the Bond movies employing top notch cinematographers like Roger Deakins and Hoyte van Hoytema!
    Glen was an action specialist and he always filmed those with a keen eye. And he did know how to tell a story, other than say Michael Apted, a more experienced film Director (who also worked in TV) on the rather drab TWINE!
  • edited August 2016 Posts: 11,189
    the safe-house sequence in TLD is excellent but, to me, even the look of that location seems like it would fit in a television drama of some sort.

    He has more of a "cinematic" look later on when they are in the desert and you see the shots of the landscape.
  • Posts: 16,149
    I'll agree about Campbell's casino scenes being more visually striking in GE as well as CR than Glen's in FYEO. However, in the cinematic release, LTK's casino sequence had a glitz look to it compared to the rest of the film. The lighting, Talisa's red dress, the blue on the blackjack table, and Sanchez' striped shirt all popped out. The rest of the film looked dirty and almost deliberately grainy. On blu-ray, though the film is pretty much uniform in look throughout.
    I'd say some of Glen's best unsung work is the most cinematic in the series: the ski jump in TSWLM for instance.
    Also he could direct light hearted Bonds OP and AVTAK, then later completely change tone with LTK.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,392
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    I'll agree about Campbell's casino scenes being more visually striking in GE as well as CR than Glen's in FYEO. However, in the cinematic release, LTK's casino sequence had a glitz look to it compared to the rest of the film. The lighting, Talisa's red dress, the blue on the blackjack table, and Sanchez' striped shirt all popped out. The rest of the film looked dirty and almost deliberately grainy. On blu-ray, though the film is pretty much uniform in look throughout.
    I'd say some of Glen's best unsung work is the most cinematic in the series: the ski jump in TSWLM for instance.
    Also he could direct light hearted Bonds OP and AVTAK, then later completely change tone with LTK.

    I agree, it's a stunning transfer.
  • edited August 2016 Posts: 1,631
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    I'll agree about Campbell's casino scenes being more visually striking in GE as well as CR than Glen's in FYEO. However, in the cinematic release, LTK's casino sequence had a glitz look to it compared to the rest of the film. The lighting, Talisa's red dress, the blue on the blackjack table, and Sanchez' striped shirt all popped out. The rest of the film looked dirty and almost deliberately grainy. On blu-ray, though the film is pretty much uniform in look throughout.
    I'd say some of Glen's best unsung work is the most cinematic in the series: the ski jump in TSWLM for instance.
    Also he could direct light hearted Bonds OP and AVTAK, then later completely change tone with LTK.

    I would have to agree, but at the same time part of me, despite ranking LTK and TLD at #1 and #3 respectively, kind of wishes that someone else had gotten to take a crack at a Dalton Bond film. An overhaul of the creative team behind the films could have maybe given the franchise the jumpstart it needed after it began to lag with audiences a bit during the 80s. For instance, a Brian De Palma-directed LTK could have been really interesting.

    That said, I like all of Glen's entries in the franchise. Even though the 80s generally aren't looked at as the best decade of the franchise, there wasn't, IMO, a dud among those films and, if my memory serves correctly, I believe all but AVTAK is in my top 10, and even that film isn't nearly as bad as people make it out to be.
  • Posts: 11,425
    Absolutely. Personally I see the 80s as one of the most consistent and entertaining decades
  • JeffreyJeffrey The Netherlands
    Posts: 308
    I think Glen did a solid job on the films he directed, but I wonder how much different GE would have been if he had directed it instead of Campbell.

    I admire how Glen most of the time managed to use believable "backing screens". For years I did not notice that the tracks under the train in OP, when Bond is fighting Gobinda, where in fact fake.
    The way the entire train scene is made is absolutely great.
  • Posts: 1,052
    I think Glen did a decent job, I think FYEO, OP and AVTAK all look pretty cinematic, I think TLD may seem to look a bit dull but this maybe because of the locations, not so many scenes in sunny climates more down to earth European cities.
    I would say Campbell's direction was fairly workmanlike but sometimes that's what you need!
  • Posts: 11,425
    Campbell did two. One was appalling and one was excellent.

    Glen did five, four of which are excellent and one of which is okay.
  • Posts: 11,425
    The silence at the moment on B25 is reminiscent of the gap after LTK.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    Hardly.
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    Getafix wrote: »
    The silence at the moment on B25 is reminiscent of the gap after LTK.

    Sadly I have to agree.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    It's only been a year since SP came out! Sheesh, the overreaction is nuts. Where's the logic?
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    Getafix wrote: »
    Campbell did two. One was appalling and one was excellent.

    Glen did five, four of which are excellent and one of which is okay.

    I wouldn't call CR appalling, that's a bit harsh.
    GE is excellent, agreed.
    ;)
  • Posts: 16,149
    Getafix wrote: »
    The silence at the moment on B25 is reminiscent of the gap after LTK.
    A year after LTK, though we knew for certain Alfonse Ruggiero was penning the script for BOND 17 and a new director would be at the helm. Also we knew Tim was coming back.
    Makes me wonder why, once the court case was settled, Eon didn't just resume the film they were going to do? Starting from scratch added another 2 years to that gap.
    I'd like to think things are developing behind the scenes for B25 as we speak.

  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited November 2016 Posts: 23,883
    Isn't this more like the post-QoS break? We'll probably see B25 by 2019 which is a 4 yr gap. I realize that they were talking with Mendes for SF far earlier in the cycle last time out, but who says that's not going on behind the scenes now anyway.

    Mendes says he is out, so there's nothing to stop EON from broaching the subject of Bond with potential director candidates.
  • Posts: 1,680
    Mendes can be lured back. IF the story is interesting enough he will be tempted.
  • Posts: 11,425
    Yes I think they're all just taking a break and Mendes and Craig will be back for a 2019 release.

    Although would Waltz and Mendes work together again? Doesn't sound like they were best mates on set
  • Major_BoothroydMajor_Boothroyd Republic of Isthmus
    Posts: 2,722
    Getafix wrote: »
    Yes I think they're all just taking a break and Mendes and Craig will be back for a 2019 release.

    Although would Waltz and Mendes work together again? Doesn't sound like they were best mates on set

    Maybe (in the words of Hudson in Aliens) I haven't been keeping up with current events - but I never heard they didn't get on. Might actually explain waltz' performance a little for me. So what's the gossip?
  • Posts: 11,425
    He gave a very frank interview recently where he basically said there was a disagreement about the portrayal of his character. He was very honest in admitting he didn't nail it. The impression he gave was of someone who didn't particualrly enjoy the experience and felt they had not been allowed to give their all. Someone will be able to find it. It was posted on here very recently.
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