Would Goldeneye have been a success with Dalton?

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  • edited November 2016 Posts: 11,425
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    Getafix wrote: »
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    Broz could often overact but I don't think Dalton was always that subtle either.

    His angry stares, dramatic looks round, deep breathing etc. Sometimes you could see him trying to sell it (when he finds Della, with Lupe at the casino).

    You're right. He should have done more pain face.

    He does do a painface sometimes like when he's attacked by the jailer and Necros and again on the conveyor belt in LTK. He even did the same face in Flash Gordon at one point.

    He was always acting.

    Guilty as charged! Actor caught acting shocker! You'd never accuse Brozza of acting.
  • edited November 2016 Posts: 11,189
    Getafix wrote: »
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    Getafix wrote: »
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    Broz could often overact but I don't think Dalton was always that subtle either.

    His angry stares, dramatic looks round, deep breathing etc. Sometimes you could see him trying to sell it (when he finds Della, with Lupe at the casino).

    You're right. He should have done more pain face.

    He does do a painface sometimes like when he's attacked by the jailer and Necros and again on the conveyor belt in LTK. He even did the same face in Flash Gordon at one point.

    He was always acting.

    Guilty as charged! Actor caught acting shocker!

    But the acting shouldn't show. That's the whole point.

    ...and yes I am well aware of Brozza's overacting.
  • edited November 2016 Posts: 11,425
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    Getafix wrote: »
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    Getafix wrote: »
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    Broz could often overact but I don't think Dalton was always that subtle either.

    His angry stares, dramatic looks round, deep breathing etc. Sometimes you could see him trying to sell it (when he finds Della, with Lupe at the casino).

    You're right. He should have done more pain face.

    He does do a painface sometimes like when he's attacked by the jailer and Necros and again on the conveyor belt in LTK. He even did the same face in Flash Gordon at one point.

    He was always acting.

    Guilty as charged! Actor caught acting shocker!

    But the acting shouldn't show. That's the whole point.

    Gimme Dalts bad acting over Brozza's acting masterclass any day
  • edited November 2016 Posts: 11,189
    Getafix wrote: »
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    Getafix wrote: »
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    Getafix wrote: »
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    Broz could often overact but I don't think Dalton was always that subtle either.

    His angry stares, dramatic looks round, deep breathing etc. Sometimes you could see him trying to sell it (when he finds Della, with Lupe at the casino).

    You're right. He should have done more pain face.

    He does do a painface sometimes like when he's attacked by the jailer and Necros and again on the conveyor belt in LTK. He even did the same face in Flash Gordon at one point.

    He was always acting.

    Guilty as charged! Actor caught acting shocker!

    But the acting shouldn't show. That's the whole point.

    Gimme Dalts bad acting over Brozza's acting masterclass any day

    Neither are great screen actors.

    Dalton is the better actor because of his intense stage training but even with him you sensed he was sometimes trying to sell the scene.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited November 2016 Posts: 23,883
    Both Dalton and Brosnan were guilty of overacting. It was disappointing to see, although they both also had their moments.

    I'm thankful that Craig has taken us back to understated Bondian cool during dramatic moments, which was missing for a while during the late 80's and 90's imho.
  • Posts: 11,189
    I think Dalton had some really nice lower key moments that I couldn't see Brosnan playing as well (outside Felix's house for example in LTK, a moment that felt sad and natural). It was when he had to be big and dramatic (particularly in LTK funnily enough) that it felt more mannered.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    Getafix wrote: »
    Murdock wrote: »
    Unlike the overactive and often hammy Dalton. :P

    I think you mean his subtle and nuanced reinterpretation of the literary and filmic Bond.

    I think I'm finally getting your sense of humor. Dalton was nowhere near the written page like his fans like to boast he was.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    @Murdock, I agree with you. I never found Fleming's Bond angry and chronically bitchy. I never found him to be melodramatic, nor guilty for feeling hedonistic desire. Dalton was far too stagey to be Bond (although he did look the part!)
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    @Peter agreed, Aside from looking the Part, Dalton just lacks the charisma. His random anger fits are just cringe worthy. Like when Pam gets shot in the back and he starts yelling at her for no reason, it's not her damn fault. Fleming's Bond could be bitter and mumble bitch under his breath but he never exploded into an over reactive state like Dalton constantly did.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    @Murdock, yes, he was cringe-worthy. There was no charm, just anger. Always. His take on 007 was self-hating. Fleming's Bond was introspective. And, yes, depressed at times (YOLT), but he didn't hate himself. Dalton seemed to detest his job, his superior and himself.
  • Posts: 11,189
    I don't really have a problem with Dalton's anger at Pam in that scene. It suits Bond's rather sexist view of females in the field, not to mention that Pam was very blasé about almost being killed.

    Dalton's dramatic look of surprise at Pam when he sees she's moving I'm less sure about.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    His sexist view of women in the field is fine, It's his lousy overreaction that's the problem. He just comes off as whiney.
  • Posts: 12,462
    I know Dalton's a favorite for many here, but he's always taken last place in my ranking of the EON Bond actors. I don't dislike him - I simply enjoy watching the other 5 more.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    Same. I find him to be a mixed bag. Great at times and downright terrible at other times.
  • Posts: 11,425
    Murdock wrote: »
    Getafix wrote: »
    Murdock wrote: »
    Unlike the overactive and often hammy Dalton. :P

    I think you mean his subtle and nuanced reinterpretation of the literary and filmic Bond.

    I think I'm finally getting your sense of humor. Dalton was nowhere near the written page like his fans like to boast he was.

    I don't do humour - just cold, hard facts.
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    Craig's underacting = lack of talent
    Dalton would put Craig to shame if they played scenes together.
    Like Green did with Craig.
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    Posts: 13,978
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    I get the slick argument for TND (though I don't have a problem with it), but I don't see how his hair in TWINE called be called slick. In TWINE, his hair didn't have that wet look, like it did in TND.
    In the TND film book that came out during it's release there was a section that described what gel and pomade products were used for PB in TND. I felt the length he had in DAD was probably the best compromise between his longer GE look and the businessman like TWINE do.

    I knew it! Brosnans hair care routine single handedly damaged the ozone layer.

    As for Craig, I could never accuse him of overacting. Has he ever played an actual robot? Because if he did, his would be the best robotic acting ever, he's had enough experience doing it.

    @BondJasonBond006 - You beat me to it.
  • Posts: 16,149
    Interesting really to compare the performance styles of the different Bond actors. Makes me wonder what processes they were trained with. I'm pretty sure Sean just drew on his own experiences and learned early as we went along. George, had a quick acting class (like many, many, many many people and aspiring actors I've known), his own life experiences and instincts.
    Roger and Tim both trained classically at RADA, and Tim later at the ....I forget which Shakespearean company, and Pierce at The Drama Centre.
    Daniel started as a kid at National Youth theatre and continued training at Guildhall.
    I don't believe any of them are method actors except possibly Daniel. Anyone have any info or feedback on that?
    They all have their own little quirks and "acting habits"- hence Pierce's pain face. Actually, to me one of his trademarks is his tendency to shout, and that little "eh?" he punctuates lines with. One of my favorite Pierce-isms was in Around The World In 80 Days at the end when he's discovered he saved himself 24 hours by traveling in the direction of the sun. The way he shouts "ONE FULL DAY!!!!!!!!!!!!" is so Pierce, I annoy my friends with it constantly, and am surprised it hasn't become as much catchphrase as his Taffin line.
    Tim, in LTK does indicate a bit, especially his grimness expression. A sort of re-presentational style he's got down to an art. I always felt, though, throughout Licence, there might have been better takes used.
    I do feel, Sean, Roger and Daniel are the champions of Bond when it comes to naturalness. Especially Sean. He's pretty subtle. Same with Roger.
  • Posts: 11,425
    Tim dropped out of RADA. Pierce arguably has more taught training as an actor.
  • Posts: 25
    What I don't quite understand about Dalton is how, in his early interviews, he's almost bubbling with enthusiasm for the part, and relishing the upcoming challenge. And then, when you see the finished films, he just appears to be extremely uncomfortable in the role, as if he'd much rather be somewhere else entirely. I wonder what happened along the way?
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    WSD77 wrote: »
    What I don't quite understand about Dalton is how, in his early interviews, he's almost bubbling with enthusiasm for the part, and relishing the upcoming challenge. And then, when you see the finished films, he just appears to be extremely uncomfortable in the role, as if he'd much rather be somewhere else entirely. I wonder what happened along the way?
    John Glen probably. Apparently they didn't really see eye to eye. Moreover, MGM was never sold on Dalton, so he may have faced some resistance which may have impacted his enthusiasm.
  • Posts: 11,425
    Dalton didn't appreciate his good fortune IMO. I think he has inner demons. He was forty, had pretensions to being a great actor and was probably having trouble resigning himself to being in John Glen directed Bond films, rather than Terence Young classics
  • Posts: 4,325
    Getafix wrote: »
    Dalton didn't appreciate his good fortune IMO. I think he has inner demons. He was forty, had pretensions to being a great actor and was probably having trouble resigning himself to being in John Glen directed Bond films, rather than Terence Young classics

    If that's true would he have taken the role?
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    @wsd77, absolutely agree. I honestly don't think he liked the man Fleming created. I think he studied the books, and decided that the character was unlikable. If I remember correctly, he may've called Bond a bastard in one of his interviews.

    And Bond can be a bastard, but he is a likeable, honorable character with a very strong moral compass-- and doesn't feel guilty about his morality.
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    edited November 2016 Posts: 13,978
    Are there any interviews that can be posted as an example. While I know that the working relationship between Dalton and Glen became strained during LTK, I can't say that I have detected any drop off in enthusiasm from Dalton, in any of the interviews that I have seen him in.
  • edited November 2016 Posts: 11,189
    I think Fleming himself was once quoted as saying that he never intended Bond to be a likeable character. From that point of view, I can see what Dalton was going for in trying to make him less glamorous and rougher around the edges.

    Where I don't agree with Dalton is when he said that "Bond was as bad as they (the villains) were".

    Bond does have a conscious and is never depicted as mad or psychopathic.

    I do feel for Dalton in the sense that he never really got to work with a director who saw eye-to-eye with him. I think Glen was still partly in Moore-mode when making both TLD and LTK and (possibly) missed Moore's more light-hearted personality onset.
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    Are there any interviews that can be posted as an example. While I know that the working relationship between Dalton and Glen became strained during LTK, I can't say that I have detected any drop off in enthusiasm from Dalton, in any of the interviews that I have seen him in.

    There are no examples. I have read and seen it all.
    And there is no evidence whatsoever in the films that he was uncomfortable in the role.
    That's rubbish.

    He is highly professional and always gives 100% of him into any role.

    Some people just don't get good acting and think what Craig delivers is as good as Connery even, that says it all.
  • Posts: 11,425
    tanaka123 wrote: »
    Getafix wrote: »
    Dalton didn't appreciate his good fortune IMO. I think he has inner demons. He was forty, had pretensions to being a great actor and was probably having trouble resigning himself to being in John Glen directed Bond films, rather than Terence Young classics

    If that's true would he have taken the role?

    Well he resisted taking it for twenty years...
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,713
    1423503682_james_bond_timothy_dalton_deal_with_it.gif
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
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