Would Goldeneye have been a success with Dalton?

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  • edited January 2017 Posts: 11,189
    acoppola wrote: »
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    I'm being honest, I think the more casual look Dalton has when wearing a suit (at least in TLD) gives him a slight "teacher" look.

    Connery pulls off the suit best.

    Better than the Craig the plumber in a suit!

    I'm not sure. Definitely not in CR (his attaire as he is walking up the steps at the end after shooting Mr White is great) but possibly in his later films. I do agree incidentally that Craig has a slight blue-collar manner about him (it's one of the reasons I've felt unsure about the idea of Sean Bean as Bond), but I suppose the same could be said for Mr Connery.


  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited January 2017 Posts: 23,883
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    acoppola wrote: »
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    I'm being honest, I think the more casual look Dalton has when wearing a suit (at least in TLD) gives him a slight "teacher" look.

    Connery pulls off the suit best.

    Better than the Craig the plumber in a suit!

    I'm not sure. Definitely not in CR (his attaire as he is walking up the steps at the end after shooting Mr White is great) but possibly in his later films. I do agree incidentally that Craig has a slight blue-collar manner about him (it's one of the reasons I've felt unsure about the idea of Sean Bean as Bond), but I suppose the same could be said for Mr Connery.
    @BAIN123, just speaking for myself, I think there's a big difference between Connery and Craig in terms of their elegance & classiness on film. Even though Connery certainly had that 'working class' vibe, he also projected a considerable amount of natural style as Bond. It could have been his frame, or the way he walked, or his natural confidence with the ladies. I don't quite get the same feel from Craig, but he is 'adequate' and believable enough.
  • acoppolaacoppola London Ealing not far from where Bob Simmons lived
    Posts: 1,243
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    acoppola wrote: »
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    I'm being honest, I think the more casual look Dalton has when wearing a suit (at least in TLD) gives him a slight "teacher" look.

    Connery pulls off the suit best.

    Better than the Craig the plumber in a suit!

    I'm not sure. Definitely not in CR but possibly in his later films. I do agree incidentally that Craig has a slight blue-collar manner about him (it's one of the reasons I've felt unsure about the idea of Sean Bean as Bond), but I suppose the same could be said for Mr Connery.

    Connery had a sharp and sophisticated look. I never thought about his social class background. Though I know that was a huge factor in the 1960's and Broccoli mentions it in his book When The Snow Melts. But by the time I was growing up, that was a non-issue.

  • Posts: 11,189
    bondjames wrote: »
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    acoppola wrote: »
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    I'm being honest, I think the more casual look Dalton has when wearing a suit (at least in TLD) gives him a slight "teacher" look.

    Connery pulls off the suit best.

    Better than the Craig the plumber in a suit!

    I'm not sure. Definitely not in CR (his attaire as he is walking up the steps at the end after shooting Mr White is great) but possibly in his later films. I do agree incidentally that Craig has a slight blue-collar manner about him (it's one of the reasons I've felt unsure about the idea of Sean Bean as Bond), but I suppose the same could be said for Mr Connery.
    @BAIN123, just speaking for myself, I think there's a big difference between Connery and Craig in terms of their elegance & classiness on film. Even though Connery certainly had that 'working class' vibe, he also projected a considerable amount of natural style. It could have been his frame, or the way he walked, or his natural confidence with the ladies. I don't quite get the same feel from Craig, but he is 'adequate' and believable enough.

    Definitely his height gave him an advantage and we know how Terrance Young apparently schooled him on how to act sophisticated.
  • acoppolaacoppola London Ealing not far from where Bob Simmons lived
    edited January 2017 Posts: 1,243
    bondjames wrote: »
    acoppola wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    indeed the 80's have to be taken into account when clothing is concerned!
    The clothing in the late 80's efforts haven't dated well, it's true. A bit shabby.
    It just seems the "gritty realism" of the novels has been vastly overstated and taken as a blueprint.
    I agree. The switch from the Moore era may have been too much for people to fully embrace. It certainly was far less 'fantasy' than even the early Connery films, which had a lot more glamour & exoticism. Moreover, Dalton didn't quite have the flair of Moore, and that, in combination with the clothing, direction and settings, gave the films a pedestrian feel imho.

    They've done a much better job of combining grittiness with style during the Craig era, and that makes a lot of difference.

    I think that is being too general as regards the clothing of the Dalton era. When Dalton is first introduced to Moneypenny, he looks very elegant in the grey suit. I see nothing wrong with the suit he is wearing in M's office either after the incident in the safe house. Dalton's suits are far more like what Prince Charles would wear. But shabby they are not. And his tuxedos look perfectly fine and conforming to a more classic look.

    If Bond is defined by his clothes, than get a male model to play him. It is the psychology and quick thinking of the character that is part of his appeal too.

    Any casual clothes however, will date as fashions change. And that applies to any Bond film. What Craig wears in the opening of CR is hardly spectacular.

    With Craig, particularly in Spectre, I feel he looks over-pampered and like he went through huge effort to achieve that look which becomes uncool. Connery's suits look like he didn't think too much about it and therefore he comes off as cooler and less vain.

    The over-tight Tom Ford suits in Skyfall will date, and make Craig look shorter.
    All good points. I definitely notice a decline in sartorial style and elegance during the Dalton era, but there are exceptions, and you've pointed them out (he does look very good and well tailored when he meets MP & in the Bratislava opening scenes). It's later in the film where I notice a precipitous decline however.

    I agree on Craig as well. 'Over-pampered' is indeed a good way to describe his look in SP.

    With regards to casual clothes, I think it's a fine line. Sure, some items will date as they are more 'of the moment' (Moore's safari suits for example) but I still believe that clothes must fit properly and that irrespective of fashion of the day, one can still look stylish. I think Moore pulled it off nicely despite some questionable fashion choices. I still contend that Dalton looked too 'plain and average' (for lack of better words) in most of his casual gear, and I would have preferred a nice polo (I'm glad Craig has brought that back). It could have been the casual jackets he wore that gave me this impression...not sure.

    I have to agree on the casual side sir! And Bond in casual has never been a highlight for me. I think that some of the casual clothes they gave Dalton were poorly thought out. But, for the time, they were fashionable. The 1980's was the era of the over-sized and baggy casual look.

    Did you see the Dalton interview on The Living Daylights Blu Ray "Dalton On Acting?". He wears a shirt with a blue woollen v-neck jumper. That smart casual looks far better for him and has not dated. Is it me, or does he sound like Prince Charles? Super elegant and powerful!



  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    Comparing Craig to Connery will lead nowhere good for Craig.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    acoppola wrote: »
    Did you see the Dalton interview on The Living Daylights Blu Ray "Dalton On Acting?". He wears a shirt with a blue woollen v-neck jumper. That smart casual looks far better for him and has not dated. Is it me, or does he sound like Prince Charles? Super elegant and powerful!
    No, unfortunately I haven't seen any of the extras. I may watch the film soon and will look out for it. Dalton has a strong voice, no doubt. Assertive and commanding.
  • acoppolaacoppola London Ealing not far from where Bob Simmons lived
    edited January 2017 Posts: 1,243
    bondjames wrote: »
    acoppola wrote: »
    Did you see the Dalton interview on The Living Daylights Blu Ray "Dalton On Acting?". He wears a shirt with a blue woollen v-neck jumper. That smart casual looks far better for him and has not dated. Is it me, or does he sound like Prince Charles? Super elegant and powerful!
    No, unfortunately I haven't seen any of the extras. I may watch the film soon and will look out for it. Dalton has a strong voice, no doubt. Assertive and commanding.

    Please have a watch BondJames. He is so elegant and comes across like British Royalty. My wife is very impressed by his command of the English language, as she is studying English and appreciates it all the more. Superb voice projection and he talks about Fleming, as well as Connery being "Too good!" to take over from after Diamonds.

    One thing I love about Dalton, is his knowledge of his subject. He talks specifically as opposed to generalisations. Broccoli mentions that in his book too!

  • Posts: 11,189
    Dalton's more detailed comments generally impressed me too. My contrast I've noticed more and more as I've got older how vague and unspecific Brosnan tended to be when talking about Bond.
  • acoppolaacoppola London Ealing not far from where Bob Simmons lived
    edited January 2017 Posts: 1,243
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    Dalton's more detailed comments generally impressed me too. My contrast I've noticed more and more as I've got older how vague and unspecific Brosnan tended to be when talking about Bond.

    That is true. I felt Brosnan just reiterated what was common public knowledge and nothing new or insightful. Roses are red and violets are blue level!

    I find Craig quite bland too. He says such stupid things, that make him sound over-entitled. Connery said controversial things, but they were very eloquently presented and well-thought out!

    I think Connery, Moore and Dalton were bloody interesting in interviews. And there was a great interview with Lazenby on a BBC archive where he was talking about the counter-culture of the hippy movement.

  • Posts: 11,189
    I know i have mixed feelings on Dalton as Bond but ive always admired how dedicated he seemed to be to the role.
  • Posts: 19,339
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    I know i have mixed feelings on Dalton as Bond but ive always admired how dedicated he seemed to be to the role.

    True,i did like the commitment he gave the role and his knowledge about it,especially the books,but I think he put too much pressure on himself and 'over-thought' the role rather than just 'being' his version of Bond.

  • acoppolaacoppola London Ealing not far from where Bob Simmons lived
    edited January 2017 Posts: 1,243
    barryt007 wrote: »
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    I know i have mixed feelings on Dalton as Bond but ive always admired how dedicated he seemed to be to the role.

    True,i did like the commitment he gave the role and his knowledge about it,especially the books,but I think he put too much pressure on himself and 'over-thought' the role rather than just 'being' his version of Bond.

    Dalton knew how he wanted to play Bond, but not everyone was on the same page in terms of members of the production team, and compromises had to be made. Dalton said, just like the public, everyone has their own unique idea of who James Bond should be. Dalton if anything, was his own version of Bond. He was a departure from 25 years of history and he took a kicking for it!

    The Craig era benefited from huge world events transforming our lives overnight like 9/11. That made it easier to define a more serious direction and the easy going happy playboy would come across as so out of touch. Die Another Day should have been delayed and re-written after the events of 9/11. But EON continued because they thought there would be no backlash based on the popularity of Brosnan.

    Dalton was ahead of his time, and wanted a hard edge in a decade when partying was more important. With ISIS now a huge threat, we will see huge future transformations when the sh*t hits the fan!

  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,108
    acoppola wrote: »
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »

    They've done a much better job of combining grittiness with style during the Craig era, and that makes a lot of difference.

    I don't agree. Bond has never been more of a brute than in the last two films. He looks like a soldier in a tux.

    I have to agree. I see more of a thug in Craig, which is not what Fleming intended. Bond is more than a muscle man who works out 6 days a week!

    I have to agree with you there too. I think he was fine in CR and QOS but Sam Mendes really made him into a thug out of his depth.

    It's like that guy in your class who goes to the fitness place every day of the weak but fails his French test and doesn't know his table manners.

    Or that working class bloke who suddenly makes money by a stroke of luck and then goes out and buys an orange Lamborghini.
  • acoppolaacoppola London Ealing not far from where Bob Simmons lived
    edited January 2017 Posts: 1,243
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    acoppola wrote: »
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »

    They've done a much better job of combining grittiness with style during the Craig era, and that makes a lot of difference.

    I don't agree. Bond has never been more of a brute than in the last two films. He looks like a soldier in a tux.

    I have to agree. I see more of a thug in Craig, which is not what Fleming intended. Bond is more than a muscle man who works out 6 days a week!

    I have to agree with you there too. I think he was fine in CR and QOS but Sam Mendes really made him into a thug out of his depth.

    It's like that guy in your class who goes to the fitness place every day of the weak but fails his French test and doesn't know his table manners.

    Or that working class bloke who suddenly makes money by a stroke of luck and then goes out and buys an orange Lamborghini.

    If Cubby Broccoli was alive, there would be no Daniel Craig. He vetoed the casting of Sam Neill, when Barbara Broccoli, Michael Wilson and John Glen wanted him. That right there tells you a lot. Craig is more The Terminator than Bond.

    Cubby would cast an actor that encompassed the tall, dark and handsome archetype. Fleming created a character that could go anywhere and fit in. Roger Moore was not dark featured, but certainly classically handsome.

  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    If he was English rather than Danish, and about a decade younger, Mads Mikkelsen would have made a good Bond. I've felt that way since I first saw him in CR. He has an interesting look and stature.
  • edited January 2017 Posts: 19,339
    As were Brosnan and Dalton,they did fit the Bond 'image'...
  • acoppolaacoppola London Ealing not far from where Bob Simmons lived
    Posts: 1,243
    bondjames wrote: »
    If he was English rather than Danish, and about a decade younger, Mads Mikkelsen would have made a good Bond. I've felt that way since I first saw him in CR. He has an interesting look and stature.

    Have you seen the film Carnage with Christoph Waltz, which was directed by Roman Polanski? Waltz is superb and when I was watching him, I thought he could give a good shot at Bond. His personality and acting are fantastic!

    Mads Mikkelsen reminded me of Marilyn Manson without make up in CR. But, he is interesting and perhaps I have to think about that one. He has an intimidating presence as an actor. hence why he plays villains like Hannibal.

  • acoppolaacoppola London Ealing not far from where Bob Simmons lived
    Posts: 1,243
    barryt007 wrote: »
    As were Brosnan and Dalton,they did fit the Bond 'image'...

    Both were byronic as in tall, dark and handsome. Brosnan was more polished looking, whilst Dalton was rugged, and had a certain rough quality like Connery, though his own style. Brosnan in The Fourth Protocol was excellent and easy to see why they wanted him.

  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    acoppola wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    If he was English rather than Danish, and about a decade younger, Mads Mikkelsen would have made a good Bond. I've felt that way since I first saw him in CR. He has an interesting look and stature.

    Have you seen the film Carnage with Christoph Waltz, which was directed by Roman Polanski? Waltz is superb and when I was watching him, I thought he could give a good shot at Bond. His personality and acting are fantastic!

    Mads Mikkelsen reminded me of Marilyn Manson without make up in CR. But, he is interesting and perhaps I have to think about that one. He has an intimidating presence as an actor. hence why he plays villains like Hannibal.
    I haven't seen Carnage, @acoppola. The issue with Waltz in my mind is his height. I think he's even shorter than Craig. There's no doubt that he's an excellent actor though.

    I realize Mads is not a traditional choice and would never have been cast due to his accent and his heritage. I'm more referring to his look. A bit cruel as you note with a distinctive look and mouth. Not 'pretty boy' handsome but I would think intriguingly attractive to the opposite sex. He has a certain charm, charisma and natural screen appeal which he showcased in Hannibal, and of course in CR.
  • acoppolaacoppola London Ealing not far from where Bob Simmons lived
    Posts: 1,243
    bondjames wrote: »
    acoppola wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    If he was English rather than Danish, and about a decade younger, Mads Mikkelsen would have made a good Bond. I've felt that way since I first saw him in CR. He has an interesting look and stature.

    Have you seen the film Carnage with Christoph Waltz, which was directed by Roman Polanski? Waltz is superb and when I was watching him, I thought he could give a good shot at Bond. His personality and acting are fantastic!

    Mads Mikkelsen reminded me of Marilyn Manson without make up in CR. But, he is interesting and perhaps I have to think about that one. He has an intimidating presence as an actor. hence why he plays villains like Hannibal.
    I haven't seen Carnage, @acoppola. The issue with Waltz in my mind is his height. I think he's even shorter than Craig. There's no doubt that he's an excellent actor though.

    I realize Mads is not a traditional choice and would never have been cast due to his accent and his heritage. I'm more referring to his look. A bit cruel as you note with a distinctive look and mouth. Not 'pretty boy' handsome but I would think intriguingly attractive to the opposite sex. He has a certain charm, charisma and natural screen appeal which he showcased in Hannibal, and of course in CR.

    Mads is very interesting and gives food for thought when on-screen. He is not predictable, and the type of actor I feel the series needs for future growth. Bond films tend to recycle too much from the past . Mads, I actually felt they under-used him in CR, because he was the best villain of the four Craig films. He scared me!

    But Waltz's strength of personality made me overlook his height. I feel they wasted his talent in Spectre. Made no sense how such an amazing actor was down-played.

    When you see Carnage, I think you will love it. Way more intelligent than the run of the mill safe cinema.

  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited January 2017 Posts: 23,883
    acoppola wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    acoppola wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    If he was English rather than Danish, and about a decade younger, Mads Mikkelsen would have made a good Bond. I've felt that way since I first saw him in CR. He has an interesting look and stature.

    Have you seen the film Carnage with Christoph Waltz, which was directed by Roman Polanski? Waltz is superb and when I was watching him, I thought he could give a good shot at Bond. His personality and acting are fantastic!

    Mads Mikkelsen reminded me of Marilyn Manson without make up in CR. But, he is interesting and perhaps I have to think about that one. He has an intimidating presence as an actor. hence why he plays villains like Hannibal.
    I haven't seen Carnage, @acoppola. The issue with Waltz in my mind is his height. I think he's even shorter than Craig. There's no doubt that he's an excellent actor though.

    I realize Mads is not a traditional choice and would never have been cast due to his accent and his heritage. I'm more referring to his look. A bit cruel as you note with a distinctive look and mouth. Not 'pretty boy' handsome but I would think intriguingly attractive to the opposite sex. He has a certain charm, charisma and natural screen appeal which he showcased in Hannibal, and of course in CR.

    Mads is very interesting and gives food for thought when on-screen. He is not predictable, and the type of actor I feel the series needs for future growth. Bond films tend to recycle too much from the past . Mads, I actually felt they under-used him in CR, because he was the best villain of the four Craig films. He scared me!

    But Waltz's strength of personality made me overlook his height. I feel they wasted his talent in Spectre. Made no sense how such an amazing actor was down-played.

    When you see Carnage, I think you will love it. Way more intelligent than the run of the mill safe cinema.
    I agree on all your points and will seek out Carnage. I suspect EON are aware of their misuse of Waltz, and he has also gone on record saying he wishes that he'd done a better job with Blofeld. So if Craig decides to return once more, they will likely bring him back to redeem himself.
  • Posts: 19,339
    Carnage is a brilliant film,with just a 4 actor cast (but what great 4 actors they are !!)...this is one of Polanksi's best films,alongside Frantic.
  • acoppolaacoppola London Ealing not far from where Bob Simmons lived
    Posts: 1,243
    @barryt007 and @Bondjames Thanks!!!
  • Posts: 15,106
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    Dalton's more detailed comments generally impressed me too. My contrast I've noticed more and more as I've got older how vague and unspecific Brosnan tended to be when talking about Bond.

    One of my big issues with Brosnan. He always knew the icon more than the character and was more comfortable playing the icon. Sometimes I feel like he was basically being a portrait of Bond.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Yes, he was like a kid playing cowboys and indians or cops and robbers.
  • Posts: 11,189
    I think Brosnan liked the fame and fortune Bond gave him much more than the character of Bond himself.
  • Posts: 11,425
    Brosnan never had a clear idea of what he wanted to do with the part. I don't think he actually approaches roles in that way. He's just a sort of 'feel your way' actor. But his instincts are patchy at best.
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    Brosnan's heart was more in it, than Craig's ever will be. Brosnan appreciated what he had. I wish that could be said of Craig as well.
  • edited January 2017 Posts: 11,425
    But Craig is a better Bond. Not as good as some make out, but definitely better than Brozza.

    I agree that Brozza loved being Bond and that was always nice to see. In general I rather like Pierce. Just can't stand him as Bond.
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