Would Goldeneye have been a success with Dalton?

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  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    I agree @Getafix
  • Posts: 11,425
    When the dust has settled, LTK and QOS are the films people will return to.

  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    Getafix wrote: »
    When the dust has settled, LTK and QOS are the films people will return to.

    They are already. At least the reasonable people :P
  • Posts: 19,339
    @getafix and Jason....these are totally films i return to ....spot on chaps.
  • Posts: 19,339
    Physique-wise i would say Brosnan.
  • Posts: 16,149
    I pictured Fleming's Bond more or less having Brosnan's physique in TND. Or possibly even like David Niven as he appeared in the 1940's :The Bishop's Wife and so forth.
  • Posts: 19,339
    Agreed...Brosnan's physique is the most accurate to the literary Fleming Bond IMO.
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    I think the younger audience (in general, not here) thinks Bond must be some kind of pumped up muscular stud.

    That image of Craig in CR on the beach, as bloody freaking hot as it is, was A HUGE MISTAKE.

    Like a commercial suggesting, hey you must have muscles to get the ladies.

    But who am I to say a thing like this, I'm the same, I put to much importance on my body. I'm spoiled :P
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    edited January 2017 Posts: 9,020
    I have to disagree on something @Birdleson

    The One Man vs an Army wasn't invented in the 90s with Brosnan.

    It was almost 10 years earlier in TLD where Daltonbond goes against the army on the air field, machine gun toting.
  • Posts: 1,680
    The machine gun sequence when Bond escapes Ouromovs interrogation in GE is somewhat believable, Bond got the jump on the Russians & killed them in the confusion.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    I personally seem to recall it becoming somewhat offensive in TND for some reason, and I can't remember when (it might have been on the Stealth boat). I didn't have a problem with any of the machine gunning in GE personally.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    I think it's the Stealth Boat scene some have a problem with as he's got an MP5 in one hand and a P99 in the other. While I do admit, it's not the most Bond like but I do enjoy that scene. The music rocked.
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    Of course I don't have a problem with it either. It was a sign of the times, this kind of action was used a lot in action films in the second half of the 80s.

    There is no use in pretending, Bond has stayed in the 60s.

    I wouldn't mind Bond using an iPad either. Blofeld did which I found cool. After all, that's realistic.
    Is it Fleming Bond, certainly not, but it doesn't have to be. It's cinematic Bond.

    And you can have all the machine gun-toting scenes you want in TND or elsewhere, it still will be 10 times more Bondian than anything that got us dished up in the reboot nonsense era pre-SP.
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    edited January 2017 Posts: 9,020
    Brosnanbond in general and especially TND is as cinematic Bond as it gets. It's formulaic yes, but in my book that's not a bad thing.

    Craigbond never really hit it right until SP. Yes, CR is a classic and undeniably one of the best, worthy of a Top 10 spot easily.
    But that's mainly because Campbell created a perfect storm of cast performances, direction and style in general, locations and sets are wonderful.
    CR without the casino sequences and the torture scene would not have much left that "intentionally" went back to Fleming.

    QOS is even not worth mentioning in that context. I love that film, don't get me wrong, but it has little to do with Bond compared everything that came before.

    I'm no expert at the books though, that's for sure.

  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    edited January 2017 Posts: 5,131
    Fleming's Bond is quite old fashioned in his attitude in general.

    The Craig era is much more Flemingesque than the Brosnan era (tone, characterization etc), no question.

    I am an expert with regards to the books (as well as the films).
  • edited January 2017 Posts: 4,603
    I always interpreted Bond's licence as the ability to make targeted, precise decisions based on his orders and the context of the situation. The Die Hard era of the 80s did have many many heros spraying their machine guns all over the place in an orgy of action. Dont get me wrong, I love these type of movies but IMHO, whenever I see Bond with a machine gun, it does not sit 100% correctly within the Bond World. Just not precise enough (even the ending of CR looks a little "common" to me.) but perhaps he should have some slack if the situation restricts his weapon of choice? (SF climax a good example)
    PS there is also something "unEnglish" about a machine gun if that makes sense, not really "fair play" ?
    PPS when did we first see Bond on the big screen use a machine gun?
  • Posts: 11,189
    I think it might have been Laz during the Piz Gloria raid.
  • edited January 2017 Posts: 4,603
    Yes, thats sound right,
  • Posts: 7,653
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    I think it might have been Laz during the Piz Gloria raid.

    And he made it look really cool while sliding over that ice on his belly while firing, nobody ever complained about that.

    As for Craig more Bondian or Flemingesque, he is far more James Cameronesque as he is witout any doubt the only Terminator among the james Bond, getting shot falling of a terminal height of a train and without any background check is back working for MI6. Just like they knew; He'll be back and in SP he got to the Chopper.

    Anything about Brosnan is a complained and generally full of the stuff the grass grows greener of. There can be complains about any performer even if they are generally taste driven and period driven. But I must say that I prefer a Terminator movie over a Graig version because Schwarzenegger is still the original.

  • Posts: 15,106
    Yet I feel far more the danger during the Craig era than the Brosnan one. When he bleeds or gets hurt, well, he does seem to be hurt. Brosnan gets his pain face, but then a few moments after it looks like nothing happened. He spends months in a North Korean jail, he is our and he is fine, he even has a beer gut! And it is also true of his emotional state. Craig Bond suffers psychologically (Vesper's betrayal, M's loss, etc.). Brosnan Bond is all smiles and laughter minutes after Paris Carver dies by playing with a remote control car.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,960
    @SaintMark, Lazenby is the definition of cool with that machine gun during the Piz Gloria raid. His casual execution of Braun ("Guns make me nervous!") after Bond rescues Tracy is excellent.
  • Posts: 7,653
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Yet I feel far more the danger during the Craig era than the Brosnan one. When he bleeds or gets hurt, well, he does seem to be hurt. Brosnan gets his pain face, but then a few moments after it looks like nothing happened. He spends months in a North Korean jail, he is our and he is fine, he even has a beer gut! And it is also true of his emotional state. Craig Bond suffers psychologically (Vesper's betrayal, M's loss, etc.). Brosnan Bond is all smiles and laughter minutes after Paris Carver dies by playing with a remote control car.

    Yet I never feel any pain with Craig, he is like a frigging terminator and he does not give up so his so-called emotions are never really felt or there. In that sense I do not feel the danger at all and with SP we got an agent who at no point felt being in danger. Heck even Lazenby shows more emotion in his one movie. And Brosnan showed more emotion and vulnerability in his 4 movies. Than Craig did with QoB, SF or SP. essentialy a promise that went way wrong after the powerhouse that was CR.

    Brosnan will be remembered as the one who return the franchise after a leave of absence and did so very well and then was chucked out. Craig as the one who started great and then went arty farty with two directors that were full of pretense and no real idea what to do with the franchise or even film a half decent story. Another Mendes-Craig movie would leave me waiting for the next installment wit ha new 007 as I am done with crap that Mendes and EON keeps serving.

    Another November man would draw me straight back to the cinema. Unless Mendes would direct it.

  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited January 2017 Posts: 23,883
    SaintMark wrote: »
    Brosnan will be remembered as the one who return the franchise after a leave of absence and did so very well and then was chucked out. Craig as the one who started great and then went arty farty with two directors that were full of pretense and no real idea what to do with the franchise or even film a half decent story. Another Mendes-Craig movie would leave me waiting for the next installment wit ha new 007 as I am done with crap that Mendes and EON keeps serving.

    Another November man would draw me straight back to the cinema. Unless Mendes would direct it.
    Are you speaking about yourself or how you think the Craig era will be remembered after it is over by the public at large?

    I really don't think most people would think that the Craig era started great and then declined precipitously after that. SF's phenomenal critical and commercial global success (it very well could have been the #1 film globally in 2012 if one measures it on a ticket sales basis, given that Avengers was in more expensive 3D) guarantees that. If Craig leaves after SP I believe there will be a somewhat sour taste in some people's mouth (certainly mine), but it will be no worse than Connery after DAF, Moore after AVTAK, Dalton after LTK (at least from a commercial success point of view) or Brosnan after DAD.

    I think Craig and his reboot era will have a rich place in the Bond history books, if for no other reason that it restored some seriousness, dramatic heft and credibility to the franchise. Whether it will be looked at with the same esteem that it seems to get these days is another question.
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    In the long run SF will only be a remembrance of the 50th Anniversary where everything came together nicely in a perfect storm with a really mediocre film.

    CR on the other hand is Craig's GoldenEye, nobody seriously can claim it's not his best by a large margin overall.

    The only thing going for SF was the huge monetary success, but let's be honest, had Spectre be in its place or Casino Royale for that matter the billion would have materialised as well.

    SF is already the one Bond film that lives almost only from romantic glorified memories of the 50th, Olympic Games, patriotism and such. Bringing back the DB5 and the images in Scotland are what appealed to the older generations to make it go and see. The younger generations went because it was an EVENT film. It's that simple.

    In 10 years tops that will become clear to the even most die-hard SF fans. That I'm sure of.
    I know it's hard to take for many, but the Craig era isn't any different to the Brosnan era. I can be if there is a fifth that would be another CR. But I highly doubt that.
  • Posts: 1,680
    If Spectre is Craigs last film, he goes down as having the best final entry of the series.
  • Posts: 16,149
    As much as I like SPECTRE, I'd probably put OHMSS as the best final entry of the series.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    Here's mine:

    1. OHMSS
    2. LTK
    3. DAF
    4. SP
    5. AVTAK
    6. DAD
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited January 2017 Posts: 23,883
    @Birdleson, I rank AVTAK very low (just above DAD & TWINE). It's the only Moore outing I dread watching actually. I know there are members who enjoy it, but I find it a bit tired and a retread of OP/GF, despite a great performance from Walken. It's all very pedestrian to me.

    I'll never really like SP, but respect the money up on screen and the cinematography (bar the filter), which is top notch. There are a few outstanding scenes as well (PTS before the helicopter, White, & the Hinx fight).
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    edited January 2017 Posts: 9,020
    Easy as pie

    OHMSS
    LTK
    SP
    DAD
    DAF
    AVTAK

    and here my favourite first two:
    1 TLD-LTK
    2 GE-TND
    3 DN-FRWL
    4 CR-QOS
    5 LALD-TMWTGG
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 8,195
    In short, I think he would have done a great job, but as much as I like Dalton as Bond, I don't know if he the intangible that Brosnan had that helped the series alive.
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