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CR is all about Craig though. Without him it could very easily have been a dud. Not even the Fleming material could have saved it with Cavill in the lead.
It didn't hurt that they had a very good script to work with, which benefited from a Haggis dialogue polish.
Most of all though, Campbell provided superior direction, as he did for GE. The man just gets Bond & gets the most out of the respective actor playing the part while helping him to subtly capture the essential attributes of the character.
At least the immature depiction of Bond would have been believable with a younger Bond. Even after seeing The Man From U.N.C.L.E, I am still not sold on Cavil. Just like Brosnan is a younger Moore, I see Cavil as a younger Brosnan.
Going back to a post by @Getafix on the previous page, what if MGW took on full writing duties for Bond #17? Who would sit in the directors chair is another question. Glen is in my top 3 Bond directors, but 5 consecutive films was enough. Bond #17 was time for a new director. Assuming that Cubby would still have been a producer, what if he had picked someone from the Bond team.
I'd add to this that Dalton and Glen had bad chemistry and it did hurt to a degree the films.
In what way? As i said before, read John Glens book 'For My Eyes Only'. Glen states they had discussions/clashes about how Dalton played the role, but i still think they had respect for each other, Glen in that he admired Dalton for going to the books for his inspiration, Dalton in his quote for his admiration of Glen for "his visual clarity" as a Director! My own take on it is that it was more on Glens side as he got on so well with Moore that he was a bit nervous at breaking in a new Bond. (He states in his book he was relieved Moore agreed to do FYEO as he didnt want to blood a new actor!)
I can believe though that Fleming would have liked Moore as a Bond "type". I said in another thread that Moore is the only actor of the 6 to really play "Commander" Bond.
Moore is a bit iffy--Broccoli claimed Fleming had seen Moore in the Saint and wanted him for Bond, but the Saint didn't air until after Dr. No had been filmed.
For what it's worth, Fleming's first recorded choice for Bond was Richard Burton--a theatrically-trained Welsh actor like Dalton.
Re Dalton, i do think that Fleming would have appreciated the more serious edge that Dalton brought back to the character.
But, not every movie starring the Big 4 was a runaway success; Tequila Sunrise also performed badly, as did Tango & Cash, and Lock Up, plus Red Heat, and Bruce's successful transition from TV to the big screen was soon cast in doubt after the Bonfire of the Vanities, Hudson Hawk and the Last Boy Scout. Previously, Die Hard had a lot going for it and had a villain that bested Bond's most recent villains in the form of Alan Rickman, who was getting great press coverage for his portrayal. In the right movie, both Mel, Sly and Willis were successful, despite Arnie having a surprise hit with Twins, even he couldn't sustain his lightning in a bottle with more comedy roles - I smartly avoided Kindergarten Cop as a manipulative piece of trash. The late 80s and 90s became a period where hotshot producers felt they could manipulate the markets and audiences. It would usher in a rapid decline for the big action movie just as soon as it had begun. I feel LTK is sort of mixed up in all that decline of the action movie chaos. It's also an odd Bond movie; for the first time it gets an adult certificate but it's the villains that we get to see being badass, not so much Bond. I think adding humor to the movie felt at odds with its adult themes. Sadly, the part where Bond ignites Sanchez with his lighter was heavily cut at the time, which would have been the only true instance in the movie where Bond gets truly violent, the killing of the DEA agent aside. I didn't care much for the title song or music either.
Fascinating insights into TLD's reception in London. Even though I was just a kid I do remember it having excellent marketing and (it seemed to me) a very warm UK reception. I think there was a lot of goodwill and enthusiasm for Dalton in the UK after TLD. For the younger generation some of that was lost when they were excluded from seeing LTK - I remember being totally gutted that LTK was a 15! I can't remember when I was first saw LTK but it would have been on TV several years later. I agree that making a film that excluded kids was a mistake.
I have a feeling this was before the UK introduced the 12 cert though.
PS. You know how we've discussed the what ifs, but I only discovered recently that the original LTK story was intended to be shot in China and would have featured a chase sequence along the Great Wall, as well as a fight scene amongst the Terracotta Army. Wilson also wrote two plot outlines about a drug lord in the Golden Triangle before the plans fell through due to the popularity of The Last Emporer having beaten the production into being the first westerners to film in China. I think if they'd stuck with China, then LTK could've been a much bigger and widely watched movie than crumby old Mexico.
LTK sets were of course also not shot at Pinewood due to (I think) some rather unfavourable tax changes introduced to the UK around that time.
It definitely suffered on the production front. Having said that, LTK still features some of the best action in the series!
China would have been good.
A bit hazardous to make the dead talk. I think Dalton tried hard and very seriously but the scripts let him down and he was fighting a ghost at the same time. A ghost of tomorrow no less.
The very same masses who enjoy the uber talented dynasty we know as the Kardashians. If he is forgotten among the masses, that is their loss.
Oh, you're just torturing me now. *goes off to check eBay*
Having said that, the numbers don't lie. His was far and away the weakest debut of any Bond actor in inflation adjusted terms (doing worse than OP and even worse than AVTAK in US inflation adjusted terms. His two films are the weakest performers stateside). The points I noted earlier likely were possibly to blame, including changing tastes and the more Fleming and less cinematic approach (less babes, less charismatic villain etc.). As a kid living in Harrow at the time I can vaguely remember his introduction and the resulting hoopla on various news outlets. I certainly recall my parents discussing him. I was not aware that LTK had a more adult certification rating - that certainly would have impacted things. Still, I recall the discussion being all about Batman in the summer of 1989. The Bat symbol was inside every tube station.
I am including some (unadjusted for inflation) box office data that I was able to locate on a site called 25thframe. What it suggests is that LTK did better than TLD in the UK, and that AVTAK surpassed TLD in the UK as well. This squares with IMDb data as well. I can imagine that 1989 was a bumper year for box office generally, given the massive firepower of the heavy hitters out that year (like 2015), and a rising tide lifted all boats.
AVTAK - £$8,082m (EDIT: see correction below)
TLD - £5,547m
LTK - £7,551m
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EDIT: When x-referencing the 25thframe data to IMDb, I noticed that It appears the 25thframe data for AVTAK mistakenly shows £ when it should be $. So the AVTAK UK gross is $8,082m and the equivalent TLD UK gross is $8,161m. That's still hardly an improvement given Dalton was replacing an aged Moore, and actually once adjusting for 2 years worth of ticket price inflation, it's still less.
I only can find the £ gross for LTK at £7,551m, which is still quite a bit higher than both when converted into $.
So I think he was fighting an uphill battle. However, I think he was also just not as big of a cinematic draw. Screen charisma was not his strong suit; that was Shakespearean theatrics. Dalton could absolutely nail the spirit of Fleming's Bond, but he was uninterested in/unable to capture the cinematic Bond. His interpretation didn't resonate soundly with audiences who had been used to corny jokes and Bond tropes since 1971 (yes, even before Moore) and it didn't help that they had been watching established actors for all that time as well. It's a bit of homesickness, if you will.
All the same, I think he was just ahead of his time. Had he worked with something more groundbreaking like CR, he'd probably have won over more people. That reminds me of something I read relating to The Living Daylights and how it was a good movie but "nobody left the cinema shaken or stirred". It just wasn't big enough. LTK, of course, was completely lost in the summer blockbuster madness of 1989.
Dalton was certainly dealt the most unfair hand of any of the Bonds thus far. Even Roger Moore required TSWLM to cement his status. If we had only LALD and TMWTGG to judge him by, he wouldn't receive anywhere near the acclaim that he does now, and I honestly think people would likely think less of him than Dalton today.
I very very much prefer him as Alec Leamas in the spy who came out of the cold.
I remember my dad used to bring home Variety every weekend throughout the 70s, which used to list all the BO takings, with an annual bumper edition that had the All Time US BO in order, top-to-bottom. Amazingly, I can still recall Gone With the Wind, The Sound of Music, Love Story, Patton, The Exorcist plus Tora Tora Tora nestling just below Jaws and The Sting. Some of that movie list hadn't changed that much in 20 years. Thunderball was in that Top 30 somewhere. Of course Variety newspaper was primarily just for the North American takings, but it was figures I felt I could trust. It seems anyone nowadays can misquote a BO figure and it becomes gospel. The reason why I mentioned Tora Tora Tora was that it was in the Top 10 list back in '75, but if you look at IMDb, it has The Exorcist on an incredibl high BO return and Tora on an incredibly low one (as if it flopped), but these were both in the Top 10 in the mid-Seventies BO charts. The mind boggles.
TLD didn't underperform in the UK, but it didn't blow the house down. It was on par (or slighly less, after inflation) in comparison to AVTAK. LTK did better in the UK (despite the age rating) but severely underperformed in the US market. The same goes for OHMSS.
I can imagine that there was a large marketing push in the UK to introduce a new Bond in 1987, including merchandising. That would have been as expected for the time.