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Endings - Downers or Uppers?
Based on the recent thread (Bond 24: Moonraker?), and specifically the idea that the ending of the Moonraker novel would fit an actor like Daniel Craig well, I started thinking about the following. For the first five novels, Fleming alternated the tone of the ending (get the girl, not get the girl), or in the case of From Russia With Love, the suggestion of actual death. It seems it went back and forth and the reader never knew what to expect.
Both of DC's film's so far have had downer endings you could say, and the overall belief is that Skyfall will sway the other way. But do you think downer endings should be incorportated more into the series, perhaps in an alternating fashion like the first five books? In other words, will we feel comfortable seeing our hero ride off into the sunset happily just as much as we will should the harsh realities of life hit him square in the face for the sake of drama, or pathos?
Where do you all stand on this?
Both of DC's film's so far have had downer endings you could say, and the overall belief is that Skyfall will sway the other way. But do you think downer endings should be incorportated more into the series, perhaps in an alternating fashion like the first five books? In other words, will we feel comfortable seeing our hero ride off into the sunset happily just as much as we will should the harsh realities of life hit him square in the face for the sake of drama, or pathos?
Where do you all stand on this?
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Comments
I give QoS bonus points for not ending on or near water.
LTK is an interesting one with a happy ending and both women surviving.
I enjoy several of the Moore era endings (TSWLM and FYEO in particular).
When I read the books, I remember thinking that FRWL had quite a compelling ending. I thought Dr. No, in the book, had a fun and really sexy ending.
Mainly, I want the ending to suit the story. I enjoy the upbeat ones more, but not at the sake of the story. I think Craig's Bond is due for a nice juicy get-the-girl positive ending. He's earned it, that's for sure.
so i am with you, if the ending fits the story, then go with it.
I'm with this'n. I love downer endings, for the most part. Usually, they're used to good effect (Attack of the Clones, Revenge of the Sith, for gamers like me out there, Syphon Filter: Logan's Shadow), but there are other downer endings that just suck.
A movie like CR or OHMSS shouldn't have a ending which is uplifting and happy because that would break the flow of the film imo.
It's rather like The Dark Knight getting a happy ending, it wouldn't work because most of the film is rather dark in terms of story. The reason why i dislike the ending of LTK is because of that. The film is dark and edgy but the ending is uplifting and happy and it shouldn't have been in terms of what just happened.
It depends on the tone of the film, basically. and besides, a dark ending always suites James Bond, it's the nature of his character (especially in the novels)
But i do love the happy endings also but only if a happy ending is 'plausable'
I think these are great points. I can't imagine GF or TSWLM without a happy ending. And in general, if a film basically ends with "We just saved the world," the films' tendency is to give Bond a moment to relax and enjoy the moment...I get it.
But something like, say, TWINE, could have benefited from a downer ending. He's just been played and had to kill Elektra (a Vesper/Tracy-like twist, except this time it's by Bond's own hand). This is the natural climax of the movie.
The Christmas character and ending just seems so superfluous and shoehorned in. She pretty much could have been excised (or her role reduced to a Fields' level minus, perhaps, her death). The last third of the movie would have been stronger without her.
TWINE would have been much better off with a sad ending rather than the traditional 'Bond gets the girl ending' A visit to Tracy's grave side or something like that.
I wouldn't pass up the ending of QoS for nothing. The best part of the film, and if we got the stupid White/Haines ending then the next film would have to explain the event or continue the Quantum arc. If it didn't and just erased memory of the event without even a mention that would be sloppy writing. It is much better to get one of the best Bond endings and now a fresh start in Skyfall completely free of the Quantum arc for now.
Agree. The last two scenes almost redeem the entire film.
I'd still keep them in their place.. just maybe after a 'James Bond will return' appearing on the screen, cut to the Haines/White scene, and then the credits roll.
Somewhere in Skyfall, Craig will ask M about the leads and she'll respond "Don't worry about that, we've got it covered. You need to find blahblah" and then continue the arc later.
I suppose with the loss of Tracy and Lynd in the franchise to date at the very end as the leading Bond girls, it could all well depend on who the girl is that bites the bullet at the very end, for example, suppose for arguments sake they had killed off Lois Chiles at the end of Moonraker or Roberts in AVTAK or Blackman in Goldfinger, that could of worked for me, ideally I would of liked at the very start for all involved, but point being if we do endure 'sad endings', hitherto in Bond, by way of losing a Bond girl, then it could very well depend on who made it through alive, I'm not saying there should be down beat endings for all films, 007 included but I sometimes prefer it that way, sometimes not, so a mixture of both is ideally what is needed
Yes! I really think that the FRWL ending was one of the biggest missed opportunities of the entire franchise. When I first read the book I had already seen the movie so I was shocked at how differently it ended. I mean Bond just blacking out like that and we're not even sure if he is dead or alive? Wow. Looking back at it now how cool would it be to have a unique ending like that instead of the standard Bond saves the day and gets the girl cliche? I think taking that away robs the story of something special. Fleming intended it to end this way.
I can understand why they chose to change it. When you are starting a new movie franchise you don't want to kill off the main star or even make people think he might be dead. Also maybe people wouldn't have been receptive to a downer ending in 1963. Imagine if OHMSS hadn't ended with Tracy's death. It completely changes the whole movie. I just think it would have been great to mix things up a bit. What do you guys think?
Dunno about Skyfall. I think I've blocked it from my mind lol
What really did it for me was his acceptance of the gift allotted to him in M's will and also how he embraces Mallory as the new head of MI6 after developing respect for him over the course of the film. The best scene is where Eve gives him the bulldog and says that maybe it was M's way of telling him to get a desk job, whereupon Bond says it is the opposite.
That's what is special about his relationship with M, better than all Bond/M relationships before it. Though he doesn't have the extensive files on her life that she does on him, he connects with her and is able to gain a friendship and respect for her even though she is his authority. She is the one that pulls for him when everyone else is pointing fingers and accusing him, and for that he has supreme loyalty to her, making them the perfect team. From her he grows from a reckless rookie to MI6's most competent and best agent, the go to man for any trouble, not only because she is confident in his ability to deliver, but because she knows she can trust him. With her gift to him in the form of a bulldog, she is telling him to remain stubborn, and to never give up no matter what faces him. Bond and the bulldog are the same in every conceivable way.
Do you all remember the scene with M where Bond comments that even after her office went up in smoke the bulldog still survived? The same is with Bond. Even when his world is crumbling around him, Bond too is the one that always survives to win the day. Though Eve sees the statue as M's missive to Bond to get out of the job, only he and he alone knows the true meaning of the gift, a hallmark of their special relationship together and the wonderful message of determination she passes on to him. Now, no matter what lays ahead for him both in the job and out of it over the course of his lifetime, no matter how much he doubts his abilities or resourcefulness, he can always look at that statue and say with confidence: "M would want me to push on."
If that isn't a happy ending, I don't know what is. I feel that at the end of Skyfall Bond is more enlightened and mature than we have ever seen him before in Dan's era.
LTK was certainly an upper, I really enjoyed it, it may have been the most up-beat positive ending of the series , it has that late 80's vibe and I love it!