A View to a Kill. Let's make it better!

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  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 8,217
    A 58 year old Rog or a young(ish) Dalton in bed with Grace Jones? Which do you prefer?! :D

    You're right, I forgot to include no Grace Jones ;)

  • Posts: 7,507
    Haha. You have to be able to take a joke, man ;)

    But on a serious note; no, I don't agree. The cast seems pretty mediocre to me except for Walken and and Macnee. As so many have suggested before, a new Bond and different Bond girls and henchmen could have helped the film considerably. In addition to several realterations of the plot and script of course... and different locations... better action scenes... better direction... It's hard to suggest anything very concrete without constructing a completely different film altogether... :p

    That's not to say I don't respect your opinion. :)>-
  • Posts: 1,548
    Get rid of Moore and Tanya Roberts for a start.
  • There's something to be said about aging action stars. Some actors have the reputation that lends plausibility to it.
    For example, I can watch Air Force One and totally believe Harrison Ford kicking all that Russian ass. Or 2008's Rambo where Stallone's age didn't even cross my mind as he slaughtered hundreds.
    Moore in AVTAK on the other hand? All I see is an old actor. A good one, make no mistake, but seeing him (or his stunt double) punching bad guys becomes entertaining for the wrong reasons- it's laughable.
    Back to what I was saying about the reputation though- Moore was never really all that big on the action scene. His best brawl was in that dressing room in TMWTGG, and Moore's best fight wasn't as good as Connery's worst! He runs funny too.
    You could have another tougher actor the same age in the role and it would be more believable. Connery for example, could have been in AVTAK and I would have believed it when he wailed on the guys at Zorin's warehouse, and at Stacy's place.

    So the issue isn't Moore's age. It's just Moore.

    I know it sounds like I'm being harsh on the guy but I really do like him. It's just that he did one too many, that's all. Octopussy would have been a great place to stop.
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 8,217
    jobo wrote: »
    Haha. You have to be able to take a joke, man ;)

    I do, hence the wink. ;)
  • MayDayDiVicenzoMayDayDiVicenzo Here and there
    Posts: 5,080
    talos7 wrote: »
    jobo wrote: »
    Haha. You have to be able to take a joke, man ;)

    I do, hence the wink. ;)

    I believe he was referring to me. Nonetheless, there was nothing in my comment to prompt that statement?
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    edited September 2014 Posts: 8,217
    talos7 wrote: »
    jobo wrote: »
    Haha. You have to be able to take a joke, man ;)

    I do, hence the wink. ;)

    I believe he was referring to me. Nonetheless, there was nothing in my comment to prompt that statement?

    Got it. Actually, if Dalton had taken over the role for AVTAK it would have taken on a somewhat more serious tone. If that was the case I would have cast the model Iman, David Bowie's wife, as Zorin's elegant, deadly assassin.
  • edited September 2014 Posts: 4,813
    We might have seen Dalton fight Dolph Lundgren!!
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 8,217
    We might have seen Dalton fight Dolph Lundgren!!

    THAT, would have been very cool.
  • Posts: 11,425
    Dalton in AVTAK could have worked quite nicely.

    I don't have a problem with Grace Jones. She's not a great actress (understatement), but henchmen/women don't always have to be. She brings an enjoyable element of crazy danger to the role. Not sure Iman would have had the same sense of menace, but she certainly would have looked good.
  • edited September 2014 Posts: 11,189
    What about the fact that she virtually rapes Roger Moore? Poor bloke. Even he is reluctant to talk about that.

  • Campbell2Campbell2 Epsilon Rho Rho house, Bending State University
    Posts: 299
    I'm afraid the biggest problem really is Sir Roger, he shouldn't have signed for this one. If Dalton had been Bond already there could have been a number of better fights in this, Bond vs. May Day, vs. Zorin. It could also have lost that fire truck scene.
  • Posts: 11,425
    Dear oh dear. Didn't T3 rip off that fire truck seen? Truly awful.

    Bond sleeps with May Day as a way to cover up for the fact he'd been out spying around the chateau and isn't in his own room when Zorin and May Day come looking for him. I like Rog's raised eyebrow as Jones launches is in for the snog - all too realistic!
  • edited September 2014 Posts: 11,189
    That fire engine scene is pretty dreadful I agree @Getafix...and yes Rog raises his eyebrows once AGAIN in a mocking fashion at the enemy. Only this time its boring.

    As awful as that chase is I don't think it's QUITE as embarrassing as Moore's fights with the goons in the warehouse or in Stacey's house:

    0.30 onwards:


    Rog has gone on record as saying View is his least favourite of the films he did. I'm not sure I agree completely but I can see where he's coming from.

    The thing that urks me about View is that it never once feels like the film-makers are trying something different. It feels like a film on autopilot a lot of the time. I remember when I last saw it the word that came to mind was bland. The main things going for it are the music and Christopher Walken. It just lacks energy and feels sleepy.
  • Campbell2Campbell2 Epsilon Rho Rho house, Bending State University
    Posts: 299
    Should have made better use of Paris, too. It's dreadful how the location is boiled down to the tour Eiffel and the chase effectively ends in the structure's shadow already.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited September 2014 Posts: 12,480
    Well, where to start ... Roger should have quit with Octopussy.

    But looking at AVTAK, I would definitely replace Grace Jones (with whom, I am unsure; but perhaps Angela Bassett) and Tanya Roberts.

    I would have simply switched Tanya with Fiona; Fiona and Roger had nice chemistry and that one change would have made for a better film.
  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    Posts: 14,588
    For me, this film is still in the bottom 5-10, but I've grown to like it more and more over the years.

    A few things I'd change:

    - get rid of the Beach Boys, or at least switch out California Girls for Surfin', because Bond does surf across water, and this scene has nothing to do with California and/or girls
    - actually make the Paris car chase believable
    - give Tibbet a bit more screen time
    - trim Roger's hair around the ears
    - make the warehouse fight a bit more brutal and fix the editing
    - get rid of the comedy cops
    - shorten the fire truck scene or make it an intense chase
    - outfit Zorin's blimp with an invisibility cloak so Stacey has a reason not to notice it creeping up behind her

    Not so much a change as an addition: I know most here frown upon Grace Jones, but I think she's a unique character, and I like a lot of her music, so perhaps feature one of her songs somewhere in the film or end credits.
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 8,217
    It's funny that you mention Rog's hair. I think he would have benefitted from better haircuts from "Spy" on
  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    Posts: 14,588
    I understand longer hair is supposed to make you look younger, but somehow it worked the opposite for Rog, and his hair just got longer and longer.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    I'd change Roger from getting that facelift. Didn't do him any favors sadly.
  • Posts: 11,189
    My current thoughts on making AVTAK better:

    -Get a different director!!!!!!
    -Keep Moore but put him to better use. The "Wine With Stacey" music is one of my favourite John Barry pieces. It has a very nostalgic feel and to be honest I don't think it would have worked as well with someone younger (i.e. Dalton) playing Bond. Personally I wouldn't want to get rid of that piece.
    -Don't include comedy-laced car/fire engine chases
    -Don't have Bond get with Stacey at the end
  • edited September 2014 Posts: 654
    *DELETE
  • edited September 2014 Posts: 4,813
    I'm such a dope. Last night I had the place to myself so I watched this just to see if my comments (which were made after not seeing the movie in a while) were sound. They were.

    But my girlfriend walked in the door and asked what I was watching and I said 'Avtak', like it was a real freaking word! It took me a second before I even realized what I said!
  • I just came home from a Bondevent in Stockholm, wich was great fun! It was weekend filled with Bondstars like Robert Davi and Kristina Wayborn and we watchd five movies. One of them was AVTAK, and after watching it in a cinema I have to say it was pretty amazing! The best was that I ataully sat beside Mary Stavin during the screening!
  • MayDayDiVicenzoMayDayDiVicenzo Here and there
    Posts: 5,080
    I just came home from a Bondevent in Stockholm, wich was great fun! It was weekend filled with Bondstars like Robert Davi and Kristina Wayborn and we watchd five movies. One of them was AVTAK, and after watching it in a cinema I have to say it was pretty amazing! The best was that I ataully sat beside Mary Stavin during the screening!

    Lucky! I bet it was quite something! I hope one day that I'll be able to witness AVTAK on the big screen...
  • BAIN123 wrote: »
    -Don't have Bond get with Stacey at the end
    That would have been a great way to keep Moore. It's the topic of alot of ridicule AVTAK gets
  • wintandkiddfaroutwintandkiddfarout Australia
    edited September 2020 Posts: 32
    I agree with the idea of making May Day a villain through and through. Her change of sides comes way too easily. Here's how I imagine the finale alternative for the movie:

    Let's say Zorin and May Day genuinely love each other and Dr. Carl Mortner is long deceased and Project Main Strike is devoted to his memory, because he would be so proud of his boy Max.
    May Day is the one who helps Zorin in the massacre and when it's over they high-five and cuddle laughing and saying what an awesome team they are.
    Scarpine is permitted to live for whatever reason and has the blimp ready for their escape.

    Let's just say somehow Bond and Stacey get the bomb safely out before it explodes and things progress as in the original with Stacey's kdnapping, Bond hitching a ride and the action at the Golden Gate Bridge.
    Then things take a different turn as Zorin is knocked out in the fight with Stacey, May Day orders Scarpine to get Bond and then she seizes the axe when Stacey hits Scarpine out cold.

    So May Day has the dangerous fight with Bond and when Zorin comes to, he is horrified to see his henchwoman dangling over the edge desperately trying to get a handhold. He cries out. "MAY DAY! MAY DAY!" and she gives a mad laugh as she goes down to her death with a scream.

    Naturally Zorin wails in grief, which quickly turns to rage resulting in him emptying his gun at Bond who takes shelter with Stacey. Then Zorin is blown up along with Scarpine trying to throw a dynamite stick as Bond sends the blimp lurching with the axe May Day had been trying to kill him with.

    Does anybody else think this would have been an awesome scenario?
  • TripAcesTripAces Universal Exports
    Posts: 4,585
    After all these years, the OP basically nailed it right off.

    The only thing I'd add is to recast Stacey Sutton's role.
  • wintandkiddfaroutwintandkiddfarout Australia
    Posts: 32
    TripAces wrote: »

    The only thing I'd add is to recast Stacey Sutton's role.

    Do you have anybody you'd recommend?

  • TripAcesTripAces Universal Exports
    Posts: 4,585
    TripAces wrote: »

    The only thing I'd add is to recast Stacey Sutton's role.

    Do you have anybody you'd recommend?

    From the mid-80s, who would have worked? Maybe Kim Greist or Theresa Russell.
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