The TIMOTHY DALTON Appreciation thread - Discuss His Life, His Career, His Bond Films

acoppola

BAIN123 wrote:

I'm not saying Dalton was wrong for Bond (I don't think he was btw) but part of me can understand the "too theatrical" criticism that has been levelled against him. You CAN see the expressions on his face, the way he looks round dramatically when he enters a room, the way he looks around when he's angry and the rather awkward smiles he sometimes makes when he's suppose to be relaxed.

That's not to say he didn't have his moments (the Pushkin scene is great and Dalton sells it brilliantly). He looks the part, he's athelic and he's handsome but I think he had some faults.

acoppola wrote:

Regan wrote:

I think... I may be wrong, but I think BAIN has an all encompassing belief that Dalton is just a tad too "stagey". (<- bit o' good natured sarcasm there).

All in all, BAIN, if that is your belief you are welcome to it but truth is once that's gotten into you, you'll find validation in almost every scene and gesture, because he's "acting" too much. Oh look he widened his eyes in that scene... He's too "thespy". His lips quivered there... Too drama-ey. Once again, everybody is entitled to their own opinion, but as a fresh, unpolluted fan, I never once got that from him. Perhaps the closest was the "strawberry jam" line but only barely. All I'm saying is Dalton was right for Bond and I'm glad as heck he got cast and we were treated to his two films. Should've done more.

I have to say @Regan But to me, Dalton overpowered Moore in the sense of how he took command of the situation. I mean the scene where they try to put Koskov in the boot. Damn, but Dalton smolders with how he gives orders and takes charge. He is not a man I would want to displease.

And when he delivers the line to Saunder's in the car "Sorry old chap! Section 5, paragraph 6 ; need to know. Sure you understand?!". Well to me that is Bond's wit and suaveness rolled into one. I thought that was cool as anything I saw before.

Dalton revs his Bond like a gas peddle, but he does not keep the Bond persona on full rev at all times. He knows when to be the charmer and when to be the bastard. And does it all with ease.

You cannot read Dalton's Bond easily and that shows complexity. What lies beneath is scary. Like when Saunder's is murdered and he almost wants to take it out on Kara, but holds back. It is similar to the scene in CR where Bond and Vesper are having an argument on the balcony when she does not want to give him more money.

And at the end of the scene how he grabs Kara's hand like she is a toy and almost drags her away is another superbly shown part of Bond's dominance with the ladies and his sexism too.

I liked that bit too

The theatricality is not a bad thing in my book. Did you know the Dracula persona that became legendary was totally based on theatricality. Bela Lugosi did the play for years and then transferred those characteristics to the screen. So did Gary Oldman.

And Dracula is a personality to be reckoned with. The theatricality gives him the sexiness despite being a villain and women found that arousing.

Acting is theatricality at it's core. That is where it's roots are. Cinema is a newer medium but theatre has been around for millenia and is the rawest form of drama.

But Dalton can do both the theatre and film. Just like Craig and that gives him an edge. Dalton's Bond is a scary figure. He is not as reassuringly nice as Roger's who you could bring to your grandmother for tea.

In all honesty, but some movie stars are not very good actors.

acoppola

BAIN123 wrote:

I'm not saying Dalton was wrong for Bond (I don't think he was btw) but part of me can understand the "too theatrical" criticism that has been levelled against him. You CAN see the expressions on his face, the way he looks round dramatically when he enters a room and how he does the same when he's angry - and the rather awkward smiles he sometimes makes when he's suppose to be relaxed.

That's not to say he didn't have his moments (the Pushkin scene is great and Dalton sells it brilliantly). He looks the part, he's athelic and he's handsome but I think he had some faults.

acoppola wrote:

Regan wrote:

I think... I may be wrong, but I think BAIN has an all encompassing belief that Dalton is just a tad too "stagey". (<- bit o' good natured sarcasm there).

All in all, BAIN, if that is your belief you are welcome to it but truth is once that's gotten into you, you'll find validation in almost every scene and gesture, because he's "acting" too much. Oh look he widened his eyes in that scene... He's too "thespy". His lips quivered there... Too drama-ey. Once again, everybody is entitled to their own opinion, but as a fresh, unpolluted fan, I never once got that from him. Perhaps the closest was the "strawberry jam" line but only barely. All I'm saying is Dalton was right for Bond and I'm glad as heck he got cast and we were treated to his two films. Should've done more.

I have to say @Regan But to me, Dalton overpowered Moore in the sense of how he took command of the situation. I mean the scene where they try to put Koskov in the boot. Damn, but Dalton smolders with how he gives orders and takes charge. He is not a man I would want to displease.

And when he delivers the line to Saunder's in the car "Sorry old chap! Section 5, paragraph 6 ; need to know. Sure you understand?!". Well to me that is Bond's wit and suaveness rolled into one. I thought that was cool as anything I saw before.

Dalton revs his Bond like a gas peddle, but he does not keep the Bond persona on full rev at all times. He knows when to be the charmer and when to be the bastard. And does it all with ease.

You cannot read Dalton's Bond easily and that shows complexity. What lies beneath is scary. Like when Saunder's is murdered and he almost wants to take it out on Kara, but holds back. It is similar to the scene in CR where Bond and Vesper are having an argument on the balcony when she does not want to give him more money.

And at the end of the scene how he grabs Kara's hand like she is a toy and almost drags her away is another superbly shown part of Bond's dominance with the ladies and his sexism too.

I liked that bit too

Glad you liked it @Bain123 That scene though tense has a sexiness to it. Just as Bond leads Kara away from the funfair, look at her face and body language. She looks incredibly sexy in the way she reacts. I think she is the Bond girl I would love to date the most.

I call that scene "The Lion and The Lamb!" The contrast is amazing and shows why Bond is so cool.

BAIN123

Dalton is a good actor but part of me does wonder whether he's more suited for theatre.

Dalts would probably make a good dracula. He's great at the over-the-top villain routine (see Hot Fuzz).

Acting is theatricality at it's core. That is where it's roots are.

That's a good point but they do have their differences. An actor like Ralph Feinnes for example makes a brilliant actor on both stage AND screen. He knows when to go over-the-top and emphasise the drama (I saw a screening of Correlaneous (?) last year in which he was actually present. There's a scene where he makes a very "theatrical" speech and |Feinnes actually admitted he only had the energy to do it twice). Likewise he can deliver lines calmly yet naturally when required (i.e. in Skyfall).

Bottom line is that he's more adaptable. I don't know if Dalts is as adaptable.

acoppola

BAIN123 wrote:

Dalton is a good actor but part of me does wonder whether he's more suited for theatre.

Dalts would probably make a good dracula. He's great at the over-the-top villain routine (see Hot Fuzz).

Acting is theatricality at it's core. That is where it's roots are.

That's a good point but they do have their differences. An actor like Ralph Feinnes for example makes a brilliant actor on both stage AND screen. He knows when to go over-the-top and emphasise the drama (I saw a screening of Correlaneous (?) last year in which he was actually present. There's a scene where he makes a very "theatrical" speech and |Feinnes actually admitted he only had the energy to do it twice). Likewise he can deliver lines calmly yet naturally when required (i.e. in Skyfall).

Have you seen Dalton young in Wuthering Heights?. He has that matinee idol approach and damn he could have been a fine Bond at the age of 26 like he was then.

Ralph Fiennes plays a lot of villain roles mostly and so it blends in both the theatre and screen acting. Like you said, Dalton plays the villain in your estimation very well in Hot Fuzz.

Have you seen Dalton playing opposite Hopkins in The Lion In Winter?. They are both equally as good on screen.

You have to check him out in Mae West's Sextette. He is a movie star in that. He plays on the British stereotype and has all the charm associated with the English gentleman.

But his approach as regards Fleming to me is perfect. It is a nice document for those who value the books and the attitudes in them.

BAIN123

acoppola wrote:

BAIN123 wrote:

Dalton is a good actor but part of me does wonder whether he's more suited for theatre.

Dalts would probably make a good dracula. He's great at the over-the-top villain routine (see Hot Fuzz).

Acting is theatricality at it's core. That is where it's roots are.

That's a good point but they do have their differences. An actor like Ralph Feinnes for example makes a brilliant actor on both stage AND screen. He knows when to go over-the-top and emphasise the drama (I saw a screening of Correlaneous (?) last year in which he was actually present. There's a scene where he makes a very "theatrical" speech and |Feinnes actually admitted he only had the energy to do it twice). Likewise he can deliver lines calmly yet naturally when required (i.e. in Skyfall).

Have you seen Dalton young in Wuthering Heights?. He has that matinee idol approach and damn he could have been a fine Bond at the age of 26 like he was then.

Ralph Fiennes plays a lot of villain roles mostly and so it blends in both the theatre and screen acting. Like you said, Dalton plays the villain in your estimation very well in Hot Fuzz.

Have you seen Dalton playing opposite Hopkins in The Lion In Winter?. They are both equally as good on screen.

You have to check him out in Mae West's Sextette. He is a movie star in that. He plays on the British stereotype and has all the charm associated with the English gentleman.

But his approach as regards Fleming to me is perfect. It is a nice document for those who value the books and the attitudes in them.

I haven't actually. I'll be honest I've not seen Dalts in much apart from Hot Fuzz, Toy Story 3 and The Rocketeer. I liked him in all three of those films - but they are parts that emphasise his "acktorly" manner.

I have seen a clip from Sexette too though where he's "singing" with Mae West. It made me cringe :p

acoppola

BAIN123 wrote:

acoppola wrote:

BAIN123 wrote:

Dalton is a good actor but part of me does wonder whether he's more suited for theatre.

Dalts would probably make a good dracula. He's great at the over-the-top villain routine (see Hot Fuzz).

Acting is theatricality at it's core. That is where it's roots are.

That's a good point but they do have their differences. An actor like Ralph Feinnes for example makes a brilliant actor on both stage AND screen. He knows when to go over-the-top and emphasise the drama (I saw a screening of Correlaneous (?) last year in which he was actually present. There's a scene where he makes a very "theatrical" speech and |Feinnes actually admitted he only had the energy to do it twice). Likewise he can deliver lines calmly yet naturally when required (i.e. in Skyfall).

Have you seen Dalton young in Wuthering Heights?. He has that matinee idol approach and damn he could have been a fine Bond at the age of 26 like he was then.

Ralph Fiennes plays a lot of villain roles mostly and so it blends in both the theatre and screen acting. Like you said, Dalton plays the villain in your estimation very well in Hot Fuzz.

Have you seen Dalton playing opposite Hopkins in The Lion In Winter?. They are both equally as good on screen.

You have to check him out in Mae West's Sextette. He is a movie star in that. He plays on the British stereotype and has all the charm associated with the English gentleman.

But his approach as regards Fleming to me is perfect. It is a nice document for those who value the books and the attitudes in them.

I haven't actually. I'll be honest I've not seen Dalts in much apart from Hot Fuzz, Toy Story 3 and The Rocketeer. I liked him in all three of those films - but they are parts that emphasise his "acktorly" manner.

I have seen a clip from Sexette too though where he's "singing" with Mae West. It made me cringe :p

Oh the singing in Sextette. that was purposefully campy. But watch him in the rest and he is a laugh. He sends himself up and you get scenes with him alongside Ringo Starr, Keith Moon and Alice Cooper. A camp classic and he could have been a campy Bond if he chose to.

He is great with Joan Collins in sins and you need to check him out in Linda La Plantes Framed. She wanted him for the part of the sleazy villain and you will see more of the Hot Fuzz Dalton. He looks believable with Penelope Cruz who got her first main acting job as Dalton's bit on the side.

BAIN123

...Oh and I've seen him in Flash Gordon too. Probably the campest movie there is :p

acoppola

BAIN123 wrote:

...Oh and I've seen him in Flash Gordon too. Probably the campest movie there is :p

I cannot believe this. I have only seen bits of him in Flash Gordon. Maybe because I am not too much of a sci fi buff.

Regan

Oh @BAIN123, You so need to check out the rest of Sextette… it really is so bad, it’s actually good LOL. If only for that bit where he sings… I was rolling on the floor laughing. @acoppola, the funniest part for me is when he’s talking to the reporters all gentlemanly about his relationship to Mae and he keeps saying all these really gay sounding stuff and he is sooo oblivious. The reporters are all saucer-eyed and like.. huh! I swear I split a rib laughing, it was so goofy and he was so funny. Incidentally, he looked gorgeous as hell in that movie… dreamy.

Wuthering Heights, the Dalton version is one of my favorite movies of all time, and by far my favorite adaptation. He was so arresting and deliciously evil… and being a huge fan of the novel, he totally satisfied my yearning for a flesh and blood Heathcliff. His performance is so powerful I cry every time I watch it.

In Framed, couldn’t believe it when Penelope Cruz popped up on the screen.. their chemistry is off the charts there. She is all over Dalton and the steaminess is off the charts. I do have to say that Dalton towered over everybody in Framed, both appearance wise and acting wise. He is like a hurricane. You can definitely see the “movie” star appeal there because he is just so extravagantly good looking in it and so authoritative and intense by comparison to everyone else.

thelivingroyale

I'd just like to take a sec to thank @acoppola and @Regan for showing up on here and helping to boost the Dalton love to a whole new level.

Let's keep this thread going, I don't want it to die again!

acoppola

thelivingroyale wrote:

I'd just like to take a sec to thank @acoppola and @Regan for showing up on here and helping to boost the Dalton love to a whole new level.

Let's keep this thread going, I don't want it to die again!

You are welcome @thelivingroyale When I see a brilliant actor get trashed out of ignorance then I get annoyed. Public opinion is ignorant a lot of the times especially when it comes to the arts. Most people are spoon fed what to think rather than to think. If I read a poll then Star Wars is the greatest film ever made and is that true?

Popularity is never a benchmark of quality. McDonald's is more popular than The Ritz, but I know where I would sooner go eat.:)

Dalton as a Bond to me is never going to be equalled. He is a standalone. No copy or servant of what came before. The actor who comes closest in look is Clive Owen and naturally I would like him to give it a shot. Anyone seen him in the Guy Richie directed BMW advert with Madonna?. He is cool as F!:)


Look for the scene where he blows a sarcastic kiss at the other car in the chase.

Regan

Thank you @thelivingroyale, and you are more than welcome :). I do love this thread myself. I have to hand it to @acoppola in terms of Dalton knowledge as well, his contributions have been made of win.

Regan

BAIN123 wrote:

...Oh and I've seen him in Flash Gordon too. Probably the campest movie there is :p

It is really camp, and probably my less liked role of his... he still looks great and I love his exchanges with Ornella Muti, but the movie itself is just so very OTT with the Queen song and all. Still worth a watch though.

acoppola

Regan wrote:

Oh @BAIN123, You so need to check out the rest of Sextette… it really is so bad, it’s actually good LOL. If only for that bit where he sings… I was rolling on the floor laughing. @acoppola, the funniest part for me is when he’s talking to the reporters all gentlemanly about his relationship to Mae and he keeps saying all these really gay sounding stuff and he is sooo oblivious. The reporters are all saucer-eyed and like.. huh! I swear I split a rib laughing, it was so goofy and he was so funny. Incidentally, he looked gorgeous as hell in that movie… dreamy.

Wuthering Heights, the Dalton version is one of my favorite movies of all time, and by far my favorite adaptation. He was so arresting and deliciously evil… and being a huge fan of the novel, he totally satisfied my yearning for a flesh and blood Heathcliff. His performance is so powerful I cry every time I watch it.

In Framed, couldn’t believe it when Penelope Cruz popped up on the screen.. their chemistry is off the charts there. She is all over Dalton and the steaminess is off the charts. I do have to say that Dalton towered over everybody in Framed, both appearance wise and acting wise. He is like a hurricane. You can definitely see the “movie” star appeal there because he is just so extravagantly good looking in it and so authoritative and intense by comparison to everyone else.

Dalton had a huge female following because of the classic romantic roles he played. Jane Eyre was massive in the UK and any woman who read the books and loved them is bound to be attracted to him.

Though it is true that a woman does not judge a man by looks alone. But when a man is handsome and is sure of who he is, then a woman will be attracted. My sister's husband's friend once saw Dalton in London and said in real life he is striking and stands out.

Some think Dalton was not popular because he was not considered sexy as Bond. Well, in reality that is as true as saying Monica Bellucci is not sexy because she is not a big mainstream actress. Same for Sophie Marceau.

Maryam D'Abo is phenomenally sexy but she does not rank highly in polls. But I would prefer a night with her than with Angelina Jolie.

Not all actors/actresses like the limelight and how it invades on their personal space. Too much fame is a prison and Dalton is a private man who does not want his personal life too exposed.

We live in an age where Justin Beiber is considered sexy as is Eminem as well as Pitbull. I rest my case, but the last thing I go on is public opinion. Tastes have certainly changed and you can make anything considered attractive if you keep repeating it to the docile suburban masses.

My television tells me how to think. That is the age we are in. Some would believe p*ss is champagne if they heard it enough times. But I wait until the dust of hype settles and see things clear as a crystal.

acoppola

Regan wrote:

Thank you @thelivingroyale, and you are more than welcome :). I do love this thread myself. I have to hand it to @acoppola in terms of Dalton knowledge as well, his contributions have been made of win.

Thanks @Regan

chrisisall

'Twasn't lies, Jenny. 'Twas acting.
I love the way he delivered that line.

BAIN123

chrisisall wrote:

'Twasn't lies, Jenny. 'Twas acting.
I love the way he delivered that line.

I like the way he says "Carcharodon carcharias" in LTK.

Regan

chrisisall wrote:

'Twasn't lies, Jenny. 'Twas acting.
I love the way he delivered that line.

Ok next in line, The Rocketeer... I've yet to watch that one.

chrisisall

Regan wrote:

Ok next in line, The Rocketeer... I've yet to watch that one.

It's quite a good little movie- Dalton being in it is just a terrific extra!

Regan

One more great review from a young fan (born the same year TLD came out). Very articulate, thorough review.

BAIN123

Actually I'll tell you who Dalton reminds me of a bit - Jim Carter from The Madness of King George.

Big tall English actor with dark hair and a deep booming voice (though Dalton isn't as big round the waist).

chrisisall

Bain, remember, a Bond fan's strength flows from the Fleming. But beware. Connery, Moore, Lazenby. The cinematic side are they. Once you start down the cinematic path, forever will it dominate your destiny.
Bain... Bain... do not... do not underestimate the powers of the Daltonator or suffer your fellow Bond fans literary-challenged fate you will.

Getafix

Are you suggesting that Darth Brosnan is on the Fleming side of the force?

BAIN123

Good review above :)

Glad he's critical of Caroline Bliss too

acoppola

BAIN123 wrote:

Good review above :)

Glad he's critical of Caroline Bliss too

Miss Bliss played the Moneypenny that blatantly would do anything kinky for James at the click of his fingers. Look at how he pats her on the butt in TLD. Very sexist of Bond and so much for those saying Dalton was too PC. He is a blatant medallion man by LTK:)

I could imagine his Bond snorting coke with Sanchez had he not harmed Felix or his wife.

As for Caroline Bliss. She is different to Lois Maxwell but they under developed her in the next film. But I do not look into her character that deeply.

BAIN123

acoppola wrote:

BAIN123 wrote:

Good review above :)

Glad he's critical of Caroline Bliss too

Miss Bliss played the Moneypenny that blatantly would do anything kinky for James at the click of his fingers. Look at how he pats her on the butt in TLD. Very sexist of Bond and so much for those saying Dalton was too PC. He is a blatant medallion man by LTK:)

I could imagine his Bond snorting coke with Sanchez had he not harmed Felix or his wife.

As for Caroline Bliss. She is different to Lois Maxwell but they under developed her in the next film. But I do not look into her character that deeply.

Her scenes with Dalton weren't convincing or "kinky" at all.

I think Lee Pfeiffer and Dave Worrall summed it up best (and they otherwise praise TLD):

"The task of following on from Louis Maxwell in the character of Moneypenny after her 14 performances is not an enviable one. Caroline Bliss fails to register a significant impact as the love-starved secretary but this is because the script does not provide much of the flirtatious banter that is traditional between Moneypenny and Bond. Dalton's Bond does not even seem aware of his affections and his relationship with MP is not in the least suggestive".

I agree.

There was only one man who could do a but patt and make it look brilliantly sexist:

acoppola

BAIN123 wrote:

acoppola wrote:

BAIN123 wrote:

Good review above :)

Glad he's critical of Caroline Bliss too

Miss Bliss played the Moneypenny that blatantly would do anything kinky for James at the click of his fingers. Look at how he pats her on the butt in TLD. Very sexist of Bond and so much for those saying Dalton was too PC. He is a blatant medallion man by LTK:)

I could imagine his Bond snorting coke with Sanchez had he not harmed Felix or his wife.

As for Caroline Bliss. She is different to Lois Maxwell but they under developed her in the next film. But I do not look into her character that deeply.

Her scenes with Dalton weren't convincing or "kinky" at all.

I think Lee Pfeiffer and Dave Worrall summed it up best (and they otherwise praise TLD):

"The task of following on from Louis Maxwell in the character of Moneypenny after her 14 performances is not an enviable one. Caroline Bliss fails to register a significant impact as the love-starved secretary but this is because the script does not provide much of the flirtatious banter that is traditional between Moneypenny and Bond. Dalton's Bond does not even seem aware of his affections and his relationship with MP is not in the least suggestive".

I agree.

There was only one man who could do a but patt and make it look brilliantly sexist:

The pat on the butt is subtle but sexist in TLD. The way Bond rejects her in the way he puts her glasses back on is sugestive but at the same time he looks like he would if nothing else is available.

Dalton did say in a post LTK interview that in his next Bond film there should be more flirting with her. But the next film never materialised. But the Moneypenny scenes in his movies were not a deal breaker. Just like no Moneypenny in Craig's first films did not bother me either.

the Q scenes were great and made up for it. But I disagree with those two Bond historians. She blatantly comes across like she wants to shag him in TLD. I just think she looks so much younger than her predecessor just like the new Q.

BAIN123

I've never been that bothered about the lack of MP in Bond movies either but I always felt rather unconvinced by the Dalts/Bliss scenes.

Dalts does have a rather cheekey manner about him in interviews so maybe with a different actress it could have been different. Who knows?

acoppola

BAIN123 wrote:

I've never been that bothered about the lack of MP in Bond movies either but I always felt rather unconvinced by the Dalts/Bliss scenes.

Dalts does have a rather cheekey manner about him in interviews so maybe with a different actress it could have been different. Who knows?

He does great in them but because Lois had left the series, they did not want to make those scenes as major and cut them down. I think Lois should have stayed on for TLD but the producers felts her age was too far ahead of Dalton's. Moore and Connery were the right age for her Moneypenny.

They would have been criticised just as much for showing an older Moneypenny with Bond.

BAIN123

The way Dalts flicks his eyes to the side when he says "believe me my interest in her is purely professional" is the indicator he's uncomfortable.