The TIMOTHY DALTON Appreciation thread - Discuss His Life, His Career, His Bond Films

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  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    I guess TLD and LTK give Bond fans two very different choices: serious yet romantic, and fun and then the DARK, vengeful, violent and bloody one. I don't enjoy LTK much, but Sanchez's death is very satisfying indeed and played to perfection by Dalton.
    Exactly- when I want the smooth perfect Bond movie, I go to TLD; when I want bada*s Bond causing mayhem, there's LTK. Either way, I turn the DVD player off happy. There isn't a Bond actor I don't enjoy, but there isn't a Bond actor that delivers unto me that extra-special little thrill in his performance like Dalton.
  • My best friend & I have gotten really into the Bond franchise over the past six months. After I watched Skyfall in theatre's, I knew I wanted to try out the rest of the older films. Once I discovered that I was amazed by how much I enjoyed the Connery movies, I was excited to see all the other actors. My first Dalton movie was The Living Daylights. I can't explain exactly why, but I was blown away by Dalton. Especially after I had read a lot of negative things about his portrayal of Bond. The most unique thing about Dalton was not his brutality. It was his odd sense of truly romantic romance he brought to the character that is James Bond.
  • hullcityfanhullcityfan Banned
    Posts: 496
    Ok sorry but we do need to talk about Dalton again and I know I'll comment about Dalton later on the Doctor Who discussion page. :((

    I hated that episode of Doctor Who he was in.

    John Simm, brilliant actor who did a great job as The Master before was completely wasted. It was almost heart breaking watching him running around eating homeless people and having random spasms.

    The story was stupid (everyone becoming The Master), and the whole thing was so overly melodramatic. He knows he's not actually dying (just changing again), and he's still crying about how he doesn't want to go.

    Dalton was the only good thing about that episode.


    And the fact it was Christmas day! :))
  • edited June 2013 Posts: 1,661
    I was flicking through Freeview last night and Mr Dalton popped up on a Miss Marple episode. I don't know if he was the murderer or the person to get killed. I'm sure Miss Marple solved the case. She's one smart lady! ;)
  • Posts: 3,333
    I'm still waiting for someone to give us a review of Charles Helfenstain's The Making of The Living Daylights. I'm surprised that no Daltonites have bought a copy!!

    the%2Bliving%2Bdaylights%2Bbook-charles-helfenstein.jpg
  • MrBondMrBond Station S
    Posts: 2,044
    bondsum wrote:
    I'm still waiting for someone to give us a review of Charles Helfenstain's The Making of The Living Daylights. I'm surprised that no Daltonites have bought a copy!!

    the%2Bliving%2Bdaylights%2Bbook-charles-helfenstein.jpg

    I've got it, and it is excellent in all kinds of ways. The books first chapter take's up the first draft and how the original story about a young James Bond slowly grows into to finally become the man we know. In that first script it is revealed that Bond goes to his ancesteral home and meets up with his old uncle.

    And after that it follows the search for the lead actor, with some pages of pictures with Brosnan and Cubby when he signed the deal to play Bond. Then it is very in-depth about the filming and the last chapters is about the marketing and the reviews and box-office results and finally the legacy of TLD. Where we get a first look about the film that was about to become LTK, and how Dalton continued being loyal to the franchise. For example there was his speech he held on Cubbys and John Barrys funerals!

    This book is a "must have" for all Daltonites and Bondfans!
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    Posts: 13,978
    As a front line Daltonite, I feel deeply ashamed that I still do not own a copy of that amazing looking book.

    I shall throw myself on the mercy of the big man himself, and hope that my plea that I will own a copy (even if I must conduct my own Ocean's Eleven* to acquire enough money), is enough.


    * The Sinatra version, naturally.
  • edited June 2013 Posts: 12,837
    I did see that on Amazon but it was £35 and that's quite a bit for a book. If it's worth the money though then I'll definitely get it soon.
  • Posts: 3,333
    Thank you, @MrBond. I have Helfenstain's Making of OHMSS and that is a must have for any fan of that great movie. The thing I liked about that particular book was not only the overview of the film's complex shooting but the abundance of information on the film's release, merchandise and promotion. At a similar price, if the TLD book is anything like the OHMSS one, then it is well worth paying £35 and you won't be disappointed, @thelivingroyale.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    I'm so broke right now I can't afford an expensive book... but as soon as my ship sails in...!!!
  • MrBond wrote:
    bondsum wrote:
    I'm still waiting for someone to give us a review of Charles Helfenstain's The Making of The Living Daylights. I'm surprised that no Daltonites have bought a copy!!

    the%2Bliving%2Bdaylights%2Bbook-charles-helfenstein.jpg

    I've got it, and it is excellent in all kinds of ways. The books first chapter take's up the first draft and how the original story about a young James Bond slowly grows into to finally become the man we know. In that first script it is revealed that Bond goes to his ancesteral home and meets up with his old uncle.

    And after that it follows the search for the lead actor, with some pages of pictures with Brosnan and Cubby when he signed the deal to play Bond. Then it is very in-depth about the filming and the last chapters is about the marketing and the reviews and box-office results and finally the legacy of TLD. Where we get a first look about the film that was about to become LTK, and how Dalton continued being loyal to the franchise. For example there was his speech he held on Cubbys and John Barrys funerals!

    This book is a "must have" for all Daltonites and Bondfans!

    I have it too and agree with the above. It's phenomenally-well researched and goes into great detail about a lot of elements that we previously knew very little about. The section featuring the original treatment for Bond 15, a "prequel", is particularly interesting.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,183
    I could buy it for about €48, which isn't exactly a bargain. So I would like some word on whether or not it's worth the money. ;-)
  • MrBondMrBond Station S
    Posts: 2,044
    DarthDimi wrote:
    I could buy it for about €48, which isn't exactly a bargain. So I would like some word on whether or not it's worth the money. ;-)

    I paid the same price, and believe me. I was unsure if it was worth it, but I should never had any doubts. It is a truly phenomenal book!

  • DarthDimi wrote:
    I could buy it for about €48, which isn't exactly a bargain. So I would like some word on whether or not it's worth the money. ;-)

    It's certainly worth the money. Highly recommended (as it "The Making of On Her Majesty's Secret Service" by the same author)
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    edited June 2013 Posts: 13,355
    Is a third book planned? Either another debut film or Licence To Kill I would think.
  • edited June 2013 Posts: 12,837
    Thanks @bondsum, @MrBond and @Sir_James_Moloney. I'm saving up for a new ride cymbal right now and then of course there's bills to pay, etc, but I should be able to order it soon. I'll post here when I get it.

    I'll also look into getting the OHMSS one at some point down the line.

    @Samuel001 He seems to be going for the underappreciated movies that are closer to Fleming so if he does another I think there's a good chance it'll be LTK.
  • MrBondMrBond Station S
    Posts: 2,044
    Charles Helfenstein has said that his work with these books is done and he's hoping that someone else are going to do similar books.
    OHMSS and TLD are his favorite films, too.
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    Posts: 13,355
    That's a shame but at least we got two from him. I'll pick them up soon, as soon as I have the money.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    edited June 2013 Posts: 24,183
    Thanks for the tip, gents! I ordered the books (OHMSS and TLD) on bookdepository.co.uk less than a minute ago. ;-)
  • edited June 2013 Posts: 11,189
    Had a desire to stick in TLD again yesterday and saw a bit of it. While I still maintain Dalton had his flaws (he certainly looks awkward in some of the lighter scenes) I was reminded again at how EXCELLENT he is in the Pushkin sequence :)
  • Posts: 2,402
    I've always admired how loyal Dalton has been to the series' creators and the others involved such as Barry. Even though he got a bad deal out of the franchise, only two movies (albeit they're two of the best) and a continued disdain amongst critics and fans, he's always spoken favourably about Cubby.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,183
    I've always admired how loyal Dalton has been to the series' creators and the others involved such as Barry. Even though he got a bad deal out of the franchise, only two movies (albeit they're two of the best) and a continued disdain amongst critics and fans, he's always spoken favourably about Cubby.

    Indeed, although I'm not sure about the continued disdain. I think Dalton's Bonds, both his performances and the two films, have gained a lot more respect over the years. ;-)

  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    DarthDimi wrote:
    I think Dalton's Bonds, both his performances and the two films, have gained a lot more respect over the years. ;-)
    From the REAL Bond fans, certainly. I'd say the general public would say, "Tim who?"
    :-<
  • Posts: 2,402
    I'm not sure. I really feel like I can't breathe outside of this forum with regards to my acclaim for Dalton. He's often, at best, maligned by most Bond fans.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    chrisisall wrote:
    DarthDimi wrote:
    I think Dalton's Bonds, both his performances and the two films, have gained a lot more respect over the years. ;-)
    From the REAL Bond fans, certainly. I'd say the general public would say, "Tim who?"
    :-<

    To be fair, some of those people are a part of the same crowd that spends collective millions in cinemas and stores for films that are big on 'splosions and small on deep characterization and plots. Not much is to be expected.

    Tim is a true thespian who is not very well known by the public at large, and considering he only did two Bond films and he doesn't publicize his life all over the place it isn't hard to see why (but I respect him for all of that).

    We will all simply have to spread the word and keep his performances in TLD and LTK alive.
  • Posts: 7,653
    chrisisall wrote:
    DarthDimi wrote:
    I think Dalton's Bonds, both his performances and the two films, have gained a lot more respect over the years. ;-)
    From the REAL Bond fans, certainly. I'd say the general public would say, "Tim who?"
    :-<

    In your view the only people that like James Bond are real Bond fans, which would make Bond fans that dislike Daltons era not REAL Bondfans???

    I guess disqualifying Bondfans from having a different opinion does make you a Bond-extremist who only finds his views all important.

    Daltons 1st movie was better suited for Moore or Brosnan and his second movie was more a generic actioner with a guy called James Bond starring. In my view TD never got his own Bondmovie with his own voice, something all other preformers did get, even Lazenby with his one movie got a better movie.
  • edited July 2013 Posts: 2,402
    I try to be relatively non-partisan on this forum because I don't want to make enemies, but honestly, I do question how much of a Bond fan most of the people who place Dalton at the bottom are. I really find those people end up choosing someone like Moore or Brosnan as the best, and from that I feel that they're the people who prefer turn off your brain action flicks to genuine spy thrillers with characterization, plot, and depth. Bond is a complex character, and I think being a true Bond fan requires some level of appreciation for more than just the Iceland car chase sequence from DAD or the PTS from TND. Say what you want about the Americanization and generic action elements of LTK, it still takes the time to create three-dimensional characters, which is much more than can be said about something like Moonraker or DAD.
  • Posts: 1,052
    I try to be relatively non-partisan on this forum because I don't want to make enemies, but honestly, I do question how much of a Bond fan most of the people who place Dalton at the bottom are. I really find those people end up choosing someone like Moore or Brosnan as the best, and from that I feel that they're the people who prefer turn off your brain action flicks to genuine spy thrillers with characterization, plot, and depth. Bond is a complex character, and I think being a true Bond fan requires some level of appreciation for more than just the Iceland car chase sequence from DAD or the PTS from TND. Say what you want about the Americanization and generic action elements of LTK, it still takes the time to create three-dimensional characters, which is much more than can be said about something like Moonraker or DAD.

    You can appreaciate different takes on the character, Rog is my personal fave but I also love Dalton and I feel like he is probably number 2 in my list these days. Different people see different things when watching films, despite Moore's run being considered light weight, I definitley find moments where you can see how his Bond ticks such as the confrontation with Anya in TSWLM regarding him killing her lover and the dinner chat with Scaramanga and the world weary vibe in FYEO, sometimes you have to look a little deeper.

    I still feel that Timbo has the edge over Craig, he's just more suave, whilst playing it gritty he still just feels more like James Bond.
  • edited July 2013 Posts: 11,189
    I'm being honest here. I think the appeal of Connery and Moore compared to the overlook of Dalton stems from the fact that both of the former two make being James Bond look easy. Even Craig has a laid back arrogance and cockiness about him despite his more serious take on the role. Audiences like that. They like to see that Bond is enjoying himself as well as being a spy.

    With Tim it wasn't really like that. He was thinking all the time and audiences didn't really respond in the way the producers wanted them to. That's why they have altered Craig's version a bit.

    Heck even when reading Fleming one thing I noticed was how casual Bond could be. From his mannerisms (hands in pockets) to the clothes he wore (short sleave shirts). Despite the attempts I would NOT describe Dalton as casual.

    It's fairly trivial but Moore could make a line like "Moneypenny be a darling" sound natural, Tim couldn't.
  • acoppolaacoppola London Ealing not far from where Bob Simmons lived
    edited July 2013 Posts: 1,243
    BAIN123 wrote:
    I'm being honest here. I think the appeal of Connery and Moore compared to the overlook of Dalton stems from the fact that both of the former two make being James Bond look easy. Even Craig has a laid back arrogance and cockiness about him despite his more serious take on the role. Audiences like that. They like to see that Bond is enjoying himself as well as being a spy.

    With Tim it wasn't really like that. He was thinking all the time and audiences didn't really respond in the way the producers wanted them to. That's why they have altered Craig's version a bit.

    Heck even when reading Fleming one thing I noticed was how casual Bond could be. From his mannerisms (hands in pockets) to the clothes he wore (short sleave shirts). Despite the attempts I would NOT describe Dalton as casual.

    It's fairly trivial but Moore could make a line like "Moneypenny be a darling" sound natural, Tim couldn't.

    I am sure Dalton had his hands in his pockets in both films he did. In fact, in John Glen's book "For My Eyes Only" which I read, John says he and Tim butted heads over Bond putting his hands in his pockets. Glen felt it was not something Bond would do, whilst Dalton got his way, though not as far as he wanted.

    I would say Dalton was too casual in some scenes. In LTK, he dresses down like when he confronts M before he resigns the secret service. When he is in the bar, he is as casual as can be when the beer is ordered ; unless "Yeah! same!" is uncasual?????????????????????????? Because f**k me, I would qualify "Yeah! Same!" as casual. That is something Moore would never do.

    As for Roger Moore, he played more the English stereotype for American audiences. Moore's Bond natural? It is a put on a personality ; as fake as a tit job!!! Are you saying fake breasts are better than real breasts? Or more natural? ; as you constantly used that word to describe everything.

    When Dalton delivers in TLD the line "Moneypenny be a darling" after he gets the Harrods list, that is more how it would be delivered NATURALLY in real life.

    Dalton dominates her, and his body language tells her in no uncertain terms that he is not interested in f**king her, as he has had no shortage of women in his life. He uses economy in his charm to make it clear! And the next paragraph follows :-

    Naturally, knowing how thick some audience members are, they would not have read the body language. Dalton is not an actor who bends over to the dumb masses. And that was his crime when it came to media derision.

    Anyway, Dalton's films hold up great, and he is gaining more fans. He was too ahead of his time. He deserves the credit. Craig in essence is an amalgamation of Connery and Dalton. The latter two originated what we see today with a few embellishments.

    Dalton delivers subtly on the innuendo. Dalton did not overplay the Bond cliches. Moore ticked every cliche in the book.

    @Bain123, I am around here for a while. Check your facts before you commit to a debate. When the great white shark swims, the seal needs to be careful. :) Beware! Take care! cue the Jaws music. Boy, am I hungry!

    Is it safe to swim?
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