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Which Bond female character demise provided the greatest impact

Baltimore_007Baltimore_007
edited June 2012 in Bond Movies Posts: 5,634
There's already a thread for this somewhere in archives, I should know - been looking for the damn thing for the last twenty minutes, but it's like a needle in a haystack on the MI6 pages and I finally gave in and got a bit agitated to say the least, it's late and I'm tired and I did a big response on the original thread and think I lost all my work etc etc, anyway let's cut to the chase, Admin can lock it if they wish but I just decided not to be beaten by this

It was - what death of the series of a Bond FEMALE CHARACTER, i.e it doesn't necessarily have to be a Bond Girl, - hit you the hardest or left the biggest impression even, I tried to respond to the original thread and never found it again after the page went haywire so here you are, take it or leave it etc

I did an extensive run down of all the decades of the franchise with characters and women seen in the Bond films who I thought warranted a mention, I was quite pleased with my productivity, until I lost all my damn work. I chose Helga Brandt for the 1960s, Plenty O Toole for the 1970s, the Chinese narcotics agent for the 1980s, Paris Carver for the 1990s, and Eva Green for the 2000s, along with plenty of others names that didn't quite make it. I also said I thought the Vespa Lynd death in Royale was arguably the most touching and poignant of the entire franchise

I am Sorry for the thread duplication but I also saw about another half dozen examples as I trawled through the archives in my defense, feeling a bit tired and irritated so I'll call it a night, I just wondered if there was any fresh thoughts on this even. Goodnight : - /
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Comments

  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Easy. Vesper. I fell in love with her too, just like Bond, and felt that betrayal he felt. Then I see she made a deal that gave her life, all for him, and I am touched. I see her committing suicide because she can't be with Bond when he knows that she betrayed him so. In the end, she is a girl taken advantage of, who gathers her bearings, does evil at the hands of Quantum, but ultimately makes it right through her own sacrifice, which I think Bond knows and appreciates at QoS's end. I am still mystified about what he means when Bond says to M "you were right about Vesper".
  • KerimKerim Istanbul Not Constantinople
    Posts: 2,629
    I also agree that Vesper's did. You could argue for Tracy, but you would be wrong as she was completely forgotten when we were graced with DAF's presence.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 41,011
    My vote is for Vesper. Mrs. Carver's is good, and you can really see the sadness in Brosnan's eyes, but Vesper's was true, true love. Bond decided to throw away his job and spend the rest of his life with a woman he was intimate with for such a short time, and she was taken from him in a matter of minutes.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Creasy47 wrote:
    My vote is for Vesper. Mrs. Carver's is good, and you can really see the sadness in Brosnan's eyes, but Vesper's was true, true love. Bond decided to throw away his job and spend the rest of his life with a woman he was intimate with for such a short time, and she was taken from him in a matter of minutes.

    What a great explanation of their affair.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 41,011
    @0BradyM0Bondfanatic7, thank you very much.
  • thelivingroyalethelivingroyale
    edited December 2012 Posts: 12,837
    Tracy made the biggest impact to me.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    0BradyM0Bondfanatic7 wrote:
    Easy. Vesper. I fell in love with her too, just like Bond, and felt that betrayal he felt. Then I see she made a deal that gave her life, all for him, and I am touched. I see her committing suicide because she can't be with Bond when he knows that she betrayed him so. In the end, she is a girl taken advantage of, who gathers her bearings, does evil at the hands of Quantum, but ultimately makes it right through her own sacrifice, which I think Bond knows and appreciates at QoS's end. I am still mystified about what he means when Bond says to M "you were right about Vesper".

    Okay I know exctly what M meant, but I am now so tired I can't think straight. Let me get back to you in the morning. Because it was not confusing to me. Except when I am bone tired like right this second.
  • RogueAgentRogueAgent
    Posts: 12,526
    Although the death of Tracey was a massive impact on Bond? They blew it with such a dismissive PTS in DAF. Missed opportunity for some great Connery acting. So for me it would also have to be Vesper.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,257
    Yeah, Vesper. The way they played it out in QoS means it does carry some weight. Tracy's demise was, indeed, never really consequently used in DAF as a load that Bond carried on him.
  • JWESTBROOKJWESTBROOK
    Posts: 5,745
    DarthDimi wrote:
    Yeah, Vesper. The way they played it out in QoS means it does carry some weight. Tracy's demise was, indeed, never really consequently used in DAF as a load that Bond carried on him.

    Perhpas DAF didn't follow in chronological order.. (I haven't watched too much of the film so I wouldn't be surprised if someone attacked me senseless for this)
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,257
    I assume it did, for Bond started out hunting down Blofeld and recognising him. In that sense I can only consider this a follow-up to OHMSS.
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    Posts: 13,999
    I think it makes far more sense to take the events of DAF, as following on from those of YOLT. Bond is still hunting Blofeld in DAF, but that's only because he escaped at the end of YOLT. Once you add OHMSS into the mix, then questions are raised.
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    edited June 2012 Posts: 13,356
    Could this be the thread @Baltimore_007 is refering to?

    http://www.mi6community.com/index.php?p=/discussion/1658/worst-death-for-a-woman-in-bonds-world

    It's always best to search through Google and just add 'mi6 community' to what you're looking for. The search engine on the forum isn't great to put it mildly.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,385
    JWESTBROOK wrote:
    DarthDimi wrote:
    Yeah, Vesper. The way they played it out in QoS means it does carry some weight. Tracy's demise was, indeed, never really consequently used in DAF as a load that Bond carried on him.

    Perhpas DAF didn't follow in chronological order.. (I haven't watched too much of the film so I wouldn't be surprised if someone attacked me senseless for this)

    That's a good theory. And at some point, Peter Hunt thought along those lines...he was quoted in the OHMSS book.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 41,011
    @Samuel001, thanks for that tip. I always have the hardest of times finding topics on here: I'll enter word-for-word what I'm looking for, and rarely find it.
  • QsAssistantQsAssistant All those moments lost in time... like tears in rain
    Posts: 1,812
    I say Vesper's death had the greatest impact, followed by Paris's, then Tracy's.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    The theory that DAF isn't in chronological order is strange. Blofeld gets blown out of the water at the end, and yet we see him in FYEO's PTS, which is thought to be a flashback, where Blofeld has the same brace he wears in OHMSS. He doesn't wear it in DAF, however, and in FYEO he is apparently dispatched, following with Bond visiting Tracy's grave, showing Bond's resolve to kill Blofeld at any cause. Any thoughts? I doubt Blofeld survived the explosion in DAF and then make it out, injured his neck AGAIN, and then was dropped down the chimney. But note that FYEO is the last we see of him.
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    edited June 2012 Posts: 13,356
    I know I've said this many times before but:

    Diamonds Are Forever follows You Only Live Twice.

    For Your Eyes Only follows On Her Majesty's Secret Service.

    Simple. We just have two versions of the Bond vs. Blofeld battle.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Samuel001 wrote:
    I know I've said this many times before but:

    Diamonds Are Forever follows You Only Live Twice.

    For Your Eyes Only follows On Her Majesty's Secret Service.

    Simple. We just have two versions of the Bond vs. Blofeld battle.

    And yet, in FYEO and DAF Irma (you know, the one who actually killed TRACY!!!) is absent. What a crock.
  • thelivingroyalethelivingroyale
    Posts: 12,837
    In FYEO since it's been over 10 years anything could've happened to her. Blofeld should've killed Tracy, he's Bonds arch enemy, if Bond is Batman he's the Joker, so I think he should've killed Bond's wife.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    thelivingroyale wrote:
    In FYEO since it's been over 10 years anything could've happened to her. Blofeld should've killed Tracy, he's Bonds arch enemy, if Bond is Batman he's the Joker, so I think he should've killed Bond's wife.
    Yes, but that isn't how the chips fell, and why I hate DAF because of it.
  • myworldisenoughmyworldisenough
    Posts: 1,143
    Samuel001 wrote:
    I know I've said this many times before but:

    Diamonds Are Forever follows You Only Live Twice.

    For Your Eyes Only follows On Her Majesty's Secret Service.

    Simple. We just have two versions of the Bond vs. Blofeld battle.

    Surprisingly I've never given it much thought but I like the above as a point of view. In terms of the subject matter of the thread of course Vesper and Tracy but also good mention to Aki in YOLT. Very moving memorable scene.
  • jackdaggerjackdagger
    Posts: 498
    0BradyM0Bondfanatic7 wrote:
    And yet, in FYEO and DAF Irma (you know, the one who actually killed TRACY!!!) is absent. What a crock.

    Didn't that actress die right after filing OHMSS?

    Anyway, I'm still going to say Tracy, despite DAF. That's just because she's been mentioned so much since, and every time you can really see how much Bond was affected by it. It's too soon to tell with Vesper, we'll see if she's is mentioned in Skyfall, or in any movies after. :)

  • OHMSS69OHMSS69
    Posts: 2,341
    This discussion can only begin and end with :
    Tracy's murder af the end of OHMSS...unless you read the book or heard (and few of us had back in 1969) we never saw it coming. It was a real jolt and that ending helped to make OHMSS the classic it is and leaves it all alone out there.

    I see a lot of my fellow afficiondos here are saying Vesper. That was jolting but not so much because we all knew she was going to die. By the time the movie came out everyone had heard the final line in the book.( I won't even quote it here because we all know it too well and I refuse to insult anyone's intelligence)
    Craig played the part damned good but still...we knew it was coming...
    Tracy nee di Vicenzo Bond

    Without getting into too much detail I want to add:
    the road where she dies is the one where they met in the PTS
    Tracy tells Bond that he has already given her a wedding present: a future.
    So touching that she has gone from a suicidal and lost woman who wanted to end it all to looking forward to a bright future. then she is struck down by Irma Bunt's bullet. Bond's violent past had come to haunt him, and all his training could not save the woman he loved.
  • SirHenryLeeChaChingSirHenryLeeChaChing
    edited June 2012 Posts: 3,494
    jackdagger wrote:
    0BradyM0Bondfanatic7 wrote:
    And yet, in FYEO and DAF Irma (you know, the one who actually killed TRACY!!!) is absent. What a crock.

    Didn't that actress die right after filing OHMSS?

    Anyway, I'm still going to say Tracy, despite DAF. That's just because she's been mentioned so much since, and every time you can really see how much Bond was affected by it. It's too soon to tell with Vesper, we'll see if she's is mentioned in Skyfall, or in any movies after. :)

    Yes, Ilse Steppat died 4 days after the international release of OHMSS. They would have definitely needed to hire another actress to reprise the role.

    I would have to say Vesper, for the reason others have mentioned. Although Tracy's name never comes up in DAF, the viewer is left to assume her murder is the reason Bond is so hot to find and kill Blofeld. FYEO was a touching nod with her gravestone and Moore's solemn expression, but Vesper's name comes up numerous times in QOS and Bond's mission to find out what drove her to suicide is obvious even to someone who might not have seen CR first. You could argue that he married Tracy and not Vesper, but CR made it pretty clear that Bond wanted to marry Vesper. In book timeline, I always thought that one of Bond's motivations to marry Tracy was because he didn't want to lose another woman he truly loved and would have been content with. Before I married my wife, I had a Vesper of my own who chose to leave this world on her own accord. So I speak from personal experience here. When you loved like Bond loved Vesper and suddenly she is gone, you have a huge hole in your heart and you wonder if you will ever meet someone you could truly love again or was that all you get, and that you have been condemned going forward to a life of debauchery and/or loneliness.

    That said, I can truly say I didn't settle for my wife.
  • SirHenryLeeChaChingSirHenryLeeChaChing
    Posts: 3,494
    SirHenryLeeChaChing wrote:
    jackdagger wrote:
    0BradyM0Bondfanatic7 wrote:
    And yet, in FYEO and DAF Irma (you know, the one who actually killed TRACY!!!) is absent. What a crock.

    Didn't that actress die right after filing OHMSS?

    Anyway, I'm still going to say Tracy, despite DAF. That's just because she's been mentioned so much since, and every time you can really see how much Bond was affected by it. It's too soon to tell with Vesper, we'll see if she's is mentioned in Skyfall, or in any movies after. :)

    Yes, Ilse Steppat died 4 days after the international release of OHMSS. They would have definitely needed to hire another actress to reprise the role.

    I would have to say Vesper, for the reason others have mentioned. Although Tracy's name never comes up in DAF, the viewer is left to assume her murder is the reason Bond is so hot to find and kill Blofeld. FYEO was a touching nod with her gravestone and Moore's solemn expression, but Vesper's name comes up numerous times in QOS and Bond's mission to find out what drove her to suicide is obvious even to someone who might not have seen CR first. You could argue that he married Tracy and not Vesper, but CR made it pretty clear that Bond wanted to marry Vesper. In book timeline, I always thought that one of Bond's motivations to marry Tracy was because he didn't want to lose another woman he truly loved and would have been content with. Before I married my wife, I had a Vesper of my own who chose to leave this world on her own accord. So I speak from personal experience here. When you loved like Bond loved Vesper and suddenly she is gone, you have a huge hole in your heart and you wonder if you will ever meet someone you could truly love again or was that all you get, and that you have been condemned going forward to a life of debauchery and/or loneliness.

    That said, I can truly say I didn't settle for my wife.

  • GrindermanGrinderman
    Posts: 165
    0BradyM0Bondfanatic7 wrote:
    ....... I am still mystified about what he means when Bond says to M "you were right about Vesper".

    Hi everybody! Long time listener, first time caller.

    Had to chime in to answer fanatic's question. I always thought the "you were right" comment referred to the scene near the end of Casino Royale where Bond is on the boat, speaking to M on his cell and going over the case. Bond makes some comment about Vesper not mattering anymore (the cool 'the bitch is dead' line lifted from the book). M then points out to Bond the possibility that Vesper might have actually acted to save Bond's life by making a deal with Quantum. M even says something like "she must have known she was going to her death", or something like that.

    Even though Bond doesn't buy that theory at the time, by the end of Solace - and especially after interrogating Vesper's ex-boyfriend - he comes to see that M's theory was right, and he fully understands the sacrifice Vesper made for him.

    Why Bond then leaves her love knot necklace in the snow, especially after being convinced of Vesper's love for him, is the really puzzling part of that ending. If she didn't love him and really did betray him, then anyone would be expected to chuck that necklace into the nearest sewage drain. But given that he finaly realized the she did love him, and made the ultimate sacrifice for him, wouldn't he want to hang on to that necklace?



  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 41,011
    @Grinderman, perhaps Bond just came to terms with the fact that he now has his answer - that Vesper did love him and did what she did for him - and the best way for him to move on was for him to ditch the necklace.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    edited June 2012 Posts: 28,694
    Grinderman wrote:
    0BradyM0Bondfanatic7 wrote:
    ....... I am still mystified about what he means when Bond says to M "you were right about Vesper".

    Hi everybody! Long time listener, first time caller.

    Had to chime in to answer fanatic's question. I always thought the "you were right" comment referred to the scene near the end of Casino Royale where Bond is on the boat, speaking to M on his cell and going over the case. Bond makes some comment about Vesper not mattering anymore (the cool 'the bitch is dead' line lifted from the book). M then points out to Bond the possibility that Vesper might have actually acted to save Bond's life by making a deal with Quantum. M even says something like "she must have known she was going to her death", or something like that.

    Even though Bond doesn't buy that theory at the time, by the end of Solace - and especially after interrogating Vesper's ex-boyfriend - he comes to see that M's theory was right, and he fully understands the sacrifice Vesper made for him.

    Why Bond then leaves her love knot necklace in the snow, especially after being convinced of Vesper's love for him, is the really puzzling part of that ending. If she didn't love him and really did betray him, then anyone would be expected to chuck that necklace into the nearest sewage drain. But given that he finaly realized the she did love him, and made the ultimate sacrifice for him, wouldn't he want to hang on to that necklace?



    That is what I have always thought, but was never sure as there was plenty of Bond/M dialogue that the statement could have pertained to. I think Bond realizes at the end that he appreciates all Vesper did for him, and her sacrifice, but just had to let her go and move on, because if he kept holding on it would eat away at him, so he let go of the necklace. I think he still secretly keeps her photograph though. :)
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    edited June 2012 Posts: 6,385
    Creasy47 wrote:
    @Grinderman, perhaps Bond just came to terms with the fact that he now has his answer - that Vesper did love him and did what she did for him - and the best way for him to move on was for him to ditch the necklace.

    Agreed. I also think that because he had seen the same necklace on Corinne, he realized that the necklace itself was part of Yusef's game with women and had even less value/meaning (and Vesper did remove it before she died).

    I still think Tracy's death has more impact than Vesper's. It is more tragic because, unlike Vesper, she is innocent of any wrongdoing.

    Aki's death is also very moving and underrated in the series for some reason.
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