Come on, guys! TND isn't all THAT bad.

1568101114

Comments

  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    Brosnan is at his best in TND, it is a step up from Goldeneye even. Definitely stronger; it's my fav of his portrayals.

    I don't have answers for you, Benny. But I do still enjoy the film a lot, yes.
  • edited August 2014 Posts: 654
    "Tomorrow Never Dies"-Boring Or Not?

    TND was the third Bondfilm I ever saw, and I think it was after that one I fell in love with the character. It has all the right elements, but it does'nt do much with them. I think Carver is pretty lame exept for the last 30 minutes of the movie. Stamper is okay. I don't like him THAT much, but he's okay. Wai Lin is terrible. I really don't like her at all! Teri Hatcher on the other hand is wonderful in it! I've read the article in MI6 Confidential about the relation between Brosnan and her under the shooting but they sell it so well! Dr. Kauffman is like the weirdest character in a Bondfilm ever, but you still gotta love him, right?! The Brozz is at his best here. I've always thought that TND was a better version of GE, not plot-wise, but otherwise such as Pierce's acting and such. The score is bloody brilliant! If you could re-score GE with TND's music, GE would be 100 times better! But, as I said: It's a very basic 007-movie. Nothing really outstanding, exept for the score maybe.... So there you have it: Tomorrow Never Dies is'nt all that bad!
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,800
    Benny wrote: »
    A question that struck me, and it's probably been asked before, but Bond uses the GPS decoder with the help of Dr.Greenwalt to locate the actual location of the HMS Devonshire. How does Wai Lin find it?
    She had access to the exact location of the fighter jet flyovers.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,976
    I surprised myself last time I watched TND by not loving it as much as I remembered, so I think I'm going to watch it by itself tonight! I may do a live chat with it. I hope it'll sit much better with me.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,800
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    I surprised myself last time I watched TND by not loving it as much as I remembered,
    The ONLY part of the film I ever had any problem with is the car park chase. I would have had Pierce do it all without even so much as a smile- just a kind of pissed-off concentration. But, like with Felix in the end of LTK, sometimes they film stuff out of sequence & forget the context of a scene.

  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,976
    That's what messes up the continuity. I couldn't imagine being in charge of recalling such small things like that during the development of a film that isn't filmed in sequence like that.

    I don't remember what I didn't like last time. Maybe the finale? This time I'll tackle it with the same attitude I have when I put on DAD.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,800
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    I don't remember what I didn't like last time. Maybe the finale?
    I absolutely LOVE how Bond saves Lin, with the big romantic music swelling...
    *choke, sniff*

    :)>-
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,976
    @chrisisall, I quite enjoy that, as well. It's a bit cheesy, but I love the heightening of the music when Lin checks her magazine, and the two guys are approaching. She brushes back her sweaty hair, gives a few quick breaths, pops out, and takes them down. I could've done with that awkward looking slo-mo, but other than that, it's awesome.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    Actually, it is still one of my favorite films. I enjoy all of it (except Terri's performance). A fun, fine Bond outing.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,800
    There was a time, before I joined this forum, and before I re-discovered Dalton, when TND was my favourite Bond movie of all.
    Even now it's in my top five. I feel Spottiswoode achieved a pleasant blend of serious & fun in this entry. It was Brosnan's YOLT but with a more realistic means to a similar goal for the villain. IMO.
  • Mark_HazzardMark_Hazzard Classified
    Posts: 127
    I have a rather sentimental attachment to this film, since it was the first Bond film I've ever seen. Therefore I usually rank this one within my top-10, if not top-3, if not my favourite.

    One could argue that TND really tries too much to 'tick all the boxes of the formula', but then again it does succeed very well in almost every department. As a kid this film introduced me to the world of the charming, sophisticated secret agent who was pitted against twisted villains and surrounded by beautiful women. The music score was brilliant, no-one can deny that. The Kaufman scene was a masterpiece and Bond uses his wit and improvisation to get out of nearly every situation.

    Carver could have been a bit more menacing. Over the years I've really become a huge fan of Alec Trevelyan in GE, but his character was more fleshed out due to a better background story. Only if Carver could have had that, maybe by exploiting the 'love-triangle' with Paris more, like that he was around already at the time when Bond was 'dating Paris'. Stamper could have been a bit more fleshed out as well. I thought he was actually a nice reference to Fleming's (neo)-nazi characters from the books, rather than Red Grant in FRWL. Then again, it would have been totally politically incorrect to have such a character wander around in modern-day Germany.

    The car scene is for me still the best one in the series. Plausible gadgetry, save for the saw underneath the BMW logo, although I keep telling friends it works with a built-in sonar-system to detect obstacles and reach the correct height... Still, the 750iL isn't a submarine or capable of invisibility.

    @Benny
    A question that struck me, and it's probably been asked before, but Bond uses the GPS decoder with the help of Dr.Greenwalt to locate the actual location of the HMS Devonshire. How does Wai Lin find it?

    Well that's rather straightforward: Wai Lin uses the latest transcript from the Chinese Air Force and GPS-location of the aircraft that was destroyed.
  • MooseWithFleasMooseWithFleas Philadelphia
    Posts: 3,369
    TND is a great afternoon flick. Standard Bond film that covers all the elements, not really wowing in many areas, but also not disappointing. Wei Lin is the best part of the movie for me. Stamper is a rehashed henchmen, but works. Dr. Kaufmann is tremendous.

    The finale is one of the weaker efforts which pushes it to the 2nd half of the rankings for me.
  • Posts: 15,123
    TND isn't bad, but it is maybe the most disappointing Bond movie.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    Ludovico wrote: »
    TND isn't bad, but it is maybe the most disappointing Bond movie.

    How?

  • The most disappointing Bond film for me is either DAD or QOS.

    I was (and still am) a big fan of the Brosnan era. I loved GE and TWINE and I quite liked TND as well. And Die Another Day had so much going for it. The story with Bond being captured seemed really interesting and like nothing we'd ever seen in a Bond film. The new Bond girl was not only really fit, she was being played by an Oscar nominated actress. Brosnan (one of the best Bonds ever) was back and it was being written by the same people who wrote TWINE. There was going to be a car chase with a Jag and an Aston. It was the 20th Bond film and it was going to be a big celebration with loving nods to the past. I was really excited, so for DAD to turn out so crap was very disappointing for me.

    QOS was the direct sequel to the amazing Casino Royale, it was going to pick up directly where that film left of. There was going to be a new sinister organisation (although I was actually disappointed that it wasn't SPECTRE as that's what I thought they were hinting towards in CR*), an epic car chase, loads of exotic locations and there was tons of money behind it, the budget was bigger than any other Bond film. And it turned out to be a pretentious, disappointing mess of a film imo. I was so let down because I thought after CR the standards had been raised, I was expecting something so much better.

    I wasn't born when DAF came out and I actually think I saw it before OHMSS, otherwise that would probably be most the disappointing for me.

    *I didn't know about all the legal issues back then
  • AceHoleAceHole Belgium, via Britain
    Posts: 1,731
    I think someone else on here said it best - TND is Bond on 'autopilot'.

    Together with Octopussy it's probably the most average and 'by the numbers' 007 film out there.
  • Posts: 11,425
    AceHole wrote: »
    I think someone else on here said it best - TND is Bond on 'autopilot'.

    Together with Octopussy it's probably the most average and 'by the numbers' 007 film out there.

    OP is a masterpiece.

    TND is the best of Brosnan's 4 poor efforts as Bond.
  • Posts: 15,123
    Murdock wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    TND isn't bad, but it is maybe the most disappointing Bond movie.

    How?

    by being not as good as it could have been. Great actor for the villain, but the villain ends up light weight. Paris Carver is both miscast and underused, then completely disregarded. Stamper is a clone of Grant on steroid. Not bad per se, just nothing outstanding or good. Like people mentioned here, it is maybe the most by the number Bond.
  • Posts: 1,492
    Getafix wrote: »
    AceHole wrote: »
    I think someone else on here said it best - TND is Bond on 'autopilot'.

    Together with Octopussy it's probably the most average and 'by the numbers' 007 film out there.

    OP is a masterpiece.

    TND is the best of Brosnan's 4 poor efforts as Bond.

    Agreed. Got it in one.

    Might actually be worth saving if your house is on fire.

  • Posts: 11,189
    OP is a good movie but is it really a "masterpiece"?

    Agreed though it has more class than TND.
  • Posts: 1,492
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    OP is a good movie but is it really a "masterpiece"?

    Agreed though it has more class than TND.

    Yep, next question.

  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,976
    GE - all-around great film.
    TND - great for action and stunts.
    TWINE - great revenge flick, wonderful PTS.
    DAD - good for sitting down and watching the most outlandish Bond you'll ever see.

    Oh, and OP is definitely a masterpiece. ;)
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    Getafix wrote: »
    AceHole wrote: »
    I think someone else on here said it best - TND is Bond on 'autopilot'.

    Together with Octopussy it's probably the most average and 'by the numbers' 007 film out there.

    OP is a masterpiece.

    TND is the best of Brosnan's 4 poor efforts as Bond.
  • mcdonbbmcdonbb deep in the Heart of Texas
    Posts: 4,116
    I haven't read all the posts but TND is just a straight forward Bond film... what we needed after the whimpy GE. Brosnan did better ...film looked better etc. Just a good old Bond film. Never understood why all the hate.
  • Posts: 1,596
    A few of my thoughts:
    - Probably Brosnan's best performance. He filled out a bit and his physical presence is better and he feels much more at ease here.
    - TND is just a good Bond flick. It doesn't try to do anything outrageous or different to subvert the formula. It just follows the formula but it follows it WELL. And I see nothing wrong with that.

    I see it as a slice of entertainment. Not the best Bond film but my second favorite Pierce film for sure. Pryce is excellent and underrated as Carver, Wai Lin is the only Bond girl in the whole franchise that convincingly kicks ass, Brosnan is great, the action sequences are great, and Arnold's score is pretty good too.

    I'll always be one of TND's defenders. And Brosnan as a whole.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,800
    - TND is just a good Bond flick. It doesn't try to do anything outrageous or different to subvert the formula. It just follows the formula but it follows it WELL. Pryce is excellent and underrated as Carver, Wai Lin is the only Bond girl in the whole franchise that convincingly kicks ass, Brosnan is great, the action sequences are great, and Arnold's score is pretty good too.
    Yep. Agreed wholeheartedly.
  • Posts: 1,596
    chrisisall wrote: »
    Yep. Agreed wholeheartedly.

    Nice to see us agreeing on something! Long live TND.
    :-bd
  • Posts: 75
    TND is lazy and unhappy, especially after the crisp and muscular GOLDENEYE which used Pierce to best effect - he is full of life and hope for his tenure. By TND, a shoddy rushed and troubled production which would echo in Craig's second effort, he is visibly depressed and unengaged.

    TND plays like one of those too-cool-for-school updates of 60s TV shows that were "popular" in the late 90s - such as Lost in Space, Brady Bunch, Mod Squad, etc. It is equally clumsy and charmless. It has none of the assurance of Goldeneye and it's a mistake to consider it the best Brosnan. It might even be the worst. It is certainly the most unhappy and depressing.
  • Posts: 1,596
    I feel the complete opposite. TND might not be Brosnan's best film but it is certainly the least depressing.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    Pierce's first 3 Bond films are fun and enjoyable. Maybe they don't make good Bond movies but that subjective and an opinion I heavily disagree with.
Sign In or Register to comment.