Come on, guys! TND isn't all THAT bad.

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Comments

  • mcdonbbmcdonbb deep in the Heart of Texas
    Posts: 4,116
    Brosnan's performance in GE for me lacked any real punch. Listen to or compare the Bond James Bond line of GE to TND to get my point. General audiences favored TND and it was the Bond film we needed then. We needed familiarity. Remember we were trying to reintroduce JB at that time. TND had just enough drama and just the needed amount of tradition at that time. yes GE revived the series but TND connected with audiencs far better. PB didn't get the talent that Craig has worked with but it was PB that revived the series after the 80s and the Dalton B grade movies almost killed it... at least made Bond laughable. PB made Bond cool again ...at that time ...DCexpanded that and Bond gained his credibility and respect. Anybody remember in the 80s how everyone just wanted Bond to die?? Now we just want more and no one fan or not questions Bond existence. So show TND some respect ...it kept Bond alive.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,800
    I feel the complete opposite. TND might not be Brosnan's best film but it is certainly the least depressing.
    I love GE to death and enjoy TWINE immensely, but TND is my go-to movie for pure semi-OTT Bond enjoyment.
  • Posts: 1,596
    GoldenEye is, in my opinion, easily the better film of the two and bests it in almost all categories. However, Brosnan's performance is not one of them in my opinion. I think he's considerably better in TND.

    I'll defend TND with a shotgun.

    I'll weakly defend DAD as not being a complete waste of time. I never regret watching it.
  • Posts: 15,123
    Jonathan Pryce was an inspired casting, maybe the best casting of the whole Brosnan era. But the role of Elliot Carver was not the most inspired.
  • Posts: 11,425
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Jonathan Pryce was an inspired casting, maybe the best casting of the whole Brosnan era. But the role of Elliot Carver was not the most inspired.

    I think Pryce was probably one of the best casting decisions of the entire Brosnan era. Infact, with the exception of Paris, most of the cast is really pretty good.

    As others have pointed out, TND is not a flashy or complex movie. It has a simple, coherent plot and does what it does without a lot of fuss. I see it as quite similar to QoS in some respects - quite fast paced and snappy. Not a classic, but a decent effort. It is far and away the best film of the Brosnan era. Brosnan is at his least annoying, and the film has a nice look - quite stylish, whereas GE looks like it's stuck in the 80s (in a bad way), and DAD just looks naff.
  • SuperheroSithSuperheroSith SE London
    Posts: 578
    I don't mind TND that much. It's just not the best. I like the BMW chase (who doesn't?) and Dr. Kaufman is hilarious and menacing at the same time, but Carver's plan is ridiculous and the bond girls are weak.
  • MayDayDiVicenzoMayDayDiVicenzo Here and there
    Posts: 5,080
    Elliot Carver is one of my favourite villains. In fact, with the exception of DAD, I think all of the Brosnan era villains are excellent.

    There's something about Carver that is very reminiscent of Max Zorin.
  • Posts: 15,123
    I don't mind TND that much. It's just not the best. I like the BMW chase (who doesn't?) and Dr. Kaufman is hilarious and menacing at the same time, but Carver's plan is ridiculous and the bond girls are weak.

    I don't like the BMW car chace. Bond playing with a remote car in a parking. Pushing buttons smiling all the way, minutes after the death of a loved one. By far the weakest action scene.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,800
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Pushing buttons smiling all the way, minutes after the death of a loved one.
    He's a pathological compartmentaliser, don't you know.
  • Agent007391Agent007391 Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, Start
    Posts: 7,854
    Ludovico wrote: »
    I don't mind TND that much. It's just not the best. I like the BMW chase (who doesn't?) and Dr. Kaufman is hilarious and menacing at the same time, but Carver's plan is ridiculous and the bond girls are weak.

    I don't like the BMW car chace. Bond playing with a remote car in a parking. Pushing buttons smiling all the way, minutes after the death of a loved one. By far the weakest action scene.

    Survival is a great reason to push your emotions aside for ten minutes, though the smiling that he did while playing with the car... A little much.
  • Posts: 15,123
    Push emotions aside does not equate displaying completely contradictory emotions. TND has a few great action scenes. But not that one.
  • Posts: 908
    Ludovico wrote: »
    I don't mind TND that much. It's just not the best. I like the BMW chase (who doesn't?) and Dr. Kaufman is hilarious and menacing at the same time, but Carver's plan is ridiculous and the bond girls are weak.

    I don't like the BMW car chace. Bond playing with a remote car in a parking. Pushing buttons smiling all the way, minutes after the death of a loved one. By far the weakest action scene.

    I second that. This behaviour of Bond is tasteless and most of all weakens the thrust of the scene before. Also to launch the car into the travel shop is pure recklessness,prone to hurt ONLY innocents (something for the Brosnan Bonds is way more guilty then his predecessors, at least in his first two outings)
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,800
    Hey- he beeped the horn!
  • edited August 2014 Posts: 11,189
    I admit to enjoying Pryce's hammy performance as Carver.

    Although the dialogue leading to his death is similar-ish to that in The Running Man (the whole "giving people what they want" speech).

    It's an average film at best. There's some good scenes early on involving Dench and Palmer, the pace is lively but it's all quite hollow. The action sequences are plentiful but they lack the punch of those in GE and as a result comes off as cheesy and generic quite a lot of the time.

  • Posts: 15,123
    Pryce was great, he did miracles with a rather mediocre role. Not the most threatening villain, but at least he was entertaining. And I loved how he ridiculed Way Lin's martial artist(ic?) skills.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,718
    you guys made me want to watch TND again :) so I'm going to do a GE + TND double feature tonight :D
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,800
    you guys made me want to watch TND again :) so I'm going to do a GE + TND double feature tonight :D
    Can I come over?
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,718
    chrisisall wrote: »
    you guys made me want to watch TND again :) so I'm going to do a GE + TND double feature tonight :D
    Can I come over?

    of course, there's beer and chips for anyone who wants to join in :)

  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,800
    I shall need directions from Massachusetts....
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,718
    chrisisall wrote: »
    I shall need directions from Massachusetts....

    I'll use the TARDIS to pick you up

  • MayDayDiVicenzoMayDayDiVicenzo Here and there
    Posts: 5,080
    Calvin Dyson recently posted this regarding Paris Carver in TND.

    It has been said that Terri Hatcher's character should have been Sylvia Trench, from DN and FRWL, instead!
    Personally, I think that's an excellent idea.

    http://fb.me/1mKXPu4d7
  • Trench was Connery's bit on the side, she would have been out of place in TND.

    At one point, Carvers wife was going to be Natalya from Goldeneye. I think that would have been a great idea and her death would have been really sad because we'd already gotten to know her and seen her with Bond in the last film, plus she was miles better than Paris.
  • edited August 2014 Posts: 11,189
    Birdleson wrote: »
    I thought Terri Hatcher was fine, I don't get the criticism. Not a Natalya fan at all.

    Hatcher is pretty bad. I cringe at the lines:

    "I made my bed...you don't sleep in it anymore"
    "That's it? Go home?"
    "It's the easiest way to get in...don't argue with me James"
  • Posts: 6,396
    Hatcher is part of the Triumvirate of Awful American Bond Girls along with Richards and Berry.
  • I liked Denise Richards. Christmas was a fun character, she gave a decent performance, helped move the story along and she was really fit. One of fhe hottest Bond girls (shame she had loads of surgery and ruined her face).

    And if you want an awful American Bond girl, look no further than Tanya Roberts.
  • Posts: 15,123
    Christmas may have been an ok character, but she was horribly miscast. Paris Carver was mediocre because poorly written/conceived, casting Teri Hatcher was a symptom more than a cause.
  • MayDayDiVicenzoMayDayDiVicenzo Here and there
    edited August 2014 Posts: 5,080
    I always liked Paris, and thought it was quite saddening when she was killed off. She just got in with the wrong people.

    Yeah, Denis Richards was totally unbelievable as a Nuclear physicist (or anything that comes even close to the field of science), and her acting was questionable at times, but she was good eye candy and surprisingly goes well with Brosnan.

    Tanya I never had a problem with.

    It's just Mary Goodnight and Jinx that really grind my gears.
  • Posts: 11,189
    Pam is Pussy Galore in comparison to those two.
  • edited August 2014 Posts: 11,119
    TheBondFan wrote:
    Tomorrow Never Dies discussion. Positive and Negative comments are appreciated.
    TND is my favorite film in the series. I do not really know why, it just is. Probably the mix of gadgets and a good Bond along with a nice story. TMWTGG is a close second.

    As a kid I loved the film. It had the real James Bond music. It had one hell of a parking garage car chase. It had an older Blofeld-esque villain.

    Still, when compared to GoldenEye, TND has the same "look and feel". It tried to hard to be a generic Bond incarnation. I actually don't know why fans think GoldenEye is Brosnan's best, when actually all of Brosnan's Bond films had this generic feel.

    EON didn't try to reboot the franchise with Brosnan. Instead they wanted to get into "safe financial haven" again. Brosnan's Bond films had to feel like a perfect mix of Connery and Moore. The net result however, were generic Bond films. The fact that GE is considered Brosnan's best has more to do with the return of Bond after 6 years and all those high anticipations of the fans.

    Like GoldenEye, also TND is actually as a film not that special.

    Just look to Casino Royale and Skyfall and one knows what was wrong with the Brosnan films. Can YOU see Daniel Craig driving a tank?? Actually, that whole tank chase tried too hard to outperform older car/boat chases from previous films. I think the era of Craig shows not only good Bond films, but also perfect stand-alone spy thrillers with stories that usually have deeper meaning and themes underneath it.

    May Craig be with us for a very very long time!
  • Posts: 1,596
    Hatcher is part of the Triumvirate of Awful American Bond Girls along with Richards and Berry.

    I like Paris a lot more than Jinx and Jones. But I agree, she's not great.

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