SKYFALL: FANS' REACTIONS - GUARANTEED SPOILERS

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Comments

  • Posts: 11,189
    JBFan626 wrote:
    BAIN123 wrote:
    JBFan626 wrote:
    BAIN123 wrote:
    @JBFan626. Do you feel the film was over-hyped at all?

    It's a Bond film so it will be hyped on a high scale no matter what. I'm not sure how a film can be over-hyped. By this do you mean the payoff wasn't as good as the hype?

    There are a few people on here that feel the film doesn't deserve the level of praise its received. I suppose I'm asking if you are one of them?

    I've been a way for a bit, trying to avoid spoilers, so I haven't heard too many of those criticisms just yet - though I did read one funny take on how the ending is like Home Alone. I got a laugh out of that.

    Me? No way, I thoroughly enjoyed it! If anything, it exceeded my expectations. I posted my review yesterday a few pages back, but nobody responded :( ... I'm only kidding. The silence must mean everyone is in consensus with my opinion! ;-)

    I agree, I've now seen all the Bond films in the cinema since 1997 and, while I enjoyed the others, SF was the only one I came out physically buzzing.
  • SandySandy Somewhere in Europe
    Posts: 4,012
    JBFan626 wrote:
    BAIN123 wrote:
    JBFan626 wrote:
    BAIN123 wrote:
    @JBFan626. Do you feel the film was over-hyped at all?

    It's a Bond film so it will be hyped on a high scale no matter what. I'm not sure how a film can be over-hyped. By this do you mean the payoff wasn't as good as the hype?

    There are a few people on here that feel the film doesn't deserve the level of praise its received. I suppose I'm asking if you are one of them?

    I've been a way for a bit, trying to avoid spoilers, so I haven't heard too many of those criticisms just yet - though I did read one funny take on how the ending is like Home Alone. I got a laugh out of that.

    Me? No way, I thoroughly enjoyed it! If anything, it exceeded my expectations. I posted my review yesterday a few pages back, but nobody responded :( ... I'm only kidding. The silence must mean everyone is in consensus with my opinion! ;-)

    I read your review but this thread was running so wild it put me off the mood to comment it :-bd
  • Posts: 1,497
    Thanks Sandy :)

    @BAIN123 - now the eternal question for you, how does it stand up to the unshakable Goldeneye???
  • DRESSED_TO_KILLDRESSED_TO_KILL Suspended
    Posts: 260
    dear god you skyfall lovers really are gullible to mainstream culture. Skyfall was such a sloppy poorly written story with kiddy action and a lousy villain. And what moron felt it was necessary to add the bi-sexual.undertones to Silva and Bond? Seriously Bond is captured tied n a chair knowing his life could be taken any moment and he says, "what makes you think this is my first time?". wow what a disgrace to Ian Flemings and Bonds history. Barbara Brocolli and EON made skyfall so politically correct it makes me sick. I was expecting a Casino Royale 2.0 , instead I got a subpar kiddy cliched generic action movie geared and aimed for a dumb downed mass of illiterate slobs of people who couldn't follow a good story and plot if they tried. In my opinion EON has sold out and just appeases the appetites of casual movie goers.
  • edited November 2012 Posts: 11,189
    JBFan626 wrote:
    Thanks Sandy :)

    @BAIN123 - now the eternal question for you, how does it stand up to the unshakable Goldeneye???

    It knocked GE out of the top 5 (bet you couldn't imagine hearing that from me :p )

    The question is whether it will hold up on repeated viewings. I saw it for a second time a couple of days after my first viewing and didn't enjoy it QUITE as much.

    Should be seeing it for a third (and probably final) time on Wednesday. Given that its been over two weeks since I last saw it I'm probably going to be in a better position to judge.

    For now though its EASILY top 10 stuff.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    edited November 2012 Posts: 16,351
    dear god you skyfall lovers really are gullible to mainstream culture. Skyfall was such a sloppy poorly written story with kiddy action and a lousy villain. And what moron felt it was necessary to add the bi-sexual.undertones to Silva and Bond? Seriously Bond is captured tied n a chair knowing his life could be taken any moment and he says, "what makes you think this is my first time?". wow what a disgrace to Ian Flemings and Bonds history. Barbara Brocolli and EON made skyfall so politically correct it makes me sick. I was expecting a Casino Royale 2.0 , instead I got a subpar kiddy cliched generic action movie geared and aimed for a dumb downed mass of illiterate slobs of people who couldn't follow a good story and plot if they tried. In my opinion EON has sold out and just appeases the appetites of casual movie goers.

    Just because you hated it doesn't mean everyone has too. We can have opinions too. Stop trying to ram yours down everybody's throat and trying to make us hate it!
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Murdock wrote:
    dear god you skyfall lovers really are gullible to mainstream culture. Skyfall was such a sloppy poorly written story with kiddy action and a lousy villain. And what moron felt it was necessary to add the bi-sexual.undertones to Silva and Bond? Seriously Bond is captured tied n a chair knowing his life could be taken any moment and he says, "what makes you think this is my first time?". wow what a disgrace to Ian Flemings and Bonds history. Barbara Brocolli and EON made skyfall so politically correct it makes me sick. I was expecting a Casino Royale 2.0 , instead I got a subpar kiddy cliched generic action movie geared and aimed for a dumb downed mass of illiterate slobs of people who couldn't follow a good story and plot if they tried. In my opinion EON has sold out and just appeases the appetites of casual movie goers.

    Just because you hated it doesn't mean everyone has too. We can have opinions too. Stop trying to ram yours down everybody's throat and trying to make us hate it!
    Just flag @TouchMyButton's comments and ignore him for the pustule he is. His desperation for attention would be funny if it wasn't so utterly pathetic.
  • Posts: 1,497
    BAIN123 wrote:
    JBFan626 wrote:
    Thanks Sandy :)

    @BAIN123 - now the eternal question for you, how does it stand up to the unshakable Goldeneye???

    It knocked GE out of the top 5 (bet you couldn't imagine hearing that from me :p )
    The question is whether it will hold up on repeated viewings. I saw it for a second time a couple of days after my first viewing and didn't enjoy it QUITE as much.

    Should be seeing it for a third (and probably final) time on Wednesday. Given that its been over two weeks since I last saw it I'm probably going to be in a better position to judge.

    For now though its EASILY top 10 stuff.

    Heresy I say!

    I'm still processing it and will need to see it again to assess. I'm ranking it about #7 - but only because there is so much competition: OHMSS, GF, FRWL, DN... But I'm actually torn about how it stacks up with those. The great thing about Skyfall for me, is that the film transcended my impression of what a good Bond film should be. Those classic Connery films set a template; a standard, that I think is impossible to create, simply for the fact of the times they were made in. But I feel like Skyfall successfully takes the series in a credible new direction: there is a nice balance of themes and subtext, but still with the excitement of an edge-of-your seat Bond adventure. Adventure is the key word here: the story focuses more on Bond's movement through different places, picking up new clues, being thrust into some unforeseen circumstance. Quantum of Solace, while jampacked full of globetrotting, didn't take enough time to establish those senses of geography and Bond's place in them.

    ...But I did have an initial excitement for CR in the theatre, which soon wore thin after repeated viewings, so we'll see...

    Part of my unexplained love of DAF is the fact that it is so rididulous, YOLT too, that I'm always entertained when I watch it. The one-liners alone make up for the sometimes lack of reason. I wonder if SF will hold a long lasting entertainment value after repeat viewings? It is afterall, pretty dark through a lot of it.
  • DRESSED_TO_KILLDRESSED_TO_KILL Suspended
    Posts: 260
    Im not seeking attention, I am seeking a refund back from EON though
  • edited November 2012 Posts: 11,189
    JBFan626 wrote:
    BAIN123 wrote:
    JBFan626 wrote:
    Thanks Sandy :)

    @BAIN123 - now the eternal question for you, how does it stand up to the unshakable Goldeneye???

    It knocked GE out of the top 5 (bet you couldn't imagine hearing that from me :p )
    The question is whether it will hold up on repeated viewings. I saw it for a second time a couple of days after my first viewing and didn't enjoy it QUITE as much.

    Should be seeing it for a third (and probably final) time on Wednesday. Given that its been over two weeks since I last saw it I'm probably going to be in a better position to judge.

    For now though its EASILY top 10 stuff.

    Heresy I say!

    I'm still processing it and will need to see it again to assess. I'm ranking it about #7 - but only because there is so much competition: OHMSS, GF, FRWL, DN... But I'm actually torn about how it stacks up with those. The great thing about Skyfall for me, is that the film transcended my impression of what a good Bond film should be. Those classic Connery films set a template; a standard, that I think is impossible to create, simply for the fact of the times they were made in. But I feel like Skyfall successfully takes the series in a credible new direction: there is a nice balance of themes and subtext, but still with the excitement of an edge-of-your seat Bond adventure. Adventure is the key word here: the story focuses more on Bond's movement through different places, picking up new clues, being thrust into some unforeseen circumstance. Quantum of Solace, while jampacked full of globetrotting, didn't take enough time to establish those senses of geography and Bond's place in them.

    ...But I did have an initial excitement for CR in the theatre, which soon wore thin after repeated viewings, so we'll see...

    Part of my unexplained love of DAF is the fact that it is so rididulous, YOLT too, that I'm always entertained when I watch it. The one-liners alone make up for the sometimes lack of reason. I wonder if SF will hold a long lasting entertainment value after repeat viewings? It is afterall, pretty dark through a lot of it.

    It's funny. For me Royale was a "slow burner" of a film. On first viewing I enjoyed it but wasn't sure where to place it. The film just seemed so different to everything that had gone on before. It wasn't until the second time I really liked it.

    Regarding DAF one of the problems I have with it is that, while it does have quite a lot of witty dialogue, there's little in the way of actual tension. It all feels a bit too...joyful/comic/goofy to me if that makes sense. I saw some of it the other week on the Bond movie channel (it ran for a month in the UK).
  • @BAIN123 See, with me it was sort of the opposite.I really liked CR at first but my opinion of it has changed over the years, it's not even in my top 10 anymore.

    I do agree with you. SF is the first film since GE where I came out of the cinema really buzzing (I really enjoyed TWINE and CR too but not on the same level).
    aimed for a dumb downed mass of illiterate slobs of people who couldn't follow a good story and plot if they tried.

    So everyone who liked it is an illterate slob? Rigghht. And you've already proven you're not exactly clever so I wouldn't have attack other peoples intelligence (especially since we're talking about if we liked a smegging film or not).
  • edited November 2012 Posts: 11,189
    IGNORE DRESSED_TO_KILL. You can tell by the way he writes he can't be taken seriously.
  • edited November 2012 Posts: 1,492
    double post
  • edited November 2012 Posts: 4,813
    So just to clarify.... if you like Skyfall, this guy thinks you're part of a dumb downed mass of illiterate slobs.

    im07qs.jpg

    Seems legit. :-bd
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    @Master_Dahark I didn't know "the situation" was within our ranks? =))
  • Murdock wrote:
    dear god you skyfall lovers really are gullible to mainstream culture. Skyfall was such a sloppy poorly written story with kiddy action and a lousy villain. And what moron felt it was necessary to add the bi-sexual.undertones to Silva and Bond? Seriously Bond is captured tied n a chair knowing his life could be taken any moment and he says, "what makes you think this is my first time?". wow what a disgrace to Ian Flemings and Bonds history. Barbara Brocolli and EON made skyfall so politically correct it makes me sick. I was expecting a Casino Royale 2.0 , instead I got a subpar kiddy cliched generic action movie geared and aimed for a dumb downed mass of illiterate slobs of people who couldn't follow a good story and plot if they tried. In my opinion EON has sold out and just appeases the appetites of casual movie goers.

    Just because you hated it doesn't mean everyone has too. We can have opinions too. Stop trying to ram yours down everybody's throat and trying to make us hate it!
    Just flag @TouchMyButton's comments and ignore him for the pustule he is. His desperation for attention would be funny if it wasn't so utterly pathetic.

    Pustule, eh? Great one Brady! Just what I was thinking. Another point for the PA boys :D

    I hope you did flag that comment. Dimi's been telling him "enough is enough, you've made your point", for everyone to see, he's just digging his grave around here by hogging up the floor with the same comments and ignoring Dimi's instructions to cease and desist on that. I'll be sending some PM's of my own to the mods, had quite enough of his ad nauseum pissing on our parade.
  • edited November 2012 Posts: 4
    i was asked to elaborate on my thoughts of Skyfall only to then read a telling of the entire story rather than a review and if i read "great cinematography" one more time... find your own expressions stop just jumping on the Skyfall marketing machines phrases.
    As with any film, book, tv show, piece of art, there is no right or wrong, there is no good or bad, its all a personal thing and its also who you are with, what age you are, what day you've had, lots of things contribute to how you enjoy the show. I was 15 when Bond flew off the cliff edge and opened his Union Jack parachute in Spy Who Loved Me and i had goosebumps it was so good... and still is.
    Things have to change to keep up with the times and to keep up with the competition, back in the 60s and 70s there was no Mission Impossible, Bourne, Terminators, Die Hards etc etc so they have to do something different with Bond.
    I enjoyed it, came out and that was that, not really moved, excited or blown away like many people on this site was. The story was good but not great, the action was good but not great, the ending was good... you know the rest.
    To me, and as i said earlier its all a personal thing, it wasn't the huge bond movie i had been led to believe, I found it a bit ploddy, silly at times and lazy. I think Craig is a great bond but each one is at their particular moment and i expect when Bond number 7 comes along he will be lots of peoples favourite too. Going to throw a name into the hat here... Adam Rayner.
    I may enjoy it more the next time i catch it as i will know what to expect. I am pleased though that so many people are seeing it which will help the franchise continue.
  • Saw it in Imax on Friday, still digesting it... :-)

    Like both LTK and CR my first reaction when it was over was "Wow...that was so...different." It was obviously a great film, and had many great elements, but the combination of it being quite different from what I was expecting (and being extremely tired and feeling down when I saw it) means that I will probably render a full review after seeing it a second time. As I said, I felt the same way after first watching CR and it ended up becoming my favourite Bond film of all time.

    So a few quick points - we had to buy tickets two weeks in advance to get them, the earliest I've ever had to buy tickets for a film. The crowd was very excited, and the audience was one of the most diverse that I've ever seen, showing that Bond truly crosses all demographics and socio-economic groups. To our right were a group of young, "funky" looking early 20s black men, an Asian couple in their 60s or 70s sat behind us, there was a white couple in their 30s with two young boys in front of us (maybe 8 and 10), three skater-looking white male teens to their side, and an older black man and his Asian wife on our other side. Looking around the theatre there was pretty much every age and race represented, as well as people of different "groups" (i.e. hipsters, older blue-collar types, young "Fast and Furious" looking guys, senior citizens, art-student looking girls). Great to see so many people love Bond!

    My first impression was that from the very beginning Bond seems even more commanding and assured than before; a truly seasoned agent. M's decisions seem callous and although understandable they don't sit well with most viewers. Bond "enjoying death" but returning to England because of an unbreakable sense of duty was a great setup for mirroring/contrasting with Silva (who chose to ignore duty despite "knowing the rules"). Was the blond hair a nod to that?

    Silva was a great OTT villain who was the most memorable in a long time. His expertise at trying to un-nerve Bond (through advances and the killing of Severine) showed a great intellectual chess game, with Bond batting away everything that Silva threw at him. His flamboyance, his motivations, his interesting line delivery, and the truly unsettling prothesis-removal scene made him a great addition to classic villians. And his enterance - both the way it was shot and his delivery of the rat monologue - was pure Fleming and one of the best villain entrances ever.

    Marlohe gave a great performance as Severine - very sexy (except for the cigarette - as Dan Savage says the toxins come out everywhere, not just your mouth and skin - anyone who's ever been intimate with a smoker knows how unappealing it is and mouthwash can't do anything about that part of the body, let alone the skin and sweat) and her conflicted, forced conversation with Bond in the casino where she has trouble maintaining her "performance" was fantastic. Because of the buildup of the actress and the character in the advertising her early death was genuinely surprising, and being surprised in a Bond film is a good thing.

    As the film went on Eve really grew on me; she didn't show as much personality as Marlohe (or even Fields!) but that's likely a good thing - you wouldn't want her overshadowing the next leading ladies. The flirtation was just at the right level, and it's great to see a Moneypenny who will be more of a 2012 "administrative assistant" and bodyguard rather than 1960s secretary.

    Fiennes was fantastic, and I'm looking forward to the mutual respect between Mallory and Craig's Bond in future films that will, I hope, recall early Connery films (I never liked the more comic "exasperated M" of the later films). Dench was great, and the depth and fallibility of her M was a wonderful surprise, and it was nice to see how her relationship with Bond had matured. Kincaid was another great "ally", and I was pleased that the digging into Bond's backstory wasn't so huge to make him less of a huge hero figure - and the destruction of Skyfall, the DB5, and the death of Dench's M (giving him a chance to say goodbye to a parental figure in his home which he never got as a kid) was a great way of him being able to say goodbye to, and break from, his past and drop the baggage and become his own man.

    All around the performances were utterly fantastic and there was a wonderful depth of character and lots of nice psychological touches in the script. They could have gone overboard with it; I thought that it was nicely restrained.

    The cinematography was stunning, especially in Imax, and the "neon fight" and the Scotland sequences are, to me, visually iconic. The score was serviceable but, like everything Arnold did short of CR, there wasn't much of an identifying personality to the score. Loved the sweeping, romantic track (Severine?) and wished it was used more. Some good music, just not very memorable and nothing much said "Bond".

    The pacing was great and the direction very good (I was surprised when the movie was over, it seemed shorter and I gladly would sat through another 20 minutes). The dry humour was great, and all of the little nods to past films were nicely subtle in a way that didn't distract from the film.

    I likely won't try to place this film in my "list" until I see it again but it will likely be top five. Currently, my top three (favourite, not best) are CR, OHMSS, and FRWL.

    More in a week or two...
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,959
    I love how people feel that they have the right to demand a refund for a film.

    You have all of these options laid out in front of you: trailers, teaser, TV spots, stills, interviews, cast information, synopsis - hell, you can even watch the movie (or read the entire plot) the day of its release before seeing it in theaters. Yet, some still feel entitled to having their money back for a movie.

    If you consider yourself a Bond fan, yet you found SF to be so incredibly distasteful and horrid that you demand a refund, you really need to rethink your 'fan' position. Even those (pretty much everyone) that hated DAD still found some bits to like.
  • Posts: 1,407
    Creasy47 wrote:
    I love how people feel that they have the right to demand a refund for a film.

    You have all of these options laid out in front of you: trailers, teaser, TV spots, stills, interviews, cast information, synopsis - hell, you can even watch the movie (or read the entire plot) the day of its release before seeing it in theaters. Yet, some still feel entitled to having their money back for a movie.

    If you consider yourself a Bond fan, yet you found SF to be so incredibly distasteful and horrid that you demand a refund, you really need to rethink your 'fan' position. Even those (pretty much everyone) that hated DAD still found some bits to like.

    What an great post. This is very true. Even for a non Bond film if you really hated it, by no means should anyone be given their money back
  • Posts: 1,497
    bondbat007 wrote:
    Creasy47 wrote:
    I love how people feel that they have the right to demand a refund for a film.

    You have all of these options laid out in front of you: trailers, teaser, TV spots, stills, interviews, cast information, synopsis - hell, you can even watch the movie (or read the entire plot) the day of its release before seeing it in theaters. Yet, some still feel entitled to having their money back for a movie.

    If you consider yourself a Bond fan, yet you found SF to be so incredibly distasteful and horrid that you demand a refund, you really need to rethink your 'fan' position. Even those (pretty much everyone) that hated DAD still found some bits to like.

    What an great post. This is very true. Even for a non Bond film if you really hated it, by no means should anyone be given their money back

    Yes agreed. Thank you Creasy for saying that. Even with DAD, I was glad to have experienced that film in the cinema. I always go back to the basic character of what Bond is all about: the sophistication, the wit to outsmart his enemies, the enjoyment of a nice drink in some exotic beach location, the self-assured confidence, and so on and so on. Even in DAD, there were flashes of the character and it was still a thrill to enjoy these moments.


  • edited November 2012 Posts: 2,341
    I must say the Third Time is the charm. the movie is much better than QoS and it defines Craig's Bond. Characters are well developed here from Bond to M to Mallory to Eve and of course the villain.

    The plot is simple and easy to follow. The villain does not have no grandiose scheme to destroy the world or corner any market. Silva is a dastardly character but he is played with fun by Javier Bardem and a memorable villain. He is not larger than life that had been what we expect from Bond villains but this character has been so paradoied and imitated that the producers and writers run the risk of imitating the imitators. Silva is a good villain. Vent on revenge. Simple and to the point.

    the women are both good and sexy. Severine is a complex and tragic character, while Eve is just...likable and the kind of Bond girl not easily forgotten. Both actresses nailed the parts.

    Fans finally got to meet Q and Moneypenny. these staple characters had been missing since the Craig reboot and I think that now after three films the circle is complete. We say goodbye to Judi Dench. She has turned in great performances as Bond's boss since GE but now we have a passing of the torch. Dench was the only holdover from the Brosnan age and now after 7 films we got a fond (it not tragic) farewell to her.

    The 50 Anniversary was well handled by EON. they made a couple of references to earlier films just a quiet nod was all that was needed and handled well. The 1964 DB5 with the ejector seat and forward MGs...Q's mention of exploding pens...masterful. Sweet and a subtle nod.
    The Gun barrell placed at the end of the film with a homage to "50 Years" was a great way to start the closing credits.

  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    edited November 2012 Posts: 24,157
    dear god you skyfall lovers really are gullible to mainstream culture. Skyfall was such a sloppy poorly written story with kiddy action and a lousy villain. And what moron felt it was necessary to add the bi-sexual.undertones to Silva and Bond? Seriously Bond is captured tied n a chair knowing his life could be taken any moment and he says, "what makes you think this is my first time?". wow what a disgrace to Ian Flemings and Bonds history. Barbara Brocolli and EON made skyfall so politically correct it makes me sick. I was expecting a Casino Royale 2.0 , instead I got a subpar kiddy cliched generic action movie geared and aimed for a dumb downed mass of illiterate slobs of people who couldn't follow a good story and plot if they tried. In my opinion EON has sold out and just appeases the appetites of casual movie goers.

    Thank you for insulting the people who actively participate in this thread, stating their opinion but leaving out the illiterate comments (for isn't it "dumbed down" instead of "dumb downed"...?).

    Anyway, expect a PM. We work hard to keep things on a steady course, yet you insist on introducing another peak in venomous slander.
  • tqbtqb
    Posts: 1,022
    it's amazing how immature some people are here.
  • edited November 2012 Posts: 3,327
    Im not seeking attention, I am seeking a refund back from EON though
    I doubt you've even read a Fleming novel. Go back to watching DAD and leave this forum for the grown-ups......

  • Posts: 6,601
    I just feel like posting it in here, too.
    From deadline:

    James Bond At 50 Scores Big At The Academy But Could It Be The First To Get Best Picture Attention?
    For Lincoln Academy Award attention is expected but now MGM/Sony’s (with Eon) Skyfall, thanks to top reviews and the best business ever for a Bond, is also surprising pundits as an emerging Best Picture contender. The Goldwyn was packed to the rafters on Sunday night and producers Barbara Broccoli and Michael Wilson, star Daniel Craig and director Sam Mendes appeared for the Q&A. One member told me they felt it is definitely Best Picture material and that was seconded by another, a self-confessed Bond uber-fan who proclaimed it the best ever.

    Skyfall marks the 23rd Bond film out of the Broccoli factory and it is the first I can recall getting truly serious Oscar talk, not only for Best Picture but even in acting categories for supporting players Javier Bardem as the villainous Silva and Judi Dench with a particularly meaty turn as M this time around. It currently stands at an impressive 92% fresh score at Rotten Tomatoes survey of critics, the best critical response to a Bond film in decades. Mendes’ smart re-invention of the series after the not-well received Quantum Of Solace (2008) is a big reason why.
  • JamesCraigJamesCraig Ancient Rome
    Posts: 3,497
    Im not seeking attention, I am seeking a refund back from EON though

    Yes child. Now go to sleep. *Hands teddy bear*.
    ~O)
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,157
    Please, fellas, let it go.
  • Posts: 11,189
    I'm suprised how nasty things sometimes get around here.I didn't think SF was that bad at all. I... actually...liked it :(
  • BAIN123 wrote:
    I'm suprised how nasty things sometimes get around here.I didn't think SF was that bad at all. I... actually...liked it :(

    It's xmas day in the trenches now
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