SKYFALL: FANS' REACTIONS - GUARANTEED SPOILERS

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  • hoppimikehoppimike Kent, UK
    Posts: 290
    Getafix wrote:
    Yeah it's odd to me. I really thought Mendes was going to capture the 'feel' of the older films. Those large crowd scenes where Bond gets lost in a mass of party goers were such a staple of the Connery and Moore eras. It's one of the reasons I enjoy the opera scene in QoS - it captures a real location and a sense of Bond in the thick of real life events like the old films used to.

    The references to the past in SF were so literal I was shocked - the DB5 and M's old office coming back at the end seemed like such dumb ways to hark back. Brosnan had done all that stuff so many times already it just felt totally unoriginal. I expected much more from Mendes.

    Yeah they felt too easy to me. Like when the music kicked in after they got in the DB5 and that joke about the ejector seat... I found it kinda cringe-worthy that's all.

    But like, each to their own and maybe I'll think differently of it when I rewatch :)
  • edited February 2013 Posts: 11,425
    I hate the constant nod nod wink winking back to the past. It's been getting worse and worse since the Brosnan era. Rather than just being of their time there's always some need to make direct clunking references to the past. The constant re use of the DB5, Fields doing a Oilfinger homage, the ejector seat, M's old office (which I'm actually happy to see return). I feel these things really take me out of the moment. It's all too post-modern and self-referencing. Even the heavy handed symbolism of Tennison and Turner felt like it laying on the self awareness too much.

  • jka12002jka12002 Banned
    edited February 2013 Posts: 188
    *ignore, double post by accident*
  • jka12002jka12002 Banned
    Posts: 188
    So the Bond franchise is finally going back to the way it started out after fans have complained that the first 2 Craig films were "un-bond like". And still they complain about it.

    I for one loved the ending of Skyfall because it meant Craig's rebooted 007 has come full circle and we may see a more familiar James Bond personality in Bond 24. Geez they brought back Male M,Q,Moneypenny and Gadgets and no is satisfied.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    edited February 2013 Posts: 28,694
    RC7 wrote:
    Samuel001 wrote:
    MI6 and Bond himself should always be 'old' but his world is forever 'new' and always changing.

    A saliant point, and why they need to never have the bloody DB5 return, scrap the 60's nostalgia and kick on into the future. Nostalgia is the death knell of any franchise.

    I find the DB5 to be timeless. I would rather drive it today than any car out there. It is eloquence without ostentatiousness.
  • Posts: 11,425
    jka12002 wrote:
    So the Bond franchise is finally going back to the way it started out after fans have complained that the first 2 Craig films were "un-bond like". And still they complain about it.

    I for one loved the ending of Skyfall because it meant Craig's rebooted 007 has come full circle and we may see a more familiar James Bond personality in Bond 24. Geez they brought back Male M,Q,Moneypenny and Gadgets and no is satisfied.

    That's because the film is not very good. DAD had Q, M, Moneypenny and gadgets galore and it utterly sucked. Throwing the ingredients in the bowl and hoping for the best is no guarantee of a decent Bond movie. CR largely lacks gadgets, has no Q or Moneypenny and is, IMO a far superior film.
  • Posts: 11,425
    RC7 wrote:
    Samuel001 wrote:
    MI6 and Bond himself should always be 'old' but his world is forever 'new' and always changing.

    A saliant point, and why they need to never have the bloody DB5 return, scrap the 60's nostalgia and kick on into the future. Nostalgia is the death knell of any franchise.

    I find the DB5 to be timeless. I would rather drive it today than any car out there. It is eloquence without ostentatiousness.

    Totally agree with RC7 and Samuel001. Let's stop the navel gazing. Heads up - eyes to the future.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Getafix wrote:
    RC7 wrote:
    Samuel001 wrote:
    MI6 and Bond himself should always be 'old' but his world is forever 'new' and always changing.

    A saliant point, and why they need to never have the bloody DB5 return, scrap the 60's nostalgia and kick on into the future. Nostalgia is the death knell of any franchise.

    I find the DB5 to be timeless. I would rather drive it today than any car out there. It is eloquence without ostentatiousness.

    Totally agree with RC7 and Samuel001. Let's stop the navel gazing. Heads up - eyes to the future.

    I am just an old soul, I guess. Well, I know.
  • edited February 2013 Posts: 2,081
    ^^ You do know that old souls are wise, right? :)
  • edited February 2013 Posts: 11,425
    Getafix wrote:
    RC7 wrote:
    Samuel001 wrote:
    MI6 and Bond himself should always be 'old' but his world is forever 'new' and always changing.

    A saliant point, and why they need to never have the bloody DB5 return, scrap the 60's nostalgia and kick on into the future. Nostalgia is the death knell of any franchise.

    I find the DB5 to be timeless. I would rather drive it today than any car out there. It is eloquence without ostentatiousness.

    Totally agree with RC7 and Samuel001. Let's stop the navel gazing. Heads up - eyes to the future.

    I am just an old soul, I guess. Well, I know.

    I think the point the other guys were making is that the best way to reference the past is to preserve the essence and not by constantly waving the DB5 around and shouting 'this is a refernece to those old Bond movies when they were actually genuinely fresh and exciting because they were so completely and utterly modern and confident of their place in the world'.

    I think as Samuel001 said, the suffocating nostalgia of films like DAD and SF is really not healthy. And with the gaps between films growing it means we're due another anniversary yawn fest in two or three movies... Roll on Diamond jubillee!

    If you know what I mean.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    edited February 2013 Posts: 28,694
    Tuulia wrote:
    ^^ You do know that old souls are wise, right? :)

    Oh, yes, I'm aware. I am like Yoda, at least 84% of the time. ;)
    yoda.gif
  • Posts: 2,081
    :P
  • jka12002jka12002 Banned
    Posts: 188
    The Aston Martin DB5 is practially the batmobile of the Bond films. Meaning the car he is often most asociated with and commonly uses. But i do agree that its probably time for at least that to be put away and give bond a more up to date car, but he could have it in like his personal car collection or something.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    jka12002 wrote:
    The Aston Martin DB5 is practially the batmobile of the Bond films. Meaning the car he is often most asociated with and commonly uses. But i do agree that its probably time for at least that to be put away and give bond a more up to date car, but he could have it in like his personal car collection or something.

    Well, he doesn't have it anymore.

    Damn you, Silva. >:P
  • jka12002jka12002 Banned
    Posts: 188
    jka12002 wrote:
    The Aston Martin DB5 is practially the batmobile of the Bond films. Meaning the car he is often most asociated with and commonly uses. But i do agree that its probably time for at least that to be put away and give bond a more up to date car, but he could have it in like his personal car collection or something.

    Well, he doesn't have it anymore.

    Damn you, Silva. >:P

    Not gonna lie i was kinda pissed that happend as well.
  • Posts: 11,425
    Silva did something right at least! Oh and finally ridding us of Dench's M as well.

    Not bad work.
  • jka12002jka12002 Banned
    Posts: 188
    Remember when everyone thought Ralph Fiennes was the new Blofeld?
  • Posts: 11,425
    jka12002 wrote:
    Remember when everyone thought Ralph Fiennes was the new Blofeld?

    Yes, funny to think back. And then everyone was certain that Harris was NOT going to be Moneypenny.

  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    Posts: 13,356
    Getafix wrote:
    Getafix wrote:
    RC7 wrote:
    Samuel001 wrote:
    MI6 and Bond himself should always be 'old' but his world is forever 'new' and always changing.

    A saliant point, and why they need to never have the bloody DB5 return, scrap the 60's nostalgia and kick on into the future. Nostalgia is the death knell of any franchise.

    I find the DB5 to be timeless. I would rather drive it today than any car out there. It is eloquence without ostentatiousness.

    Totally agree with RC7 and Samuel001. Let's stop the navel gazing. Heads up - eyes to the future.

    I am just an old soul, I guess. Well, I know.

    I think the point the other guys were making is that the best way to reference the past is to preserve the essence and not by constantly waving the DB5 around and shouting 'this is a refernece to those old Bond movies when they were actually genuinely fresh and exciting because they were so completely and utterly modern and confident of their place in the world'.

    I think as Samuel001 said, the suffocating nostalgia of films like DAD and SF is really not healthy. And with the gaps between films growing it means we're due another anniversary yawn fest in two or three movies... Roll on Diamond jubillee!

    If you know what I mean.

    Yep! Having MI6 located where it should be with it's standard staff and looking the right way is enough. That should be timeless, as should Bond's character. This is all the noding to the past you'll ever need and we should get that now film-in, film-out.

    Now let's see Bond work in the modern world and be truely contemporary in every way possible. That's how to do old and new at the same time. Skyfall was a very well done transition film, now let's get on with it.
  • Getafix wrote:
    Silva did something right at least! Oh and finally ridding us of Dench's M as well.

    Not bad work.

    Bardem, while an interesting adversary last year, was never going to win 'James Bond villain of the franchise', in that I just found him slightly above average, and despite whatever is said, didn't really do much despite some fun lines and moments such as the 'target practice' with Severine and chase on the London subway. It wasn't him, necessarily that killed M either. She recieved her wounds by being too close to the windows or in the way of enemy fire from outside. We never got to pinpoint who it was actually fired the fatal rounds that lead to her subsequent demise. But to suggest it was Silva himself - have to argue that

    Dench was good enough for one more release I felt. Was a surprise when I first learned she was being killed off, and would of liked her back next time, instead of the Mallory character coming in, but I guess they just decided it was time to call it in, and she did have 17 good years to take away - as did Bernard Lee before her

    Was it really necessary to kill her off ? Right or wrong, that's what they went with. May have not been to everyone's liking, but there's not much now to be done about it after the event
  • hoppimikehoppimike Kent, UK
    Posts: 290
    jka12002 wrote:
    So the Bond franchise is finally going back to the way it started out after fans have complained that the first 2 Craig films were "un-bond like". And still they complain about it.

    I for one loved the ending of Skyfall because it meant Craig's rebooted 007 has come full circle and we may see a more familiar James Bond personality in Bond 24. Geez they brought back Male M,Q,Moneypenny and Gadgets and no is satisfied.

    Well, they're usually different people though.

    Personally I love the CR, QoS and GoldenEye style(s) but am fine with some cool gadgets.

    We're all different :)
  • Posts: 6,601
    Two points in reference to what was said.

    The DBS in the garage was the scene, where in all my 8 viewings the audience responded equally positive AND excited. It was seen as a great scene and was absolutely right to be in.

    Re. China and streets. Haven't you guys followed the production? I thought, it was clear at some point, that even though they didn't admit it, it was also about saving some costs. Just some crew was there and none of the actors. So - it would be hard to do some good street scenes and whatont with them involved. Some head CGI from the PTS anybody? So moaing about this is - once again - just moaning to moan about something. No John Glen would have done a better job, because there was no job to be done in the first place.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Germanlady wrote:
    Re. China and streets. Haven't you guys followed the production? I thought, it was clear at some point, that even though they didn't admit it, it was also about saving some costs. Just some crew was there and none of the actors. So - it would be hard to do some good street scenes and whatont with them involved. Some head CGI from the PTS anybody? So moaing about this is - once again - just moaning to moan about something. No John Glen would have done a better job, because there was no job to be done in the first place.
    What are you referring to? I'm curious.
  • edited February 2013 Posts: 6,601
    I don't want to read through the comments again, but its just one page back, I think. Look for Getafix comments.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Germanlady wrote:
    I don't want to read through the comments again, but its just one page back, I think. Look for Getafix comments.

    Oh, I see. I do agree with @Getafix. We never really see Bond out and about, a little in Turkey, but it would be great to see him interact with the locations around him more, especially China.
  • edited February 2013 Posts: 6,601
    Germanlady wrote:
    I don't want to read through the comments again, but its just one page back, I think. Look for Getafix comments.

    Oh, I see. I do agree with @Getafix. We never really see Bond out and about, a little in Turkey, but it would be great to see him interact with the locations around him more, especially China.


    Yes, but THIS is not, what I was referring to. He said, John Glen would have done a better job apart from moaning about it and I answered with the fact, that there was NO job to be done by anybody, because they didn't send over the actors to run around in the streets for costs saving issues.

    I am sure, with the tons of money, they earned, we will see a lot more of that in the next one. But I can understand their hesitation to throw out the money, since MGM and Co were still on shaky grounds.
  • Posts: 3,327
    Germanlady wrote:
    Germanlady wrote:
    I don't want to read through the comments again, but its just one page back, I think. Look for Getafix comments.

    Oh, I see. I do agree with @Getafix. We never really see Bond out and about, a little in Turkey, but it would be great to see him interact with the locations around him more, especially China.


    Yes, but THIS is not, what I was referring to. He said, John Glen would have done a better job apart from moaning about it and I answered with the fact, that there was NO job to be done by anybody, because they didn't send over the actors to run around in the streets for costs saving issues.

    I am sure, with the tons of money, they earned, we will see a lot more of that in the next one. But I can understand their hesitation to throw out the money, since MGM and Co were still on shaky grounds.

    Having excessive locations doesn't guarantee a great Bond flick anyway. In QoS, there were the most locations ever crammed in to a Bond film, and look how well that was received by the critics and audience compared to SF.
  • edited February 2013 Posts: 6,601
    Germanlady wrote:
    Germanlady wrote:
    I don't want to read through the comments again, but its just one page back, I think. Look for Getafix comments.

    Oh, I see. I do agree with @Getafix. We never really see Bond out and about, a little in Turkey, but it would be great to see him interact with the locations around him more, especially China.


    Yes, but THIS is not, what I was referring to. He said, John Glen would have done a better job apart from moaning about it and I answered with the fact, that there was NO job to be done by anybody, because they didn't send over the actors to run around in the streets for costs saving issues.

    I am sure, with the tons of money, they earned, we will see a lot more of that in the next one. But I can understand their hesitation to throw out the money, since MGM and Co were still on shaky grounds.

    Having excessive locations doesn't guarantee a great Bond flick anyway. In QoS, there were the most locations ever crammed in to a Bond film, and look how well that was received by the critics and audience compared to SF.
    Problem with that film was, that you hardly SAW anything of the locations. There was much more in the featurettes etc then later on film. Sadly...so for me, QOS was NOT a film with many locations. At least in SF, you saw, where they were and could have a good look. I prefer this to just getting glimpses of where he is. Even the short bits of Shanghai and Macao were more then we ever saw of Panama for example and beautifully set, too. It was short, but sweet. The one thing done well was the Mathis location in Italy,.
    So IMO its not about the amount of locations, but how well the ones used are brought on screen.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    edited February 2013 Posts: 28,694
    Germanlady wrote:
    Germanlady wrote:
    I don't want to read through the comments again, but its just one page back, I think. Look for Getafix comments.

    Oh, I see. I do agree with @Getafix. We never really see Bond out and about, a little in Turkey, but it would be great to see him interact with the locations around him more, especially China.


    Yes, but THIS is not, what I was referring to. He said, John Glen would have done a better job apart from moaning about it and I answered with the fact, that there was NO job to be done by anybody, because they didn't send over the actors to run around in the streets for costs saving issues.

    I am sure, with the tons of money, they earned, we will see a lot more of that in the next one. But I can understand their hesitation to throw out the money, since MGM and Co were still on shaky grounds.

    Having excessive locations doesn't guarantee a great Bond flick anyway. In QoS, there were the most locations ever crammed in to a Bond film, and look how well that was received by the critics and audience compared to SF.

    It's obvious QoS would get less notice. Compare Forster to Mendes, a Writers' Strike to the 50th anniversary of James Bond in cinema, a meaty film to a short film.

    And it isn't the amount of locations, it's how you use them. Look at all the places CR takes us, yet each is unique and perfectly shown off without being ostentatious or greedy. It's all about presentation.
  • edited February 2013 Posts: 6,601
    What I said, no? 1 comment above.
    So IMO its not about the amount of locations, but how well the ones used are brought on screen.

    Also, the hectic editing had nothing to do with the writers strike. It was just a bad decision made, which ended in having an even shorter film then necessary. Had they shown all the locations AND the action properly, the would have ended with as MUCH better film - writers strike or not.
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