SKYFALL: FANS' REACTIONS - GUARANTEED SPOILERS

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  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    edited February 2013 Posts: 17,798
    At least Dalton keeps it sensible, as always, and no falling off waterfalls or shot off moving trains and fights with CGI dragons etc
    The CGI dragons didn't bother me half as much as the Mendes direction.
    I miss John Glen now more than ever.

  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    edited February 2013 Posts: 28,694
    chrisisall wrote:
    0013 wrote:
    What you call stupid, I'll say it's heroic...
    Gauls vs. Caesar's legions
    England alone vs. Nazi Germany
    Ewoks vs. elite stormtroopers
    Hobbits vs. orcs

    Bond could have done away handily with them with MI6 help. But they couldn't because of the SCRIPT. It was a Home Alone adult clone.
    On a better note, just finished TLD- wow, what a FANTASTIC Bond movie!!!!!!

    MI6 already suffered for M and who would stick a neck out for her when Silva is targeting her and her office, risking the lives of everyone employed by the intelligence service. In addition, her retirement was guaranteed and became a liability, so it was unlikely she would get any more support. M wanted to insure no more would die for her, so she got away from London with Bond and nobody else. Bond thought he was heading to a massive armory at Skyfall, but it was sold earlier on and he had to improvise. How is any of that stupid? It all makes perfect sense to me, but there I go thinking pragmatically again...
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,798
    Bond thought he was heading to a massive armory at Skyfall, but it was sold earlier on and he had to improvise.
    Because of, umm, the SCRIPT.
    You want amazingly good writing- don't look to a Bond movie. This is fantasy, and it IS what the writers want it to be. Sometimes I cannot deal with the nonsense is all.
  • That's what Bond essentually is, fantasy and fiction. It's not real life, and doesn't pretend to be. Bond today is just big dumb fun for the most part. People go in, pay their money, get their popcorn and sodas and just sit back and switch off the thinking

    There hasn't been a truly sensible Bond release since From Russia With Love of all things if you look back. People today, don't want commonsense Bond, merely to be entertained and satisfied in their seats, even if it does reach proportions of absurdity, but hasn't it always been like that for as long as anyone can remember ?

    Look at the freaking time. But that's basically it

    Goodnight
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    edited February 2013 Posts: 17,798
    There hasn't been a truly sensible Bond release since From Russia With Love of all things if you look back.
    Even THAT had its dopey moments... anyway...
    Goodnight Goodnight, sleep well my dear.
    No need to fear, James Bond is here..
  • Posts: 3,327
    hoppimike wrote:
    hoppimike wrote:
    Ultimately I think the variation of opinion is inevitable as we've said before, particularly on a series like Bond that has changed and evolved rather dramatically a fair number of times in its lifetime.

    I'm sure there are people who dislike DAD or QoS or whatever just as much as I dislike Skyfall :)

    Stick around a while longer. DAD is universally accepted on here and most Bond forums as the worst Bond film ever.

    I'm still baffled how you can comment on cheesy moments in SF, yet find everything in DAD to be fine and dandy.

    But each to their own. I think a few members on here are right - you are getting a lot of stick on here at present, so I'll try to lay off...... :)>-

    heh, thanks dude :)

    And no, no I wouldn't say all is fine and dandy in DAD. I saw it in the cinema when it first came out and thought it was... alright. Bit cheesy, bit OTT and yet unremarkable at the same time, but not like... truly unpleasant!

    I think the issues that I have with Skyfall that aren't in DAD are primarily its depressing nature to me (yet broken up with jokes... feels very uneven to me), constant disappointments (lamest Q gadgets ever, Bond not in his prime, very few foreign locations, M dies etc etc), clumsy, easy crowd-pleasers, Home Alone -style ending that to me felt simplistic and low budget, and so on.

    Towards the end I found myself genuinely muttering "I'm not even joking, I could have made a better Bond film than this..." lol

    I mean who knows, I'll rewatch the second half of it again soon and maybe I'll like it more this time. But Skyfall just did nothing for me and I much prefer CR, GE and QoS, as I say :)

    The reason for the depressing tone is that much of the script is influenced by Fleming's last 2 novels, where 007 goes missing (presumed dead) then returns back to London, brainwashed to kill M. After that he attempts to regain his 00 status again.

    If you ever get chance to read the novels I highly recommend them. They are far better than the films.
  • edited February 2013 Posts: 3,327
    I also found out recently the working title for SF was Magic 44 - one of the chapter titles in Flemings YOLT, and that P&W had originally written Bond returning to London brainwashed to kill M.

    I really wish that had been used.
  • SandySandy Somewhere in Europe
    Posts: 4,012

    The reason for the depressing tone is that much of the script is influenced by Fleming's last 2 novels, where 007 goes missing (presumed dead) then returns back to London, brainwashed to kill M. After that he attempts to regain his 00 status again.

    If you ever get chance to read the novels I highly recommend them. They are far better than the films.

    I was going to comment on that but you beat me to it. I think what SF did, although some people might not like it, was reset the franchise and build a better foundation for it. I think some people are focusing too much on Bond's age, but that is not in my opinion what's at stake in SF. He is an old fashioned weapon in a modern world, always has been and always will be. He is down for most of the film not because he is an old man (Faulks tried that in DMC with terrible results) but due to what happened to him. Still, in less than stellar physical conditions, he achieves what most wouldn't even dream of. By the end of the film he is again on top of his game, his age hasn't changed but he is fully recovered and with him MI6 and some (new) old faces.

    In conclusion, SF is a metaphor for the franchise, which has been getting old not necessarily because of age but due to the multiple blows it suffered, but now after so many have declared the death of the Bond franchise it shows once again it's strength. The journey we are shown in SF is not only that of Bond, back from the grave, it's also of the Bond franchise!
  • Posts: 3,327
    Sandy wrote:

    The reason for the depressing tone is that much of the script is influenced by Fleming's last 2 novels, where 007 goes missing (presumed dead) then returns back to London, brainwashed to kill M. After that he attempts to regain his 00 status again.

    If you ever get chance to read the novels I highly recommend them. They are far better than the films.

    I was going to comment on that but you beat me to it. I think what SF did, although some people might not like it, was reset the franchise and build a better foundation for it. I think some people are focusing too much on Bond's age, but that is not in my opinion what's at stake in SF. He is an old fashioned weapon in a modern world, always has been and always will be. He is down for most of the film not because he is an old man (Faulks tried that in DMC with terrible results) but due to what happened to him. Still, in less than stellar physical conditions, he achieves what most wouldn't even dream of. By the end of the film he is again on top of his game, his age hasn't changed but he is fully recovered and with him MI6 and some (new) old faces.

    In conclusion, SF is a metaphor for the franchise, which has been getting old not necessarily because of age but due to the multiple blows it suffered, but now after so many have declared the death of the Bond franchise it shows once again it's strength. The journey we are shown in SF is not only that of Bond, back from the grave, it's also of the Bond franchise!

    Very true Sandy - although I think this factor will be lost on some of our members here who only look to Bond films for gadgets, action and silly humour.
  • edited February 2013 Posts: 6,601
    Great read, Sandy. I think, what you indicate here is why the films worked so well - for most.
    Its now stronger then ever and the ending indicates a Bond on a mission film, were all the personal issues are behind him.
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    jka12002 wrote:
    If you guys want a movie thats 100% similar to Bond. Check out Golgo 13.

    The Golgo movies share certain identifiable similarities but 100% similar, I think not.
  • Matt_Helm wrote:
    Matt_Helm wrote:


    It certainly is and if he had only shown one of these abilities i wouldn't be that annoyed by SF



    So Craig had no witty remarks in SF, showed no coolness whatsoever throughout, didn't have any intelligence whatsoever?

    How old are you?


    He had. It was the "Or Not to pull.It's Hard to know which when in your Pyjamas." Apart from this he only was patronizing,wannabe ...You name it. Oh and before you ask , I've seen all the Movies and read each and everyone of Flemings Bond Books (not that it would be necessary to identify SF as an utter failure storywise).

    Out of interest, which is your favourite Fleming novel, and what is your favourite Bond film?


    When it comes to the Books it is a tie between FRWL (for the underlying idea) and LALD for the livelyness of its descriptions and even though Bond acts the whole Book like a complete moron. Regarding the Films i am torn between FRWL and OHMSS and the former only wins because there is no skirt wearing Bond in it.
  • Posts: 2,081
    Sandy wrote:
    I think what SF did, although some people might not like it, was reset the franchise and build a better foundation for it. I think some people are focusing too much on Bond's age, but that is not in my opinion what's at stake in SF. He is an old fashioned weapon in a modern world, always has been and always will be. He is down for most of the film not because he is an old man (Faulks tried that in DMC with terrible results) but due to what happened to him. Still, in less than stellar physical conditions, he achieves what most wouldn't even dream of. By the end of the film he is again on top of his game, his age hasn't changed but he is fully recovered and with him MI6 and some (new) old faces.

    In conclusion, SF is a metaphor for the franchise, which has been getting old not necessarily because of age but due to the multiple blows it suffered, but now after so many have declared the death of the Bond franchise it shows once again it's strength. The journey we are shown in SF is not only that of Bond, back from the grave, it's also of the Bond franchise!

    =D>
  • An interesting analogy. But here's the thing: SF is all analogy. I mean, you an also say that Bond has a problem with women due to his trauma as a child, being orphaned. M is the mother figure, repeatedly referred to as maam pronounced like it's mum all the time, far more than in any previous film. By taking her to Skyfall and getting to grieve, Bond gets the whole of his personal trauma out of his system, not to mention the house going up in smoke, showing it's time to move on.

    Not bad. But as a surface narrative, it's rubbish. Taking M to his old house, not phoning ahead, a load of old guns to take on a supervillain with the latest weaponry, and old fart who is bound to get in the way.
  • SandySandy Somewhere in Europe
    Posts: 4,012
    An interesting analogy. But here's the thing: SF is all analogy. I mean, you an also say that Bond has a problem with women due to his trauma as a child, being orphaned. M is the mother figure, repeatedly referred to as maam pronounced like it's mum all the time, far more than in any previous film. By taking her to Skyfall and getting to grieve, Bond gets the whole of his personal trauma out of his system, not to mention the house going up in smoke, showing it's time to move on.

    Not bad. But as a surface narrative, it's rubbish. Taking M to his old house, not phoning ahead, a load of old guns to take on a supervillain with the latest weaponry, and old fart who is bound to get in the way.

    For the last time, it's how ma'am is pronounced!
  • 'Ma'am' is never pronounced 'Mum'. It is either pronounced to rhyme with spam or arm. Royalty prefer it one way only - can't remember which though.

    Not saying they are really saying 'mum' - I am suggesting (though can't prove) that the actors are pronoucing it that way deliberately to suggest M is a mother figure. On and on it goes just before the MI6 attack scene.
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    edited February 2013 Posts: 11,139
    'Ma'am' is never pronounced 'Mum'. It is either pronounced to rhyme with spam or arm. Royalty prefer it one way only - can't remember which though.

    Not saying they are really saying 'mum' - I am suggesting (though can't prove) that the actors are pronoucing it that way deliberately to suggest M is a mother figure. On and on it goes just before the MI6 attack scene.

    No. They're pronouncing it as M'arm because that's how it's pronounced. It has nothing to do with M being a mother figure.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,798
    Not bad. But as a surface narrative, it's rubbish. Taking M to his old house, not phoning ahead, a load of old guns to take on a supervillain with the latest weaponry, and old fart who is bound to get in the way.
    LOL, all the subtly & thoughtful story structure of a Rambo flick.
    :))
  • hoppimikehoppimike Kent, UK
    Posts: 290
    I just felt like... CR and QoS made Bond to me feel more alive than in a very long time - more so than the later Brosnan films. To then turn that into something that we all think is aging, potentially coming to an end and potentially dying is a large portion of why I think Skyfall is a tragedy. They should have ridden the wave, not smashed it into a wall!
  • Posts: 6,601
    Many of us think, its about resurrection and not death. Quite a significant difference.
  • Posts: 1,407
    hoppimike wrote:
    I just felt like... CR and QoS made Bond to me feel more alive than in a very long time - more so than the later Brosnan films. To then turn that into something that we all think is aging, potentially coming to an end and potentially dying is a large portion of why I think Skyfall is a tragedy. They should have ridden the wave, not smashed it into a wall!

    You have some good thoughts @hoppimike. But one of the reasons you are getting so much flak is because you make statements like this when we all know you have yet to see the majority of the films. "felt more alive than in a very long time" is just not a statement you can make yet. But while I don't agree with your opinions on Skyfall, your making good contributions so keep it up
  • doubleoego wrote:
    'Ma'am' is never pronounced 'Mum'. It is either pronounced to rhyme with spam or arm. Royalty prefer it one way only - can't remember which though.

    Not saying they are really saying 'mum' - I am suggesting (though can't prove) that the actors are pronoucing it that way deliberately to suggest M is a mother figure. On and on it goes just before the MI6 attack scene.

    No. They're pronouncing it as M'arm because that's how it's pronounced. It has nothing to do with M being a mother figure.

    But they're not always pronoucing it 'M'arm', it often comes out as 'Mum'. Now normally I'd disregard that, but this being a rather pretentious flick, and all that guff about Silva and his 'mummy' schtick and Bond in tears at her death, with the tombstones of his parents needlessly witnessed, something tells me I'm not barking up the wrong tree here. And when it dawned on my early on I thought hmm, I think I can tell where this is going.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,798
    A movie that long surely could have filled us in on some more. Like how he survived the fall... who was that girl he was making love to... how did he get back home... why is Silva allowed to keep removable dentures while in solitary (they should have taken that bit out of the scene...)?
    And Severine... she's a sex worker, so he jumps in her shower to what? Give her something new? That seemed even more wrong than the similar situation in TMWTGG, except that SHE came to HIM there. And both girls were shot dead!!!
    In fact, a great deal seems to have been lifted from that film IMO.
  • edited February 2013 Posts: 2,081
    Germanlady wrote:
    Many of us think, its about resurrection and not death. Quite a significant difference.

    It is indeed. Resurrection, and rebirth, very positive and life-affirming.

    Bond gets basically everything AND the kitchen sink (well, a train) thrown at him, and to see him handle it is a pleasure to those who like the movie. Obviously those who see Bond's struggles in a negative light don't enjoy it, but the way I look at it, if everything was easy and went smoothly, and he didn't need to dig deep within himself, it would be less interesting. He's on top of his game in the beginning, and again at the end, but the journey in between is what makes it fascinating to me. He's not just going through the motions, nothing really affecting him. And so I care more about the character, and what happens to him in this movie... and the next... :)
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,798
    I'll hand it to Craig here; his acting is absolutely top notch!!
  • Posts: 2,081
    ^^ I agree on that. Nice to know you liked something in Skyfall, @chrisisall. ;)
  • Posts: 6,601
    bondbat007 wrote:
    hoppimike wrote:
    I just felt like... CR and QoS made Bond to me feel more alive than in a very long time - more so than the later Brosnan films. To then turn that into something that we all think is aging, potentially coming to an end and potentially dying is a large portion of why I think Skyfall is a tragedy. They should have ridden the wave, not smashed it into a wall!

    You have some good thoughts @hoppimike. But one of the reasons you are getting so much flak is because you make statements like this when we all know you have yet to see the majority of the films. "felt more alive than in a very long time" is just not a statement you can make yet. But while I don't agree with your opinions on Skyfall, your making good contributions so keep it up


    Yes indeed, he has couple of locked threads to his name - 6 or 7?
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    chrisisall wrote:
    Bond thought he was heading to a massive armory at Skyfall, but it was sold earlier on and he had to improvise.
    Because of, umm, the SCRIPT.
    You want amazingly good writing- don't look to a Bond movie. This is fantasy, and it IS what the writers want it to be. Sometimes I cannot deal with the nonsense is all.

    Yeah, obviously. What kind of argument is that? Any gripe you have with a film ever is found in THE SCRIPT.
  • Posts: 11,425
    chrisisall wrote:
    0013 wrote:
    What you call stupid, I'll say it's heroic...
    Gauls vs. Caesar's legions
    England alone vs. Nazi Germany
    Ewoks vs. elite stormtroopers
    Hobbits vs. orcs

    Bond could have done away handily with them with MI6 help. But they couldn't because of the SCRIPT. It was a Home Alone adult clone.
    On a better note, just finished TLD- wow, what a FANTASTIC Bond movie!!!!!!

    I know, I love the way all the nonsense with the plot in SF is explained away as if no one had actually thought about it - almost as if the events in the film were pre-existing facts that had to be worked around rather than what they are - the catastrophically inept blunderings of Mssrs Purvis and Wade.

    At least we still have TLD... Sometimes I really try to believe that the DC era represents a return to form and then I watch a classic film like TLD and realise it's just not true. My main consellation is that the films are better than during the Brosnan era and DC is a decent Bond. I just really hope he gets a cracking script and direction for the next one.
  • Posts: 11,425
    chrisisall wrote:
    0013 wrote:
    What you call stupid, I'll say it's heroic...
    Gauls vs. Caesar's legions
    England alone vs. Nazi Germany
    Ewoks vs. elite stormtroopers
    Hobbits vs. orcs

    Bond could have done away handily with them with MI6 help. But they couldn't because of the SCRIPT. It was a Home Alone adult clone.
    On a better note, just finished TLD- wow, what a FANTASTIC Bond movie!!!!!!

    I know, I love the way all the nonsense with the plot in SF is explained away as if no one had actually thought about it - almost as if the events in the film were pre-existing facts that had to be worked around rather than what they are - the catastrophically inept blunderings of Mssrs Purvis and Wade.

    At least we still have TLD... Sometimes I really try to believe that the DC era represents a return to form and then I watch a classic film like TLD and realise it's just not true. My main consellation is that the films are better than during the Brosnan era and DC is a decent Bond. I just really hope he gets a cracking script and direction for the next one.
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