Timothy Dalton or Daniel Craig?

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  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,835
    jerome007 wrote: »
    Feeling the love for Sir Rog. Good to see.
    Anyone who doesn't love Roger is not a true Bond fan IMHO.
    *ducks*
  • SzonanaSzonana Mexico
    Posts: 1,130
    jerome007 wrote: »
    Feeling the love for Sir Rog. Good to see.

    I love the 6 actors who have played Bond.
    Some more than others but i like each one of them for different reasons

    Pierce Brosnan and Sean Connery for their mix of a bitt of danger, sex appeal and their sense of humor
    Daniel Craig and Timothy Dalton for making Bond more human by showing his more flawed and revel side of the character.
    Roger Moore and George Lazenby for giving the character a more family friendly approach, giving it its most light hearted tone.

    Sean's and Pierce's flicks were ok to watch with the whole family but they were more action oriented and the character was more masculine and sexy.


  • edited October 2015 Posts: 11,189
    doubleoego wrote: »
    bondsum wrote: »
    Szonana wrote: »
    And I'm glad that Timothy is finally getting the praise he deserves. After all he is the Pioner of the hard edge Bond Craig just made it popular among general audiences.
    Sorry, can't agree with that. Connery is the pioneer of the hard-edged Bond. Take another look at Dr No, or even FRWL to see the point proven. Dalton brought back some of Bond's toughness that had been missing since Connery (and Lazenby for that matter) had signed off, but in no way was he a pioneer. Also, Dalton is much like Lazenby, they both only made one good Bond movie and it just so happens to be their first attempt.
    Szonana wrote: »
    almost every Bond fan a purist and made poeple understand Fleming's vision of Bond wasn't like Sean Connery, Pirece Brosnan or Roger Moore
    Again, sorry to burst your bubble but Fleming did alter Bond's characteristics after Connery had appeared in Dr No and gave him the Scottish connection seen in the YOLT novel, and subsequently OHMSS.

    This.

    I suppose one thing Dalton DID pioneer was that he was the first Bond actor in the official series to really study the books in detail and draw from them. For that he must be admired.
  • BAIN123 wrote: »
    doubleoego wrote: »
    bondsum wrote: »
    Szonana wrote: »
    And I'm glad that Timothy is finally getting the praise he deserves. After all he is the Pioner of the hard edge Bond Craig just made it popular among general audiences.
    Sorry, can't agree with that. Connery is the pioneer of the hard-edged Bond. Take another look at Dr No, or even FRWL to see the point proven. Dalton brought back some of Bond's toughness that had been missing since Connery (and Lazenby for that matter) had signed off, but in no way was he a pioneer. Also, Dalton is much like Lazenby, they both only made one good Bond movie and it just so happens to be their first attempt.
    Szonana wrote: »
    almost every Bond fan a purist and made poeple understand Fleming's vision of Bond wasn't like Sean Connery, Pirece Brosnan or Roger Moore
    Again, sorry to burst your bubble but Fleming did alter Bond's characteristics after Connery had appeared in Dr No and gave him the Scottish connection seen in the YOLT novel, and subsequently OHMSS.

    This.

    I suppose one thing Dalton DID pioneer was that he was the first Bond actor in the official series to really study the books in detail and draw from them. For that he must be admired.

    Indeed, he was much needed after the light hearted Moore era, it's just the problem with Dalton was that he was ahead of his time, now we look at him as underrated, but back around the release of LTK in 89, the general audience who only accepted Bond in the form of Connery or Moore didn't take to well with Dalton's final Bond film, it was very, very violent and some of those death scenes were disgusting, such as Krest's explosion in the decompression chamber. I thought it had a very good story, and I personally admire the film more than I like it, I love love love TLD, seemed like a throwback to FRWL in the same way FYEO was a throwback to OHMSS
  • Thunderball007Thunderball007 United States
    edited October 2015 Posts: 306
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    doubleoego wrote: »
    bondsum wrote: »
    Szonana wrote: »
    And I'm glad that Timothy is finally getting the praise he deserves. After all he is the Pioner of the hard edge Bond Craig just made it popular among general audiences.
    Sorry, can't agree with that. Connery is the pioneer of the hard-edged Bond. Take another look at Dr No, or even FRWL to see the point proven. Dalton brought back some of Bond's toughness that had been missing since Connery (and Lazenby for that matter) had signed off, but in no way was he a pioneer. Also, Dalton is much like Lazenby, they both only made one good Bond movie and it just so happens to be their first attempt.
    Szonana wrote: »
    almost every Bond fan a purist and made poeple understand Fleming's vision of Bond wasn't like Sean Connery, Pirece Brosnan or Roger Moore
    Again, sorry to burst your bubble but Fleming did alter Bond's characteristics after Connery had appeared in Dr No and gave him the Scottish connection seen in the YOLT novel, and subsequently OHMSS.

    This.

    I suppose one thing Dalton DID pioneer was that he was the first Bond actor in the official series to really study the books in detail and draw from them. For that he must be admired.

    Indeed, he was much needed after the light hearted Moore era, it's just the problem with Dalton was that he was ahead of his time, now we look at him as underrated, but back around the release of LTK in 89, the general audience who only accepted Bond in the form of Connery or Moore didn't take to well with Dalton's final Bond film, it was very, very violent and some of those death scenes were disgusting, such as Krest's explosion in the decompression chamber. I thought it had a very good story, and I personally admire the film more than I like it, I love love love TLD, seemed like a throwback to FRWL in the same way FYEO was a throwback to OHMSS


    Uh, sorry, but how you said this made me laugh. :))

    Anyway, I am not certain. I think it is a tie between Mr. Timothy Dalton and Mr. Daniel Craig. Both are outstanding! :)
  • Posts: 11,425
    I personally find Dalton more watchable on screen as Bond. I recognise a lot of the criticisms and think many of them are fair comment, but for me he's more engaging in the role.

    I find Craig's Bond less interesting. I think Craig was good in CR and QOS but worry about the direction Mendes has taken him. I'm hoping the character in SP is closer to what we saw in the first two movies.
  • NicNacNicNac Administrator, Moderator
    Posts: 7,585
    Szonana wrote: »
    jerome007 wrote: »
    Feeling the love for Sir Rog. Good to see.

    I love the 6 actors who have played Bond.
    Some more than others but i like each one of them for different reasons

    =D>
  • SirHilaryBraySirHilaryBray Scotland
    edited October 2015 Posts: 2,138
    suavejmf wrote: »
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    I find Moore quite bland in TMWTGG. Maybe it's more in line with Fleming but, nonetheless, he doesn't own the role at this point. Last time I watched it I found I myself thinking any half decent actor with a posh voice could have played Bond and given a similar performance.

    I like Moore in TMWTGG. He plays Bond rather than Moore. Sir Roger is an underrated actor because he makes acting look easy. But the truth is that he's a star.....

    Off topic, I also thought Moore was at his best in LALD, because he played Bond straight, he had a bit of fire about him. I think his tenure just gradually became more cliché and parody. If all of his movies had been played the way he did in LALD I would be shouting for Moore to be the greatest.

    Sir Roge I will remember like a fond old uncle. Warm on screen, great defender of the franchise even to this day. Top Top man!
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    chrisisall wrote: »
    jerome007 wrote: »
    Feeling the love for Sir Rog. Good to see.
    Anyone who doesn't love Roger is not a true Bond fan IMHO.
    *ducks*

    Hey! I have copyrights on that term "not a true Bond fan" :)) :)) or so they claim...
    suavejmf wrote: »
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    I find Moore quite bland in TMWTGG. Maybe it's more in line with Fleming but, nonetheless, he doesn't own the role at this point. Last time I watched it I found I myself thinking any half decent actor with a posh voice could have played Bond and given a similar performance.

    I like Moore in TMWTGG. He plays Bond rather than Moore. Sir Roger is an underrated actor because he makes acting look easy. But the truth is that he's a star.....

    Off topic, I also thought Moore was at his best in LALD, because he played Bond straight, he had a bit of fire about him. I think his tenure just gradually became more cliché and parody. If all of his movies had been played the way he did in LALD I would be shouting for Moore to be the greatest.

    True, but obviously that approach wouldn't have worked in movies like MR or AVTAK.
    And with TSWLM shattering box office records he/they did something right with the new style.
  • SirHilaryBraySirHilaryBray Scotland
    edited October 2015 Posts: 2,138
    chrisisall wrote: »
    jerome007 wrote: »
    Feeling the love for Sir Rog. Good to see.
    Anyone who doesn't love Roger is not a true Bond fan IMHO.
    *ducks*

    Hey! I have copyrights on that term "not a true Bond fan" :)) :)) or so they claim...
    suavejmf wrote: »
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    I find Moore quite bland in TMWTGG. Maybe it's more in line with Fleming but, nonetheless, he doesn't own the role at this point. Last time I watched it I found I myself thinking any half decent actor with a posh voice could have played Bond and given a similar performance.

    I like Moore in TMWTGG. He plays Bond rather than Moore. Sir Roger is an underrated actor because he makes acting look easy. But the truth is that he's a star.....

    Off topic, I also thought Moore was at his best in LALD, because he played Bond straight, he had a bit of fire about him. I think his tenure just gradually became more cliché and parody. If all of his movies had been played the way he did in LALD I would be shouting for Moore to be the greatest.

    True, but obviously that approach wouldn't have worked in movies like MR or AVTAK.
    And with TSWLM shattering box office records he/they did something right with the new style.

    Of its time Jason, Moore morphed with the fast moving movie fashion of the 70's, 80's and other action, adventure films that surrounded the Bond releases at the time, the films were taking a more American approach. The same kind of humour and style which influenced the Moore era can be seen in far too many things to list.
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    edited October 2015 Posts: 5,131
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    suavejmf wrote: »
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    I find Moore quite bland in TMWTGG. Maybe it's more in line with Fleming but, nonetheless, he doesn't own the role at this point. Last time I watched it I found I myself thinking any half decent actor with a posh voice could have played Bond and given a similar performance.

    I like Moore in TMWTGG. He plays Bond rather than Moore. Sir Roger is an underrated actor because he makes acting look easy. But the truth is that he's a star.....

    That's why I like Moore more than Dalton. For the most part I think Moore does make screen acting look easy, whereas Dalton LOOKS like he's acting a lot of the time.

    However, I think with MWTGG they took a misstep in trying too hard to make Moore's Bond more aggressive. I liked him in LALD but the slapping and foul temper come from nowhere in MWTGG . With Connery you could believe he would snap if something pushed him to the limit.
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    suavejmf wrote: »
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    I find Moore quite bland in TMWTGG. Maybe it's more in line with Fleming but, nonetheless, he doesn't own the role at this point. Last time I watched it I found I myself thinking any half decent actor with a posh voice could have played Bond and given a similar performance.

    I like Moore in TMWTGG. He plays Bond rather than Moore. Sir Roger is an underrated actor because he makes acting look easy. But the truth is that he's a star.....

    That's why I like Moore more than Dalton. For the most part I think Moore does make screen acting look easy, whereas Dalton LOOKS like he's acting a lot of the time.

    However, I think with MWTGG they took a misstep in trying too hard to make Moore's Bond more aggressive. I liked him in LALD but the slapping and foul temper come from nowhere in MWTGG . With Connery you could believe he would snap if something pushed him to the limit.

    The slapping and temper is Bond. Andrea Anders wasn't providing the information on the Assassin that supposedly wants to kill him. It was justified and worked in the story.
  • Posts: 11,425
    I think Rog is actually very convincing in his tougher moments. The hard edge is all the more effective because it comes from beneath this veneer of charm. You always have the sense with Rog that there's a darker side.

    Connery of course also had this, but it's less hidden. The edge is barely concealed with Connery, whereas with Moore it does come from nowhere and is that bit more shocking.

    Both great Bonds though of course - just always a joy to watch.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    I like Daniel Craig for being edgy and for his no-nonsense persona, but he's not as Bondian as the great Timothy Dalton is. Dalton is exactly how Fleming's Bond would have been in an updated time. But, that's just my opinion.

    As for Sir Rog (judging by the recent comments), he's my all-time favourite. Have laugh, will travel. My kind of Bond. :))
  • edited October 2015 Posts: 11,189
    suavejmf wrote: »
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    suavejmf wrote: »
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    I find Moore quite bland in TMWTGG. Maybe it's more in line with Fleming but, nonetheless, he doesn't own the role at this point. Last time I watched it I found I myself thinking any half decent actor with a posh voice could have played Bond and given a similar performance.

    I like Moore in TMWTGG. He plays Bond rather than Moore. Sir Roger is an underrated actor because he makes acting look easy. But the truth is that he's a star.....

    That's why I like Moore more than Dalton. For the most part I think Moore does make screen acting look easy, whereas Dalton LOOKS like he's acting a lot of the time.

    However, I think with MWTGG they took a misstep in trying too hard to make Moore's Bond more aggressive. I liked him in LALD but the slapping and foul temper come from nowhere in MWTGG . With Connery you could believe he would snap if something pushed him to the limit.
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    suavejmf wrote: »
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    I find Moore quite bland in TMWTGG. Maybe it's more in line with Fleming but, nonetheless, he doesn't own the role at this point. Last time I watched it I found I myself thinking any half decent actor with a posh voice could have played Bond and given a similar performance.

    I like Moore in TMWTGG. He plays Bond rather than Moore. Sir Roger is an underrated actor because he makes acting look easy. But the truth is that he's a star.....

    That's why I like Moore more than Dalton. For the most part I think Moore does make screen acting look easy, whereas Dalton LOOKS like he's acting a lot of the time.

    However, I think with MWTGG they took a misstep in trying too hard to make Moore's Bond more aggressive. I liked him in LALD but the slapping and foul temper come from nowhere in MWTGG . With Connery you could believe he would snap if something pushed him to the limit.

    The slapping and temper is Bond. Andrea Anders wasn't providing the information on the Assassin that supposedly wants to kill him. It was justified and worked in the story.

    I don't actually remember any incidents in the original novels when Bond is physically violent towards a woman. If I'm wrong I stand corrected as I admit to not reading ALL the original books (TSWLM and most of the short stories). He could be bad tempered but it was usually in moderation...and I don't buy that Moore is bad tempered because he's agitated about the assassin wanting to kill him.

    I remember Maud Adams even felt it didn't work, and she acted in the same scene with him.

    Moore was good at playing it straight when he wanted to (FYEO, OP etc) but the woman-beater aspect just doesn't really suit him. His Bond protects women, he doesn't beat them.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    I couldn't agree more. Well said, Bain.

    That scene in TMWTGG tried hard to replicate Sean Connery's roughness, but Moore was never that kind of an actor. Sure, I've seen him play too many serious roles in many films such as The Man Who Haunted Himself and a beater in any of these films, even the misogynist Ffolkes in the film of the same name, he simply wasn't.

    Like you said, his Bond protected women and never harmed them, at the slightest.
  • Posts: 11,189
    He COULD deliver an intimidating put-down with ease ("who knows...he may use one of those little golden bullets on you") but I think the violence is a step too far.
  • Posts: 3,334
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    doubleoego wrote: »
    bondsum wrote: »
    Szonana wrote: »
    And I'm glad that Timothy is finally getting the praise he deserves. After all he is the Pioner of the hard edge Bond Craig just made it popular among general audiences.
    Sorry, can't agree with that. Connery is the pioneer of the hard-edged Bond. Take another look at Dr No, or even FRWL to see the point proven. Dalton brought back some of Bond's toughness that had been missing since Connery (and Lazenby for that matter) had signed off, but in no way was he a pioneer. Also, Dalton is much like Lazenby, they both only made one good Bond movie and it just so happens to be their first attempt.
    Szonana wrote: »
    almost every Bond fan a purist and made poeple understand Fleming's vision of Bond wasn't like Sean Connery, Pirece Brosnan or Roger Moore
    Again, sorry to burst your bubble but Fleming did alter Bond's characteristics after Connery had appeared in Dr No and gave him the Scottish connection seen in the YOLT novel, and subsequently OHMSS.

    This.

    I suppose one thing Dalton DID pioneer was that he was the first Bond actor in the official series to really study the books in detail and draw from them. For that he must be admired.

    Roger Moore also read all the Fleming’s books, though he didnt seem to agree that there was much to mine from the novels as Dalton did. Here's a Roger qoute for you: "There was little offered in them (007 books) about the character. However, I remember reading one line that said Bond had just completed a mission - meaning a kill. He didn’t particularly enjoy killing but took pride in doing his job well. That was the key to the role as far as I was concerned." The book he's referencing is Goldfinger by the way. Ian Fleming writes: “It was part of his profession to kill people. He had never liked doing it and when he had to kill he did it as well as he knew how and forgot about it. As a secret agent who held the rare double-O prefix – the license to kill in the Secret Service – it was his duty to be as cool about death as a surgeon. If it happened, it happened. Regret was unprofessional — worse, it was a death-watch beetle in the soul.”

    I have to agree with those here that say Moore's first 2 Bond films (LALD and TMWTGG) were his best portrayal of 007. TSWLM began the shift towards him with of that twinkle in his eye and a wink to the audience it was all just a bit of fun.
  • edited October 2015 Posts: 11,189
    I've heard that quote from Moore too actually. I still think that Dalton was the first to really make the books a priority in his overall portrayal of 007 (Lazenby was arguably guided more by Peter Hunt's vision). Moore was happy to go away from Fleming's 007, whereas Dalton seemed to want to remain faithful to him.

    Did Moore read all the books or just a few here and there?
  • SzonanaSzonana Mexico
    Posts: 1,130
    Sorry, can't agree with that. Connery is the pioneer of the hard-edged Bond. Take another look at Dr No, or even FRWL to see the point proven. Dalton brought back some of Bond's toughness that had been missing since Connery (and Lazenby for that matter) had signed off, but in no way was he a pioneer. Also, Dalton is much like Lazenby, they both only made one good Bond movie and it just so happens to be their first attempt.

    Sean had that edge but hard edge is not the way i would describe his tenure as Bond.
    He was a gentleman with a touch of Danger but hard edge is not the way id describe him

    Again, sorry to burst your bubble but Fleming did alter Bond's characteristics after Connery had appeared in Dr No and gave him the Scottish connection seen in the YOLT novel, and subsequently OHMSS.

    I know Fleming changed the character a bitt in his latter novels thanks to Sean Connery but Connery distanced himself from Fleming's Bond since Goldfinger.
    In Dr No and From Russia with love he was much more fleming and there were hints to let us know this would latter change.

    So thats why i say Dalton was the Pionner of making Bond more Flrminesque because he wanted to keep that version his whole tenure which sadly just lasted two films.

    So because of his insistence of making Bond the way he did it i give him the creid of being the pionner on being closer to Fleming.

    Once i made a thread on which type of Bond Connery was and many agreed he started as Fleming Bond to latter become UA Bond and the hints of making Fleming's Bond dissapear started from the very beginning

  • SzonanaSzonana Mexico
    Posts: 1,130
    Ok i know we all disscus with respect but this thread gave me one curious question
    Which rivarly is more intense between the Bond Fans

    Craig vs Dalton for being the two more fleminesque Bond ? Or Daniel Craig vs Pierce Brosnsn for being the two Modern day Bond ?

  • edited October 2015 Posts: 11,189
    Sorry, can't agree with that. Connery is the pioneer of the hard-edged Bond. Take another look at Dr No, or even FRWL to see the point proven. Dalton brought back some of Bond's toughness that had been missing since Connery (and Lazenby for that matter) had signed off, but in no way was he a pioneer. Also, Dalton is much like Lazenby, they both only made one good Bond movie and it just so happens to be their first attempt.

    Sean had that edge but hard edge is not the way i would describe his tenure as Bond.
    He was a gentleman with a touch of Danger but hard edge is not the way id describe him


    [/quote]

    ...and yet Connery had one of the most brutal hand-to-hand fights in the whole series (the FRWL train fight).

  • Posts: 11,425
    If Connery didn't have a hard edge, then who did? He is the edgiest of all
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    Getafix wrote: »
    If Connery didn't have a hard edge, then who did? He is the edgiest of all

    Very true, just look at the amazing fight in the lift in the house where Tiffany lives.
    That scene is probably one of the most amazing of the whole series.

  • Posts: 11,425
    Getafix wrote: »
    If Connery didn't have a hard edge, then who did? He is the edgiest of all

    Very true, just look at the amazing fight in the lift in the house where Tiffany lives.
    That scene is probably one of the most amazing of the whole series.

    Well, the fight with Red Grant is better.
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    edited October 2015 Posts: 14,003
    Getafix wrote: »
    If Connery didn't have a hard edge, then who did? He is the edgiest of all

    I wouldn't say that he was the edgiest, but Connery did have a lethal edge in Dr No & From Russia With Love. Starting with Goldfinger, he became soft (for want of a btter word) over the course of the rest of his era, eventually becoming wheezy and flabby in DAF.
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    Getafix wrote: »
    Getafix wrote: »
    If Connery didn't have a hard edge, then who did? He is the edgiest of all

    Very true, just look at the amazing fight in the lift in the house where Tiffany lives.
    That scene is probably one of the most amazing of the whole series.

    Well, the fight with Red Grant is better.

    I dare to say I like the lift fight a bit more, not much, just a tiny bit.
    After all it's more talk than fight really in the train.
    But of course the whole sequence is amazing and also one of the best in the franchise.

    I have a liking for those hard fights. There are not that many in the Bond movies.
    One I also love is in GoldenEye when Alec and Bond fight in the end sequence on that satellite dish's inner rooms.

    Moore also had some quite hard hand-to-hand combats.

    I think such things get overlooked these days with the focus mainly on Craig's hard fights.
  • edited October 2015 Posts: 11,189
    Getafix wrote: »
    Getafix wrote: »
    If Connery didn't have a hard edge, then who did? He is the edgiest of all

    Very true, just look at the amazing fight in the lift in the house where Tiffany lives.
    That scene is probably one of the most amazing of the whole series.

    Well, the fight with Red Grant is better.

    FAR better. The lift fight is ok but nothing spectacular.

    There were times though when I think even Connery's fights looked a bit staged.



    (thankfully the set and fast-paced music compensate).
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    Connerys fights may have been 'staged' but in his prime he could have beaten any of the other Bond actors in a fight......easily.
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    edited October 2015 Posts: 14,003
    suavejmf wrote: »
    Connerys fights may have been 'staged' but in his prime he could have beaten any of the other Bond actors in a fight......easily.

    His prime didn't last that long, but even in it, he wouldn't last 5 seconds against Lazenby.

  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    I think he would knock Lazenby into next week.
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