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Is Dench's M the Queen of England???
A bizarre thought just occured to me folks. Prompted in part by Silva's line from the trailer, "Mommy was very bad." I began thinking futher about it, about Bond's relationship to M, his loyalty to her in the way it's been portrayed in the recent films, and in particular the Dench/Craig - mother/son dynamic. Suddenly I came to an unforseen conclusion.
Is Judi Dench's M supposed to be a symbol for Her Majesty, at least in relation to how Craig's Bond sees her? Strictly metaphorically speaking, I believe this is a prospect perhaps worth delving into. And if so, I wonder just how conscious EON is about it?
What are your thoughts? Am I completely crazy? Or am I onto something?
Is Judi Dench's M supposed to be a symbol for Her Majesty, at least in relation to how Craig's Bond sees her? Strictly metaphorically speaking, I believe this is a prospect perhaps worth delving into. And if so, I wonder just how conscious EON is about it?
What are your thoughts? Am I completely crazy? Or am I onto something?
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Comments
Does she represent the Queen? Well, here I'm not so sure. Certainly, she represents female authority and is the person charged with Britain's security from foreign threat, but I think the Queen is pushing it a little bit.
Lord have mercy! M is Bond's Boss and the head of MI6. End of story.
She's also referenced as Bond's mother... several times.
No, Dench is there to please the feminist crowd, and to put in motion Barbara Broccoli's feminist plans for the franchise.
You know, a lot more people would warm to you if you used the phrase "I think" instead of coaching everything in absolutes.
There is nothing wrong with @wildboonjive suggesting that this may be some kind of metaphor and nothing wrong with people disagreeing. But these are all opinions. Not facts. Learning the difference would go a long way.
It is more than permissible to think that Dench's inclusion in the franchise was to reflect the times. When she was cast, Stella Tennant was head of MI5. Of course, she may purely have been cast because of the accusations levelled at the franchise at the time for having a particularly chauvinistic approach in the way it portrayed women. Perhaps they wanted to show that not all women in Bond films were bits of skirt for Bond to have his way with - hence the "sexist, misogynist, dinosaur" speech. Of course, she could just have been hired because she's one of this country's leading thespians.
I'm not saying there isn't a "feminist agenda" in the Bond films, but I am saying that it is possible that there isn't. Opening up your mind to other possibilities might just make others more inclined to thoughtfully consider your own opinions.
I say this because I don't want another thread derailed by your absolutist arguments, which make it very difficult for others to enjoy a thread or to feel like they wish to actively participate in them.
There's nothing wrong with argument on a forum (in fact, we encourage it) but as Monty Python famously said, an argument isn't just saying "no it isn't" to every statement.
We both know that you've been reminded about this behaviour already, but this is my nice way of asking you to consider your posts and the effect they may have on others.
It was just a friendly reminder.
I'd admit that what @wildboonjive is saying about Dench's character development is right, but I recognise that, for a lot of people, that's not the relationship they want Bond to have with M. They want someone who is much more like Bernard Lee's M (or, more like Dench's M was originally) someone who cares about Bond, but has no compunction about sending him out to do his job and potentially getting him killed.
However, purely in terms of character dynamics, this expanded mother/son relationship probably makes for more interesting stories.
So as not to muddy this thread with a slightly meaningless, possibly offensive debate, please send me a PM explaining these "feminist plans" you speak of.
To make it fast : 1) turning Bond into a sexual object 2) turning the Bond girls into complex characters, 3) the Women's day advert, 4) the scene in CR where Bond is in speedos and Vesper in t-shirt, 4) the famous speedo scene, with a) OTT homoerotic walk, b) OTT music, c) OTT close-up and d) OTT lighting.
In short : the feminist agenda is to turn Bond into the sexual object to please women, and to stop pleasing men by stopping the women in bikini, the innuendoes, the arse-slapping, and turning them into complex characters so women can identify to the new female power. Notice how Bond has not slapped a woman since TMWTGG, but has been slapped by women twice in the last 20 years, and he also has been kicked in the leg by a woman.
Forget her agenda, yours seems to be to push this opinion into virtually every thread you visit. It was the same on the old forum and it's the same here.
You are, of course, entitled to this opinion, but just why you feel the need to bring it into so many threads that are unrelated to it, the need to reiterate it ad nauseam, and the fact that you simply refuse to see this as anything other than fact, I simply cannot understand.
So, please, stop derailing threads with this diatribe against Broccoli and her so-called "feminist agenda." If you want to discuss it, I have no objection to you creating a thread and keeping it in there.
Thank you! This is so old already and has been discussed ad nauseum.
I haven't spoken about that particular topic for months. So no i do not up push this opinion into every thread I visit, since there are dozens of threads where I posted these last several months where I've not posted that opinion.
You are several months late to critisize that of me, since I haven't spoken about 'Babs feminist agenda' for months.
I don't recall posting about the 'feminist agenda' for months, so how am I constantly derailing threads with that topic if I only posted about it once in the last several months ? You can look up in all the threads I've posted in recently, and I've not made one post about the feminst agenda other than the one in this thread.
Y'know, this discussion is exactly why I asked you to send it in a PM...
Perhaps I've come on a bit strong, but I'm trying to remind you in a friendly manner that derailing threads is not encouraged and can lead to a warning and that if any member receives 3 warnings they may be subject to suspension or a ban.
Anyway, let's not diverge from the topic anymore than we have.
http://www.indianexpress.com/news/tough-new-bond-girl-divides-fans-reignites-feminism-debate/385645/0
There's no doubt that Bond girls have changed over the years...however their rise to so called equals status have imo detracted from our main man - partial demise of PB I believe.
But if you look at PG she was there as a sex object but was also a strong character without overshadowing or mirroring Bond. TD's ladies had the right balance.
Now back on subject.
M is there purely to balance the macho manly stuff of Bond....ah....erm...no she is not the Queen.
Is that because some people thought he called M "Mom" in the scene between Bond and her at her place towards the beginning of CR? I thought that's what I read a while back, but then I also took it in terms of her always watching out for him and trying to track him.
"She likes to think so" is just Bond joking about the way in which M seems to mother him, calling him in and telling him what to do, whilst also caring for him and trusting him.
M was considered as Bond's mother, because mostly of the times she takes care of him and tells him what is right or what is wrong. Also because Bond sometimes don't follow up her orders =)) but that's other thing.
She's not Bond's mom literally. But she trusts him like a son, and she has some mother-love or afect for him.
I read somewhere that Fleming wanted Bond to have a parent-son relationship with his Boss because other than Adm. Godfrey he also used his mother as an inspiration to the character of M, because she's the only person he (Fleming) feared and respected. So yes, M is not a metaphor for the Queen.