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I think if you make four Bond movies and they all to some extent suck, then you have to take responsibility. I don't deny that the stories, directing and casting during the Brozza era were also abysmal, but that doesn't take away from the fact that he was utterly lost in the role.
CR was good in parts. In my opinion, QoS is actually slightly better. What I'm trying to say is that IMO, neither of Craig films has fully delivered yet. They represent solid progress back towards quality Bond movies, but are not the finished article. All the chopping and changing with directors is actually a big part of the problem. Plus, I don't feel the producers have acted as true guardians of the legacy. Still, things have generally been looking up and with Brozza in the past, we no longer need to have nightmares about how bad the next movie is going to be.
I'm not one for beating a dead horse when I have expounded in great detail in the past on what is good and what isn't good about QOS. The movie was severely handicapped by major issues such as the writer's strike of that time and a lot of what was done was done on a wing and a prayer. It also isn't a typical Bond movie with a typical Bond portrayal, it isn't supposed to be and yet is often judged as a bad movie on that alone.
Considering that DAD and MR were supposed to be standard Bond fare and thus can be better compared, they are failures in comparison to QOS, which in the end manages to be a true sequel and gives the Vesper storyline the proper closure, something they tried and failed with in the OHMSS/DAF story of Tracy.
Indeed. Both have an idea of what they want to be and that's right there, to be found in what we were given. The problem is, it was all lost amongst the action and everything that came with it.
It is. Every film since GoldenEye feels like a new experiment. We need consistency and badly. If, I hope, Mendes does the next one it will be interesting to see how Skyfall and Bond 24 stack up against the rest, as a pair and as two separate films on their own, compared to the others in the series.
http://www.mi6-hq.com/sections/articles/bond_22_qos_reviews1.php3
Laz, I really do not like this film. I can enjoy all the others on some level, but this one I find to be an aberration. I must set it aside. I haven't gone quite so far to remove it from its place on the blu-ray shelf and drop it in a dumpster, however it is so dreary, I can't even bring myself to view it during Bondathons. Must watch that the case doesn't collect dust from lack of handling.
We shall have to content ourselves with singing the praises of Laz and OHMSS but remain a Bolivian desert apart on the "merits" of the most recent film produced by Eon productions.
Better than the 90s offerings perhaps, but definitely not the 80s classics.
I'll certainly watch it over all of the above.
I personally think those expecting SF to jettison the elements in both QOS & CR are going to be really disappointed, the feel of SF will be not unlike either of those 2 it's just we'll get a more playful and experienced Bond with a classic feel.
The element of emotion some are hoping will be dropped is likely to be even more considering the plot and the now rumoured big pay off of Skyfall. I bet we'll have as much bitching and slagging off of SF as we have of the last 2 films, SF is not going to be some big leap all RM & PB and tick the box fans are expecting.
YOLT
Ken Adams sets's, Nancy Sinatra, Donald Plesence and a sense of rip-roaring adventure. YOLT wins.
MR
Lovely model work from Ken Adam, Shirley Bassett, John Barry's epic Flight into Space.
MR wins
OP
A more engaging performance from RM, a sharp-as-a tack cold-war plot and Maud Adams
OP wins
AVTAK
Ok a bit narrorer here but still...Christopher Walken, Duran Duran and a tense climax on the GG bridge. AVTAK (narrowly) wins.
Brosan's entries? Ok again controversial but GE trumps QoS into the ground. Why? Robbie Coltrane, Godfried John, Tina Turner, Famke Janssen Sean Bean and a much slicker direction from MC.
DAF? Ok, QoS is probably a better-paced film
I'm not saying the above's are necessarily the best Bond films but they all have something that "stands out" about them. More so than Quantum does. They feel like "complete" movies and, to be honest, are more entertaining.
If I don't like a flick I don't watch it. End of.
The wisest words on here :)
I don't think its the worst but its one of the least satisfying (for me anyway).
Anyway, thats the last I'm going to say on it. MOVE FORWARD TO SKYFALL.
I'd agree elements of those films are better, all of the Moore & Connery films have better scores granted but sets and the odd performance are not going to make me prefer them, I can listen to Barry's magic separately and I just find these films embarrassing, maybe I'll feel the same about QOS when I've lived with them as long as say YOLT, DAF or MR.
I did love these films as a kid but as a nearly 40 year old adult I find them cringe worthy
and as for PB's films I've never liked them.
How do you justify tolerating winking pigeons, invincible cartoon-like villains, invisible cars, CGI surfing, etc, etc and say QOS has less, or worse, no value? I really do think we have "tick the box" fans if such great scenes such as the Bregenz opera house and an emotional, highly satisfying finish that ranks among the best and most Bondian of the series can be easily dismissed like rubbish as some folks do.
Here's to no character development- by the end of QOS, he has learned to interrogate rather than kill, and earned M's trust by learning who to and not to trust. He has become the professional M expects him to be. Wasn't this the idea of the film? Where does it fail past the obvious limitations of the unfinished script and compressed schedule?
I grant that everyone is entitled to their opinion, so here's mine- be a better fan!
QoS has its moments - Ms.Fields, DC's elegant Connery style Hotel escape, the Aston in the tunnel, the dumping of his friend's body in a dumpster, the night at the opera and a great theme song.
Unlike other films we always have something to enjoy in each Bond movie, so for me there are no bad Bond movies, just different ones.
At the mo I really love AVTAK and I'm appreciating Roger's performance even moore now - go figure.
drawl that he's "Barnd James Barnd" does not necessarily make him 007.
QOS thankfully for it's faults didn't do this yes I can't deny the Bourne influence but it's the same as PB's era aping big budget American action flicks. QOS is no less a Bond film than all 4 of Brosnan's, it's just QOS doesn't try to tell you it's a Bond film with all the subtlety of a sledgehammer.
Very nicely put.
The story reminds me of one of Flemmings books in that Bond has a three dimensional character. He has faced the adversity of Vespers death and he is out to simultaneously revenge her and forget about her. As a result, it's natural that we get the Bournish bare-knuckle action because Bond is frankly pissed off, and has to vent it through violence. He also adopts a more devil may care attitude than normal to cover up for the fact that he was secretly devastated by the loss of Vesper.
These are all things that are not normal for Bond to be experiencing during a movie because in every other movie before CR, save perhaps in OHMSS, Bond is a finished product; a character who is fully formed and simply navigates his way through a story-line, completely unchanged. In Quantum and CR though, this is not the case as we get to see Bond become the man that he is in all the other movies, and I think that for some, this is off-putting. For me however, it is very interesting to see as both a Bond fan, and a fan of fine cinema in general because the struggles we see Bond going through in Quantum are immense and amazing to watch.
That being said, there are still a few fundamental flaws that are to blame for Quantum's average rating. First and foremost, the nod to Goldfinger with Fields covered in oil, while I admit that it is a beautiful image and a perfect homage to Jill Masterson covered in gold paint, I think that it was ultimately a waste. It felt forced, like it was an unnecessary plot point that was thrown in to make it feel more Bondish, which it does, but then it also diminishes the original by not honoring it properly.
What is most upsetting about Quantum though is the ending. There was a perfect setup there: an exotic villain’s layer, Bond and a beautiful girl on a mission together, and a villain that was easy to hate. It was all their and ready for a classic Bond finale where Bond and the girl are caught, have a civil report with the villain over drinks while the villain reveals his dubious plans before devising some elaborate way to kill Bond like lowering him into a shark tank or handcuffing him to a nuclear bomb. Then Bond is supposed to escape, kill the bad guy, and save the girl before promptly bedding her.
All of this could have been done at the end of Quantum, but instead we get a violent shootout, some lame hydrogen fireballs, an indirect villain killing, and no bedding of the main Bond girl by movies end. Had it ended differently, I would rank Quantum among the best, but because of the missed opportunity with the ending, it just leaves me feeling frustrated at the end.
I think Bond should have made love to Greene until he saw that that his life as a twisted killer was futile...and at the end credits Greene does a pregnancy test and it's positive. That would have been a fitting climax to the film.
Yes, yes, yes, yes.....YES!
First of all, great and accurate screen name. I appreciate that and your view on the positives of QOS. I would like to express my opinion on what you didn't like and try to put it in a different light. I put a number next to your thoughts and my thoughts in response-
1. Agreed 100%. What's the point of the homage to GF and Jill Masterson when we don't get to see how Fields wound up like that? With Jill at least we knew Oddjob was in the room and therefore you expected something bad could happen to her. This was very likely due to the script and schedule crunch issues. It could have been much more effective if we had a scene with Greene and his men presiding over an interrogation of Fields, who would be bound and suspended over a vat of oil, protesting she was just sent to send Bond back to London and MI6 and didn't know much else.
2. I get where you are coming from, but the standard "tick the boxes" approach which we have seen in many prior installments wasn't needed here in my opinion, it didn't fit the revenge theme of the story. Bond wasn't interested in socializing with Greene, he made that very clear at his party. He was interested in revenge for Vesper, and later Fields and Mathis. He had no support from MI6 and was far outnumbered and ironically like the script, in a time crunch for ruining Greene's and therefore QUANTUM's plans for Medrano to set up a puppet government they could influence. As far as Camille, I thought that the fact he didn't bed her was a quite refreshing change of pace to differentiate the movie from the standard fare. Yes, Camille had a "wing down" but so did Bond. It wasn't that she was uninterested in sleeping with Bond, when she first met him she was. By the time she realized her revenge, she was emotionally and physically exhausted and knew that Bond still had to get his "Quantum Of Solace", that it wasn't quite over for him and he needed to continue to seek that and complete his personal mission, hence why we saw his confrontation with Kabira in an effort to get the answers he needed, which he obviously did, and not float off into the sunset with her.
Little, different touches like these go a long way towards giving QOS a little bit of an identity. Bond always winds up with the girl. This time he didn't. After 40+ years of watching these films and getting the same ending, I appreciated the change in pace.
Man you ain't right!