DC Comics Cinematic Universe (2013 - present)

1102103105107108220

Comments

  • Posts: 19,339
    This review just in from The Guardian newspaper...not a positive review,especially towards Affleck's Batman :

    Justice League review – good, evil and dullness do battle.

    A passionate spark of frenemy-bromance between the Man of Steel and the Caped Crusader was famously created in the last DC adventure, Batman Vs Superman: Dawn of Justice, when these two legends discovered their mums had the same first name: Martha. That somewhat anticlimactic coincidence was widely considered to be indicative of something unconvincing in the whole project. The problems are still evident.



    This new film has had a troubled passage. Its original director, Zack Snyder, had to step aside after a family tragedy and Joss Whedon took over, reportedly reshooting between 15 and 20% of the film, a segment which may or may not have included the ending. It’s an unhappy state of affairs that may account for the film’s tendency to shapelessness. Or this may have been a function of the ensemble structure and an uncertain handling of Batman’s new, more respectable and collegial role within the League.
    We are now a few months on from Superman’s awful fate and huge, sombre banners hang on public monuments all over the world, including Tower Bridge in London. People are everywhere thoroughly depressed and demoralised. Then it becomes very clear that a terrible new threat to Planet Earth is materialising: a grotesque force of evil and destruction in the form of Steppenwolf (played in digital motion capture by Ciarán Hinds).

    Bruce Wayne (Ben Affleck) who in costume and mask is still being called that primitive prototypical name “the bat man” and still going into the deep voice, even in front of people who already know who he is, persuades Diana Prince, otherwise known as Wonder Woman – and enjoyably played by Gal Gadot – that a crack new supergroup should be assembled under their joint command. Metahumans need to be recruited. They will be the lightning-fast Barry Allen, or the Flash (Ezra Miller), the technohuman hybrid Victor Stone or Cyborg (Ray Fisher) and Arthur Curry, or Aquaman, played with muscular and humorous panache by Jason Momoa, from Game of Thrones. He is the kind of exotic undersea creature that David Attenborough might discover in Blue Planet II.

    Meanwhile Lois Lane (Amy Adams) mopes listlessly about the Daily Planet newsroom doing dull human interest stories and Bruce’s manservant Alfred (Jeremy Irons) is even less the traditional below-stairs figure of old, now more a silver-fox computer whiz who says things like: “What the hell?” But everyone must put aside their differences and worries to fight together against the wicked invader – in honour of Superman.

    Momoa brings some punch and humour to this film, especially with Aquaman’s inadvertent confession of a certain tendresse for Wonder Woman, and Ezra Miller does his best with the Flash, whose job it is to provide the nerdy, incredulous, alienated humour. Ray Fisher, too, does his best with a figure half-hidden in hi-tech armour.
    But Ben Affleck is unrelaxed and ill-at-ease in the role of Batman/Bruce, unconvincing in both the bat armour and the three-piece suit of the wealthy plutocrat. “What’s your superpower?” asks The Flash and Bruce replies: “I’m rich.” It feels a bit late for this film to have cottoned on to a daringly heretical Batman joke that people have been making for years. Really, Affleck spreads a pall of dullness over the film. He doesn’t have the implacable, steely ferocity and conviction that Christian Bale had; he seems to have a faint sheen of sweat, as if the Batcave thermostat is up too high, and his attempts at droll humour and older-generation wisdom make his Batman look stately and marginal. Maybe we should get George Clooney back for the role.

    It falls to Gal Gadot’s Wonder Woman to cheer things up a little, especially early on, with her dramatic intervention in London against a bunch of self-declared “reactionary terrorists” who invade the Old Bailey and threaten an explosion with a bomb attached to a timer device with the traditional LCD countdown display. It will, they say, cause devastation for “four city-blocks”. (City blocks? What city are we in, again?) Wonder Woman winds up posing, with great aplomb, atop the justice statue. A nice touch. It is Wonder Woman who provides the link to the ancient world, and with it the surreality and exoticism.

    In the end, though, there is something ponderous and cumbersome about Justice League; the great revelation is very laborious and solemn and the tiresome post-credits sting is a microcosm of the film’s disappointment. Some rough justice is needed with the casting of this franchise.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    I don't believe a word of that review. I'm yet to see it but I think it's utter bollocks.

    And only praising Gal Gadot while trashing the others (especially Affleck), sounds like somebody has made a political-agenda-driven critic out of that article than written an actual review. I thoroughly enjoyed the trailers and I'm looking forward to the film.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,219
    Intermission

    Having a great time with the movie!!! :-) Dark but enjoyable.

    On to part two. :-)
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    bondjames wrote: »
    @Fire_and_Ice_Returns, what do you think would get Ben to leave? Just curious.

    Nothing concrete just his body language I have a gut feeling he is disappointed with how the films have turned out.
    He was on a decent career trajectory until he took on the role. Hopefully they hit it out of the park with JL, otherwise he may have cause to be concerned.

    I wouldn't claim this role in particular hurt Ben, as the majority seem to love him as Batman (some even saying he's the best ever) and despite a critical lukewarmness the films have done quite well financially. Regarding Ben's performance, he was hated at first but after the film came out critics and skeptical fans the world over couldn't roll out their apology carpets fast enough to make note of his work. He should be pleased with the response, as he is now a constant discussion point when fans debate the best Batman ever (I don't agree, but he's very liked).

    If anything is hurting Ben's dynamic with WB, it's the fallout from Live By Night, a film he helmed and which flopped massively, hurting all involved in a bad way. It took just over $20 million in the box office for its entire run and put WB out at least $75 million in return. If anything is straining what Ben and WB had, I'd say it's that film as it put their golden boy in danger of looking like he couldn't helm a film and steer it into success as he did with Argo just years earlier. That must have caused some unexpected tensions, and I think that's the biggest reason Ben also pulled out of directing the Batman solo film because he had his own doubts about his ability to handle such a massive film while also starring in said film at the same time. The pressures no doubt forced him to reconsider and gave him nerves about other creative projects he wanted to helm.


    As for his body language, I think a lot of that can be attributed to his personal life lately that's been far too publicized. His family is trying to put itself back together after a big and dramatic divorce sparked by bad decisions, he's trying to get clean from his addictions, and as all this way happening his passion project for WB flopped and the pressures of starring as Batman were always present at the very same moment. I'd look like shit too if that was my life.
    It's an interesting perspective for sure. I saw Live By Night and The Accountant. Both reasonably entertaining, but far from stellar. I still contend though that he was on an upwards almost 'golden boy' trajectory (after Argo and Gone Girl) prior to appearing as Batman.

    I realize he has his fans as the Bat, but unfortunately he has completely failed to impress me to date, and I can't imagine I'm the only one who has that opinion. Furthermore, I have a feeling that someone as artistic and creative as Matt Reeves will want to start entirely from scratch for his reported trilogy.

    Plus, as you note, his personal issues have been in the press and are proving to be a distraction. That includes some groping allegations, one of which he's fessed up to.
    ---

    @barryt007, that review reflects the impressions I get from the trailer. I hope they aren't confirmed when I see the film in a few days.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    edited November 2017 Posts: 24,219
    Okay. I'm geeking out!!! I had a blast. Want to see this movie again.
  • Posts: 19,339
    bondjames wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    @Fire_and_Ice_Returns, what do you think would get Ben to leave? Just curious.

    Nothing concrete just his body language I have a gut feeling he is disappointed with how the films have turned out.
    He was on a decent career trajectory until he took on the role. Hopefully they hit it out of the park with JL, otherwise he may have cause to be concerned.

    I wouldn't claim this role in particular hurt Ben, as the majority seem to love him as Batman (some even saying he's the best ever) and despite a critical lukewarmness the films have done quite well financially. Regarding Ben's performance, he was hated at first but after the film came out critics and skeptical fans the world over couldn't roll out their apology carpets fast enough to make note of his work. He should be pleased with the response, as he is now a constant discussion point when fans debate the best Batman ever (I don't agree, but he's very liked).

    If anything is hurting Ben's dynamic with WB, it's the fallout from Live By Night, a film he helmed and which flopped massively, hurting all involved in a bad way. It took just over $20 million in the box office for its entire run and put WB out at least $75 million in return. If anything is straining what Ben and WB had, I'd say it's that film as it put their golden boy in danger of looking like he couldn't helm a film and steer it into success as he did with Argo just years earlier. That must have caused some unexpected tensions, and I think that's the biggest reason Ben also pulled out of directing the Batman solo film because he had his own doubts about his ability to handle such a massive film while also starring in said film at the same time. The pressures no doubt forced him to reconsider and gave him nerves about other creative projects he wanted to helm.


    As for his body language, I think a lot of that can be attributed to his personal life lately that's been far too publicized. His family is trying to put itself back together after a big and dramatic divorce sparked by bad decisions, he's trying to get clean from his addictions, and as all this way happening his passion project for WB flopped and the pressures of starring as Batman were always present at the very same moment. I'd look like shit too if that was my life.
    It's an interesting perspective for sure. I saw Live By Night and The Accountant. Both reasonably entertaining, but far from stellar. I still contend though that he was on an upwards almost 'golden boy' trajectory (after Argo and Gone Girl) prior to appearing as Batman.

    I realize he has his fans as the Bat, but unfortunately he has completely failed to impress me to date, and I can't imagine I'm the only one who has that opinion. Furthermore, I have a feeling that someone as artistic and creative as Matt Reeves will want to start entirely from scratch for his reported trilogy.

    Plus, as you note, his personal issues have been in the press and are proving to be a distraction. That includes some groping allegations, one of which he's fessed up to.
    ---

    @barryt007, that review reflects the impressions I get from the trailer. I hope they aren't confirmed when I see the film in a few days.

    Fingers crossed matey !!

    I will wait until it comes onto Sky Cinema,next year.

  • edited November 2017 Posts: 2,107
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    Intermission

    Having a great time with the movie!!! :-) Dark but enjoyable.

    On to part two. :-)

    You, your country, with your intermissions ;)

    Sitting here, waiting for the movie start (without intermission, thank the maker!)

    Edit: and I wasn't very impressed. It was better than BvS, but I guess I'm tired of these big end of the world superhero movies. Some cgi villain with horns wants to destroy the worl as we know it. Same ol, same ol. The team worked well, but I yearn more of the stand alone films, with a single hero and no doomsday machines or portals of destruction.

  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    edited November 2017 Posts: 11,139
    Damn, Justice League is being described as a mess and Rotten Tomatoes trying to his the film's rotten score was beyond silly.

    I'm still seeing this on Friday and surprisingly still feel excited to see it.

    On another note...based on the reviews and based on numbers so far from territories this is released In, it's performing less than BvS and Suice Squad. It's crazy to me that Justice League is very unlikely to make it to a $Billion.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    I highly doubt the reviews are sincere. The "Marvel can do no wrong" team are either prejudiced against DC to sabotage their efforts, or they are all paid by Disney's Illuminati to provide such reviews. There have been many cases against this.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    doubleoego wrote: »
    I'm still seeing this on Friday and surprisingly still feel excited to see it.

    Same here.
  • edited November 2017 Posts: 2,107
    Few hour after seeing this, I think the problem is that it's basically the same team up film I feel has been done dozens of times only redressed with different costumed heroes.
    Though I loved the beginnig scenes with Batman and Wonder Woman. Made me want to see a stand alone Batfleck movie eve more. I went to see it without spoiling myself too much, so I didn't know about the insect minions. Because of that, I thought for a few moments that there was a Firefly cameo. It even made me want to see Man-bat in a Batman film. Prefer it would also have Batfleck still playing the role.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,219
    JUSTICE LEAGUE

    Justice-League-banner-325-600x338-2-600x338.jpg

    No need at this point to make my comments too lengthy, so here's the short version, without spoilers:

    1) I love the movie! Best of the JL bunch so far? You know, I might actually say that. (Yes, I know, the excitement of the moment can influence my decision.)

    2) I've read 120 issues of the JLA comic series that Grant Morrison started long ago and this film plays well within my expectations of a good JLA adaptation.

    3) All the key players share enough time on screen. The interactions between the characters feel like lifted from the comic book pages. Non-comic fans be warned: DC isn't Marvel.

    4) The music worked very well for me. Elfman surprised me in a very positive way.

    5) This isn't Age Of Ultron: no gigantic battles across superlarge cities literally lifted from the ground. Justice League keeps things balanced, spectacular but not out of control or outrageous. It's in many ways a smaller-scale film than the average Marvel output these days, so this isn't what Avengers was to Phase 1 of that series. Honestly though, that's a good thing in my book, a sigh of relief as it were. Superhero films have become synonymous with "epic wars". Well, perhaps that's why I gravitate more towards the X-Men and Batman. I profoundly respect the fact that they haven't exceeded their potential scope with this first JL film.

    6) Want to know if there's an after-credits scene?
    Yes, there is one. Stay till after the end credits.

    7) All the actors bring what they are expected to bring. Affleck, Gadot, ... they stick to what they did in previous films. Newcomers Momoa, Miller, Fisher, ... deliver fine performances too. I had a good time with them. They managed to get a few laughs out of me too.

    8) Recommended?

    Seriously? What do you expect me to say? Responses to MOS, BvS, SS and WW have all been very unpredictable, ranging from "great" to "obnoxiously bad". The only thing I can say in all fairness is that I wasn't bored once and I am frankly impressed with how well they have managed to capture the essence of the JLA comics. The general criticisms that I have heard after BvS seem irrelevant for this movie so that's probably a good thing. If you like DC comics and if you understand them, and if you're not by default going to go in hating Zack Snyder and literally everything they've done before in this series, you'll have a good time, like I did. For what it's worth, I've got tickets for the Friday showing and for next week too, so yes, I loved it. :)

    9) Biggest mistake you can make?

    To expect the same thing you've come to expect from Marvel. Avengers and JL are worlds apart, like Star Trek versus Star Wars. If Avengers is a rock 'n' roll concert, JL is a Greek Tragedy. And this isn't Disney, so play fair.

    In conclusion
    As a DC fan superfan, and speaking only for myself, I can safely say that JUSTICE LEAGUE is a film I can't wait to see again, that I have enjoyed from start to finish, that I see absolutely no problems with, that is a solid adventure and well made. The only thing that keeps me from going ecstatic here is the irrational backlash that BvS got back in 2015, which I have often read between the lines as suggesting that I'm somehow a lunatic for having had a reasonably good time with that film too. So you'll no doubt pardon my more defensive attitude. I give JL a 5/5, but that's just me. :)
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,219
    SharkBait wrote: »
    Few hour after seeing this, I think the problem is that it's basically the same team up film I feel has been done dozens of times only redressed with different costumed heroes.
    Though I loved the beginnig scenes with Batman and Wonder Woman. Made me want to see a stand alone Batfleck movie eve more. I went to see it without spoiling myself too much, so I didn't know about the insect minions. Because of that, I thought for a few moments that there was a Firefly cameo. It even made me want to see Man-bat in a Batman film. Prefer it would also have Batfleck still playing the role.

    @SharkBait
    You're referring to the
    parademons?

    They aren't explained, but they do exist in the comics.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    Great review, @DarthDimi! It's exactly how I expected the film to turn out.

    I'll be seeing it this weekend.
  • Posts: 2,107
    Yes, those creatures.

    And don't get me wrong. It was a fun film to watch. But nothing I haven't seen before. Well, except maybe in dceu.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,219
    Thank you, @ClarkDevlin.

    I can only honestly communicate how I feel about the film, which is purely positive. But I was very positive about MOS, BvS and WW too, and that seemed unacceptable at the time. Now I'm reading these mixed reviews about JL online. The world has stopped making sense to me.

    This is what I know: I've read 1000+ DC comics, including 100+ JLA comics, watched every single animated DC product out there, I've seen every single DC film, including some very obscure TV specials from decades ago, I've listened to every one of Kevin Smith's Fat-man On Batman podcasts multiple times, I've played the Arkham video games, I have posters of Batman comic covers on my walls, and I wear DC themed T-shirts in class when teaching. And I've been doing most of that for over two decades now. I think I know a thing or two about DC. I'm therefore surprised each time people try to get me convinced of the fact that anyone who enjoys, say, MOS, doesn't understand what DC is about. Perhaps I'm more forgiving, having gone through so many different iterations of the DC universe, when filmmakers put their own spin on the properties.

    But I truly think that a lot of the negative criticism comes from people who treat Marvel as the ultimate template for superhero stuff. Marvel is its own thing, and a good thing at that, and I really love the Avengers and X-Men films too. But it's a bit like treating James Bond and M:I the say way. Imagine if someone would argue that since both are spy series, they're also essentially the same and we therefore need the masks in the next Bond film too or else it's not a good "spy" film. We'd all be very angry. Well, people who expect every superhero film from now on to have massive hour long battles with aliens falling from the sky, or talking trees or at least 20 lead character who more or less get along in a very jokey, high school kinda way, are not going to enjoy JL, I promise you that.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,219
    SharkBait wrote: »
    Yes, those creatures.

    And don't get me wrong. It was a fun film to watch. But nothing I haven't seen before. Well, except maybe in dceu.

    A very fair assessment, @SharkBait.

    I guess I'm happy that we got a solid film which works well within its own universe. Maybe I'm easy to please. ;-)
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    Posts: 25,255
    @DarthDimi encouraging review I have heard there are some great DC moments
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,804
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    Okay. I'm geeking out!!! I had a blast. Want to see this movie again.

    That's ALL I needed to hear from you sir! Now I'm just waiting until I can see it here!
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,219
    What I forgot to emphasise is that it's a two hour long film and not a three hour ordeal. I admire a filmmaker who can turn in a superhero film under two hours these days.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,985
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    What I forgot to emphasise is that it's a two hour long film and not a three hour ordeal. I admire a filmmaker who can turn in a superhero film under two hours these days.

    The studio actually demanded that. It's why it falls right under the 2 hour limit.
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    And apparently it's suffering for it.

    If a film is going to be 2 hours long then it's story needs to reflect that and from those that have seen the film the story is a jaded mess.

    I'm expecting this film to at least be entertaining which I gather that it is and I'm especially excited for Superman; in fact he's the only reason why I want to see the film at all.

    I think it's sad that the DCEU is largely crap and at this point I dont expect anything remotely competent about the movies to trulybrepredentvand do justice to these iconic DC characters but if I can have a fun enough time whichbis sure I will then so be it. I'm seeing this tomorrow afternoon.
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    Posts: 25,255
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    What I forgot to emphasise is that it's a two hour long film and not a three hour ordeal. I admire a filmmaker who can turn in a superhero film under two hours these days.

    The studio actually demanded that. It's why it falls right under the 2 hour limit.

    I think WB realise with a lower run time they can fit more showings in on a day to day basis, there are few films that can get great box office with a 3 Hour running time.
  • Posts: 5,767
    @DarthDimi, that was a cool review. I read some really bad reviews, but your argumentation is a lot more solid. Hope you enjoy the next viewing as much :-)! I anyhow have to wait a little longer ´till it starts in my town.
  • Posts: 12,489
    I don’t watch a lot of comic-book films these days, but I am very interested in the Deathstroke movie that’s coming. I hope it includes the character’s origins because it’s a fascinating story.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    The embargo has been lifted. JL is at 40% on Rotten Tomatoes (makes sense now why it was blocked like some cheap 'B' horror flick). I'll be seeing it tomorrow and will post my thoughts.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,219
    I guess I'm an idiot.
    Having just read some new reviews, I think I'm going crazy. I've read "visually ugly" for example. Well, we are still getting Snyder's specific colour palette but I wouldn't call that ugly. Neither would I call the other visual elements ugly. JL radiates a chromatic spectrum far different from the happy, feel-good colours we keep seeing in many modern blockbusters. JL feels more like what's on the printed page: not real, not from this world, belonging to Gotham and Metropolis and Central City.

    I guess the DCEU is too niche. Maybe people find the style, the mythology and the stories difficult, strange, hard to get into. Maybe only those who also buy DC animated films and DC comics can appreciate the effort.

    Judging from that 40% on RT, I think that whatever they do, the DCEU will forever be locked away in critical obscurity. For once I'm glad I belong to the secret underground "Court Of Owls" type of fan society. ;-)

    Anyway, I'm getting ready for a lot of backlash. :)
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    Judging from that 40% on RT, I think that whatever they do, the DCEU will forever be locked away in critical obscurity.

    Wonder Woman says otherwise.

  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    edited November 2017 Posts: 40,985
    I think the Universe would be better off giving the directors a little more control. It's when the studio interference kicks in that things turn sour, and is likely why WW was both a raging box office and critical success, while the others are only in the latter category for the most part.

    Rumor: Matt Reeves is eyeing Jake Gyllenhaal to play Batman if Affleck does bail:

    http://www.slashfilm.com/the-batman-actor/
  • Posts: 3,333
    For me, every superhero movie is lowbrow entertainment. I really cannot understand how these movies can be critiqued as anything other than mindless comic-book nonsense. It's a shame that Warner Bros has to resort to hiding its RT rating for JL due to the current idiotic spoon-fed masses that need the approval of a digital pompous personality that they've never met (probably never even heard of) in order that they can be given a green light to go buy themselves a ticket and enjoy a movie. No wonder Hollywood is on its knees right now. I wouldn't be surprised if these types of movies are the last gasp deathrattle of an industry that no one seems to believe in anymore, especially without an approval rating. There's certainly a lot less quality movies coming out of Hollywood at the moment. The past 10 years has got to be the worse on record. The irony is, that these so-called critics are probably writing themselves out of a job, because soon they'll be no major movies being made. Of course, if JL flops there will be a knock on effect whereby WB will cut back its budget on another movie, or shelves half a dozen smaller ones it was going ahead with until the critics got to sharpen their pens.

    Despite this, I truly hope JL does phenomenally well at the BO. Only so that other movies can continue to get made.
Sign In or Register to comment.