DC Comics Cinematic Universe (2013 - present)

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  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    edited March 2021 Posts: 8,218
    I always considered the Doomsday creation and release to be an immediate physical manifestation of his "metahuman thesis" mentioned earlier; the same thesis that the Senator refuted, as she didn't trust him with development of defenses with it in mind. I got the impression that he always intended to unleash Doomsday as an example of that theory - essentially, of how right he is - regardless of whether Superman died in his battle with Batman. He acquires the means to create it long before his rather muddled plot to have the titular titans clash kicks into high gear, after all.

    But the problem is that it's mostly suggested by dialogue and the intent is mostly lost amidst Eisenberg's performance. There's very little in the way of subtlety to pick up on. Hackman (and even Spacey, to his credit) were able to suggest a lot more in their quiet stares or wry smiles than any amount of quick-fire ramblings that Eisenberg gave us.

    I'm not ragging on the guy, as he's generally a good actor, but I think he was badly cast here.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,188
    I think Eisenberg is fine casting wise. If he played Luthor more like Zuckerberg from The Social Network I think that could have worked.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,218
    I think Eisenberg is fine casting wise. If he played Luthor more like Zuckerberg from The Social Network I think that could have worked.

    Maybe. It's unfortunate that he gave us what he gave us, either way.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,188
    For sure, I put that all on Snyder, and it seems he realized how unpopular that take was given that he featured Eisenberg in the more familiar version of Lex in JL. Though it’s kind of silly to think brief prison time suddenly made him have an affinity for three piece suits.


  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,427
    mtm wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    I felt the chaotic network of scenes a bit more cohesive in this version, with more emphasis on Luthor's character too. In the theatrical cut, I felt like I was being ping-ponged between several stand-alone stories in a film that somehow conflated them into big experience, while the Ultimate Cut, for me at least, brought a little more connective tissue. But it still is somewhat bloated, I will agree there.

    I can’t get past the way Eisenberg plays Luthor with his weird little tics. Having just rewatched it two nights ago, it’s hard ignore how utterly dumb both Batman and Superman come off as the script lays out. The confrontation is even absurd because there’s one point where Supes is like “I NEED TO TALK TO YOU” but then pushes Batman several yards down. For every opportunity Superman has to deescalate the situation he just lets them pass by or just willfully escalates the situation. And these are supposed to be the most intelligent people on Earth.

    Yes, I watched that last week and it's so hard to think 'why have you stopped trying to talk to him? Your mum is in deadly danger and suddenly you're more interested in beating this guy up?'.
    Also I'm not even sure I understood why Lex wanted him to kill Batman. Batman hasn't really got involved in Lex's affairs (as far as Lex is aware, anyway). I guess maybe it was to make Superman look bad or something, but even then it's not terribly clear (unless I missed something, which I may have).

    Lex as counting on Batman killing Superman with the kryptonite. When that didn’t work, he used Doomsday as his backup (though the way the movie presents it, Doomsday would have been born anyway?)

    Oh okay. How does he know Batman has Kryptonite? In fact, how does Batman get Kryptonite? I only watched it the other night and I don't remember :D

    He also doesn't act like "my plan is foiled!" when Superman turns up after the fight to meet him in the spaceship- he just mentions how he hasn't got Batman's head and seems more gleeful that he gets to kill Martha. I guess there's a bit of poker face going on, but poker face isn't great storytelling in a movie.

    Why does he create Doomsday? As you can see I didn't really follow most of it :)

    Batman stole the kryptonite from Lex’s lab.

    Is there a scene where that happens? Really don’t recall that.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,188
    It happens off screen! We only see what happened after the fact with Lex arriving at the lab already broken in and the kryptonite stolen, and him giving a subtle smile like “yes, all going according to plan”.

    It’s at 3:15

  • matt_umatt_u better known as Mr. Roark
    edited March 2021 Posts: 4,343
    Actually they cut a line from Lex when he says “Obeys only me!”, referring to Doomsday, right before the “Now blood of my blood” line. So in their minds, since Doomsday is made after his DNA, Lex believed wrongly that he would’ve been able to control the kryptonian deformity. You can actually watch the scene from a BTS documentary on the blu ray.

    It’s cool to think that the real original Doomsday that the kryptonian fought in the first place is still around destroying things in the universe.

    Anyway, ZSJL is officially the best reviewed Snyder film on RT of all his career, and the score keeps on getting better... and all this happens to a movie that it shouldn't even have existed in a normal world.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited March 2021 Posts: 16,427
    Oh yes, I remember the batarang in the plinth bit now :)
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,188
    If Superman acts like Superman of proper, like actually smiling, being jovial, and all around a SUPER man, I will give JL a small pass. It shouldn’t have taken THREE films to get there. Superman is probably my favorite superhero, so to see that boring sad sack from MoS/BvS replaced by the Superman I love will be gravy.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,187
    mtm wrote: »
    Okay: I don't find a baddie who wants to destroy things just because he's mad to be very satisfying.

    Agreed. Then again, Ledger's Joker comes close, except he's not just destroying stuff; he's putting society in a petri dish to perform his little social experiments on.

    Luthor's plot is one of the least satisfying elements of BvS for me. It feels like there's a hint of an interesting plot hidden somewhere but it got lost in editing or whatever.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,427
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Okay: I don't find a baddie who wants to destroy things just because he's mad to be very satisfying.

    Agreed. Then again, Ledger's Joker comes close, except he's not just destroying stuff; he's putting society in a petri dish to perform his little social experiments on.

    Yes true, even then it's not a film I love.
    I can't think of any Bond villain who's been doing bad stuff just because he's crazy. Silva possibly comes the closest but even he has a plan for revenge (plus he doesn't mind making a little money too).
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,188
    I can see small things I recognize in Eisenberg’s Lex if I just squint my eyes. Like his repulsion of a savior being an alien. I could easily see Eisenberg be the classic billionaire version Lex that looks straight up at Superman and says “WE don’t need you, alien. We created the pyramids. We created our own civilization. We can take care of our own, without your help. All this planet needs is human ingenuity, and you’re ruining it.”

    You know who would have really killed it in the role? Michael Rosenbaum. Smallville wasn’t a great show by any stretch of the imagination, but he made an AMAZING Lex Luthor who felt like a believable person that you can understand. I would have loved to cast him as Lex, like Judi Dench back as M in spite of continuity. He really was that good.


  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,218
    You know who would have really killed it in the role? Michael Rosenbaum. Smallville wasn’t a great show by any stretch of the imagination, but he made an AMAZING Lex Luthor who felt like a believable person that you can understand. I would have loved to cast him as Lex, like Judi Dench back as M in spite of continuity. He really was that good.



    He's another one that I should have mentioned previously!
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,427
    One thing that does annoy me, having watched BvS last week, is that they have Amy Adams as Lois Lane; which is a brilliant bit of casting, but she's reduced to simpering after Superman all the time. I just don't get why you'd have Amy Adams and think that's all she's good for.
    If she had played Lois in Returns she might actually have made her likeable.

    And take note anyone in the 'who should play 007?' thread: they cast a ginger as a character known for being raven haired! And no one noticed! :)
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    Posts: 25,177
  • edited March 2021 Posts: 1,394
    mtm wrote: »
    One thing that does annoy me, having watched BvS last week, is that they have Amy Adams as Lois Lane; which is a brilliant bit of casting, but she's reduced to simpering after Superman all the time. I just don't get why you'd have Amy Adams and think that's all she's good for.
    If she had played Lois in Returns she might actually have made her likeable.

    And take note anyone in the 'who should play 007?' thread: they cast a ginger as a character known for being raven haired! And no one noticed! :)

    Well you clearly never watched the film as shes crucial to the investigation into Luthor and his organisation as well as finding out that the guy in the wheelchair did not infact detonate the bomb at the court hearing.She also helps convince Batman that Supes isnt a killer.

    My advice is not to bother watching the new cut of JL.You clearly have no interest in the universe that Zack Snyder has created so why bother?
  • Posts: 1,394
    For sure, I put that all on Snyder, and it seems he realized how unpopular that take was given that he featured Eisenberg in the more familiar version of Lex in JL. Though it’s kind of silly to think brief prison time suddenly made him have an affinity for three piece suits.



    You do remember that they shaved his head at the end of BVS? ( Thereby completing the traditional luthor look ).And just because we didnt see him wear a three piece suit in BVS doesnt prove he doesnt like them.Like Superman,Snyder is depicting these characters on their journey to becoming the traditional versions of what they end up being.

    And i find it hilarious that you think Snyder would alter his vision based on critical reaction.His DC films have clearly stood the test of the time and turned out to be very popular given the monumental feat of the fans getting his cut of JL released.
  • Posts: 1,394

    Awesome! Thanks for posting that.
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    Posts: 25,177
    AstonLotus wrote: »

    Awesome! Thanks for posting that.

    Its a great little interview, I am slightly jealous of Tyrone. Snyder is so appreciative of his audience credit to him.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,188
    AstonLotus wrote: »
    For sure, I put that all on Snyder, and it seems he realized how unpopular that take was given that he featured Eisenberg in the more familiar version of Lex in JL. Though it’s kind of silly to think brief prison time suddenly made him have an affinity for three piece suits.



    You do remember that they shaved his head at the end of BVS? ( Thereby completing the traditional luthor look ).And just because we didnt see him wear a three piece suit in BVS doesnt prove he doesnt like them.Like Superman,Snyder is depicting these characters on their journey to becoming the traditional versions of what they end up being.

    It’s not just the sudden affinity for three piece suits, it’s also the erasure of his awkward personality tics that were prevalent all the way until his last scene in BvS (DINGDINDINGDINGDINGDING...).
    And i find it hilarious that you think Snyder would alter his vision based on critical reaction.

    He actually did. He and Terrio have been on record over the years regarding having to change their original plans for JL after the negative reception BvS received. Luthor’s characterization was one of the many wildly unpopular things about that film.

    From the sounds of the JL we are getting, it does sound like Snyder addressed those criticisms and considered them in his work to make a more likable film and it seems to have worked. That makes total sense because when he made BvS he was given the keys to the DCEU, but by JL suddenly he had to work even harder to prove he could deliver after the critical and financial underperformance of BvS. Good on him I say.
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    Posts: 25,177
    I always attributed much of Lex's erratic behaviour in BvS was down to Darkseid being in his head. I thought that immediately when watching it at the cinema on first viewing.
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    edited March 2021 Posts: 13,978
    This showed up in the Youtube feed, and I thought some of you here might be interested, if you hadn't seen it already.

  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited March 2021 Posts: 16,427
    AstonLotus wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    One thing that does annoy me, having watched BvS last week, is that they have Amy Adams as Lois Lane; which is a brilliant bit of casting, but she's reduced to simpering after Superman all the time. I just don't get why you'd have Amy Adams and think that's all she's good for.
    If she had played Lois in Returns she might actually have made her likeable.

    And take note anyone in the 'who should play 007?' thread: they cast a ginger as a character known for being raven haired! And no one noticed! :)

    Well you clearly never watched the film as shes crucial to the investigation into Luthor and his organisation as well as finding out that the guy in the wheelchair did not infact detonate the bomb at the court hearing.She also helps convince Batman that Supes isnt a killer.

    Having a couple of plot things to do isn't the same as having a decent role in the film.
    AstonLotus wrote: »
    My advice is not to bother watching the new cut of JL.You clearly have no interest in the universe that Zack Snyder has created so why bother?

    Steady. No-one's saying you're wrong to enjoy it, you don't have to try and attack anyone who enjoys it less.
    This showed up in the Youtube feed, and I thought some of you here might be interested, if you hadn't seen it already.


    That's a terrific batsuit. What's the story with this? Some proper actors in there: that's Doug Jones as the Riddler isn't it? And is that Michael Madsen? Shame about the guy playing Joker though.
  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    Posts: 4,638
    https://www.cbr.com/justice-league-zack-snyder-ryan-reynolds-green-lantern-cameo/

    Zack Snyder wanted Ryan Reynolds to make a Green Lantern cameo.
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    edited March 2021 Posts: 25,177
    Digital Red Carpet Premier streaming live...

    ----
    Edited: Hopefully I will be watching the film in 4 and a half hours.
    ---
    Edited: 3 minutes in this is already amazing.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited March 2021 Posts: 16,427
    Well it's on there! I watched the opening- it's a good, engaging opening sequence. The aspect ratio is initially a bit strange but as with all ratios you get used to it pretty quickly.

    Confusingly NOW TV seems to have decided to rebrand today so the app was a bit tricky to locate because it looks different! :)
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    edited March 2021 Posts: 25,177
    I am totally locked in, I am getting Epic Movie vibes from this film.

    Holy Rusted Metal... Wonder Woman ^:)^ :-O
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,218
    Looks like I'll have to split up my viewing into two segments due to work, but I am looking forward to doing one half tonight and one half tomorrow. :)
  • matt_umatt_u better known as Mr. Roark
    edited March 2021 Posts: 4,343
    The film is awesome. The scale and scope is beyond epic. Even heartbreaking. I had chills when Cyborg said "I'm not broken... and I'm not alone".

    This is Snyder's magnus opus.
  • Posts: 9,848
    This showed up in the Youtube feed, and I thought some of you here might be interested, if you hadn't seen it already.

    An honest to God’s fantastic fan film I nearly put my review here and on last movie you watched... I might still
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