DC Comics Cinematic Universe (2013 - present)

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  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,182
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    I missed Everybody Knows at the start of the movie but the beginning is so much better in this version than in the theatrical cut so I don't mind...
    Was Amber Heard doing a British accent by the way? Can't remember that from either JL or Aquaman...

    She didn’t have the accent in the theatrical cut or Aquaman. I’m pretty sure it’s Snyder’s choice, and that she likely had to redub her lines for the theatrical cut. A ton of the Aquabro stuff feels like Snyder trying to do Thor with all the British accents and faux poetic dialogue.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,216
    So, all done.

    I enjoyed it a lot. I split my viewing into two chunks out of necessity for other things, but I would probably have enjoyed sitting through the whole thing. It really didn't need to be four hours, though. I know Snyder felt like he could pack as much into this as he wanted (due to the fact that it's unlikely to get a sequel), but the epilogue felt really unnecessary and it kind of took away from the satisfaction of seeing everyone united during the finale. I'd echo my earlier disappointment with the music choices and Holkenborg's score, then only limited to the first half but now extended to the full film. I was extremely excited to hear it but it just didn't impress me.

    Those bits aside, it's a good ride. All the characters are well fleshed out and the stakes feel greater. The team come together in an organic way and that alone means the big moments towards the end are more satisfying. The villains are much improved; Steppenwolf actually has a motivation beyond the "bad guy must do bad things" drive that propelled him in the Whedon film. Darkseid looks great.

    There's countless great moments in there, and the expanded role for Jeremy Irons was greatly appreciated - I could watch him proclaim his worries through metaphor all day.

    All in all, a few nitpicks but ultimately well worth it and I look forward to seeing it again.

    Good for you, Zack Snyder.

    VF1321_Snyder_OPENER.jpg
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    Posts: 25,087
    The score was a mixed bag for me, I liked the music during anything Amazon related. I was not a fan of what Elfman did, both scores were average at this point though further rewatch of the Snyder Cut may alter my opinion.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,216
    The score was a mixed bag for me, I liked the music during anything Amazon related. I was not a fan of what Elfman did, both scores were average at this point though further rewatch of the Snyder Cut may alter my opinion.

    The tribal drums stood out to me on account of how loud they were. It's better than the Elfman score, if only for the sole reason that while it didn't stand out or impress me, it never actively took me out of the film like the Elfman score did. That's an improvement unto itself.

    Though I must admit, the female wailing used for the Amazons (and later Wonder Woman herself) was a bizarre choice considering how strong Wonder Woman's existing theme already is.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,182
    That female wailing in the score with the slow mo photography became comical after a certain point.
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    edited March 2021 Posts: 25,087
    Rewatching the Snyder Cut this time with Cinema Zoom Level 16 on to fill up my TV screen more so far so good, nothing severely cropped. I hope a wide-screen version becomes available also if only to give us the option.
  • Agent007391Agent007391 Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, Start
    edited March 2021 Posts: 7,854
    Having just finished the Snyder Cut I have to say, I'm a little underwhelmed. I liked the movie, don't get me wrong. This truly is the best Snyder-directed DC movie, and I include Watchmen under that umbrella, but I can't say this is a movie worth the hype it's been given.

    Let me get my negatives out of the way first. This movie did not need to be 4 hours long. There are a few good character beats, but there's just as much unnecessary padding that just feels like Snyder wanted to include every little bit he shot whether it meant something or not. For every moment of Barry Allen saving the woman of his dreams, there's a Norwegian... funeral? Whatever the hell that was. Longer film does not equal better film if the length is only so because the director likes to waffle.

    There's also some Whedon footage I miss. Batman's "save one" pep talk with the Flash is gone, which was a moment I liked. It showed the heroic version of Batman that Snyder has said is buried now resurfacing, the side that makes you believe this Batman did have a Robin at one time. As well it now seems as though Lois Lane just up and coincidentally stops Superman's post-resurrection rampage against the League, while the theatrical cut had Batman intentionally bring her in. Also, while some may consider Superman's "Do you bleed?" call back in that section nonsensical, it always worked for me as Superman basically saying "I remember you" by repeating something only Batman would know. Removing that Russian family and taking out a few of the unnecessary jokes like when Aquaman is sitting on the Lasso of Truth doesn't bother me, but some of Whedon's additions either strengthened characters or changed contrivances into plot points, and some of it is sorely missed.

    Now to the positives. With the exception of Wonder Woman, who has two solo films under her belt, and Superman, who doesn't even appear until the three-quarter mark, every member of the League is fleshed out better. I have personal reservations against Ray Fisher for his actions during the investigation he instigated, but he plays Cyborg's depression and need for acceptance well. He's the character who's changed the most between the theatrical and the Snyder Cut, and he's the only one I feel has truly been improved. Aquaman, too, has a bit more to do and doesn't just seem like some barbarian dudebro (though some of that still pokes through every once in awhile). The Flash is a bit less of a blatant clone of Spider-Man from Civil War and feels more in line with his comics counterpart and the earlier seasons of the Arrowverse show. Unlike the theatrical, it's easier to see Batman's struggle to become what he promised he would after Superman's death, and to see him shifting back from the loner with a chip on his shoulder to the man who led a Bat-family at one point in his career. His interactions with Alfred, one of the few highlights of Batman V Superman, are once again a component of his character that Snyder does absolute justice to.

    Darkseid, while not the true menace that Snyder wants you to believe he is and that the character has been in the comics and other adaptations for decades, is still a good addition. He doesn't do much, but he works as a tease for greater things to come, easily the one thing I'd like to see this film get a sequel for, even though I seriously doubt it will.
    Side note: Watching Darkseid in the flashback and later Steppenwolf in the film proper get their asses handed to them very much undercuts the actual threat they're supposed to possess. Say what you will about Marvel, at least they built Thanos as a legitimate threat and had him beat the crap out of the Hulk within the first minutes of Infinity War, proving himself as someone not to be trifled with.

    Of all the characters added to this version, I've got to say the one that I've completely 180'd my opinion on is Jared Leto's Joker. Unlike the in-name-only creature that David Ayer put in Suicide Squad, he actually feels like the Joker now, something I wish had been done from day one.

    Can I say this was a better film than the theatrical? Yes. Can I say this was a good film? Yes. Can I say it was worth everything the internet and the fanbase has put into promoting it as the be all/end all of superhero movies? Hell no. There's too much padding, the opening half hour or so feels like a damn long form music video, there are plot contrivances that the theatrical cut fixed, but overall the characterizations, the entertainment value and just the plot as a whole are so much better than the theatrical version ever hoped to be. It's not as different from the theatrical as it was hyped to be, but it's still a better interpretation of those events.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,216
    That's a great review, @Agent007391.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,182
    The thing I really wanted from the Snyder cut was to get a version of this film that he would have put out in theaters in 2017 had he not left the project. This is not that at all. This is Snyder being allowed by HBO Max to go as long as he likes regardless of whether it would have been viable for theaters.
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    edited March 2021 Posts: 25,087
    Going forward I will watch the Snyder Cut in 16:9 aspect ratio, for much of the film the extra screen real-estate is not necessary IMO.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,182
    I never had a problem with the 4:3 ratio. It’s kinda cool that a big studio movie does this. Only indie movies like THE LIGHTHOUSE have done it lately. But if Snyder does a 16:9 cropped version, I hope it’s one he approves. There’s parts of the film that would need to tilt up rather than simply zoom in.
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    edited March 2021 Posts: 25,087
    I never had a problem with the 4:3 ratio. It’s kinda cool that a big studio movie does this. Only indie movies like THE LIGHTHOUSE have done it lately. But if Snyder does a 16:9 cropped version, I hope it’s one he approves. There’s parts of the film that would need to tilt up rather than simply zoom in.

    On first viewing of watching the film cropped in 16:9 it appears the film was framed to accommodate this format for the most part. (stating the obvious)
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,182
    A lot of it was, but I could tell from 4:3 that adjustments would have to be made because you'd be cropping out someone's eyes in some shots.

    More thoughts:

    Superman's arrival at the climax was pretty underwhelming. He's not a character, just a muscle to beat the crap out of Steppenwolf.

    Fake mustache or not, at least Whedon made Superman actually feel like SUPERMAN. In ways that was more than just punching. He got the jovial attitude, he actually interacted with the team. The only aspect of those that the Snyder footage shared with Whedon was that he had Cavill kind of smile at parts instead of looking like the sad sack he usually looked in MoS/BvS.
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    Posts: 25,087
    A lot of it was, but I could tell from 4:3 that adjustments would have to be made because you'd be cropping out someone's eyes in some shots.

    More thoughts:

    Superman's arrival at the climax was pretty underwhelming. He's not a character, just a muscle to beat the crap out of Steppenwolf.

    Fake mustache or not, at least Whedon made Superman actually feel like SUPERMAN. In ways that was more than just punching. He got the jovial attitude, he actually interacted with the team. The only aspect of those that the Snyder footage shared with Whedon was that he had Cavill kind of smile at parts instead of looking like the sad sack he usually looked in MoS/BvS.

    You can definitely tell which scenes are new as Zach uses the full height of the frame and it does not work in 16:9. Steppenwolf and DeSaad scenes for example.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,182
    The Knightmare scene especially. So many close ups with the characters faces already filling the frame, a 16:9 version would make it feel practically claustrophobic.
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    Posts: 25,087
    The Knightmare scene especially. So many close ups with the characters faces already filling the frame, a 16:9 version would make it feel practically claustrophobic.

    Yeah I was wrong watching the film again now and reverted back to 4:3.

    Superman in this version because of the strength of the film I at one point completely forgot about him where is Whedon's version I was waiting for him to turn up.

    I am happy with everything Superman related in the Snyder Cut.
  • Posts: 1,394
    I watched it all in one go and absolutley loved it? It is just so much MORE,than the Whedon cut.Action scenes that were decent before are now so much more suspenseful. The Wonder Woman rescue of the hostages was much more tense and same goes for Steppenwolfs attack on Thymiscira ( They show that a LOT of Amazons died in that battle when the tomb crashed into the sea ).

    Bruce Wayne is back to the being serious ( Unlike the theatrical cut where Whedon tried to turn him into Tony Stark ) and just about everybody has much more depth.The humour that is there is a lot more subtle and more effective ( Less is more ).

    I would rate this film now as being better than both Infinty War and Endgame combined!
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    edited March 2021 Posts: 25,087
    On my third watch of the Snyder Cut, this has some of the best Imagery ever in a Super Hero Film. This movie is amazing though I am a die Hard 40 year DC Fan.

    Supermans flying elbow :-O
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,216
    On my third watch of the Snyder Cut, this has some of the best Imagery ever in a Super Hero Film. This movie is amazing though I am a die Hard 40 year DC Fan.

    I'm really glad that this has made you a happy fan, @Fire_and_Ice_Returns :)
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    Posts: 25,087
    On my third watch of the Snyder Cut, this has some of the best Imagery ever in a Super Hero Film. This movie is amazing though I am a die Hard 40 year DC Fan.

    I'm really glad that this has made you a happy fan, @Fire_and_Ice_Returns :)

    Cheers mate its all relative.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,216
    On my third watch of the Snyder Cut, this has some of the best Imagery ever in a Super Hero Film. This movie is amazing though I am a die Hard 40 year DC Fan.

    I'm really glad that this has made you a happy fan, @Fire_and_Ice_Returns :)

    Cheers mate its all relative.

    Take the happiness where you can get it, these days!
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    Posts: 25,087
    On my third watch of the Snyder Cut, this has some of the best Imagery ever in a Super Hero Film. This movie is amazing though I am a die Hard 40 year DC Fan.

    I'm really glad that this has made you a happy fan, @Fire_and_Ice_Returns :)

    Cheers mate its all relative.

    Take the happiness where you can get it, these days!

    Exactly, work has been none stop as I am a front line worker, I train 5 days a week in the gym to keep myself focused and motivated though when a good film comes along it is a welcome escapist distraction. All the better when the film resonates on a emotional level.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited March 2021 Posts: 16,363
    I was quite enjoying it- I thought Wonder Woman in the terrorist thing in London was rather good- but I'm nearly two hours in now and it's a bit flat. Just lots of portentous talking against greenscreen all pitched at about the same level. And apart from a quick glimpse in the opening credits I haven't seen Batman yet. Nearly two hours and no Batman! I'd also forgotten how miscast the guy who plays the Flash is: he just can't do that whimsy stuff they want him to. There's a lot of it I'm kind of mentally editing out as I watch it: 'don't need that, don't need that'. Like the first scene we meet Aquaman he tells Bruce to go away and flounces off into the sea, and then -even though both people in the scene have left(!)- the scene keeps on going for at least another minute or so as some women sing for ages. Nothing happens, it's just longer.
    I might pick up on it later- it's not a disaster but the rather one-note tone means I need a break I think.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    edited March 2021 Posts: 24,172
    I disagree about Ezra Miller. Not only is he an amazing actor (The Perks Of Being A Wallflower, We Need To Talk About Kevin), I like him as Barry. I think he's got the comic relief thing down well. Perhaps that part is better suited for a Hal Jordan GL but in his absence, sure, why not Flash. And Miller does it very well IMO.

    I pretty much went crazy when I saw
    a certain vehicle from The Dark Knight Returns.

    I haven't been around long enough to be as longtime a DC fan as @Fire_and_Ice_Returns 😄, but I too felt my DC fandom served well by this film. I just finished watching it a second time, still in its 1.33:1 ratio, and I kept looking forward to what was coming next. The epilogue may, in fact, be my favorite section of the film. It's basically a clip show of fan-service moments. 🙂
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    Posts: 25,087
    @DarthDimi that shot near the end is amazing, I noticed said vehicle.
  • Agent007391Agent007391 Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, Start
    Posts: 7,854
    See, I thought it was a little too... it's one of those things that looks wrong in live action, and I say that knowing it was just Ben Affleck on a green screen.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited March 2021 Posts: 16,363
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    I disagree about Ezra Miller. Not only is he an amazing actor (The Perks Of Being A Wallflower, We Need To Talk About Kevin), I like him as Barry. I think he's got the comic relief thing down well. Perhaps that part is better suited for a Hal Jordan GL but in his absence, sure, why not Flash. And Miller does it very well IMO.

    Ah well you've made me think of someone like Ryan Reynolds doing the comic relief now, and Miller's doing even worse in the comparison! :D

    I've lots of people compare the (curiously smelly?) Motherboxes to the Infinity Stones, which isn't wrong of course, but I think the Motherboxes plot is actually a bit better than the Infinity plot- it's quite a nice idea that the baddies leave them behind after being defeated.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,172
    @DarthDimi that shot near the end is amazing, I noticed said vehicle.

    I mean, I nearly lost it. I have had dreams of a live-action adaptation of that book. Something tells me Snyder could pull it off. Well, he kinda did a part of the book already. 😉 But until that day, I'll just have to stick to the book and the animated film. I can dream, though. Affleck's Batman in a DKR adaptation... oh boy.
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    Posts: 25,087
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    @DarthDimi that shot near the end is amazing, I noticed said vehicle.

    I mean, I nearly lost it. I have had dreams of a live-action adaptation of that book. Something tells me Snyder could pull it off. Well, he kinda did a part of the book already. 😉 But until that day, I'll just have to stick to the book and the animated film. I can dream, though. Affleck's Batman in a DKR adaptation... oh boy.

    In the meantime its great having the little Easter eggs and references in dialogue in any DC film.
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    edited March 2021 Posts: 25,087
    Cavill's Superman is menacing in this film, I am very much in favour of showing extremes of characterization in a film series it offer so much more depth than a safe interpretation of a character.

    Superman's shadow sides are as scary as it gets.

    Superman for 99.9999999999% of the time holds back, his true power is scary.
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