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Snyder had the right idea,to completely forget the past and create a brand new mythology while staying true to the characters.It’s why his trilogy of DC movies will stand the test of time.
Respect the past but embrace the future.
"Staying true" somehow includes turning Superman into a mopey crybaby and turning Batman into a straight up murderer? He needs to read more than just The Dark Knight Returns once in awhile, a book he completely misinterpreted.
Man of Steel will stand the test of time, the other two won't.
If you like. I much preferred the feel of WW84 to Justice League though: I like a bit of fun from these things; much like a Bond movie in fact.
I agree with that, even if I like Returns.
Funny.I seem to remember Christopher Reeves Superman crying like a baby in the first two Donner movies.I also remember him crushing a depowered Zods hand throwing him to his death in Superman 2.And at least Cavills Superman doesn’t date rape Lois Lane,make her forget she had sex with him and then leave earth to “ search krypton for survivors “ to avoid child welfare payments.
And once again,Ben Afflecks Batman is not the first on screen version to kill.Michael Keatons Batman kills like crazy in the two Tim Burton movies.My favourite example is him sticking a bomb down a goons pants and sneering as he punches him over a railing and the goon explodes!
Val Kilmers Batman intentionally kills Two Face in Batman Forever by throwing up coins as Two Face is flipping his own coin,this causes him to fall to his death.
Christian Bales Batman kills on at least two occasions.He blows up fake Ras al ghuls lair which kills a whole bunch of ninjas.In Rises,he fires missiles at Talia al ghuls truck ,killing the driver instantly,and Talia dies soon after the truck crashes.
Imagine a scene in a Batman film as follows:
Alfred: "Was it a good night, master Bruce?"
Batman: "Streets are clean. No one's dead. It was a good night, Alfred."
Cut to a large hospital room with dozens of thugs bleeding out, missing an eye, scarred for life. ;-)
Haha! Exactly! :))
Yeah people seem to have selective memories when it comes to different interpretations of the likes of Batman and Superman.A common complaint of MOS is that Supes is responsible for all the collateral damage in metropolis which is ridiculous since he spent the last hour of the movie fighting off an alien invasion of earth.People seem to forget that Christopher Reeves Superman flew directly into Metropolis and challenged three super powered beings to a fight right in the middle of the city,putting everyone in danger.Double standards,but Reeve gets a pass due to childhood nostalgia.
Even if Batman has a no kill rule,it’s going to be inevitable that he does kill in the midst of armed combat.A great example of this is the warehouse fight in BVS where he’s fighting heavily armed mercenaries with the life of a hostage at stake.He couldn’t afford to pull his punches here.
But I did watch MoS again recently with that argument in my head and I thought that it felt like there wasn't a moment where he got much choice about where to fight- he did smash a few people through bits of Smallville which felt a bit like a choice, but otherwise I didn't find it to be too bad a strike against the film.
Except in the case of SUPERMAN RETURNS it was poorly done. It's not proof that a Donner style film couldn't have worked for modern audiences, it's proof that Bryan Singer was a terrible choice of a director for Superman, who seemed to have nothing new to add to the table besides a bastard child. He really should have just stuck to X-MEN 3.
IMO, the closest thing to capture the spirit of the first film by Richard Donner was Sam Raimi's SPIDER-MAN from 2002, and that was a HUGE hit for the 2000s. It showed audiences can still embrace a light and fun optimistic superhero. But instead, WB looked at the darker and grittier THE DARK KNIGHT and said to themselves "that's how we'll model our new Superman!" and it's been awful since.
Yes, I guess: I think it's a bit more original than that too though. I think those Spider Man films are possibly still the best superhero films so far for my money to be honest.
I do think WW84 is in the spirit of the Reeve Superman films- possibly closer than than the Raimis. But it's not as well-done: it bags and sags where it needs tightening up; and it's actually quite unpleasant to look at, full of dark, dull gloomy interiors. The set where WW has her climactic fight with Wiig is just horrible.
I agree with most of what you said except the part where you say they modelled their new Superman on the TDK.MOS isn’t dark,Superman is still a ultimately a good person who wants to help people but they took a more believable look at what it would be like for a person who grew up having super powers but had to hide them until the time was right.
The final scene where he joins the daily planet and “ meets Lois “ for the first time and Hans zimmers score blasts into the credits I always found very inspiring.
And I meant to say they modeled after Nolan via BATMAN BEGINS. It was in 2008 after TDK became a billion dollar smash hit that the president of WB announced the intention to reboot Superman in the same dark and gritty tone as Nolan’s Batman, and they did that by hiring Nolan himself to “godfather” the film as a writer and producer.
That’s less so for BvS and JL, because with those Snyder went more towards the operatic approach he used in WATCHMEN. Lots of slow mo, needle drops, etc.
By that logic the ending of Superman 2 ( The version released in cinemas at least ) rings false since Reeves Superman crushes Zods hand,throws him against a wall and lets him fall to his death ( He does this with a big smirk on his face by the way ).He also looks pleased with Lois after she punches Ursa and lets her fall to her death!
I know of the deleted scenes where we see the baddies actually survived and are hauled off to jail but since it wasn’t part of the actual film it’s not canon.
There is at least a significant jump in time from the final fight in MOS to the actual ending where Clark joins the daily planet ( At least a year ) and I find its earned as Clark has finally found his purpose in life.And at least BVS did deal with the repercussions of his fight with Zod.
Yes, I agree that SUPERMAN II rings false on that as well. Make no mistake, I have problems with ALL the Superman films, including the original film with Donner. There’s no DC film without bags of issues. Whether it’s Superman reversing time, Supes killing Zod, Batman murdering the Joker, Tim Burton asking us to sympathize a freak show like Penguin that kidnaps and intends to murder children, etc. I can go on and on.
Sure, but what’s also canon is the Donner cut where Superman imprisons the baddies back into the phantom zone. Seems Donner always intended for them to live but be imprisoned, and the theatrical cut having them murdered was a decision made either by the Salkinds or Richard Lester. At least Cavill’s Superman had a more urgent excuse to kill Zod, whereas Reeve’s basically murdered a helpless human.
WHAT A DICK!!!
Too little too late.
Brief appearance by PB.
This was also shared earlier:
OMG
That's very nicely judged in terms of just giving a bit of hint! Everyone's interested in this because of the Keaton factor, aren't they?
Is that a hint of '89 music right at the beginning?
Yes snd this looks amazing
My eyes welled up listening to Keaton's Batman.
Oh I'm an idiot: I completely missed that that's Keaton's voice.
I must admit some of the meaningful images I didn't recognise. Should I know that suburban house, or that lump of rock?