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I hope Armie isn't involved at all with the DCEU, quite frankly. I haven't enjoyed him in anything I've seen him in that would make me believe he could lead a film all on his own, and his lackluster acting reputation wouldn't endear the WB/DC brand to any more positives. They need strong, strong casting, now more than ever.
It's easy to view Marvel as superior now with all they've done in the past 9 years, but it must be pointed out that they didn't start off as strong either. Iron Man was a hit, but the Hulk film and Iron Man 2 weren't well received at all, and Thor or Captain America: The First Avenger didn't light the world on fire either (though I personally adore Cap's movies). Taking aside Iron Man, their output was fairly average to disappointing. DC are stumbling the same as Marvel did at the start, but I think their failures are perceived as worse because of how far removed the heroes feel to the comics and just how much WB have put their brand in the hands of people who aren't passionate about these characters and their universe, which Marvel always had. I think another reason DC have it harder is because Marvel finally realized their vision and raked in billions, meaning that anything they did would instantly be compared to how Marvel's movies did. People are comparing BvS to recent Marvel films, when that doesn't make much sense. Marvel had to build their universe to what it is now, and of course DC won't be able to match their returns right out of the gate, especially with all the burdens they're already shouldering. I think the expectations were always set too high for them, something even I was guilty of.
I think DC just need to focus on making strong films that work on their own, and quit worrying about racing to create a massive universe. Marvel took their time, and they should too (or should've, as that ship has sailed). Part of why their films have been badly received is because they aren't taking the time to build these characters, to get us to know them so that we can appreciate how they change. When we can't see the development of these characters, it's hard to care about them at all. Marvel did it right, but by trying to play catch up DC and WB have already shot themselves in the foot because their current approach makes it all the harder to write scripts that show the heroes developing. That, and these characterizations of Superman and Batman aren't exactly what people wanted, which also hurts their goodwill.
They have a lot of challenges in their way, and it's going to be hard to come back from it. I am putting everything on Wonder Woman, and if that film isn't good I'll be utterly, utterly crushed.
DC should have just done exactly the same structurely with there films as Marvel did, Suicide Squad should have been a phase two or phase three film.
I am wondering how much Geoff John's appointment is really impacting DCU, if he has come in to steer the ship which is resulting in so many changes (writers and directors) only time will tell if Geoff John's newly implemented vision ends up working.
Its still a bit unfair to say zero progress has been made. He assured fans that the films are undergoing a change and bringing more hope and optimism. The "Rumors" about WW are nothing more than what they are; rumors. There have been plenty of movies plagued by negative press that have turned out great. In terms of Patty Jenkins; as a director of one of the most anticipated movies of this year, wouldn't you be taken back and a bit upset if a project you worked hard on was getting all this negative press. The tweet could've been to assure fans the movie will be great. Cyborg yes; I agree with you on that; JL2 makes sense seeing as how the first isn't even released yet. So why go ahead and announce a sequel to a movie that hasn't even been released yet. Remember Pierce Brosnan and how he announced the sequel to the November Man before the film came out? Surprise, after that failed we have yet to see another film. I didn't really care for the announcements of Gotham City Sirens and the Black Adam movie, so that's whatever to me. And we are still a few good years away from the Green Lantern corps. I see how this is no different than how Fiege announces Marvel projects. Besides, what's to say that the reason the director for the Flash left was because of a disagreement between him and Johns. Yes studio interference is still present, and yes, I am ever so worried about the future of these films. But to say Johns has not made any progess seems a bit of a stretch. If his contributions to the current coarse the comics are taking (DC Rebirth) and his work on the TV side of things are anything to go by, he's the right man for the job.
Geoff Johns And Jon Berg have been "heads" of the DCEU for almost a year now and they havn't done anything really worthy of note to alleviate the adverse stigma associated with the DCEU. The comics and TV shows are great and all but they're not the movies and the movies are in a sorry state.
WW marks an opportunity for success but even that is still being plagued with turmoil and the movie not being good; and according to deadline Chris Terrio rewrote the batman script by Affleck and Johns which has turned out not up to par and is one of the reasons why Affleck isn't directing anymore. If Terrio, Affleck and Johns can't even write a good enough batman script then what's really going on here? Johns is once again proving his ineffectiveness within the DCEU.
Even with 2 people supposedly at the helm things just aren't getting done to a satisfactory level.Like I said before, the DCEU need to stop making announcements of this film and that film and focus on the films at hand. If you look at the 2 reports from Mark Hughes, the DCEU's biggest cheerleader from the start of January to his most recent one about Affleck potentially walking away altogether then you'd see how Johns for the most part and the DCEU is largely indefensible.
I don't understand why making a successful movie is so problematic for these guys. They have their rebirth comics, they have their TV shows and WB had a successful run with Harry Potter and have now embarked on another franchise with fantastic Beasts but they can't get their house in order to make a decent comic book movie that's part of the DCEU??
I really do hope WW and JL turn out great and that Johns can finally prove his worth but for now until I see otherwise, the DCEU is in freefall.
Affleck really does want to write direct and star in his Batman movie but he wants to do it his way meaning 2019 at the earliest and with villains he wants to use (since he is a big comic book fan my guess is Deathstroke and Black Mask but just a guess)
WB wants the film next year and for the Joker to be the main villain (because when do they not want the Joker)
and there in lies the conflict. when will studios realize pushing villains on Directors/writers never works (cause Sony forcing Raimi to use Venom worked so well)
personally if I was WB I would let Affleck have his Batman Film with whatever villains he wants whenever he wants.
As I said, it's a lot of things. It's a lot of pressure to wear so many hats on a big blockbuster film like this, and his recent film project that he directed bombed and has lost over 70 million dollars for Warner Bros., so I'm sure that he and the studio agree that for now, he needs to step back. He's probably lost a lot of faith in himself creatively, as the press have really been gunning for him in the last few weeks, and wanted to make sure that he didn't over exert himself on Batman of all things, especially when Warner are so desperate for an inarguable success.
Which is all very sad considering Live By Night was actually quite good and didn't flop because it was a poor film. Compared with his previous films very few people actually were hyped about it. I do hope that Ben doesn't take the hit too hard because he did as much as he could creatively do to ensure the film was a success and a poor release date and bad marketing (that assumed people would flock to the film on the back of Ben being Batman rather than Ben being the director of a Best Picture winner) proved to be its undoing.
That being said, he's probably right to not direct the Batman solo vehicle just yet. I wouldn't want him to burn himself out on the role just yet considering he's the best thing about this universe so far.
Warner Bros. need to allow him to pick a director he can work closely with.
@CraigMooreOHMSS, I'm sure Live By Night isn't as bad as advertised, but that's the world we currently live in. Every random "journalist" on the web think they're Ebert reincarnated, and they indulge themselves in pushing their negative reviews. Everything is an overreaction now, where films and shows can either be masterpieces or unfit for the gutter, and nothing in between.
People don't seem satisfied with anything these days, no matter what it is. Bond? Garbage. Bourne? Tired. Sherlock? Abysmal. I guess this is the big result of Twitter and Facebook: give those with short attention spans and too much free time a soap box and watch them incessantly moan about things they don't understand.
@Master_Dahark, yep, that's how it's being reported in some places. The sky is falling, the sky is falling! Of course that's why we have Henry's Superman, so he can swoop down and hold it up for us.
The sad thing is that's true. In this day and age, anybody with half a brain and a computer can sit down and call themselves a film critic. I'm no critic by any stretch of the imagination. I like some movies that aren't really liked by a majority of the public (case in point the DCEU); the sad thing is, especially with the fanboy war that's constantly going on, it becomes increasingly frustrating that one cannot post an opinion on a film, without somebody from the other side criticizing the choice in movie. I know a few people who liked BvS, and they aren't some film critic or comic book reader; but an average moviegoer. IMHO, despite the flaws these movies have, I still liked them, the standout being BvS The Extended Cut. On that subject; does anybody else think it's quite bull how was have to wait for the movies to be released on DVD/Blu Ray to see the true vision for these movies, instead of what they're putting in the theatres? Lord knows we probably won't see the actual cut of Suicide Squad for a while.
http://www.slashfilm.com/batman-script-chris-terrio/#more-396506
I also wonder if Affleck wasn't intrigued by the idea of having to wear the Batman costume at all times while directing, which may help contribute to him not wanting to direct.
Once again goes back to where I previously said that Snyder is an overly ambitious filmmaker. I wouldn't go so far as to say he's Michael Bay level, but not much better. If I recall there was 3 cuts of Watchmen (a movie which I haven't seen to be frank), but the fact that DC's "poster boy" for handling the movies went from Chris Nolan to Zack Snyder.
That coupled with the difficulty of constantly switching between a directorial mindset and a Batman/Bruce Wayne mindset throughout the day, it has to be emotionally exhausting.
So when taking Affleck's statement at face value, him stepping down as director doesn't really seem like that big of deal. Its actually perfectly reasonable and understandable that he would rather have someone else direct. Unfortunately, we DC fans have taken so many punches to the gut over these past few years that it is hard not to believe that it is indicative of even greater problems that are looming in the near future.
I've always said that Snyder is a cinematographer trying to be a director. He can craft images, but struggles with pacing and telling stories with them.
It is perfectly reasonable, but just try telling the internet that. I do agree with you, however, that we've all gotten so used to being badly surprised that it's easy to be paranoid of every little change in production that happens now, expecting the worst. It's like a dog who always gets beat on top of the head by its master, and every time afterward that someone raises their hand above his head, he flinches.
It's definitely reasonable but at the same time, is this something that Affleck only just realised? He's not an idiot and had long enough, since at least April of last year to think about the logistics of wearing so many hats in making the movie.
He was on Kimmel 2 weeks ago, reaffirming that he's directing and now this. Affleck not directing isn't what bothers me as such but it's the wish-washy reasoning behind the narrative WB are putting out.
Affleck said and he was adamant about this, that he'll only direct if the script is great. I had mentioned that Terrio was brought in to rewrite the script by Affleck and Johns; the same guy who wrote BvS. Of course the script was going to be not up to standard. Argo was clearly a fluke for the guy. Then couple that with Affleck's passion project in Live By Night that he wrote, produced, starred in and directed that was brutally panned and as a result lost WB $75 Million and had the largest cinema screen drop in movie history. Down 94%. Yeah, I think WB and Affleck would have definitely gone ahead with him wearing all those hats and directing the batman but obviously that's now no longer the case and quite wisely too.
WB's golden boy has shown them that he's not as gilded as they believed him to be following the Argo Oscar's hype.
Excellent retrospective for Bat fans
But so I am not a hypocrite for The Batman here is honestly what I would do
Director: David Fincher look Affleck doesn't have to direct but you need a strong director and Fincher is it.
Comic to Adapt: I can think of 2 graphic novels to pull from Hush and Bruce Wayne Murder either way at the heart of every great batman Graphic novel is a great mystery (heck officer Down would be an interesting film) You have someone trying to outsmart Batman and having him (and his allies specifically Nightwing and Batgirl and maybe Spoiler, I have a thing for girls in spandex so sue me) having to be tested in ways we have not seen.. Bruce Wayne Murderer for example (even though Doubleego would laugh at the gall of adapting that story) would be amazing because when someone frames Bruce so well and his own family doesn't believe in his innocence how far will bruce be pushed. Change the main villain from David Cain to DeathStroke leave the Luthor Angle in (due to the events of BVS) and there you go...
Cast
Ben Affleck Bruce Wayne
JK Simmons Gordon
Jermy Irons as Alfred
Joe Magnillo Deathstroke
Matt Damon Nightwing/Dick Grayson (his age kind of fluctuates when compared to batman so I always assumed they were like 10 years apart and he was only robin the teen wonder for like 3 years before he went off and become Nightwing)
Caity Lotz Barbra Gordon Batgirl (want to argue with me)
Hilary Duff Spoiler ( before everyone screams and yells at me the character is essentially a ditzy blonde who wants to be a superhero Duff can play that easily and she is hot and I want her clad in leather)
I don't remember the rest of the cast of characters but yeah.. That is what I would do I might even title the film Bruce Wayne is it a bold move sure but people know who Bruce Wayne is.
As for your ideas, seeing a live-action Bruce Wayne Fugitive type story would be interesting, but there's a big issue with that. We would be seeing all the Bat-family for the first time in this universe with newly casted actors/actresses, so it'd be hard to give a damn about the drama and distrust that was forming between them and Bruce as we haven't gotten to know them yet. I wouldn't mind seeing a story like that told after we get to know these characters for a film or two beforehand, though, as it could offer some meaty content for Affleck to chew on. We'd also get to see that awesome fight with Nightwing and Bruce recreated, which would be awesome.
I do unequivocally agree with you however that the Batman films we get have to have mysteries of some sort at the heart of them. I really want to see Affleck's Batman get to play a detective as he is in the comics, showing off his big brain.
Actually, yes, I will argue with you about that one. It's bad enough the DCEU is stealing characters from the vastly superior Arrowverse, no way in hell I'm letting them steal actors as well. You leave Caity exactly where she is: Doing justice to DC's characters in a way the movies don't want to.
*edit: and I like Matt Damon in there but he'd be better suited as Hush I think
I think for the most part, the Batman movies out there now have shown bits and pieces of just how Batman is the worlds greatest detective; there was the scene in the Batcave with Vicki Vale in the 1989 film, that scene with Alfred from Batman Forever where they are solving all of Riddlers puzzles, and the scene in The Dark Knight were he has those automatic guns firing at pieces of wood to find to determine the bullet (it's been awhile since I've seen The Dark Knight so my mind is a bit fuzzy), so it's not like the concept hasn't been put into the movies, but not explored in depth like some of the other adaptations have had. My hope is for Ben Affleck to be sort of like Animated Batman from the DCAU. Badass, calculating, so on so forth, and so far Ben's been doing great with the part.
After the critical backlash of BvS, WB hurriedly "tweaked" the JL script to make it lighter, as if that was the one and only problem of BvS. Secondly, I don't think it's about suggesting getting talent to do this, that and the third or using such and such source material; but more a case of WB/DCEU not being clear on what exactly their objectives are. For all the restructuring and repositioning, which was a reaction in and of itself; and getting Johns and Berg there's still no overlord running this thing with confidence and clarity. The entire DCEU have people reading from different pages and from completely different books; and this has been brought up numerous times.
Guess what, even though out of common respect and courtesy I read your suggestions, unfortunately I didn't really need to even need to, not because I'm being a dick but because all of that which you just said, right now, at the moment, it doesn't matter.
As long as WB/DCEU have a policy of basing their decision-making process on trends and making knee-jerk reactions instead of focusing on having a vision for a universe they set out to make and making legit quality movies, one can have the best ideas in the world but it'll get interfered with hardcore because some dumb WB exec read, heard or saw something from a bunch of people on blog sites or where ever, forever keeping the DCEU on the back foot.
Look at Marvel. Are they perfect? Of course not. Over the past 9 years they've had their fare share of controversy and people leaving (Edgar Wright quitting the Ant-Man movie, Edward Norton's fiasco with TIH, Terrence Howard being fired etc) but even though they had that moron Ike Perlmutter being an obstacle, Feige was still the overlord who managed to still make these films deliver and be hit after hit because he had an overall vision; something the DCEU do not have. Feige knows the comics and he knows the movie-making business. The same can't be said about whoever's running the DCEU.
Just look at DC entertainment, their TV shows are killing it, doing an awesome job with their characters and the reception is unequivocally positive. Say what you will about the TV show Gotham, I actually like it for what it is. I know it's a MAJOR departure from the batman mythology but it is what it is and I enjoy it. That being said, Gotham was trending huge the other day because of Jerome (the joker) and the actor playing him, from when he first appeared in the previous season has done an incredible job with the role and it's not just down to him but the writing of the character. Meanwhile, you have the a-holes at WB wanting to kill off certain characters in the TV show because they were to be featured in the movies and now look.
Making suggestions when it comes to casting, adapting stories or whatever isn't going to solve the DCEU's problems, it's a rather pointless endeavour and should be the least of the DCEU's concerns if their executive team, such as it is, is in complete disarray.
That being said, my ideal batman movie right now would be to do some sort of adaptation of batman Arkham Asylum done the raid style. 'nuff said.