DC Comics Cinematic Universe (2013 - present)

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  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Pete Travis is probably available to direct.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    To be fair, a movie shouldn't be 3 hours. Snyder needs to work on being more cohesive in his ideas, and cutting what isn't needed in his movies (of which is a lot). WB wasn't completely in the wrong to have the movie cut down to a more reasonable length.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,968
    @0BradyM0Bondfanatic7, do you mean these comic book movies, or movies in general? I've seen plenty of three-hour plus films that fly by. It's all about how that time is utilized.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    @0BradyM0Bondfanatic7, do you mean these comic book movies, or movies in general? I've seen plenty of three-hour plus films that fly by. It's all about how that time is utilized.

    I'm just saying that Snyder has a history of not being able to focus his vision to a reasonable run time, and I fear we'll see a repeat of BvS with JL. Some films I think deserve to be 3 hours if there's a great story to tell, but watching the three hour cut of BvS was one of the worst viewing experiences of my life. It's such a dull film jam-packed with scenes that go on and on that really amount to nothing. And then when the film needs to really focus and devote a lot of screen time to things, like the Batman and Superman fight, the sequences are over in five minutes. I've seldom watched a movie that gave me so much of what I hated and so little that I wanted.

    Going into JL's editing I hope Snyder is learning his lesson and will make sure the film is paced far better than his past efforts. If it has to be longer than even BvS, I want the movie to deserve that extended time, and not waste it.
  • edited February 2017 Posts: 6,432
    Risico007 wrote: »
    My issue is Filming for Justice league didn't begin till after BVS so clearly there should of been enough time to "fix" justice league and get the DCU on track... I like Batman V Superman so I am unsure of who to "blame" for the film. Nor do I see any arm chair specialists actually offering advice on if I was WB I would bring in _____ because if you see his/her film ______ you can see they know characters also I would want an original story based on _______ because the story is strong and can translate well to film goers because of X Y and Z...


    But so I am not a hypocrite for The Batman here is honestly what I would do

    Director: David Fincher look Affleck doesn't have to direct but you need a strong director and Fincher is it.

    Comic to Adapt: I can think of 2 graphic novels to pull from Hush and Bruce Wayne Murder either way at the heart of every great batman Graphic novel is a great mystery (heck officer Down would be an interesting film) You have someone trying to outsmart Batman and having him (and his allies specifically Nightwing and Batgirl and maybe Spoiler, I have a thing for girls in spandex so sue me) having to be tested in ways we have not seen.. Bruce Wayne Murderer for example (even though Doubleego would laugh at the gall of adapting that story) would be amazing because when someone frames Bruce so well and his own family doesn't believe in his innocence how far will bruce be pushed. Change the main villain from David Cain to DeathStroke leave the Luthor Angle in (due to the events of BVS) and there you go...

    Cast
    Ben Affleck Bruce Wayne
    JK Simmons Gordon
    Jermy Irons as Alfred
    Joe Magnillo Deathstroke
    Matt Damon Nightwing/Dick Grayson (his age kind of fluctuates when compared to batman so I always assumed they were like 10 years apart and he was only robin the teen wonder for like 3 years before he went off and become Nightwing)
    Caity Lotz Barbra Gordon Batgirl (want to argue with me)
    Hilary Duff Spoiler ( before everyone screams and yells at me the character is essentially a ditzy blonde who wants to be a superhero Duff can play that easily and she is hot and I want her clad in leather)


    I don't remember the rest of the cast of characters but yeah.. That is what I would do I might even title the film Bruce Wayne is it a bold move sure but people know who Bruce Wayne is.

    Caity Lotz is a sexy bad ass
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,968
    I think even if the time is utilized well, these superhero movies needn't be three hours plus. BvS felt like it would never end, and that wasn't even the extended edition I sat through.
  • edited February 2017 Posts: 6,432
    Irony is at a running time of near 3hrs 30mins the extended cut of BvS is a much better film, I am holding out for the 4hr cut.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,216
    Irony is at a running time of near 3hrs 30mins the extended cut of BvS is a much better film, I am holding out for the 4hr cut.

    Is that an Extended Extended Version? ;) I joke but it wouldn't surprise me.
  • Irony is at a running time of near 3hrs 30mins the extended cut of BvS is a much better film, I am holding out for the 4hr cut.

    Is that an Extended Extended Version? ;) I joke but it wouldn't surprise me.

    It was reported that there is a four hour cut, hope it gets released I suspect it will at some point. There is even a petition to release it ;)

    https://www.change.org/p/zack-snyder-release-the-4-hour-cut-of-batman-v-superman-dawn-of-justice

  • Agent007391Agent007391 Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, Start
    Posts: 7,854
    Is that gonna be the one where the title fight isn’t disappointing?
  • I get alot from the film for all its flaws, there are some good moments in the fight looks awesome in 4K... Martha!!! It's daft though I enjoy it.
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    Irony is at a running time of near 3hrs 30mins the extended cut of BvS is a much better film, I am holding out for the 4hr cut.

    Is that an Extended Extended Version? ;) I joke but it wouldn't surprise me.

    It was reported that there is a four hour cut, hope it gets released I suspect it will at some point. There is even a petition to release it ;)

    https://www.change.org/p/zack-snyder-release-the-4-hour-cut-of-batman-v-superman-dawn-of-justice

    Speaking of petitions...

    jWBe1V9.jpg

    0f29c8117d896f67ed71e31c3f1e6970.gif

    Fanboys never cease to amaze me.
  • The internet is a crazy place, I wonder how much this type of concensus impacts... With DCU too much based on recent history, it appears they react too much to fan reaction rather than having there own well constructed vision.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,968
    Is that gonna be the one where the title fight isn’t disappointing?

    I made jokes long before it came out, saying how this thing was going to dominate at the box office, and how there was absolutely NO WAY you could bungle Batman and Superman fighting. Sure enough, I was proved wrong with the release of the film.
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 8,205
    While the rumored to be in trouble Wonder Woman may be, I think Aquaman is going to be the breakthrough hit for DC.
  • talos7 wrote: »
    While the rumored to be in trouble Wonder Woman may be, I think Aquaman is going to be the breakthrough hit for DC.

    I thought the same with all that is involved with the production, all seems relatively plain sailing with Aquaman

  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Snyder would be a great choice.
  • I was thinking yesterday that Snyder should direct The Batman
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,173
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    JUSTICE LEAGUE DARK

    Available now. And loving every second of it!!!

    So what's the final verdict? Is it any good?

    @Seven_Point_Six_Five, sorry about the delay.
    Yes, it's good! I'm rather a fan of the Swamp Thing and Constantine characters and although this movie has less of one than of the other, it's still a different film than your typical JLA and I applaud them for trying new things on a consistent basis.
  • Justice League running time rumoured to be 181 mins
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    A 3 hour Justice League film? Yep, WB won't chop that thing to shreds. *sarcasm*
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    Not that it's going to be the JL movie want anyway.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,968
    They'll cut it to hell, then release an inevitable "Definitive" edition that people will likely enjoy a little bit more, because $$$.
  • Now people are petitioning to release a 4 hour version of BvS...if it does get released I sure as hell won't be watching in a single setting
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,968
    Was the 'Extended Edition' for BvS even worth it? I saw the theatrical edition and that was enough for me, surely adding in MORE footage won't solve the problems I had. Same goes with 'Suicide Squad' and adding in more Joker scenes.
  • It made the movie more cohesive, I sat down with a buddy after a long night of work, and I say it improved the movie. What made the movie work for me was the actors, and visuals. I can see what they were trying to do with the story by making a little more complex than other superhero movies, it's just too long a story to put into a film. If the original runtime (even before the UE) was 4 hours, then they were better off cutting into two parts.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    @Creasy47, watch the Extended Cut if you want to see more of Superman, basically. It fleshes out his feelings a tad more, whereas he's overshadowed too much in the theatrical. Despite what some will say, however, fixing a bad film a bit still makes it a bad film. All the stuff we hate it for is still there, and in some cases, there's even more of it in the Extended Cut. Including the run time!

    I also don't support the notion that BvS is more complex or brainy than other superhero films. Everything about it that could've been taken it to a deeper level, is brushed away. Superman is blamed by parts of the world for what he did to Metropolis, but we never actually see him doing anything about it, or accepting his failures to learn how to do a better job; he just mopes around and wonders why people doesn't support him, not seeing that that's partly why. Bruce is trying to make sure his legacy means something, that all his crime fighting doesn't amount to nothing, but we never see why he feels that way, and on top of that his rationale for killing Superman and how he justifies the act makes him look like he has the intelligence of a potato (sorry to potatoes). Lex's daddy issues drive him to hate the perfect messiah, but the movie never actually strives to build him up in any interesting way and Eisenberg murders any attempts to make the character into anything other than groan-inducing and incessantly annoying. It's a movie that tries to look like it has enough substance to match some style, but at the end of the day it's the equivalent of a kid who copies and pastes random text into an essay to sound smart, but then fails to organize anything in a sensical manner.

    Movies like Nolan's Batman films were smart, as are Winter Solider and Spider-Man 1 and 2, to name a few. Films that examine the myths and purpose of their heroes each in moments where they have existential crises that put everything they stand for into jeopardy and test them to rise above it all. Movies that use the characters as symbols of hope, and that explore the effect that people like them can have on society and their views on morality, justice, righteousness and more, as well as what danger they bring by doing the right things.

    BvS isn't about any of that. Snyder talks big game but all he did was create one of the most soulless, hollow movies I've ever had the misfortune to sit in front of that wasted the greatest pieces of iconography in contemporary memory and produced a film that is the equivalent of a little boy smashing two action figures together over and over again until one's head pops off. It's like talking to a beautiful girl when you know there's nothing of substance upstairs. You can watch the Batman warehouse fight all you want, but there comes a time where you sit and think, "There's got to be more point to this. This movie has to amount to more than just things exploding and people punching each other." It's not, but it could have been.
  • edited February 2017 Posts: 2,264
    @Creasy47, watch the Extended Cut if you want to see more of Superman, basically. It fleshes out his feelings a tad more, whereas he's overshadowed too much in the theatrical. Despite what some will say, however, fixing a bad film a bit still makes it a bad film. All the stuff we hate it for is still there, and in some cases, there's even more of it in the Extended Cut. Including the run time!

    I also don't support the notion that BvS is more complex or brainy than other superhero films. Everything about it that could've been taken it to a deeper level, is brushed away. Superman is blamed by parts of the world for what he did to Metropolis, but we never actually see him doing anything about it, or accepting his failures to learn how to do a better job; he just mopes around and wonders why people doesn't support him, not seeing that that's partly why. Bruce is trying to make sure his legacy means something, that all his crime fighting doesn't amount to nothing, but we never see why he feels that way, and on top of that his rationale for killing Superman and how he justifies the act makes him look like he has the intelligence of a potato (sorry to potatoes). Lex's daddy issues drive him to hate the perfect messiah, but the movie never actually strives to build him up in any interesting way and Eisenberg murders any attempts to make the character into anything other than groan-inducing and incessantly annoying. It's a movie that tries to look like it has enough substance to match some style, but at the end of the day it's the equivalent of a kid who copies and pastes random text into an essay to sound smart, but then fails to organize anything in a sensical manner.

    Movies like Nolan's Batman films were smart, as are Winter Solider and Spider-Man 1 and 2, to name a few. Films that examine the myths and purpose of their heroes each in moments where they have existential crises that put everything they stand for into jeopardy and test them to rise above it all. Movies that use the characters as symbols of hope, and that explore the effect that people like them can have on society and their views on morality, justice, righteousness and more, as well as what danger they bring by doing the right things.

    BvS isn't about any of that. Snyder talks big game but all he did was create one of the most soulless, hollow movies I've ever had the misfortune to sit in front of that wasted the greatest pieces of iconography in contemporary memory and produced a film that is the equivalent of a little boy smashing two action figures together over and over again until one's head pops off. It's like talking to a beautiful girl when you know there's nothing of substance upstairs. You can watch the Batman warehouse fight all you want, but there comes a time where you sit and think, "There's got to be more point to this. This movie has to amount to more than just things exploding and people punching each other." It's not, but it could have been.

    There are several points which I happen to disagree with; you say we never see Superman doing anything since parts of the world blamed him for what happened, but what about the montage where he saves the little girl from that building on fire? What about the part where he rescues that space shuttle with the astronauts while the entire rocket exploded behind him. The reason we see Bruce presented this certain way is within the context of this specific incarnation of the character. Prior to the events of BvS, Bruce has been Batman for around 20 years, his entire rogues gallery is already established, he blames himself for the loss of Jason Todd to the Joker sometime before. He's the hard edged veteren who was pushed to his limit. The events in Metropolis made him realize that he has to do whatever he can to survive, espically with all the metahumans around, that's why we saw him presented as this cruel, unforgiving individual. I agree with you about Luthor. The part was entirely miscast, I think Billy Zane should have gotten it. I just wonder who thought casting Eisenberg was a good idea. On the whole, yes it is a flawed film, and you can say what you will about the movie, but it's really not as bad as you say it is.
  • edited February 2017 Posts: 2,264
    Of coarse this is all just subjective opinion mind you.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    @007ClassicBondFan, you basically proved my point. We see little flashes of what could be done with these characters, but none of it has a heart, a core. Seeing two shots of Superman saving people in a blink-and-you-miss-it montage isn't the same as being there with him real-time as he talks to the humans, assures them everything will be all right, and that he'll protect them. MoS, for some of its flaws, had Superman actually interacting with the public in ways that endeared him as a hero, but in BvS, as with most of what his character serves, it was diluted. I want to see AND feel.

    As for Batman, I fully understand the arc they wanted to present as all the comics Snyder says he was inspired by (he wasn't) for this film are my bibles. The idea of an older and jaded Batman is an interesting one, but again, the presentation was all off. We never actually get Bruce confronting his demons, nor do we get a great enough sense of just why he went from a good man to a murderous and reckless bastard. Even just a small flashback would've given the massive character change some impact, but we don't even get that. We get just one shot of him looking at Robin's armor and we're suddenly supposed to give a shit about his plight, even when the film doesn't want to spend the time actually exploring who he is as a character or show us Jason's death live and how it broke him. It's just sloppy. I don't have a problem with Batman killing if the concept is explored in interesting ways, but Bruce never faces the consequences of his actions, nor does anybody fight him on why it's wrong (though he should realize it anyway). Even when he's supposedly returned to good (a moment we never actually experience with him) by Superman's influence, he still flies off and goes on to murder another two dozen men and nearly incinerates Ma Kent. He's such a tonally disturbed character, and nothing about him makes sense because even when he should change, he doesn't, and his motivations feel like they were written by a kindergartner.

    His rationalizes to kill Superman because he thinks that someone like him who has even a 1% chance of harming someone should be killed to protect everyone else. Just this fundamental philosophy alone is logically and morally bankrupt, as everyone has a 1% chance of being dangerous, but we don't use that as an excuse to murder each other, do we? Bruce also seems to think that Superman is just acting all the time as he flies around helping people, as he somehow creates this vilified image of him in his head against all other evidence. For two years plus Superman doesn't cause anyone harm, but Bruce must know deep down in his puny head that he's close to doing something dangerous and must be stopped, with no logical argument to back it up. The sanctimonious nature of his pontificating about what's right and good is also pathetically hilarious coming from a man who brands people for murder, runs people over with his tank-car, smashes people's heads to jam with crates, and disembowels and/or vaporizes them with cannon fire and bat-napalm strikes. People can defend his bullshit killing all they want, but this isn't a Batman who kills because it's the merciless thing to do, nor does he try to do it as painlessly as possible (as he would if he had to do it). Instead he finds the most twisted and straight up horrific ways to end people's lives, using people in cars as makeshift battering rams to kill other guys, running over people with the front of his car and on, and on, and on. He's a nutcase.

    Screenwriting 101 is all about showing character motivation and building these people as clearly and interestingly for audiences by showing them develop through presenting moments where we are shown, not told, why they are the way they are and to set the stage for their growth. For this and many more reasons, BvS is one of the worst culprits of bad screenwriting in recent memory.
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