Indiana Jones

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  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    edited December 2022 Posts: 8,205
    thedove wrote: »
    Lets remember that the last trilogy was all under Kathleen Kennedy's watch. We got TFA and people said it was a copy of Star Wars. Then we get the LJ where Luke's character undergoes a complete transformation and not in a good way. Then we have ROS where Rey is suddenly taking the mantle of Skywalker, even though she isn't one.

    These are legitimate gripes, and I share many of them; however these are three films out of many, many films overseen by Kennedy or at least had her significant involvement that worked out incredibly well. Lucas didn't exactly make masterpieces with the prequels, either.

    The issue is not so much worry about the direction of a franchise, no. That's natural. The issue is many people writing projects off before they've even been released and seemingly wishing them to fail so they can say "Ha! I told you so!" about her and the film, as if she only showed up ten years ago with the sole intention of ruining people's childhoods. She didn't.

    I worry that Indy 5 won't be any good, but I hope it blows my socks off.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,157
    I am looking forward to the film, knowing full well that the '80s as I lived them aren't coming back. This 5th Indy film will not be Raiders. I accept that. Now I am ready to enjoy the film.
    thedove wrote: »
    Lets remember that the last trilogy was all under Kathleen Kennedy's watch. We got TFA and people said it was a copy of Star Wars. Then we get the LJ where Luke's character undergoes a complete transformation and not in a good way. Then we have ROS where Rey is suddenly taking the mantle of Skywalker, even though she isn't one.

    These are legitimate gripes, and I share many of them; however these are three films out of many, many films overseen by Kennedy or at least had her significant involvement that worked out incredibly well. Lucas didn't exactly make masterpieces with the prequels, either.

    The issue is not so much worry about the direction of a franchise, no. That's natural. The issue is many people writing projects off before they've even been released and seemingly wishing them to fail so they can say "Ha! I told you so!" about her and the film, as if she only showed up ten years ago with the sole intention of ruining people's childhoods. She didn't.

    Oh and this. I don't think that all people who have an issue with her hate women--though some are quick to see a link between a "she" and the so-called "wokeness" of Hollywood. I just don't get all the hatred. I rather liked the recent trilogy. And it's not as if she wrote, directed, edited, scored and acted in the films.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,338
    Yes I think it's a bit strange to associate everything not liked about this particular executive (and mostly ignore any other, more hands-on creatives, or any other less publicly facing executives) but not to associate any successes, which the critic in question will often they say they did like, with the same person.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    This is @slide_99 and his M.O. though.... The guy slammed NTTD with regularity upon its release without having watched the film. Now it seems as if he's hoping Indy fails. I just don't understand his perspectives, unless he somehow finds himself superior to all the creatives on these films?
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 5,400
    I'm not hoping for the new Indy film to fail. As a kid he was right up there with double o-7 in terms of my hero worship. The recent track record of Kennedy and her choices for directors and writers is lacking. I hope that I am proven wrong and we get the right kind of send off for a beloved character.

    The trailer didn't excite me and I hope it's a case of an underwhelming trailer leading to a superior film.
  • Luke,Han and Leia should have had scenes together I agree in the "prequel-correction " (series but to spin this into some sort of anti-Kathy K vendetta is ridiculous. If anyone is to blame, blame George Lucas for the atrocious prequel scripts and insisting on using aliens in KOTCS.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,205
    thedove wrote: »
    I'm not hoping for the new Indy film to fail.

    That's good. I wasn't aiming it at you directly, by the way. I hope it wasn't picked up that way.

    But I think Kennedy gets a lot of undeserved flack the same way Babs does from certain sections of the Bond community.

    I also hope you're proven wrong (in the nicest possible way!).

  • Posts: 12,462
    I think it’s safe to say in the case of several, sexism is a factor, but just as well with many others it isn’t in the equation. Everything’s about balance, but people love narratives and extremes.
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    edited December 2022 Posts: 25,044
    4K HDR TRAILER | Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny (2023)

    I love Indy.
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    edited December 2022 Posts: 8,195
    I cannot grasp the negativity that some have towards this trailer and film; every time that I see it, it gives me chills. In reality this is an extended teaser; it’s not meat to lay out the plot or story specifics. I’ll be there on opening night.
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    edited December 2022 Posts: 25,044
    talos7 wrote: »
    I cannot grasp the negativity that some have towards this trailer and film; every time that I see it, it gives me chills. In reality this is an extended teaser; it’s not meat to lay out the plot or story specifics. I’ll be there on opening night.

    As soon as Sallah says 'Perhaps, perhaps not' and Indy then smiles that is me sold. ( I was onboard as soon as the trailer started, I am biased).
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    edited December 2022 Posts: 25,044
    Watching KOTCS its basically made in the same way the Star Wars Prequels were. If I did mot know any better I would think Lucas was directing these early scenes.

    The magnetism makes zero sense, physics totally out of the window. The problem with the magnetic force in the warehouse scene is its very inconsistent.

    The practical stunts in the warehouse are great, I believe it is Ford.

    The 1950's fake village is genius and has many connotations. The fridge... lets move on.

    When I watched this film in the cinema seeing the nuclear blast and Indy stood facing it was a awesome visual at the time.

    Ford has great muscle mass in this film for his age or better than many 10 year younger. Ford really did keep himself in great shape.

    The Indy and Mutt first scene is great as is the bike chase.

    I always love Indy's disapproval expressions.

    So far this is a decent film, though I know it literally falls of a cliff when Karen Allen appears.

    There are some great Super Ego Indy Allusions in this film, Spielberg displays flourishes of genius.

    Marion just appeared oh dear...

    The dry sand scene realty is bad.

    Despite how bad this film gets, Ford is great.

    If you divorce this film from the original Trilogy and see it as a Errol Flynn type movie it is a lot of fun.

    I am reaching this film is bad, certainly the final act.
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 5,400
    @talos7 I guess my negativity bleeds over from the Disney Star Wars product. They botched and made a mess of the Star Wars canon. While obviously Kathleen didn't act, direct the films she decided who did. She must have approved the scripts or story ideas.

    They've caused issues for New Hope with the train wreck of a series Obi-Wan. Making Obi-Wan interact with young Leia. Having Luke be a secondary character in the piece. Lazy writing and terrible plotting.

    Just as Lucas owns what happened in the prequels, I think Kennedy needs to own some of the errors in the current product.

    That creates doubt that they will get this right. Ford seems to be on board and fully engaged which is a good thing. He looks every bit his age now and while that might not be a bad thing, the CGI in the trailer with him on horseback is very dodgy. I suppose the trailer is just an extended teaser and therefore makes no attempt to tell us about plot.

    I am hoping that we see a great send off for a beloved character. One that I recall seeing in the theatre as a 12 year old, a 15 year old and then a 19 year old. I love and re-watch those films and enjoy them all. Crystal Skull had faults and wasn't at the level of the first three. However Ford made the movie a joy to watch and he was believable as the adventurer again.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    talos7 wrote: »
    I cannot grasp the negativity that some have towards this trailer and film; every time that I see it, it gives me chills. In reality this is an extended teaser; it’s not meat to lay out the plot or story specifics. I’ll be there on opening night.

    Me as well…. I’m damn excited to see this. The director is a legitimate A-list filmmaker who can make thoughtful and entertaining popcorn films as well. So many hands-on creatives from the other Indy adventures are back…. I don’t understand the negativity based on a two minute trailer of a two hour + film.
  • slide_99slide_99 USA
    Posts: 691
    peter wrote: »
    This is @slide_99 and his M.O. though.... The guy slammed NTTD with regularity upon its release without having watched the film. Now it seems as if he's hoping Indy fails. I just don't understand his perspectives, unless he somehow finds himself superior to all the creatives on these films?

    I don't care if Indy 5 bombs or not. I was never big on the series to begin with. But given what Hollywood has done to Luke Skywalker, James Bond, Wolverine, and John Connor in just the past few years alone, I think it's weird how some people are ignoring this very obvious trend in modern movies.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,338
    Personally I can't believe Sean Connery killed off Robin Hood. Grrr, where does he get off?
  • Posts: 1,629
    mtm wrote: »
    Since62 wrote: »
    Raiders got a reshoot of the ending ? Good grief ! After all those wax people melted a first time they had to make some more ?

    No, Marion disappeared after the island and they realised they needed that moment on the steps in Washington with her.

    Glad they did ! That's one of the BEST scenes ! Great interaction between them.
  • Posts: 1,629
    I hope the title of the new Indy movie does not negatively affect the likelihood of us getting an animated film entitled
    Dexter Michael Louis McPherson III and the Screwdriver of Versatility
  • HildebrandRarityHildebrandRarity Centre international d'assistance aux personnes déplacées, Paris, France
    Posts: 480
    The Star Wars fan base is filled with negativity these days. Kennedy made mistakes, as the films were rushed, even it was actually done at the behest of Bob Iger, who wanted a faster return on investment. He assumed that, if Marvel could roll out two or three movies a year, Lucasfilm could achieve one a year, with an entire main trilogy being released over the span of four years and standalone Star Wars Stories then filling the gaps.
    Kennedy, who was, by the way, put in charge by George Lucas himself, wasn't able to negotiate a slower pace, as Lucasfilm didn't have decades of major arcs and stories published in the comics to help them write the sequels. And the synopses provided by George Lucas for a sequel trilogy were apparently as good as anything written by George Lucas in the last 25 years (be ready for his Episode IX exploring the idea that the Force was ultimately connected to microscopic creatures he had toyed with since the early days and that were called Whills. I'm not sure that the episode would have been The Triumph of the Whills he assumed).

    But it was still a shock to see that James Bond fans, at least in this place, turn out to be more accepting of changes and evolution for their favourite series than a very vocal part of the Star Wars community.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    slide_99 wrote: »
    peter wrote: »
    This is @slide_99 and his M.O. though.... The guy slammed NTTD with regularity upon its release without having watched the film. Now it seems as if he's hoping Indy fails. I just don't understand his perspectives, unless he somehow finds himself superior to all the creatives on these films?

    I don't care if Indy 5 bombs or not. I was never big on the series to begin with. But given what Hollywood has done to Luke Skywalker, James Bond, Wolverine, and John Connor in just the past few years alone, I think it's weird how some people are ignoring this very obvious trend in modern movies.

    @slide_99 … did you watch NTTD? Presuming I know the answer, I should ask: did you watch Wolverine? Or is your opinion based on not watching the entirety of a film, but picking up on a few clips someone from YouTube spliced together?
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    I don't think you'll ever get an answer no matter how many times you ask him. :P
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    Murdock wrote: »
    I don't think you'll ever get an answer no matter how many times you ask him. :P

    It’s true, @Murdock … at least you watch the films and l can respect your opinions, 😂. You have a perspective since you’ve actually viewed, say, NTTD, and, although i don’t agree with some of your thoughts (and vice/versa), I can respect your angle as a Bond fan (which, as a fan of anything, should start off with actually watching the films, 😂)
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    peter wrote: »
    Murdock wrote: »
    I don't think you'll ever get an answer no matter how many times you ask him. :P

    It’s true, @Murdock … at least you watch the films and l can respect your opinions, 😂. You have a perspective since you’ve actually viewed, say, NTTD, and, although i don’t agree with some of your thoughts (and vice/versa), I can respect your angle as a Bond fan (which, as a fan of anything, should start off with actually watching the films, 😂)

    Indeed so @peter, I did have a bit of a better time watching NTTD a second time. The problems I had with it still bugged me but I accept the film as it is. I'm glad it has it's fans.

    Going back to Indy, I'm actually excited for Dial of Destiny. I hope it will make up for my disappointment of Kingdom of the Crystal Skull. I think it will. I haven't read any of the leaks so I'll be going in blind for it. :)
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    Me too @Murdock … the trailer makes me feel like a kid— seeing Indy and hearing that music…. Can’t wait!!
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    That slow triumphant blast of the Indy theme near the end of the trailer got me so pumped.
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 5,400
    slide_99 wrote: »
    peter wrote: »
    This is @slide_99 and his M.O. though.... The guy slammed NTTD with regularity upon its release without having watched the film. Now it seems as if he's hoping Indy fails. I just don't understand his perspectives, unless he somehow finds himself superior to all the creatives on these films?

    I don't care if Indy 5 bombs or not. I was never big on the series to begin with. But given what Hollywood has done to Luke Skywalker, James Bond, Wolverine, and John Connor in just the past few years alone, I think it's weird how some people are ignoring this very obvious trend in modern movies.

    I would agree with you! It seems the latest trend is to tear down or diminish characters of the past. Lets hope Indy gets a good send off to do the character proud.
  • Can't wait for Dial of Destiny. Trailer looks brilliant. I dont care what the doom mongers are saying. James Mangold does not make bad films. Only average one was Knight and Day but that was probably controlled by Tom Cruise who usually has editorial control.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,205
    Can't wait for Dial of Destiny. Trailer looks brilliant. I dont care what the doom mongers are saying. James Mangold does not make bad films. Only average one was Knight and Day but that was probably controlled by Tom Cruise who usually has editorial control.

    And I still quite liked that one. I don't think it's bad at all!
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,338
    Yeah, it's very light and fluffy, but it's perfectly watchable and both the leads are great: I really enjoy Cruise's slightly unhinged performance. I saw it got bad reviews which I don't think it deserved.
    Tone-wise it's not all that different from an Indy film, a comedic action adventure. Add in some of the heart of Ford vs Ferrari and hopefully you've got Indy.
  • Posts: 1,629
    thedove wrote: »
    slide_99 wrote: »
    peter wrote: »
    This is @slide_99 and his M.O. though.... The guy slammed NTTD with regularity upon its release without having watched the film. Now it seems as if he's hoping Indy fails. I just don't understand his perspectives, unless he somehow finds himself superior to all the creatives on these films?

    I don't care if Indy 5 bombs or not. I was never big on the series to begin with. But given what Hollywood has done to Luke Skywalker, James Bond, Wolverine, and John Connor in just the past few years alone, I think it's weird how some people are ignoring this very obvious trend in modern movies.

    I would agree with you! It seems the latest trend is to tear down or diminish characters of the past. Lets hope Indy gets a good send off to do the character proud.

    Tear characters DOWN ? a Tragic ending is part of making the hero immortal, a god, and elevates them in every way.
    In fact, at least one of the them actually got blown up..."Up" ? Ahem. At any rate, the tragic hero story is ancient and time-honored, with good reason.
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