Indiana Jones

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  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,413
    Not really seeing those problems; for me it's a whole lot more exciting and interesting than the casual wander through the similar tomb of Orellana from the last film (seems like there's toxic gas or something in there?). As long as there's a bit of excitement and peril I'm happy.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    edited June 2023 Posts: 8,188
    mtm wrote: »
    That's quite a fun joke.

    No reactions on the clip from the film then? I think it's a lovely little clip.

    I can’t believe they had the woman do all the work just to make Indy look dumb and befuddled. Woke gone too far!
  • Posts: 1,394
    Latest tracking has Indy 5 making only 70 million in its opening weekend.Previewing the film a month early and lifting review embargo so early was a disastrous move for them.

    Even if this movie is really good ( which is really doubtful ) the idea of selling an octogenarian action hero to a modern day cinema audience ( which like it or not skews young ) is a tough sell.Given that the out of control budget raised to over a 300 million ( not counting marketing costs ), Indy 5 has to make in the region of 900 million to a billion just to break EVEN.

    The last film in the series ( despite being bad ) had the nostalgia and benefit of the goodwill of the classic trilogy giving it must see status.It’s looking more and more likely that Indy 5 is going to be a financial flop.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,188
    Why is it that detractors always focus on the ROI?

    “Hey, SKYFALL is the highest grossing Bond film! Good for them!”
    “Oh yeah?! But it doesn’t beat DR. NO’s ROI, does it?! What a failure!”
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited June 2023 Posts: 16,413
    Looks like they won't be making that sixth one with an 85 year old Ford then: shucks.

    Personally I'm more worried about whether I have a fun time watching it than whether some rich shareholders get a good cut. And if they spent too much money on it and it shows up on screen... well then good.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,217
    mtm wrote: »
    I'm booked for the 28th :)

    Tony Stella, the amazing poster artist, has given a glimpse of the unused International poster art for DoD on his Twitter as it's being packed away, presumably to Lucasfilm's archive. It looks even more stunning than the main poster:

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    FybfRNhX0AEDiCL?format=jpg&name=medium



    A new clip:






    That's a lovely clip. I like the water displacement idea.
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 13,807
    Loved the clip. Thrilling and fun. And Greek gets points with me.

  • Posts: 1,493
    mtm wrote: »
    I'm booked for the 28th :)

    Tony Stella, the amazing poster artist, has given a glimpse of the unused International poster art for DoD on his Twitter as it's being packed away, presumably to Lucasfilm's archive. It looks even more stunning than the main poster:

    FybfRNKXsAAiw6g?format=jpg&name=medium

    FybfRNhX0AEDiCL?format=jpg&name=medium



    A new clip:






    That's a lovely clip. I like the water displacement idea.

    The clip looks good.
  • Posts: 669
    I really like the set in the clip, and I absolutely love the lighting. I hope this might alleviate some concerns that Helena takes charge of the movie from Indy; here it's pretty clear that Indy is solving the puzzle and taking the initiative.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,188
    Just revisited CRYSTAL SKULL.

    I never hated it. It’s not as good as the first three, but I never thought it was the travesty so many claim it to be. Also thought Ford and LaBeouf had very good chemistry.

    I always felt Mutt was overhated because so many people were upset at the idea of him taking over from Indy that they couldn’t just take him as just another sidekick character like Short Round or Professor Jones Sr. But rather thinking Lucas and Spielberg were trying to prop him up for something bigger for the franchise, and now that seems to be an issue Phoebe Waller Bridge has to deal with (she’ll probably get a spin-off TV series at best, but I doubt she’ll take the mantle when it comes to theatrical films, even if DoD does great at the box office).
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited June 2023 Posts: 16,413
    Did you watch the new version? It really is a huge improvement visually.
    I always thought LeBoeuf is absolutely fine in it; he’s no Connery-style charisma matcher to Ford, but he’s not annoying in a role which really could be. The problem is that the story doesn’t really have a good idea for him to fill.

    Very cool moment from the premiere last night:
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,188
    The 4K remaster? Yeah. Paramount+ has all the films in 4K. I think the only place you could find the outdated 2008 blu-ray transfer these days is on the old disc itself.
  • JustJamesJustJames London
    Posts: 216
    Crystal Skull is better than Temple of Doom….
    (Also, it’s full of precisely the kind of ‘arcaneology’ that was very popular in the Cold War period — which is spot on for Indy’s origins and concept.)
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,413
    I would disagree with that: I think Temple is a fabulously exciting and inventive film and is directed incredibly. But I like that every Indy film has its fans.
    I do agree about the arcaneology (great word!) - I think the ancient aliens thing is spot on for Indy and works well. But the script just needed more passes. Why does Spalko break into Area 51 in the beginning for example? What use is the alien she steals?
  • BennyBenny Shaken not stirredAdministrator, Moderator
    Posts: 15,138
    mtm wrote: »
    I would disagree with that: I think Temple is a fabulously exciting and inventive film and is directed incredibly. But I like that every Indy film has its fans.
    I do agree about the arcaneology (great word!) - I think the ancient aliens thing is spot on for Indy and works well. But the script just needed more passes. Why does Spalko break into Area 51 in the beginning for example? What use is the alien she steals?

    I always thought it was the catalyst of the overall story. To let the audience know that Indy would be dealing with UFO's and Aliens along the way.
    I get what you're saying though, there's no real reason for the Ruskies to obtain the alien corpse.
  • Last_Rat_StandingLast_Rat_Standing Long Neck Ice Cold Beer Never Broke My Heart
    Posts: 4,589
    I think Spalko wanted proof that such a thing existed and Indy was the one person who knew of its location
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited June 2023 Posts: 16,413
    I think Spalko wanted proof that such a thing existed and Indy was the one person who knew of its location

    Bit vague though, and she already seems pretty certain. Really in a plot like this, it needed to have been something which then lead her to find the macguffin itself, like the medallion in Raiders. As it is it's just a body she does nothing with.
    Maybe if it had somehow granted her some of the mindreading properties she claims to have, and that had told her the location of the skull... maybe that would have added together a bit more.

    But the film has so many saggy bits like that. I think the worst thing it does is fail to give anyone particularly big motivations to do any of it (there's pretty much no reason for any of them to keep going after the waterfall bit)- not least Indy has no massively movie-worthy motivation to go on the adventure in the first place. A strange kid turns up saying he's the son of a woman he doesn't remember, telling him a guy he knew years ago but found quite boring has gone missing, whilst in search of a skull that Indy thinks is worthless. I mean, it's not massively compelling stuff, is it? Luckily Indy has just lost his job, so he literally has nothing better to do.
    Compare to 'your father has vanished, and you have to stop Hitler's armies of darkness walking across the Earth'.
  • I never understood that part in the last crusade where Henry says if they don't stop the Nazis getting the grail that the armies of darkness would march all over the face of the earth.

    That makes sense for the ark with the talk of levelling mountains etc but not so much for the Grail.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,217
    I never understood that part in the last crusade where Henry says if they don't stop the Nazis getting the grail that the armies of darkness would march all over the face of the earth.

    That makes sense for the ark with the talk of levelling mountains etc but not so much for the Grail.

    Immortality in the hands of evil would lead to just as much destruction.

    It just so happens that they were wrong anyway - in the sense that in order to maintain immortality you seemingly would have to stay within the grail site.
  • Ah, yes, that's true. I was forgetting that the Nazis wouldn't know about the having to stay in the temple part.
  • Last_Rat_StandingLast_Rat_Standing Long Neck Ice Cold Beer Never Broke My Heart
    Posts: 4,589
    So in the end, the Nazis wouldn't have been able to do anything with both the Ark and the Grail. Indiana Jones was never needed for either in the long run.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited June 2023 Posts: 16,413
    I never understood that part in the last crusade where Henry says if they don't stop the Nazis getting the grail that the armies of darkness would march all over the face of the earth.

    That makes sense for the ark with the talk of levelling mountains etc but not so much for the Grail.

    Immortality in the hands of evil would lead to just as much destruction.

    It just so happens that they were wrong anyway - in the sense that in order to maintain immortality you seemingly would have to stay within the grail site.

    Well the grail has to stay there, but there's nothing to say that its effects don't remain if you leave the site. Both Henry and Indy have their injuries healed by it after all, and their wounds don't reappear when they leave.
    Admittedly how useful this is to an army in Europe is up for question, but I guess it seems certain that the top Nazis would have lived effectively forever.
    So in the end, the Nazis wouldn't have been able to do anything with both the Ark and the Grail. Indiana Jones was never needed for either in the long run.

    The Ark is shown to be an effective weapon in the book Indy has; if the Nazis had learned how to control it (and if it had gone to Berlin it's hard to imagine they wouldn't have continued to experiment on it, no matter how many German soldiers it killed) then it may well have been a major threat in their hands.
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    Posts: 13,978
    JustJames wrote: »
    Crystal Skull is better than Temple of Doom….
    (Also, it’s full of precisely the kind of ‘arcaneology’ that was very popular in the Cold War period — which is spot on for Indy’s origins and concept.)

    Yes, this. It's not as good as RAIDERS or LAST CRUSADE, but if I had to watch either of the other two, i'd rather rewatch CRYSTAL SKULLS.
  • JustJamesJustJames London
    Posts: 216
    mtm wrote: »
    I would disagree with that: I think Temple is a fabulously exciting and inventive film and is directed incredibly. But I like that every Indy film has its fans.
    I do agree about the arcaneology (great word!) - I think the ancient aliens thing is spot on for Indy and works well. But the script just needed more passes. Why does Spalko break into Area 51 in the beginning for example? What use is the alien she steals?

    Oh it def needed more passes… Ray Winstones character is unbelievably badly written. Clumsy insert, that goes back and forth in a way that stops being funny pretty quick. She wants the alien skull because she reckons it will (a) lead her to the others and (b) is sold on the idea of it increasing her telepathic powers. They basically say that on screen.
  • JustJamesJustJames London
    Posts: 216
    JustJames wrote: »
    Crystal Skull is better than Temple of Doom….
    (Also, it’s full of precisely the kind of ‘arcaneology’ that was very popular in the Cold War period — which is spot on for Indy’s origins and concept.)

    Yes, this. It's not as good as RAIDERS or LAST CRUSADE, but if I had to watch either of the other two, i'd rather rewatch CRYSTAL SKULLS.

    Doom has not aged well, and there’s a sort of… nastiness to it, hanging around the edges. Crusade does a better job all around, and even the ‘Indy Girl’ (since Jones was at least in part inspired by Bond…) is significantly better and treated better by the script, despite being an actual Nazi Villain.
    The worst parts in Skull are not as annoying and ultimately easier to gloss over than the worst parts in Temple. (Crusade as well has a couple of silly moments that are easy to gloss over mentally.)
    At the end of the day, the movie where the hero beats the child sidekick and featuring some unironic questionable stereotypes, is gonna be hard to beat at the bottom of the pack. There’s a lot of eighties Schlock in there, and it is of its time — unlike the others which have a timeless quality. It’s why ‘The Mummy’ with Brendan Fraser later used the template so well, getting that style just right.

    Skull actually improves with rewatches, whereas Doom actually goes in the other direction.

    I am kinda looking forward to this new one.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited June 2023 Posts: 16,413
    Do they though? Whereabouts?

    She says the New Mexico one 'gave them hope' because it had a crystal skeleton, unlike the previous ones they'd found in Russia; and she thinks it may have been looking for the Akator ones too, but I'm not sure she says much else about it..?
  • edited June 2023 Posts: 669
    I love KOTCS but AMEN to "needing more script passes." There are some good reasons mentioned here already but I would add my own: What happens to either the FBI subplot or the KGB subplot? They're both completely dropped after the Marshall College chase sequence (which is great). We never once hear from the FBI again, even though they're apparently CONVINCED Indy is a government threat and they want him in jail. Not even a quick wrap-up scene at the end where they apologize or stamp "CLOSED" on a case file or something. It's very odd and it seems like lazy writing. (Unless a final wrap-up scene was written but not included in the movie for time purposes, in which case I can eat my words.)
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited June 2023 Posts: 16,413
    Yeah the FBI one is so frustrating, because Indy being framed up as a Commie is a really cool idea (there was much more of that in the City of the Gods script). Hopefully there's a bit more of that in Dial of Destiny: the NYC stuff in the trailer looks to me like Indy is going on the run from the authorities a bit there too. I'd love to see Indy as a sort of Hitchcockian 'wrong man'. Fingers crossed.

    I would love to see a Hollywood script doctor give their take on the KOTCS script. Because I love all of that theory about how good stories work, and you can tell that KOTCS's just doesn't add up to be a satisfying story. Indy and Mutt don't really have a relationship which grows or goes anywhere really, for example, and so many characters just lack motivation.

    I saw someone suggest that Spalko shouldn't have died at the end for example, but that she should have got her wish of the Skull giving her all the knowledge, but it proves too much and pushes her into insanity. So the film ends with her in a Peruvian asylum, babbling on about string theory and the secret to nuclear fission etc. but where no-one will ever hear her. I thought that's lovely, and a nice parallel to the famous ending of Raiders.
  • That's the annoying thing about Crystal Skull. It has a lot of good stuff and even the bad bits could be good with some small tweaks
  • First thing I'd do is get rid of Ray Winstone.
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