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So when subscription streaming came along it was like a godsend to studios. Making content for people to continuously pay for? Music to their ears.
1) Both movies open with a mini adventure where Indy is first shown as a prisoner of the bad guys
2) Both movies open with a ridiculous scene where a character survives a sure to be fatal event ( Indy survives a nuke explosion hiding in a fridge in Skull,Voller survives being hit by a pole at high speed on a train in Dial.
3) In both movies Indy is now an old man and therefore there are jokes about his age
4) Both movies have unresolved subplots.Indy is suspected of being a communist in Skull but it’s quickly forgotten and in Dial,he’s wanted for murder but this is also unresolved and never mentioned again after he goes to Tangier.
5) In both movies he’s reunited with Marion after breaking up.
6) Both movies are far inferior to the classic trilogy.
I think DOD is actually better than TOD.
Teamwork. No one is a Superman. We all need a little help, and to help a little, now and then. That's the one saving grace from even the installments one might not like so well.
The message in Indy films is uniformly that finding connections between loved ones is more important than any dusty artefact. And that also means relying on each other (Willie even saves Indy and Shorty in the trash compactor, and again she single-handedly dispenses of a whole mine kart’s-worth of baddies).
And why it's my favourite.
So I think it’s quite fitting that DoD (SPOILERS FOLLOW) has Indy taught the lesson that he has people who love him and need him. If he’d stayed in the past, just looking at dusty history and rejecting his loved ones, that would have undermined everything the series has talked about. It’s also entirely about Indy and his life: this isn’t Helena’s film, much as various bigoted YouTubers may tell you.
DoD is a very nicely considered film.
Completely agree here. I've seen it twice in the theatre, and it made me tear up both times because of the genuine love of the series' central theme, so carefully crafted by Mangold & the writers...
Yeah, God's ark melted Nazis, blood of Kali made Indy evil, cup of Christ and seals and stuff made crazy stuff happen, interdimensional freaks left crap in our dimension, and Archimedes predicted time loops/openings based on a WTF time loops/openings.
All nuts.
But love.. without love, none of it would matter.
It is not woke for Short Round to rescue Indy because in those cases it made sense for the character and the plot. I don't recall Short Round being able to fly the plane after learning in one lesson in the bar. I don't recall Short Round being this almighty character who is not flawed. He doesn't drive the car properly at the start. Gets Indy into trouble with bug and spike room.
The problem with many newer characters is that they have no flaws, there is no real conflict for them. Nothing to do with woke. Character development isn't there in newer films.
I think DoD is a better film than ToD, which I was never a huge fan of compared to Raiders and TLC.
I'm looking forward to watching it again.
Shorty is magically a karate expert who can beat up guys twice his size though. He escapes from the mines in a massive acrobat feat. And he certainly does drive the car properly; he drives it perfectly in a chase- he doesn’t make any mistakes (Teddy meanwhile has to be helped to fly the plane). Plus as mentioned he saves Indy rather heroically twice. He’s pretty almighty, and there’s no ‘conflict or character development’ for him.
I think he’s great, I’m not complaining about him at all, but there’s some real double standards going on here.
I’m not sure which characters you think aren’t flawed in DoD: Helena especially is massively flawed- she’s selfish and reckless and makes huge mistakes which create the entire situation. Her arc in fact echoes that of Indy in ToD, where she learns the real value of this stuff, not just fortune. She’s also rescued several times by Indy, just as he is by her.
Did they really erase Indy from history and have Helena take over? As disappointing as DODs ending is ( for me ) I guess we really dodged a bullet there.Maybe they all saw common sense and realised Helena Shaw wasn’t an appealing enough character for a spin off of her own ( Despite KKs comments to the contrary during press of the films release.
All of the stuff about ‘erasing Indy from history’ was entirely made up by a couple of liars on YouTube trying to cause trouble, and they’ve been embarrassed by their lies being so apparent.
Mangold hasn’t ‘gone quiet’: I listened to the Empire interview with him the other day which he did post-release and talked about the plot of the film including the ending. The whole film builds towards it: he ridiculed the idea that there was another ending where Helena took over, Indy died etc. He’s now directing his Bob Dylan movie so is a bit busy. Kennedy was certainly not talking up the idea of a Helena spin-off either, she simply didn’t rule it out when directly asked about the possibility, as any intelligent producer would do, but was quick to point out that they were entirely focused on Indy with Harrison Ford at that point. Mangold also made it clear that Helena was designed as a supporting character, never as a lead. Which is what she is in this film: this is a film about Indiana Jones and his place in the world, and it was never about anything else.
Isn’t most of that (apart from the age… mostly. ‘Not the years, it’s the mileage’) a similar description to raiders? And most of the others with very little tweaks?
It’s not dissimilar to KKs mismanagement of Solo: A Star Wars Story in which the film was about 75% completed shooting and then sacked the directors at the last minute and almost start entirely from scratch adding to the massive budget which the film failed to make back.
Like Indy 5,we will most likely never see what was originally shot for Solo also.Ironically enough both movies star Phoebe Waller Bridge and were both flops ( Somehow doubt we’re getting that Helena Shaw spin off now )
Overall,Indy 5 is a film that really should not have been made.I don’t hate the film and it’s not nearly as bad as I thought it would be,but It’s a project that Disney most definitely regret greenlighting ( KK will still keep her job though,as my guess is like Elliot Carver,she has incriminating video on certain higher ups in the industry,it’s the only explanation that she hasn’t been fired yet in my opinion)
It won’t be revealed because it doesn’t exist. Films have their release dates delayed for countless reasons, not least Ford’s injury meaning the production was shut down. The YouTubers’ claims about a different ending would always end in them claiming that the film was reshot because they made it all up. They were always going to add 2+2 and make 5, that was their plan to try and cover themselves. To swallow a load of nonsense from proven liars is unwise. It’s notable that you had to ignore everything I said.
Nope. Probably won't, either.
Yes, we are all entitled to our opinion; however, this constant behavior is simply fanning the flames.
Knock it off.
I’m not the one baiting.I’m posting my opinions and the videos tell the truth.It’s fine to disagree with it and I have no problem discussing it but not with people that actively troll and call people names like mtm does by calling people “ bigoted YouTubers “ or calling people who actually dare to criticise the 4K box set of the first four films as “ whining “.
In the actual video I posted you can clearly see that KK was snubbed by Stephen Spielberg.It’s fine to discuss that but resounding by baiting like mtm is not acceptable and that’s why I will not respond to him.The best way to deal with bullies is to ignore them,that’s a policy I have in real life as I do online,
Now back on topic..
If they release a 4K box set of the five Indy films I hope they actually correct the picture problems with the current 4K box set as noted by Damn Fool Idealistic Crusader which I posted on this thread earlier.However,both Disney and Paramount don’t have the best reputation when it comes to their 4K transfers…
As i said, some 4K releases are rushed to be put on sale quicker, which ends up on the movie looking weird.
Kind of what happened with the 2013 Jurassic Park Blu-Ray release.
The point is Short Round was a fleshed out character. His arc is from a sidekick to a more elevated role. At the start he passively follows Indy. When faced with the danger and no Indy his character steps up and does what he can to help.
I haven't seen DOD so I can't reply to your comments about Helena. Most of what I read said her character motivations seem to jump with little to no logic. If that's true, she is different from the other leading ladies in Indy's life. Willie was a glam queen who was over her head in TOD but had a good heart and eventually saw that money and fame wasn't the only thing in life. Marion was looking to be a partner with Indy and did the whole adventure due to her father's love of the Ark. LC doesn't really have a leading lady, but Allison Doody is a double agent, although at the end her greed and not loyalty does her in.
You and I see the films with a different perspective. We shall agree to disagree I suppose. I wanted to be clear this isn't about woke for me, it's about how a character is written and how they develop through the story.
While Elsa was a double agent,I would describe her as misguided rather than an actual villain.Yes,she tricked the Joneses ( Even to the extent of sleeping with both of them! ) but it’s clear that she didn’t want them killed.
She wasn’t happy with the Nazis burning books.
It could be argued that she did Indy a solid by despatching Donavan by giving him the wrong Grail cup that she knew would kill him ( Donavan was too obsessed with finally achieving his goal that he didn’t realise he was being set up to die by her ).
Even at the end,Elsas own obsession with the Grail did her in but it’s obvious she had feelings for Indy and wanted him to come with her “ It’s OURS Indy,yours and mine! “
I’ll go as far as saying she’s my favourite “ Indy girl “.Yes,her incredibly good looks have a lot to do with that ( Call me shallow )
The actor clearly isn't a martial arts expert, but they do have him doing very unconvincing karate kicks and knocking everyone over: it's in the film. And yes, he drives flawlessly, there are no comedy crashes.
As I say, I'm not knocking Shorty at all, I think he's great fun. But the Dial characters are in no way inferior (well, Teddy is a more minor character and not as important to the main story as Shorty was so not entirely comparable: in a way his purpose is to draw attention to the idea that Helena is echoing Indy's point in his development in ToD, right down to the child sidekick).
Come on, seriously, you haven't seen it? You can't weigh in with an opinion on something you haven't seen. Where are you getting these points of view from? They can't be yours.
Well yes, I saw it from inside the cinema! :D Trust me, when you form an opinion on a film, that's the best way to do it.
You're telling me that a character in a film you haven't seen isn't as good as a character in a film you don't remember very well (and at this point I'm having to guess that you have actually seen ToD at some point..?). You can't really say 'we'll agree to disagree'; with the greatest respect you don't have enough knowledge of this subject to ask me to see your point of view on it as being terribly valid.
It does happen but it's not the case here, the Indy films look superb.
I need to re-watch TOD as I have some missing gaps. I remember Short Round fighting the Maharaj while Indy fought the big burly guard. I remember Short Round using fire to wake up Indy from the bad blood, spell. I don't remember the car chase, or what I remember is wrong as I had recalled him crashing into things and saying sorry to Jones.
I don't think I told you that a character in a film I had seen was better than a character than a movie I hadn't. I didn't bring up Helena or Teddy you did. I stated that Short Round had an arc of some kind. Teddy, from what I have been told is shown learning to fly a plane in a bar, in a later scene he is able to fly the plane. Not sure that is believable and maybe the friends who told me got it wrong.