Indiana Jones

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  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited June 2018 Posts: 15,718
    Benny wrote: »
    I'm not sure who they're trying to appeal too.
    An 80 year old Indy cannot credibly continue the adventures we're used too.
    Ford IS Indiana Jones, it can be recast, but will it be accepted? Unlikely.

    The question is, accepted by who? People who grew up with Harrison as Indie will never see anyone in the role as comparable, but youngsters seeing a Indiana Jones film at the cinema for the first time absolutely would, because they don't hold that attachment to the way things were.

    Given Harrison Ford has been playing Indy since 1981, and is still the only actor to portray the character on the big screen, no one on earth has grown up with anyone other than him as Indy. This is like re-casting Bond in 1999 after Connery had been the only incarnation of the character since 1962. Teenagers and kids today who happen to watch Indiana Jones films only know Harrison Ford as Indy, as there aren't any film that doesn't feature him as the titular character.
  • Posts: 4,813
    This is like re-casting Bond in 1999 after Connery had been the only incarnation of the character since 1962.

    Good lord when you put it like that.... :-O
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,400
    Benny wrote: »
    I'm not sure who they're trying to appeal too.
    An 80 year old Indy cannot credibly continue the adventures we're used too.
    Ford IS Indiana Jones, it can be recast, but will it be accepted? Unlikely.

    The question is, accepted by who? People who grew up with Harrison as Indie will never see anyone in the role as comparable, but youngsters seeing a Indiana Jones film at the cinema for the first time absolutely would, because they don't hold that attachment to the way things were.

    Given Harrison Ford has been playing Indy since 1981, and is still the only actor to portray the character on the big screen, no one on earth has grown up with anyone other than him as Indy. This is like re-casting Bond in 1999 after Connery had been the only incarnation of the character since 1962. Teenagers and kids today who happen to watch Indiana Jones films only know Harrison Ford as Indy, as there aren't any film that doesn't feature him as the titular character.

    The only Indiana Jones film to come out in the past 30 years is kingdom of crystal skull, so with all due respect, there is a generation of children, who were babies or not born, that have never seen an Indie film in the cinema, which is what I said. It may startle some to learn that children nowadays are not watching and talking about the OT from the 80's, in their droves. Those films have there place, because of the impact they had at the time of their release, to the children and families of that era. If they want the franchise to continue, they need to create a Indie for this generation, and the same is true of Bond.
  • Posts: 4,813
    Damnit that's a good point too! ARRRGGHH I'm stuck in the middle!! Do I want Indy 5 or not?

    tenor.gif
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited June 2018 Posts: 15,718
    Benny wrote: »
    I'm not sure who they're trying to appeal too.
    An 80 year old Indy cannot credibly continue the adventures we're used too.
    Ford IS Indiana Jones, it can be recast, but will it be accepted? Unlikely.

    The question is, accepted by who? People who grew up with Harrison as Indie will never see anyone in the role as comparable, but youngsters seeing a Indiana Jones film at the cinema for the first time absolutely would, because they don't hold that attachment to the way things were.

    Given Harrison Ford has been playing Indy since 1981, and is still the only actor to portray the character on the big screen, no one on earth has grown up with anyone other than him as Indy. This is like re-casting Bond in 1999 after Connery had been the only incarnation of the character since 1962. Teenagers and kids today who happen to watch Indiana Jones films only know Harrison Ford as Indy, as there aren't any film that doesn't feature him as the titular character.

    The only Indiana Jones film to come out in the past 30 years is kingdom of crystal skull, so with all due respect, there is a generation of children, who were babies or not born, that have never seen an Indie film in the cinema, which is what I said. It may startle some to learn that children nowadays are not watching and talking about the OT from the 80's, in their droves. Those films have there place, because of the impact they had at the time of their release, to the children and families of that era. If they want the franchise to continue, they need to create a Indie for this generation, and the same is true of Bond.

    Your argument makes no sense. Try again please.

    Unless you are saying that going to the cinema is the only way for people to watch films, in which case I must announce to everyone that I've never seen any of the Bond films released between 1962 and 1989 since I wasn't alive at the time, and I don't have any possibilities to watch them.
  • Posts: 12,837
    I don't really want another one, they've already done two films that had endings that wrapped things up nicely, but if they're going to then I think they really need a new actor. Harrison Ford is way too old and if they want to be able to move past him then I think drawing attention to the legacy he's left (with a film split between young/old Indy, or one final film with him before recasting) is a bad idea.

    Bond survived past Connery because Moore was different. Still Bond, but he put his own spin on it and they ditched a lot of the stuff associated with the Connery era (no more shaken not stirred, no more Aston Martin). I think the only way to make it work is to recast and do that. Harrison Ford is too old to carry a whole action film himself, and if you split it between him and flashbacks to a young Indy, then the new actor is basically locked into doing a Harrison Ford impression and can't really put his own spin on it.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    I wouldn't be surprised if it doesn't happened at all. Crystal Skull killed Indiana Jones for me. I have no interest in seeing another penned by the guy who wrote it. And I don't want to see a reboot with Chris Pratt. God why him of all people? The tomb is sealed. No need to open it again unless you want your face melting off.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    edited June 2018 Posts: 8,400
    Benny wrote: »
    I'm not sure who they're trying to appeal too.
    An 80 year old Indy cannot credibly continue the adventures we're used too.
    Ford IS Indiana Jones, it can be recast, but will it be accepted? Unlikely.

    The question is, accepted by who? People who grew up with Harrison as Indie will never see anyone in the role as comparable, but youngsters seeing a Indiana Jones film at the cinema for the first time absolutely would, because they don't hold that attachment to the way things were.

    Given Harrison Ford has been playing Indy since 1981, and is still the only actor to portray the character on the big screen, no one on earth has grown up with anyone other than him as Indy. This is like re-casting Bond in 1999 after Connery had been the only incarnation of the character since 1962. Teenagers and kids today who happen to watch Indiana Jones films only know Harrison Ford as Indy, as there aren't any film that doesn't feature him as the titular character.

    The only Indiana Jones film to come out in the past 30 years is kingdom of crystal skull, so with all due respect, there is a generation of children, who were babies or not born, that have never seen an Indie film in the cinema, which is what I said. It may startle some to learn that children nowadays are not watching and talking about the OT from the 80's, in their droves. Those films have there place, because of the impact they had at the time of their release, to the children and families of that era. If they want the franchise to continue, they need to create a Indie for this generation, and the same is true of Bond.

    Your argument makes no sense. Try again please.

    Unless you are saying that going to the cinema is the only way for people to watch films, in which case I must announce to everyone that I've never seen any of the Bond films released between 1962 and 1989 since I wasn't alive at the time, and I don't have any possibilities to watch them.

    Not that they have no way to see them, but have no inclination to. You won't get a generation of Indie fans without any new Indie movies. 10 year olds aren't rushing out to buy the OT on Blu-ray, sorry to tell you. They would rather spend the movie to see something new at the cinema.
  • BennyBenny Shaken not stirredAdministrator, Moderator
    Posts: 15,138
    That's a very weak argument @Mendes4Lyfe.
    I didn't see my first Bind film till 1983. I saw all the films to date before I saw TLD in 1987.
    Indy is Fords role. He's been playing it since 1981. As @DaltonCraig007 said, it would be like Connery playing Bond from DN to TWINE.
  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    Posts: 14,585
    It wouldn't be completely alien to Indy fans to see a different actor in the role though, what with Young Indy.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited June 2018 Posts: 15,718

    Not that they have no way to see them, but have no inclination to. You won't get a generation of Indie fans without any new Indie movies. 10 year olds aren't rushing out to buy the OT on Blu-ray, sorry to tell you. They would rather spend the movie to see something new at the cinema.

    Again, you make no sense. How many times have the Indiana Jones films been played on TV on regular broadcasts? And sorry to to tell you, but no kid, teenager on this earth has seen an Indy film on TV that didn't feature Harrison Ford.

    At least you are using your brain gradually more - there's not only the cinema to watch films, and Blu Ray's aren't the only other option either.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,400
    Benny wrote: »
    That's a very weak argument @Mendes4Lyfe.
    I didn't see my first Bind film till 1983. I saw all the films to date before I saw TLD in 1987.
    Indy is Fords role. He's been playing it since 1981. As @DaltonCraig007 said, it would be like Connery playing Bond from DN to TWINE.

    No it wouldn't be, at all. Because there weren't 19 Indie films between 1981 and now, like there were Bond films. I can't see why it's years in the role that matters, over films actually being made. There's no doubt Harrison will always remain the most famous Indie, like Connery will always be the most famous Bond, but it doesn't mean others can't play the role, and successfully. There is a generation, me included, which considers Brosnan "their Bond", inspite of us all having the opportunity to go out and buy the VHS of the old Connery films and prefering him. Fact is, a new Bond (or Indie) is simply going to be more present in the public consciousness, and leave a mark on those of an impressionable age the time. Its why by and large those who grew up in The 70's hold Moore as their Bond, those who grew up in the 90's generally hold Brosnan as their Bond, and kids of the 2000's will hold Craig as their Bond. Such a simple idea shouldn't be so difficult to grasp.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited June 2018 Posts: 15,718

    No it wouldn't be, at all. Because there weren't 19 Indie films between 1981 and now, like there were Bond films. I can't see why it's years in the role that matters, over films actually being made. There's no doubt Harrison will always remain the most famous Indie, like Connery will always be the most famous Bond, but it doesn't mean others can't play the role, and successfully. There is a generation, me included, which considers Brosnan "their Bond", inspite of us all having the opportunity to go out and buy the VHS of the old Connery films and prefering him. Fact is, a new Bond (or Indie) is simply going to be more present in the public consciousness, and leave a mark on those of an impressionable age the time. Its why by and large those who grew up in The 70's hold Moore as their Bond, those who grew up in the 90's generally hold Brosnan as their Bond, and kids of the 2000's will hold Craig as their Bond. Such a simple idea shouldn't be so difficult to grasp.

    The point really goes way over your head. It's a waste of time talking to or arguing with someone who is clearly too clueless to understand simple things.

    Who in the world cares about how many Bond films or Indy films there has been? The point is, since we must spell it out for you, there were 5 Bond actors between 1962 and 1999, but there's been ONE Indiana Jones actor on the big screen in the same timespan. No one on this earth, aged from 1 year to 99 years has seen a single Indy film in cinema, on DVD, on VHS, on Blu Ray, on streaming, on TV, or via illegal download that doesn't feature Harrison Ford as Indy.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,400

    No it wouldn't be, at all. Because there weren't 19 Indie films between 1981 and now, like there were Bond films. I can't see why it's years in the role that matters, over films actually being made. There's no doubt Harrison will always remain the most famous Indie, like Connery will always be the most famous Bond, but it doesn't mean others can't play the role, and successfully. There is a generation, me included, which considers Brosnan "their Bond", inspite of us all having the opportunity to go out and buy the VHS of the old Connery films and prefering him. Fact is, a new Bond (or Indie) is simply going to be more present in the public consciousness, and leave a mark on those of an impressionable age the time. Its why by and large those who grew up in The 70's hold Moore as their Bond, those who grew up in the 90's generally hold Brosnan as their Bond, and kids of the 2000's will hold Craig as their Bond. Such a simple idea shouldn't be so difficult to grasp.

    The point really goes way over your head. It's a waste of time talking to or arguing with someone who is clearly too clueless to understand simple things.

    Who in the world cares about how many Bond films or Indy films there has been? The point is, since we must spell it out for you, there were 5 Bond actors between 1962 and 1999, but there's been ONE Indiana Jones actor on the big screen in the same timespan. No one on this earth, aged from 1 year to 99 years has seen a single Indy film in cinema, on DVD, on VHS, on Blu Ray, on streaming, on TV, or via illegal download that doesn't feature Harrison Ford as Indy.

    ...But you were just saying it would be like if Connery played Bond from 62 until 1999. So if that was the case, there wouldn't have been 5 Bond actors in the role would there? There would have been, that's it, one actor in the role.

    How is the idea of modern movies leaving more an impression on today's kids than classics so hard to wrap your head around. Next you will be saying modern teenagers think of Basil Rathbone when you mention Sherlock Holmes to them, instead of Cumberbatch or Downey Jr. After all, they have access to the Rathbone films by TV, Streaming, Blu-ray, VHS.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited June 2018 Posts: 15,718
    ...But you were just saying it would be like if Connery played Bond from 62 until 1999. So if that was the case, there wouldn't have been 5 Bond actors in the role would there? There would have been, that's it, one actor in the role.

    How is the idea of modern movies leaving more an impression on today's kids than classics so hard to wrap your head around. Next you will be saying modern teenagers think of Basil Rathbone when you mention Sherlock Holmes to them, instead of Cumberbatch or Downey Jr. After all, they have access to the Rathbone films by TV, Streaming, Blu-ray, VHS.

    1. Go back to school and learn how to read the English language, since you seem utterly unable to even understand what I've been saying in my past few posts. Like seriously, are you one of those 10 years old who don't rush to buy Blu Rays, since your comprehension skills are very poor, I doubt you're even 5 years old. If you keep asking such questions, it means you aren't even bothering to read what me and @benny are telling you, or you are too simple minded to understand. And don't project your ignorance to me, I am very well aware that there would be 1 Bond actor in 1999 had Connery been the only person playing the role, that's what I told you an hour ago.

    2. As for your 2nd paragraph, you are a complete idiot. Are you now comparing 1 Indiana Jones actor in 37 years to over 70 actors who have portrayed Sherlock Holmes, sometimes multiple actors at the same time?
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,976
    All right you two, let's get it back on track. No need for personal barbs of any type, especially over an Indiana Jones movie nobody really wants. Back on track and play nice, please.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,400
    So let me get this straight, it doesn't need to get anymore complicated than this:

    If they were to make a new Indiana Jones reboot, featuring similar adventuring escapades as the first 4 films, but with a new actor in the role, modern families and teenagers would refuse to spend their money and the film would not be a success, on the basis that Harrison Ford isn't in the lead role? This is what you're saying?

    Indiana Jones has become a pop culture icon just like Bond or Sherlock Holmes. The fact that only one person has played him, does not mean that no film featuring the character without him would fail. The character and iconography itself is a boxoffice draw, just like with every other franchise in existence, funnily enough.
  • Posts: 5,767
    Damnit that's a good point too! ARRRGGHH I'm stuck in the middle!! Do I want Indy 5 or not?
    I´d say there´s nothing wrong with a great adventure film :-).

  • BennyBenny Shaken not stirredAdministrator, Moderator
    Posts: 15,138
    So let me get this straight, it doesn't need to get anymore complicated than this:

    If they were to make a new Indiana Jones reboot, featuring similar adventuring escapades as the first 4 films, but with a new actor in the role, modern families and teenagers would refuse to spend their money and the film would not be a success, on the basis that Harrison Ford isn't in the lead role? This is what you're saying?

    Indiana Jones has become a pop culture icon just like Bond or Sherlock Holmes. The fact that only one person has played him, does not mean that no film featuring the character without him would fail. The character and iconography itself is a boxoffice draw, just like with every other franchise in existence, funnily enough.


    Can you explain then why Solo : A Star Wars story has been a flop then. By your rationale, it should be a success. To be fair I actually quite enjoyed it. And I might even enjoy an Indy movie without Ford. But then I'm happy with the three good films we got, and can leave it at that. We don't have to continue making them.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,400
    Benny wrote: »
    So let me get this straight, it doesn't need to get anymore complicated than this:

    If they were to make a new Indiana Jones reboot, featuring similar adventuring escapades as the first 4 films, but with a new actor in the role, modern families and teenagers would refuse to spend their money and the film would not be a success, on the basis that Harrison Ford isn't in the lead role? This is what you're saying?

    Indiana Jones has become a pop culture icon just like Bond or Sherlock Holmes. The fact that only one person has played him, does not mean that no film featuring the character without him would fail. The character and iconography itself is a boxoffice draw, just like with every other franchise in existence, funnily enough.


    Can you explain then why Solo : A Star Wars story has been a flop then. By your rationale, it should be a success. To be fair I actually quite enjoyed it. And I might even enjoy an Indy movie without Ford. But then I'm happy with the three good films we got, and can leave it at that. We don't have to continue making them.

    Maybe because it had a notoriously troubled production, switching directors halfway through, and being priced together from two different visions. I didn't say a Indie movie is immune to failure, just that it wouldn't be a failure on the basis that Harrison is not playing him.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Benny wrote: »
    So let me get this straight, it doesn't need to get anymore complicated than this:

    If they were to make a new Indiana Jones reboot, featuring similar adventuring escapades as the first 4 films, but with a new actor in the role, modern families and teenagers would refuse to spend their money and the film would not be a success, on the basis that Harrison Ford isn't in the lead role? This is what you're saying?

    Indiana Jones has become a pop culture icon just like Bond or Sherlock Holmes. The fact that only one person has played him, does not mean that no film featuring the character without him would fail. The character and iconography itself is a boxoffice draw, just like with every other franchise in existence, funnily enough.


    Can you explain then why Solo : A Star Wars story has been a flop then. By your rationale, it should be a success. To be fair I actually quite enjoyed it. And I might even enjoy an Indy movie without Ford. But then I'm happy with the three good films we got, and can leave it at that. We don't have to continue making them.

    Maybe because it had a notoriously troubled production, switching directors halfway through, and being priced together from two different visions. I didn't say a Indie movie is immune to failure, just that it wouldn't be a failure on the basis that Harrison is not playing him.

    I agree. It depends on how it all comes together.
  • Posts: 3,333
    I kinda agree with @Mendes4Lyfe here. Some are creating a hypothetical proposition then changing the goalposts to enforce their own opinion. If the script is strong, the right actor chosen for the role and the direction creative enough to equal the first 3 movies, I don't see why Indiana Jones can't survive a different actor in the role. Some talk as if this series were a sacred cow, when it was heavily influenced by Charlton Heston's Harry Steele in Secret of the Incas (1954), right down to the brown leather jacket, fedora, and tan pants, even part of the story for that matter. If a new actor can capture the spirit of these old matinee movies like Harrison Ford managed to do with his take on Harry Steele then I can't see why a new generation can't have their own young actor to replace him. Personally, I think Ford is too old to continue playing the adventurer.
  • Posts: 2,107
    I agree. Indy 5 with Ford should have happened years ago.

    I am more open to a new actor in the role, than trying to build the action around actor that's close to 80 year old.

    It might work with different type of character, but Indy should remain a fairly young character, or the action wouldn't work that well.

    Maybe Indy 5 will be less action oriented and Indy will just study archeology from old books.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Indiana Jones tells his grandchildren about some of his old adventures, which we then see in animated form. I am all for that.
  • Posts: 4,813
    Some of the comics are very good. One in particular, Tomb of the Gods from 2008, a four-parter, captures the adventure and situational humor of the original movies. They do a good job of drawing him like Harrison.

    A small sample: I could easily picture this in one of the old movies! :))

    tomb-3-page-3.jpg
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    I read a few Indiana Jones comics in the 80s, from Marvel, I believe. They weren t that good. The one above looks much better.
  • Posts: 4,813
    @Thunderfinger I have the Omnibus book with a bunch of the old ones and I agree completely. Not very good.
    They definitely took their time with this one though! I'm actually looking to see if there are more now!
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Tell us if you find any.
  • edited June 2018 Posts: 4,813
    Damn.... it appears that's about it.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indiana_Jones_(comics)

    There were two stories from the mid 90's, Iron Phoenix and Spear of Destiny, which I've never read. Other than that it's just the 80's ones :(

    *edit ok there are a lot more in the 90's, but Tomb of the Gods is the final, most recent one. (sitting at 10 years old....) I'd love move like that!!
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,804
    IMO Solo flopped mainly because Alden is just flat out not as charismatic as Ford. A new Indy film with a new actor would be a resounding success (given great script & direction) if, and ONLY if, a new actor was cast that could equal Ford in the charisma department. And NO look-alikes or guys 'doing' Ford. It has to be like Moore as Bond- the new actor must make Indy his own. This might alienate some of us old guys (not me), but the kids would love it.
    Antarctic Hidden Jungle, 1932...
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