Indiana Jones

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  • edited April 2021 Posts: 1,394
    Its going to be woke.Kathleen Kennedy and Phoebe Waller Bridge are involved.No doubt they will bring up and shame Jones for his womanizing in his younger days and show how incompetent he his compared to all the '' strong female characters '' who will be in the film.

    So pretty much how NTTD is most likely going to be then.
  • DenbighDenbigh UK
    edited April 2021 Posts: 5,970
    I really don't agree with that. For one, Indiana Jones and James Bond are completely different.
    Also, while Indiana had a romantic lead, it's certainly not in the context of womanizing I don't think, so what exactly would he be being shamed for? Falling in love in one movie? Kissing a girl in another? Being seduced by a femme-fatale? And then falling back in love with the same woman from the first movie?

    I think the casting of Phoebe fits with the franchise.
  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    edited April 2021 Posts: 10,591
    AstonLotus wrote: »
    Its going to be woke.Kathleen Kennedy and Phoebe Waller Bridge are involved.No doubt they will bring up and shame Jones for his womanizing in his younger days and show how incompetent he his compared to all the '' strong female characters '' who will be in the film.

    So pretty much how NTTD is most likely going to be then.
    If you go into either film expecting this then you are sure to look for intricate details that suit this narrative, even though it is one completely fabricated by the media - and one that has you and an unfortunate number of other fans fooled.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    edited April 2021 Posts: 8,217
    jake24 wrote: »
    AstonLotus wrote: »
    Its going to be woke.Kathleen Kennedy and Phoebe Waller Bridge are involved.No doubt they will bring up and shame Jones for his womanizing in his younger days and show how incompetent he his compared to all the '' strong female characters '' who will be in the film.

    So pretty much how NTTD is most likely going to be then.
    If you go into either film expecting this then you are sure to look for intricate details that suit this narrative, even though it is one completely fabricated by the media - and one that has you and an unfortunate number of other fans fooled.

    It must be terrible to not be able to enjoy anything anymore because of these precognitions. I feel for him.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited April 2021 Posts: 16,416
    jake24 wrote: »
    AstonLotus wrote: »
    Its going to be woke.Kathleen Kennedy and Phoebe Waller Bridge are involved.No doubt they will bring up and shame Jones for his womanizing in his younger days and show how incompetent he his compared to all the '' strong female characters '' who will be in the film.

    So pretty much how NTTD is most likely going to be then.
    If you go into either film expecting this then you are sure to look for intricate details that suit this narrative, even though it is one completely fabricated by the media - and one that has you and an unfortunate number of other fans fooled.

    Indeed, well said. I don't know why people get so excited about the prospect of desperately finding something to be upset about. As if masculinity is so fragile that it can't stand a few women getting good roles in a film.
    The main baddie in the last Indiana Jones film was (played brilliantly by) a woman. The concept of manhood somehow struggled on.
    Denbigh wrote: »
    I really don't agree with that. For one, Indiana Jones and James Bond are completely different.
    Also, while Indiana had a romantic lead, it's certainly not in the context of womanizing I don't think, so what exactly would he be being shamed for?

    I guess to be fair, if there is anything he should be shamed for it's for his very questionable relationship with the underage Marion! :) But there's zero chance of this big budget action adventure film going anywhere near that because it's supposed to be fun, and it was more than half a century ago from his point of view :D
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 8,216
    In interviews during her involvement with NTTD Phoebe seemed very comfortable with the character of Bond. I didn’t get the slightest impression that she minded him being a womanizer as long as the women we’re consenting. I don’t anticipate Jones’ romantic/exploits being an element in this film.
  • Posts: 1,630
    Indiana Jones and the Adult Living Facility of Atlantis...with Indy wooing all the ladies who remember him from 40+ years prior...
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,217
    I'd wonder where this instant association with PWB being "woke" came from. Neither Fleabag or the first series of Killing Eve had overt elements of the things people generally vocalise displeasure about (rightly or wrongly); there was just well written, well rounded characters. It's a tad baffling to me. I'm sure her dialogue additions to NTTD will be the same. It's not like Bond films have never had strong female presence - it's been growing for the last three decades, especially.

    As for Kennedy - a lot of the creative judgment calls in the recent Star Wars trilogy were not great (certainly not to my liking, at least), but I don't see how that makes her fitting for such an accusation, either.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,416
    talos7 wrote: »
    In interviews during her involvement with NTTD Phoebe seemed very comfortable with the character of Bond. I didn’t get the slightest impression that she minded him being a womanizer as long as the women we’re consenting. I don’t anticipate Jones’ romantic/exploits being an element in this film.

    PWB is only ‘woke’ (and I hate that term) because she seems to believe in writing strong roles for both men and women. I’m not sure what’s supposed to be upsetting about that.
    If you sat these anti-wokesters down in front of Raiders and told them it had been made in 2021 they’d all have taken to Twitter to vent their fury by the time we see Marion drinking a guy twice her size under the table. It’s just boring.

    I agree about a lack of romance for Indy in this one, doesn’t seem likely. Beyond a bit of affection for his wife perhaps.
  • Posts: 669
    mtm wrote: »
    talos7 wrote: »
    In interviews during her involvement with NTTD Phoebe seemed very comfortable with the character of Bond. I didn’t get the slightest impression that she minded him being a womanizer as long as the women we’re consenting. I don’t anticipate Jones’ romantic/exploits being an element in this film.

    PWB is only ‘woke’ (and I hate that term) because she seems to believe in writing strong roles for both men and women. I’m not sure what’s supposed to be upsetting about that.
    If you sat these anti-wokesters down in front of Raiders and told them it had been made in 2021 they’d all have taken to Twitter to vent their fury by the time we see Marion drinking a guy twice her size under the table. It’s just boring.

    I agree about a lack of romance for Indy in this one, doesn’t seem likely. Beyond a bit of affection for his wife perhaps.

    ^^This. This, this, this. PWB has never made any comment about Bond being a womanizer. Her character on Fleabag bangs a whole ton of dudes, so she's not exactly on set to act as the morals police. She was hired for the same reason Paul Haggis was hired for CR: because she's a good dialogue writer and she is capable of taking a good scene and making it great. That's really it. Bond isn't suddenly going to start drinking strawberry daiquiris and only cuddling with women instead of having sex with them just because ONE woman in the entire series' history was brought on to polish (not write) the script.

    Not to sound overly "woke" myself, but if a sixty-year-old movie franchise had been written entirely by women and one man came in to write a draft of its 25th film, would women be discussing it? Would anyone on the planet give a crap? Because it baffles me that PWB's name in the credits is a talking point to anyone beyond "Oh cool, good writer!"
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,416
    Also don't forget that one of the writers of the Dr No and FRWL films was a woman: Joanna Harwood.
  • Posts: 1,394
    mtm wrote: »
    talos7 wrote: »
    In interviews during her involvement with NTTD Phoebe seemed very comfortable with the character of Bond. I didn’t get the slightest impression that she minded him being a womanizer as long as the women we’re consenting. I don’t anticipate Jones’ romantic/exploits being an element in this film.

    PWB is only ‘woke’ (and I hate that term) because she seems to believe in writing strong roles for both men and women. I’m not sure what’s supposed to be upsetting about that.
    If you sat these anti-wokesters down in front of Raiders and told them it had been made in 2021 they’d all have taken to Twitter to vent their fury by the time we see Marion drinking a guy twice her size under the table. It’s just boring.

    I agree about a lack of romance for Indy in this one, doesn’t seem likely. Beyond a bit of affection for his wife perhaps.

    [url="[youtube]


  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,217
    Ah yes, judging an alleged two hour, forty-five minute video on a a trailer lasting just over 1% of the run time. Very good.

    Based on some of the other prominent criticisms made there, are the other Craig films "woke" too?
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,416
    AstonLotus wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    talos7 wrote: »
    In interviews during her involvement with NTTD Phoebe seemed very comfortable with the character of Bond. I didn’t get the slightest impression that she minded him being a womanizer as long as the women we’re consenting. I don’t anticipate Jones’ romantic/exploits being an element in this film.

    PWB is only ‘woke’ (and I hate that term) because she seems to believe in writing strong roles for both men and women. I’m not sure what’s supposed to be upsetting about that.
    If you sat these anti-wokesters down in front of Raiders and told them it had been made in 2021 they’d all have taken to Twitter to vent their fury by the time we see Marion drinking a guy twice her size under the table. It’s just boring.

    I agree about a lack of romance for Indy in this one, doesn’t seem likely. Beyond a bit of affection for his wife perhaps.

    [url="[youtube]


    What am I supposed to be looking at?
  • Posts: 1,630
    The small arrow -- it seems Safin is able to send robot weapons at great distances, which no one at the location seems able to see.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,416
    And it's pointing at 007..!

    I think.
  • Posts: 1,630
    Ha ! At this POINT in the story, it might be POINTING at the retired 007, but there's no POINT speculating until we get to see the story, right ? As for me repeating this dumb joke over and over I agree that the exercise -- you can see where this is going, right ? Even without a POINTER ? -- is rather POINTLESS.
  • DenbighDenbigh UK
    Posts: 5,970
    Harrison Ford, Phoebe Waller-Bridge, Mads Mikkelsen, and Thomas Kretschmann... what a cast so far :)
  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    Posts: 4,636
    Denbigh wrote: »
    Harrison Ford, Phoebe Waller-Bridge, Mads Mikkelsen, and Thomas Kretschmann... what a cast so far :)

    Who will be announced next? Christoph Waltz? Ralph Fiennes? Anthony Hopkins? Karen Allen returning?
  • Posts: 12,526
    Thrilled that Mads Mikkelsen has joined this movie! \m/ :-bd
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited May 2021 Posts: 16,416
    There's also been some talk of filming being planned in Scotland and Sicily.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    edited May 2021 Posts: 8,400
    Why of all things do fans think Bond films should go woke?

    The character represents the exact opposite of that ideology, he's a straight, white western chauvinist male, out for Queen and country. It seems, if the trailers are to be believed, the filmmakers threw the "old ways are the best" message in the lavatory and hopped on the bandwagon instead. Bond has never been a progressive, and its bizarre that anyone would want the films to become that. There are plenty of woke films you can see being made today, it never ends well. let Bond be Bond.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,217
    Why of all things do fans think Bond films should go woke?

    Where did anyone say that?
    The character represents the exact opposite of that ideology, he's a straight, white western chauvinist male, out for Queen and country.

    And he likely will always be that way. For all the pre-emptive criticism of PWB and her minor contributions to the next film; it was her who said (all the way back when she was first hired) that the attitudes in the films and thus the world that Bond inhabits can change but he himself must always stay the same. That's one of the things that can make him interesting going forward - he's a walking, talking anachronism.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,416
    Why of all things do fans think Bond films should go woke?

    The character represents the exact opposite of that ideology, he's a straight, white western chauvinist male, out for Queen and country. It seems, if the trailers are to be believed, the filmmakers threw the "old ways are the best" message in the lavatory and hopped on the bandwagon instead. Bond has never been a progressive, and its bizarre that anyone would want the films to become that. There are plenty of woke films you can see being made today, it never ends well. let Bond be Bond.

    This is the Indiana Jones thread @Mendes4Lyfe - just to confirm that anyone complaining about ‘woke’ isn’t really paying attention :D
  • DenbighDenbigh UK
    edited May 2021 Posts: 5,970
    The character represents the exact opposite of that ideology, he's a straight, white western chauvinist male, out for Queen and country.
    ...the attitudes in the films and thus the world that Bond inhabits can change but he himself must always stay the same...
    ...which also, in turn, makes Nomi's entire presence and the role she plays an important thread within the narrative and its themes, which would make her role even less of a woke gimmick than some would assume.

    Anyway, excited to see how Indiana Jones progresses :)
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,217
    Denbigh wrote: »
    The character represents the exact opposite of that ideology, he's a straight, white western chauvinist male, out for Queen and country.
    ...the attitudes in the films and thus the world that Bond inhabits can change but he himself must always stay the same...
    ...which also, in turn, makes Nomi's entire presence and the role she plays an important thread within the narrative and its themes, which would make her role even less of a woke gimmick than some would assume.

    Anyway, excited to see how Indiana Jones progresses :)

    Yep. I'm sure PWB will be excellent in it, too. ;)
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    edited May 2021 Posts: 8,400
    mtm wrote: »
    Why of all things do fans think Bond films should go woke?

    The character represents the exact opposite of that ideology, he's a straight, white western chauvinist male, out for Queen and country. It seems, if the trailers are to be believed, the filmmakers threw the "old ways are the best" message in the lavatory and hopped on the bandwagon instead. Bond has never been a progressive, and its bizarre that anyone would want the films to become that. There are plenty of woke films you can see being made today, it never ends well. let Bond be Bond.

    This is the Indiana Jones thread @Mendes4Lyfe - just to confirm that anyone complaining about ‘woke’ isn’t really paying attention :D
    Why of all things do fans think Bond films should go woke?

    Where did anyone say that?
    The character represents the exact opposite of that ideology, he's a straight, white western chauvinist male, out for Queen and country.

    And he likely will always be that way. For all the pre-emptive criticism of PWB and her minor contributions to the next film; it was her who said (all the way back when she was first hired) that the attitudes in the films and thus the world that Bond inhabits can change but he himself must always stay the same. That's one of the things that can make him interesting going forward - he's a walking, talking anachronism.

    Doesn't really have mileage for the next, say, 50 years, does it? Bond has moved with the times, but to make him a permanent foil in his own franchise seems like a mighty sacrifice for such a prestigious franchise to have to make. Is there any evidence to suggest people don't like Bond being the way he is, and always has been? As far as I can tell, nothing has changed. In fact, I'd say people go to see Bond films precisely because he is who he is.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,416
    mtm wrote: »
    Why of all things do fans think Bond films should go woke?

    The character represents the exact opposite of that ideology, he's a straight, white western chauvinist male, out for Queen and country. It seems, if the trailers are to be believed, the filmmakers threw the "old ways are the best" message in the lavatory and hopped on the bandwagon instead. Bond has never been a progressive, and its bizarre that anyone would want the films to become that. There are plenty of woke films you can see being made today, it never ends well. let Bond be Bond.

    This is the Indiana Jones thread @Mendes4Lyfe - just to confirm that anyone complaining about ‘woke’ isn’t really paying attention :D
    Why of all things do fans think Bond films should go woke?

    Where did anyone say that?
    The character represents the exact opposite of that ideology, he's a straight, white western chauvinist male, out for Queen and country.

    And he likely will always be that way. For all the pre-emptive criticism of PWB and her minor contributions to the next film; it was her who said (all the way back when she was first hired) that the attitudes in the films and thus the world that Bond inhabits can change but he himself must always stay the same. That's one of the things that can make him interesting going forward - he's a walking, talking anachronism.

    Doesn't really have mileage for the next, say, 50 years, does it? Bond has moved with the times, but to make him a permanent foil in his own fra-

    Indiana Jones?
  • Posts: 1,630
    Jones. Indiana Jones.
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