Could Pierce Brosnan feasibly come back to do a Bond after Craig leaves?

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  • NicNacNicNac Administrator, Moderator
    Posts: 7,582
    The idea that the public weren't ready for an edgy, dark Bond in 1987 is absolute poppycock. Seriously, not true. I was there and believe you me we were all ready for a change of style. Dalton's perception was ideal.
    My argument is that he didn't have the big screen charisma that an actor in such a huge franchise needed. I know some people think he did, but I don't. I think he failed in that department.
    Whether Simon Pegg said this before or after he cast Dalton, I don't know.
  • I was too young to remember but my adopted dad Danny (who was about 30 when TLD came out) always said that he didn't think people were ready for Dalton.
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    edited October 2012 Posts: 13,355
    This is ideal question to ask the originals in their thread at the moment.
  • When TLD came out I was one of the few people my age (mid/late teens) who really liked Dalton. I remember a lot of people saying that he was too "forced" or theatrical. Funnily, the few people I knew that quite liked him where my friends from theatre! Most guys my age didn't think he was cool (which is funny because that's something they wouldn't say about Moore, either) and the only women I knew who found him attractive were either some of my artsy friends or "older" women.

    I can see where they're coming from now that I look at Dalton with older eyes. I still love his portrayal but can see how his style would put some people off.
  • edited October 2012 Posts: 11,189
    I have a feeling that the perception that he "wasn't liked" came from the fact that he was never that well received in America. Looking at the BO figures its clear his films somewhat under-performed there.

    I think the "acid test" for any new Bond actor is whether they are embraced in the States. Perhaps thats a sad state of affairs but it seems to be true.
  • BAIN123 wrote:
    I think the "acid test" for any new Bond actor is whether they are embraced in the States. Perhaps thats a sad state of affairs but it seems to be true.

    What a pity....
  • Posts: 11,189
    BAIN123 wrote:
    I think the "acid test" for any new Bond actor is whether they are embraced in the States. Perhaps thats a sad state of affairs but it seems to be true.

    What a pity....

    Well it does make sense given how big the States is compared to the UK
  • edited October 2012 Posts: 401
    BAIN123 wrote:
    BAIN123 wrote:
    I think the "acid test" for any new Bond actor is whether they are embraced in the States. Perhaps thats a sad state of affairs but it seems to be true.

    What a pity....

    Well it does make sense given how big the States is compared to the UK
    Wasn't the main reason LTK didn't do so well was because it came out around the time of big blockbusters such as Batman, Ghostbusters II, Etc.?
  • edited October 2012 Posts: 11,189
    Yes I think so.

    But even TLD came in at around 19/20 according to BO Mojo.
  • Posts: 1,497
    BAIN123 wrote:
    BAIN123 wrote:
    I think the "acid test" for any new Bond actor is whether they are embraced in the States. Perhaps thats a sad state of affairs but it seems to be true.

    What a pity....

    Well it does make sense given how big the States is compared to the UK

    I'm not so sure I agree BAIN. I mean, I'm just speaking from personal experience as an American myself. Bond in general just isn't as big here as it is in the UK it seems. I know very few people - friends and family who like the series. I'm envious of you guys across the pond who talk fondly of holidays spent watching Bond marathons with the family - seems like a real tradition. Again, maybe you might have an argument statistically (I don't know the US box office numbers to compare), but just speaking culturally, Bond isn't really a big thing here and I can't really remember when it was, at least in the last 15 years. To me, it seems like Bond is more of an international phenomenon, that's why it continues to do well.
  • NicNacNicNac Administrator, Moderator
    Posts: 7,582
    Dr_Metz wrote:
    BAIN123 wrote:
    BAIN123 wrote:
    I think the "acid test" for any new Bond actor is whether they are embraced in the States. Perhaps thats a sad state of affairs but it seems to be true.

    What a pity....

    Well it does make sense given how big the States is compared to the UK
    Wasn't the main reason LTK didn't do so well was because it came out around the time of big blockbusters such as Batman, Ghostbusters II, Etc.?

    Well they didn't help, but poor marketing and Dalton's failure to grab the masses were also considerations.

    We can find lots of reasons why LTK didn't do well, but I have an unpopular theory...
  • edited October 2012 Posts: 11,189
    JBFan626 wrote:
    BAIN123 wrote:
    BAIN123 wrote:
    I think the "acid test" for any new Bond actor is whether they are embraced in the States. Perhaps thats a sad state of affairs but it seems to be true.

    What a pity....

    Well it does make sense given how big the States is compared to the UK

    I'm not so sure I agree BAIN. I mean, I'm just speaking from personal experience as an American myself. Bond in general just isn't as big here as it is in the UK it seems. I know very few people - friends and family who like the series. I'm envious of you guys across the pond who talk fondly of holidays spent watching Bond marathons with the family - seems like a real tradition. Again, maybe you might have an argument statistically (I don't know the US box office numbers to compare), but just speaking culturally, Bond isn't really a big thing here and I can't really remember when it was, at least in the last 15 years. To me, it seems like Bond is more of an international phenomenon, that's why it continues to do well.

    I'm no expert when it comes to these things but it does seem to me that the most universally loved Bond films (GF,TSWLM, CR etc) all performed well in America as well as Britain.
  • Posts: 1,497
    BAIN123 wrote:
    JBFan626 wrote:
    BAIN123 wrote:
    BAIN123 wrote:
    I think the "acid test" for any new Bond actor is whether they are embraced in the States. Perhaps thats a sad state of affairs but it seems to be true.

    What a pity....

    Well it does make sense given how big the States is compared to the UK

    I'm not so sure I agree BAIN. I mean, I'm just speaking from personal experience as an American myself. Bond in general just isn't as big here as it is in the UK it seems. I know very few people - friends and family who like the series. I'm envious of you guys across the pond who talk fondly of holidays spent watching Bond marathons with the family - seems like a real tradition. Again, maybe you might have an argument statistically (I don't know the US box office numbers to compare), but just speaking culturally, Bond isn't really a big thing here and I can't really remember when it was, at least in the last 15 years. To me, it seems like Bond is more of an international phenomenon, that's why it continues to do well.

    I'm no expert when it comes to these things but it does seem to me that the most universally loved Bond films (GF,TSWLM, CR etc) all performed well in America as well as Britain.

    True, fair point for sure. Come to think of it, CR was a pretty big deal here.
  • edited October 2012 Posts: 401
    JBFan626 wrote:
    Come to think of it, CR was a pretty big deal here.
    Was it? All I really remember were the commercials on TV, and seeing a poster for it in my local cinema. Nobody I knew saw it, as far as I can remember. Hell, I didn't even see it in the cinema. I know it did well in the U.S., but I wouldn't have called it a "big deal".

  • Posts: 1,497
    I would say it was 'bigger' than any of the Brozza films. The critics loved it - not that that's worth anything. It certainly was no Goldfinger.
  • Posts: 1,492
    BAIN123 wrote:
    I have a feeling that the perception that he "wasn't liked" came from the fact that he was never that well received in America. Looking at the BO figures its clear his films somewhat under-performed there.

    I think the "acid test" for any new Bond actor is whether they are embraced in the States. Perhaps thats a sad state of affairs but it seems to be true.

    It depends what you individually care about BO or quality?

    Sometimes the two go hand in hand ie CR but more often they don't as a quality script is rewritten so the masses can understand it and put bums on seats. Dalton did two quality products which have stood the test of time and are thought better off then dumb shit like DAD (and GE?)

    :P

    Which reputation is better? Laurence of Arabia or Transformers?
  • edited October 2012 Posts: 11,189
    actonsteve wrote:
    BAIN123 wrote:
    I have a feeling that the perception that he "wasn't liked" came from the fact that he was never that well received in America. Looking at the BO figures its clear his films somewhat under-performed there.

    I think the "acid test" for any new Bond actor is whether they are embraced in the States. Perhaps thats a sad state of affairs but it seems to be true.

    It depends what you individually care about BO or quality?

    Sometimes the two go hand in hand ie CR but more often they don't as a quality script is rewritten so the masses can understand it and put bums on seats. Dalton did two quality products which have stood the test of time and are thought better off then dumb shit like DAD (and GE?)

    :P

    Which reputation is better? Laurence of Arabia or Transformers?

    That's a good point :p

    I will admit that a lot of crap does well but ideally they should go hand-in-hand.

    GF, TSWLM and CR are good films AND rightly did well at the BO.
  • JBFan626 wrote:
    BAIN123 wrote:
    BAIN123 wrote:
    I think the "acid test" for any new Bond actor is whether they are embraced in the States. Perhaps thats a sad state of affairs but it seems to be true.

    What a pity....

    Well it does make sense given how big the States is compared to the UK

    I'm not so sure I agree BAIN. I mean, I'm just speaking from personal experience as an American myself. Bond in general just isn't as big here as it is in the UK it seems. I know very few people - friends and family who like the series. I'm envious of you guys across the pond who talk fondly of holidays spent watching Bond marathons with the family - seems like a real tradition. Again, maybe you might have an argument statistically (I don't know the US box office numbers to compare), but just speaking culturally, Bond isn't really a big thing here and I can't really remember when it was, at least in the last 15 years. To me, it seems like Bond is more of an international phenomenon, that's why it continues to do well.

    I think Bond is bigger in the UK, but it makes more money in America because it's a much bigger market. And I think Dalton wasn't very popular in America sadly.
  • Posts: 11,425
    BAIN, the US box office used to be much more important than it is today. As the number of multiplexes has exploded internationally (all over Asia for instance) so films are geared towards a much wider global audience. Plus, DVD sales are extremely important too. So overall, it matters much less how a film does in the US these days.

    While there are obviously a lot of big Bond fans in the US, there is also a strong history of anti-British sentiment in the US, which might explain why a British secret service agent is not universally popular on the other side of the pond. There are good historical reasons for this, so I'm not having a go at our cousins in Amercia. However, sometimes it does go too far. Many people in the US up until 2001 thought it was perfectly justified to give money to Sinn Fein - money that directly or indirectly ended up funding terrorism in the UK. It was only after 2001 that the Americans took steps to stop this. Many Americans I know with Scots and Irish ancestry regard themselves as rather suspicious of The Brits, and English in particular. May be Skyfall with it's focus on Bond's Scottish heritage will help change attitudes stateside.
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    NicNac wrote:
    The idea that the public weren't ready for an edgy, dark Bond in 1987 is absolute poppycock. Seriously, not true. I was there and believe you me we were all ready for a change of style. Dalton's perception was ideal.
    My argument is that he didn't have the big screen charisma that an actor in such a huge franchise needed. I know some people think he did, but I don't. I think he failed in that department.
    Whether Simon Pegg said this before or after he cast Dalton, I don't know.

    I think audiences weren't ready for Bond to be dark and edgy. For over a decade and for 7 films, you had Roger Moore who had firmly settled in as the fabric of who and what Bond is; mostly light stuff and for Dalton to take things back to the source material, it wasn't something audiences were ready for regarding Bond. They were all for Van Dams, Arnolds Stallones and Willisis but Bond has always been an entity unto and within itself and the audience just saw it as Bond jumping onto this bandwagon, which imo is bs. The EoN documentary explains this perfectly. It's just a shame that the world needed a tragic event to occur for audiences to recognise and see sense. That being said, LTK is an amazing movie and I now rate it higher than TLD and it's fast going up my list.
  • edited October 2012 Posts: 11,189
    doubleoego wrote:
    NicNac wrote:
    The idea that the public weren't ready for an edgy, dark Bond in 1987 is absolute poppycock. Seriously, not true. I was there and believe you me we were all ready for a change of style. Dalton's perception was ideal.
    My argument is that he didn't have the big screen charisma that an actor in such a huge franchise needed. I know some people think he did, but I don't. I think he failed in that department.
    Whether Simon Pegg said this before or after he cast Dalton, I don't know.

    I think audiences weren't ready for Bond to be dark and edgy. For over a decade and for 7 films, you had Roger Moore who had firmly settled in as the fabric of who and what Bond is; mostly light stuff and for Dalton to take things back to the source material, it wasn't something audiences were ready for regarding Bond. They were all for Van Dams, Arnolds Stallones and Willisis but Bond has always been an entity unto and within itself and the audience just saw it as Bond jumping onto this bandwagon, which imo is bs. The EoN documentary explains this perfectly. It's just a shame that the world needed a tragic event to occur for audiences to recognise and see sense. That being said, LTK is an amazing movie and I now rate it higher than TLD and it's fast going up my list.

    I dunno. I was watching some of TSWLM earlier on the Bond movie channel and Moore probably is a bit more appealing and...dare I say...entertaining than Dalton. That said in MR he is quite annoying.

    Am actually seeing some of TWINE as I write this, and while yes Brosnan has his limitations he probably has a more striking manner about him than Dalts.

    One of the problems I have with Dalton's performance is that you can see EVERY emotion on his face - he's very visual. He's angry, he'll show it by looking round and pulling angry faces. He doesn't have the charm or gracefulness of Connery and Moore (people liked that). Connery and Moore made it look easy, with Dalton he often seemed quite self aware.

    Aaahhh! Must stop Dalton bashing
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    off-topic.gif
  • Posts: 11,189
    Oh yeah

    No, he couldn't or shouldn't come back :p
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    I think there's a fair argument to be made Dalton is the least entertaining Bond but that's largely due to the script but at the same time he's one of the more convincing Bonds. There was just no nonsense with Timbo and imo he's a Bond that I could be legitimately scared of. The way he embedded doubt and suspicion into Sanchez' organization was superb.
  • edited October 2012 Posts: 11,189
    doubleoego wrote:
    I think there's a fair argument to be made Dalton is the least entertaining Bond but that's largely due to the script but at the same time he's one of the more convincing Bonds. There was just no nonsense with Timbo and imo he's a Bond that I could be legitimately scared of. The way he embedded doubt and suspicion into Sanchez' organization was superb.

    I do genuinely get the feeling that while Dalton is the stronger actor, Brosnan is probably a bit more...accessable and charismatic. Kind of like Moore.
  • edited October 2012 Posts: 12,837
    He's my favourite but I admit Dalton was not the most charismatic Bond. He can do comedy though, and he's still badass.
  • Posts: 11,189
    He's my favourite but I admit Dalton was not the most charismatic Bond. He can do comedy though, and he's still badass.

    He can do comedy - just not the Moore-style lines.
  • ShardlakeShardlake Leeds, West Yorkshire, England
    edited October 2012 Posts: 4,043
    I was 15 when Living Daylights was released and very much embraced Dalton's Bond and remember loving LTK more although now I prefer TLD slightly more now.

    I think he had a few lines in TLD which were an obvious hangover from the Rog era but he definitely had a strong debut. for me it was all down hill when he left and was greatly relieved when his successor was let go and Craig gave us the best Bond since Connery.

    I think Dalton may well could have been a much greater Bond had he had time to settle into the role but he is still my no.3
  • 002002
    Posts: 581
    off-topic.gif

    your right- Brosnan can come back as Bond (after training and dying his hair darker) and so can dalton if he gets a wig and training
  • Why drag Dalton into this, I don't think he could feasibly return any more than Brosnan can. Let's be serious anyway, Tim won't come back, can't come back and the same, well the same applies to Brosnan also, in that it simply can't occur

    Ok stranger things have happened in the worlds timeline but really, there's no chance that either actor could ever play Bond again. When Craig leaves in say five or six years time or whenever, they'll go for a younger actor or one of say, 30 or 35 years of age I feel, even younger than Craig when he made his debut in 2006
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