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Connery did a FRWL game in 2005, which film/actor would you like to see with a game next?

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  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited July 2011 Posts: 15,712
    You cannot honestly believe the 6th highest grossing film of the year, that made 430 million dollars, nearly killed the franchise. Most people in the industry would kill to make a film as successful as DAD.

    No, what could have had a much bigger chance of killing the franchise is a 3rd Dalton film.
  • 00Beast00Beast
    Posts: 4,762
    The closest the series came to death was after License to Kill. It didn't bring in as much money as those before it, many of the series long-timers left, and there was a 6 year gap between LTK and GE, the longest gap in the series so far.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited July 2011 Posts: 15,712
    Yes, LTK was a huge underperformer. We are lucky Dalton didn't make more outings, or the franchise would end with him. LTK was a financial disaster, a flop compared to MR, made only 10 years before... The franchise was in steady decline during the 80's, so it is a good thing the franchise stopped for 6 years. Had Dalton made another one in 1991, I imagine it would have continued the decline... reaching a catastrophic point. The 3 most underperfoming films were AVTAK, TLD and LTK... Another one would have ended the franchise on the spot.
  • 00Beast00Beast
    Posts: 4,762
    Even though Timothy Dalton is a great Bond actor, I have to agree with you @DaltonCraig007. If he continued on without a Thunderball, Moonraker, GoldenEye, or Casino Royale-type Bond movie, the series most certainly would have died. The four mentioned above were the ones that put their Bond on top, and unfortunately, he didn't have one.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited July 2011 Posts: 15,712
    00Beast - As heartbreaking as it is, we are lucky Dalton didn't make more outings. W needed GE, and we needed another Bond, Brosnan or someone else.
  • 00Beast00Beast
    Posts: 4,762
    @DaltonCraig007: Exactly. People say that they'd like to see Dalton in GE, but unfortunately, I don't think he'd work for that one. Only Pierce Brosnan could pull it off with a win.
  • JamesBondJamesBond
    Posts: 669
    @DaltonCraig007: Exactly. People say that they'd like to see Dalton in GE, but unfortunately, I don't think he'd work for that one. Only Pierce Brosnan could pull it off with a win.
    I also agree. Dalton's 3rd film was going to be titled "The Property of A Lady" which is now run by Craig's upcoming film. As of GE, I'd say that Craig didn't fit for the role. The new GoldenEye had dark story and was full of conspiracy, like Craig's films, it was sadistic equipped with dark concept. And also, lacking the existence of gadgetry ruined the title.
  • 00Beast00Beast
    Posts: 4,762
    @JamesBond: I loved the dark story and dark concept! It worked so well, and I wish more Bond movies would resort to the dark aspects found in such Bond movies as FRWL, OHMSS, TLD, LTK, and GE.
  • JamesBondJamesBond
    edited July 2011 Posts: 669
    @JamesBond: I loved the dark story and dark concept! It worked so well, and I wish more Bond movies would resort to the dark aspects found in such Bond movies as FRWL, OHMSS, TLD, LTK, and GE.
    None of the classic Bond films had dark concept, SPECTRE wasn't as dark as Quantum and the new Janus are. And also there wasn't too much conspiracy in the classic films, but Craig's era is full of them.
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    edited July 2011 Posts: 13,978
    It's BO is the only thing DAD has over LTK. And if it meant preserving the character of Bond, I would be happy if the series had ended in 1989. The Brosnan films might hae been very successful at the Box Office, but look beyond their financial clout, and his films were creatively barren. Say what you want about LTK (and/or TLD), while his two films may never have set the box office alight, they didn't flop and at least Dalton brought new (and positive) elements to the character.

    All that and I didn't mention Daltons conduct when he left the role, compared to Brosnans f-bombs. Dammit, I almost managed it.

    As for the topic at hand, i'd like to see another generic Bond (no, not Brosnan). Or allow the player to create their own 007. Much like Syphon Filter: The Omega Strain & Alpha Protocol, but with more in depth customization.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited July 2011 Posts: 15,712
    they didn't flop and at least Dalton brought new (and positive) elements to the character.
    They severly underperformed. They didn't flop in terms of BO earnings VS budget, but they DID flop in terms of attendance.
  • NicNacNicNac Administrator, Moderator
    Posts: 7,582
    You cannot honestly believe the 6th highest grossing film of the year, that made 430 million dollars, nearly killed the franchise. Most people in the industry would kill to make a film as successful as DAD.

    No, what could have had a much bigger chance of killing the franchise is a 3rd Dalton film.
    I'm not known for agreeing with DC, but this is how I see it. Had they made another Borsnan film after DAD it would have been fine at the box office. Generally people responded positively to DAD, many critics liked it, all was rosey in the garden.

    Maybe MW and BB looked at DAD and said, this is far enough along these lines, time to re-think. Get Campbell in, make CR and from there, plus Brosnan's demands, the idea of a re-boot emerged. I don't know for sure.

    Yes, a third Dalton would have been more harmful. I guess that certain executiver pen pushers took the decision to drop Dalton. He wasn't working, and although he is bottom of the pile in my view he was also not working in USA, the biggest market any franchise operates in.
    Bond fans here generally love him, I know. And they all believe he was better for the series because he captures Fleming's Bond all that stuff, but it matters not a jot. This is a film series that stands and falls by results. Dalton didn't deliver, no matter how good he was. Brosnan was popular, Moore was popular, Dalton wasn't. End of.

    I agree with @MajorDSmythe that Dalton left with dignity, unlike Brosnan, but in Brosnan's defense he loved the role and wanted to continue. He didn't disappear into the night muttering about his career being harmed or how he's been diddled out of money (Connery), or blaming agents for his woes (Lazenby) or treating Bond as a cash cow and never taking it seriously (Moore). Brosnan loved Bond, wanted to do well and entered into the spirit of it all. Which is why he was so peed off.

    In general though 6 actors have become very rich, famous and/or had better careers because of Bond.
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    Posts: 13,978
    I'm sorry, but I don't buy into this idea of Brosnan loving Bond. Like you said Moore treated Bond as a cash cow, Brosnan was no different. He got paid well, he only voiced his opinions after he left the role. If he had done that while he was still Bond, and stand up to EON, he might've had better quality films.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited July 2011 Posts: 15,712
    You have to realize none of the Bond actors are Bond fans. Roger Moore is a guardian angel to the franchise... he is the only one to constantly talk about and praise the franchise. Once he will pass away, I fear none of the other 5 Bond's will take his role of 'The Voice' of the franchise... Moore may have treated Bond as a cash-cow... But atleast he is treating the franchise very kindly now... Without Moore, we would have some kind of disinterest from Bond actors regarding the franchise.
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    edited July 2011 Posts: 13,978
    I think he's a limited actor, a terrible Bond but a very kind and generous human being. Truely one of the last gentleman. But if Moore never said another word about Bond, it wouldn't bother me. I couldn't care less what he thought. This... Bond On Bond book coming out, if it's just Moores views, then I wont bother wasting my money on it.
  • NicNacNicNac Administrator, Moderator
    Posts: 7,582
    I'm sorry, but I don't buy into this idea of Brosnan loving Bond. Like you said Moore treated Bond as a cash cow, Brosnan was no different. He got paid well, he only voiced his opinions after he left the role. If he had done that while he was still Bond, and stand up to EON, he might've had better quality films.
    Brosnan lost the role because of Remington Steele in the 80s, and he was clearly distraught. He got a second chance, but ever since meeting Cubby in 1981 on the set of FYEO I believe Brozzer had his heart set on the role. Listening to his interviews after GE and since shows that he obviously loved the role.

    As for standing up to Eon and making demands, that's easier said than done. Maybe after the success of GE he expected things to continue along the same lines. TND had production set backs and had a shorter shooting schedule. TWINE had an accomplished director, maybe he thought it would work as a more dramatic, less actionful Bond.

    I don't know tbh Major, I just think he loved his time as Bond and wanted to be spoken of in the same breath as SC and RM. Maybe he is.

    The 'cash cow' comment is only based on Moore's comments about not taking the role seriously. He often spoke about this spy being known in every hotel in the world which he described as 'ridiculous'. Then you watch him in non-Bonds in the 70s and he is pushing the bar a little more. He plays Bond like Simon Templer.

    I don't regret any of the actors' involvement in the role. They are all part of the rich history. Brosnan and Moore will be thought of as light hearted performers (and they make up 50% of the total films) but although the films were light hearted at times, the actors more or less always played in straight. (please note I said 'more or less').
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited July 2011 Posts: 15,712
    If you hate Moore AND Brosnan, that's 11 films out of 22... Not a very good love/hate ratio... And I believe you hate Lazenby as well... So that's more than half the franchise you hate...
  • LudsLuds MIA
    Posts: 1,986
    I'm sorry, but I don't buy into this idea of Brosnan loving Bond. Like you said Moore treated Bond as a cash cow, Brosnan was no different. He got paid well, he only voiced his opinions after he left the role. If he had done that while he was still Bond, and stand up to EON, he might've had better quality films.
    I agree, his true nature came out after he got fired, throwing F-bombs left, right, and center about EON, babs, etc. He used this "I love Bond" just to get public sympathy.

  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited July 2011 Posts: 15,712
    I'm sorry, but I don't buy into this idea of Brosnan loving Bond. Like you said Moore treated Bond as a cash cow, Brosnan was no different. He got paid well, he only voiced his opinions after he left the role. If he had done that while he was still Bond, and stand up to EON, he might've had better quality films.
    I agree, his true nature came out after he got fired, throwing F-bombs left, right, and center about EON, babs, etc. He used this "I love Bond" just to get public sympathy.

    Sorry to burst your bubble, but NONE of the Bond actors are Bond fans, or even remotly care of the character. Connery has most likely never seen an outing that he wasn't in, and he demanded royalties for every outing made after him. Other than being there at the DAD premiere, I doubt Lazenby has seen any outing after OHMSS. Dalton speaks only of his movies and Craig's. Brosnan most likely has never seen CR or QOS and speaks only of his outings. Craig speaks rarely of outings predating his. So yes, apart from Moore, who is the 'guardian angel' of the franchise, none of the actors are Bond fans... So I don't see why Brosnan gets all the vitriol.
  • NicNacNicNac Administrator, Moderator
    Posts: 7,582
    I'm sorry, but I don't buy into this idea of Brosnan loving Bond. Like you said Moore treated Bond as a cash cow, Brosnan was no different. He got paid well, he only voiced his opinions after he left the role. If he had done that while he was still Bond, and stand up to EON, he might've had better quality films.
    I agree, his true nature came out after he got fired, throwing F-bombs left, right, and center about EON, babs, etc. He used this "I love Bond" just to get public sympathy.

    But I believe his bitterness at being dropped stemmed from his love of being Bond. He made no secret of the fact he was unhappy at losing the role at the 11th hour in '86. He courted the role, and when he won it he revelled in it. He liked the glamour of being Bond and his arrogance and ego shone through many an interview. So he was dropped, and he realised then that he needed them more than they needed him.
    And as Luds says his true nature came through. He showed non of the integrity shown by Dalton (who I honestly believe was dropped as well). BUT, it doesn't take away from the fact that Brosnan lived and breathed Bond. Not enough to truly apply himself to the role as Craig does, but the glamour of having the best job in the world. Brosnan unfortunately never quite got a handle on the role (his own words I think), he just turned up, spoke the lines and lived the dream.
  • Master_DaharkMaster_Dahark
    Posts: 4,813
    One day, I'd love to see a 'true Bond fan' get the role. He might just be the best Bond yet!
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    edited July 2011 Posts: 13,978
    I'm sorry, but I don't buy into this idea of Brosnan loving Bond. Like you said Moore treated Bond as a cash cow, Brosnan was no different. He got paid well, he only voiced his opinions after he left the role. If he had done that while he was still Bond, and stand up to EON, he might've had better quality films.
    I agree, his true nature came out after he got fired, throwing F-bombs left, right, and center about EON, babs, etc. He used this "I love Bond" just to get public sympathy.

    Sorry to burst your bubble, but NONE of the Bond actors are Bond fans, or even remotly care of the character. Connery has most likely never seen an outing that he wasn't in, and he demanded royalties for every outing made after him. Other than being there at the DAD premiere, I doubt Lazenby has seen any outing after OHMSS. Dalton speaks only of his movies and Craig's. Brosnan most likely has never seen CR or QOS and speaks only of his outings. Craig speaks rarely of outings predating his. So yes, apart from Moore, who is the 'guardian angel' of the franchise, none of the actors are Bond fans... So I don't see why Brosnan gets all the vitriol.

    I'm well aware of that, but at least some of the other Bonds conducted themselves with a lot more decorum and dignity.
    So I don't see why Brosnan gets all the vitriol.

    If only I earned a 1p for everytime i'd seen that (or words to that effect written) written. I could build my own time machine, go back and buy the rights to Bond, and make the series my way. Brosnan isn't the only Bond actor that gets bad mouthed anywhere, so why then is it's always the Brosnan fans who come out with the 'hatred for Brosnan' comments. I've never seen fans of any of the other Bonds comment in such a way
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited July 2011 Posts: 15,712
    I am certainly not a Brosnan fan, with his movies ranking from #17 to #20.

    I wrote "So I don't see why Brosnan gets all the vitriol" only for the "He used 'I love Bond' just to get public sympathy".
    He is NOT the only Bond to not care about the films, franchise or character. Connery doesn't give a damn about all the outings made after his apart from demanding royalties for them. Lazenby doesn't give a damn about any outing made after OHMSS.
  • JamesBondJamesBond
    Posts: 669
    I just can't understand some of the fellows in here. Why do you try to disgrace Pierce Brosnan? He's the best Bond ever after Connery. He gave Bond more suaveness while Dalton stuck with the literary 007. Honesty, I don't like literary Bond, I wouldn't have become a Bond fan if I didn't watch the films. In the books, Bond is not too much cool character, but at least he was good in Carte Blanche.
  • LudsLuds MIA
    Posts: 1,986
    I'm sorry, but I don't buy into this idea of Brosnan loving Bond. Like you said Moore treated Bond as a cash cow, Brosnan was no different. He got paid well, he only voiced his opinions after he left the role. If he had done that while he was still Bond, and stand up to EON, he might've had better quality films.
    I agree, his true nature came out after he got fired, throwing F-bombs left, right, and center about EON, babs, etc. He used this "I love Bond" just to get public sympathy.

    But I believe his bitterness at being dropped stemmed from his love of being Bond. He made no secret of the fact he was unhappy at losing the role at the 11th hour in '86. He courted the role, and when he won it he revelled in it. He liked the glamour of being Bond and his arrogance and ego shone through many an interview. So he was dropped, and he realised then that he needed them more than they needed him.
    And as Luds says his true nature came through. He showed non of the integrity shown by Dalton (who I honestly believe was dropped as well). BUT, it doesn't take away from the fact that Brosnan lived and breathed Bond. Not enough to truly apply himself to the role as Craig does, but the glamour of having the best job in the world. Brosnan unfortunately never quite got a handle on the role (his own words I think), he just turned up, spoke the lines and lived the dream.
    I agree with your entire post NicNac, except for the reason why Brosnan was angry. To me, it's clear that he was angry at not being able to cash the big check again, to no longer be relevant. It was his ego that got hurt, he just couldn't believe he got kicked in the curb...

    Dalton certainly did care enough about Bond to try to portray him a bit more like the novels, that doesn't mean he should get tons of props for it, but at least I buy his possible caring for proper adaptation, and whether he was pushed aside by MGM, (I don't buy Cubby doing so) or decided to step off because of MGM (etc) he showed class.
  • 00Beast00Beast
    Posts: 4,762
    The Spy Who Loved Me would work really well! Here are some ideas for levels:

    (1) The Cold War (pun intended): Race down the mountainside on skis, avoiding gunfire from the pursuing Russians led by Sergei Barsov; make it to the cliff without being killed

    (2) Egyptian Entanglements: Find the apartment of Aziz Fekkesh; pursue Sandor and defeat him

    (3) The Pyramids: Locate Aziz Fekkesh at the pyramid showcase event; pursue him, keeping your distance from Jaws; defeat Ivan and Boris

    (4) Mojava Club Murder: Meet with Major Anya Amasova, and then locate Max Kalba; pursue Jaws to his van

    (5) Trailing Jaws: Along with Anya, follow Jaws through the ancient Egyptian structures; defeat Jaws and make your way back to the van; playing as Anya, drive the van and prevent Jaws from destroying it

    (6) Traveling by Train: Defeat Jaws on the train

    (7) Q's Latest Toy: Race around the winding roads of Sardinia in the Lotus, avoiding gunfire from Stromberg's henchmen (on land and underwater)

    (8) The Liparus: Battle alongside the submarine crews as you attempt to defeat Stromberg's forces.

    (9) Acquire the nuclear missile's explosive, make your way onto the camera rig, and infiltrate the control room; use the console to send signals to the two submarines, telling them to change their target; make it back to the submarine before The Liparus sinks.

    (10) Use the Wetbike to travel to Atlantis; defeat Stromberg and Jaws; find Anya and escape before Atlantis is destroyed by the USS Wayne

    Obviously there would have to be some expansions to the levels in order to make it longer, but otherwise it would stay close to the movie. Any thoughts?
  • Master_DaharkMaster_Dahark
    Posts: 4,813
    TSWLM would definitely make a great game! It's a pity about the rights/likeness issues..... I bet Roger Moore would love to lend his voice and likeness similar to the way Sean did!

  • TracyTracy
    Posts: 1,704
    I heard Connery saw MR.....he didnt care for it granted.

    Ive a hunch GL has seen several of the Bonds......
  • Baltimore_007Baltimore_007
    Posts: 5,634
    I can appreciate Connery's distaste.

    I appear to be miles away, who is GL?

    Think I'll have an early night, could be a long day tomorrow

    :-(
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    I can appreciate Connery's distaste.

    I appear to be miles away, who is GL?

    Think I'll have an early night, could be a long day tomorrow

    :-(
    George Lazenby.
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