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'Bond is just as bad as the bad guys' - Timothy Dalton

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  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Yeah, exactly. That is why Bond has always been considered an anti hero in my eyes.
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    edited October 2012 Posts: 11,189
    UlyssesGamma_Hose wrote:
    BAIN123 wrote:
    Thing is though Rog was clunky in movement. Brosnan was "quicker". Could you imagine Moore pulling off the fight on the yaucht in GE? Not sure if I can - even in his younger days. He's probably "bigger" than Brosnan but he isn't as "agile".

    Fight scenes in the earlier movies were less about agility and more brawls or slugfests - punch one guy, dodge a lamp thrown at your head, slam another guy's head into a mirror. Moore was fighting guys of a similar size to him.

    Brosnan seems more agile, I agree, but also sleight and lacking in strength. I imagine in the legendary hypothetical Bond battle royale, Brosnan would be out first.

    Hmm perhaps - he is a bit puney in parts of GE - but like I said he did have a few moments. I think the Yaucht Mountacore fight was one of his best. It was quick but well staged and, in that scene, Brosnan looked believable to me.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,798
    UlyssesGamma_Hose wrote:
    Fight scenes in the earlier movies were less about agility and more brawls or slugfests
    The good old days. Today it's all about avoiding damage whilst dishing it out. The Connery days were before Bruce Lee...
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,216
    BAIN123 wrote:
    UlyssesGamma_Hose wrote:
    BAIN123 wrote:
    Thing is though Rog was clunky in movement. Brosnan was "quicker". Could you imagine Moore pulling off the fight on the yaucht in GE? Not sure if I can - even in his younger days. He's probably "bigger" than Brosnan but he isn't as "agile".

    Fight scenes in the earlier movies were less about agility and more brawls or slugfests - punch one guy, dodge a lamp thrown at your head, slam another guy's head into a mirror. Moore was fighting guys of a similar size to him.

    Brosnan seems more agile, I agree, but also sleight and lacking in strength. I imagine in the legendary hypothetical Bond battle royale, Brosnan would be out first.

    Hmm perhaps - he is a bit puney in parts of GE - but like I said he did have a few moments. I think the Yaucht Mountacore fight was one of his best. It was quick but well staged and, in that scene, Brosnan looked believable to me.

    The fight with Trevelyan at the climax of GE was a more intense fight than anything Moore ever had.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    edited October 2012 Posts: 17,798
    Abso-friggin'-lutely.
  • HASEROTHASEROT has returned like the tedious inevitability of an unloved season---
    Posts: 4,399
    chrisisall wrote:
    HASEROT wrote:
    Brosnan had his brief moments - but whether it was by design or not, his Bond performance felt the most superficial and hollow than any of the previous actors...
    ENNNNNHHHH, wrong answer, Hans! :))

    as much as i love the Die Hard reference... i must disagree with you on all counts...

    the attempt was made to make Brosnan's Bond with more emotional depth, and to also explore parts of his personality yet explored in the series - to try and make his portrayal a little more 3 dimensional and human.... again, i stress, the attempt was made....

    His Bond comes off more as someone imitating Bond, than it does someone making the role their own... say what you will, but I never felt like he made the role his own - not in the way that Connery, Moore, Dalton or Craig have... IMO, Brosnan was at best an amalgamation of so many different qualities from the previous actors that he failed to have his own unique identity.... his only really good Bond movie was Goldeneye, and that wasn't even written with him in mind - rather Dalton..

    one of the failures in Brosnan's tenure was when they'd give him moments of tenderness and vulnerability, it usually gets undercut but the very next scene - ie: his sorrow over Paris' death in TND, and his cold execution of Dr Kaufman as a result... the very next scene he's laughing it up while driving around the parking garage... not exactly a smooth or realistic transition..



  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,798
    HASEROT wrote:
    one of the failures in Brosnan's tenure was when they'd give him moments of tenderness and vulnerability, it usually gets undercut but the very next scene - ie: his sorrow over Paris' death in TND, and his cold execution of Dr Kaufman as a result... the very next scene he's laughing it up while driving around the parking garage... not exactly a smooth or realistic transition..
    Agreed totally- that sucked like a Hammer movie vampire. As did the underwater tie straightening in TWINE. And the whole second half of DAD. He was surely sabotaged.
    >:P
  • HASEROTHASEROT has returned like the tedious inevitability of an unloved season---
    Posts: 4,399
    chrisisall wrote:
    HASEROT wrote:
    one of the failures in Brosnan's tenure was when they'd give him moments of tenderness and vulnerability, it usually gets undercut but the very next scene - ie: his sorrow over Paris' death in TND, and his cold execution of Dr Kaufman as a result... the very next scene he's laughing it up while driving around the parking garage... not exactly a smooth or realistic transition..
    Agreed totally- that sucked like a Hammer movie vampire. As did the underwater tie straightening in TWINE. And the whole second half of DAD. He was surely sabotaged.
    >:P

    lol.. i personally have nothing against Brosnan, nor his Bond movies - i enjoy them.... well - at least 3 of them ;) .... i just never found his Bond very "deep" .... they tried, but it just didn't work with his Bond IMO - his best Bond performance for me is still in TWINE, but the movie itself was a bit of "meh"..
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,798
    HASEROT wrote:
    his best Bond performance for me is still in TWINE, but the movie itself was a bit of "meh"..
    Yeah, that was great on his part, nearly perfect despite the jagged screenplay.
  • thelivingroyalethelivingroyale
    Posts: 12,837
    HASEROT wrote:
    thelivingroyale wrote:
    Brosnan understood the character, just a different version of it.

    I don't think every Bond has to be close to Fleming. I like how every actor has done his own thing with it. Dalton is my favourite, but if every Bond was like him, it'd be boring.

    Brosnan really only understood the film version of the character - and probably took his cues from Roger Moore..

    you listen to both Dalton and Craig explain the character, and they to immediately go back to Fleming - as when preparing for the role, they both went back and read all the Fleming novels... there is a difference in understanding what makes the man tick - rather just simply throwing on a tux, drinking a martini, shagging a chick and smiling and winking at the camera as you strut from one side of the screen to the other...

    Brosnan had his brief moments - but whether it was by design or not, his Bond performance felt the most superficial and hollow than any of the previous actors... he lacked substance and depth.. and when they tried to incorporate more human qualities into his Bond, they (or him) constantly dropped the ball..

    I disagree.
  • LotusEspritLotusEsprit
    Posts: 160
    My god, after watching him talk about Bond, I once again wish he had done more movies. He really really really understood Bond, at least Flemings Bond.
    Fantastic insight!
    "As bad as they are" maybe puts it a bit too drastic, but I agree with the rest.
    At least Craig understands Bond too!

    As for Brosnan, despite all the criticism, and some may be right so, I really like him.
    I think he is very far from Flemings Bond, but just as with many of the Moore Bonds, I still enjoy it very much.
    Brosnan was a great "Movie Bond", who had his share of fine moments. Even DAD, as much as most us hate it, has fantastic Bond moments.
    As for human qualities, I think there were actually a lot in Brosnans Bond. The pace was sometimes off, I agree. But I think the general theme worked throughout the movie, most of the time at least.

    The one word I would use for Brosnan's Bond performance is "inconsistent".
    Someone already kinda said that, he had to switch a lot. In one scene he had too look vulnerable, next scene he is the laughing action-star. That however comes very much back to the direction and the script.
    Brosnan is by far not my favourite Bond actor, even though he introduced me to Bond and I will forever be grateful with that. But I still enjoy his movies. But since I am working my way through the Blue Rays til Skyfall, I will soon have an up-to-date opinion of his movies.
  • Master_DaharkMaster_Dahark
    Posts: 4,813
    What I gather from what Tim said isn't 'Bond is a murderer' but rather Bond has what it takes to kill without remorse-- those who need to be killed. Bond isn't a 'bad guy'. He's not trying to take over the world and kill everyone. He just has what it takes to pull the trigger.

    I mean, hell- the same could be said about freaking Captain America in WWII to some degree
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    I love how every Brosnan thread turns into a Dalton discussion, and vice versa. :))
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    edited October 2012 Posts: 11,189
    I suppose what Tim means is that Bond has the capability to be "as bad as they are" if he wants to be. He has similar skills and a drive within himself that could rival some of the villains he faces. However I still don't feel he's portrayed in as much of a negative light as the villains. Bond seems to have a conscience. The villains don't.
  • Master_DaharkMaster_Dahark
    Posts: 4,813
    @Bain you better conveyed what I was trying to say, thanks!
    Bond doesn't go around killing people for no reason!
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    Posts: 11,189
    Master_Dahark wrote:
    @Bain you better conveyed what I was trying to say, thanks!
    Bond doesn't go around killing people for no reason!

    He's never referred to as a "meglomanic" or a "psychopath" like a few of his enemies are. Grant for instince for meant to be the polar opposite to Bond. Tall, blonde, muscley, no vices and borderline mad. Bond certainly wasn't mad.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,798
    0BradyM0Bondfanatic7 wrote:
    I love how every Brosnan thread turns into a Dalton discussion, and vice versa. :))

    :)) Does seem that way...
  • GerardGerard
    Posts: 5,993
    Well, in the novels, Fleming himself said so. Especially at the end of TSWLM, when the cop speaks to Vivienne Michel.
  • DRush76DRush76
    Posts: 533


    Bond is of course a killer (ie licence to kill) but no way is he bad like the bad guys. A muderer? Seriously?


    Seriously. He did murder Professor Dent in cold blood. Instead of killing Dent after the latter had spent his bullets, he could have tranquilized the SPECTRE agent, have the authorities remove any cyanide pills before interrogation. Instead, Bond behaved in a vindictive and unprofessional manner and murdered Dent.

    There is also the case of Mollaka in "CASINO ROYALE". Instead of waiting outside of the embassy for the bomb maker (who had a job in Miami), Bond barged into the embassy, grabbed Mollaka and dragged him outside. Then he killed Mollaka, caused an explosion, took the bomb maker's backpack and left - and caused a major international incident at the same time. No wonder M was pissed.
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