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The trouble is, @Bond_Bombshell, that there's only one BBFC video classification for the film from 1988 - 1994 so it's impossible for you to have seen the shot on a VHS rental copy of the film. It looks as though you're misremembering.
John Grover, the editor of the film, pointed out that the very intention of the shot which is actually in the film was to give that impression. So it's a pretty understandable impression to have.
Yes, the evidence weighs heavily in your favour but what can I say? I can't be any more certain that I saw the shot than I am. I'm aware of how false memory works and had I been a child at the time I would be doubting myself right now, but I was a seasoned Bond watcher. Anyway, I'm in danger of repeating myself now and I don't want to keep going on and on about this. I do acknowledge how unlikely it seems.
I actually contacted Ms Hey very recently with all the relevant information (in the best possible taste) and explained everything, but still await a repsonse, although it was only very recent. If only to put an end to this damn thread once and for all
Never seen a furore over so little
I spoke with the editor last week @Baltimore_007 with the same hope. He confirmed that the phantom shot was never filmed at all and yet here we still are. I think this thread is unstoppable!
The only way for it to stop is if someone got hold of a US cinema reel to reel from 87...then got something to play it on.
Touche', @Suivez_ce_parachute ;) That made me smile; some good truth in there.
Although I am not your opponent, nor anyone's opponent here. I am a semi-interested bystander.
@Suivez_ce_parachute
I really appreciate the info concerning the French SECAM version. This is interesting to know. One thing I think is important for me in my search is that any of the VHS tapes I look at should fall into the 1988 to 1989 release versions (depending on the actual country's earliest video release date). Because VHS lasted a mighty long time, and there are probably gonna be a lot of different releases (with differing covers) for every couple of years.
In collecting a lot of Italian cult films, one thing many collectors found was that they often could find the most uncut/ uncensored prints in english from Greece. I'm not sure why this is, but I suspect that it may have to do with Greece maybe being too small of a country or the amount of people who spoke Greek was in minority to the amount that spoke other European languages. Also, they probably didn't/ couldn't afford a Greek dub, so they would subtitle the film in Greek and go with the English/ international Dubbed print. Whatever the reason, most bootlegs of Italian cinema that we watched in the U.S. came from Greece. Now this doesn't mean, that I concretely think that Greece holds the key to my memory or anything, it's just that they tended to have a history holding uncensored versions of films on video in the past. Just a bit of trivia from a massive video collector.
@Sir_James_Moloney
"...there's only one BBFC video classification for the film from 1988 - 1994 so it's impossible for you to have seen the shot on a VHS rental copy of the film."
It's a solid point that I will grant you. But like our friend, I too feel certain of what I saw. Now this was seriously a minor nude scene (a very quick cut), it wasn't porn or anything too crazy, so it is possible the cut snuck by without too much notice. I've listed in the past threads a list of PG films that had full on breast shots in them, so this is seriously not an impossibility. Heck, the other day Airplane II came on, and within' ten minutes there's a shot of Robert Hays painting a picture of flowers or something, and then it's revealed that his model is a naked Asian woman (revealing a full on breast shot). Now this is in a PG film, and I just saw this on cable a week ago. So the PG rating that everyone has thrown at me is not the most sound excuse for this edit to be a complete impossibility.
I may never find the cut I believe I saw in the theater in 1987, BUT I myself will feel a bit more convinced of my memory if I continually find different edits of that particular scene. Because there is no accounting for "why" this scene has been continually messed with? I hardly doubt it was where they changed the reel every time. There is also no accounting for why the print at MOMA also had different cut (and I just saw that one late last year).
One of the reasons I'm very invested in this topic and thread, is because it's a moment/ scene I've never seen talked about on either commentary or books. Yet others have talked about it on other forums since 2001. Fact or fiction, it's sort of peculiar, don't you think?
My point about the BBFC is a bit of a diversion from your recollection, @Jarrod, as it's only really relevant to what @Bond_Bombshell thinks he saw because it only applies to the film's release in the UK (so this particular point has no relevance to your memory of the film.)
It's nothing to do with the PG classification of the film and what sort of nudity may have been permitted but, rather, a bureaucratic point about how many versions of the film have ever existed in the UK.
Every time a cut is made to any film in the UK (regardless of how minor or irrelevant) it needs to be reclassified by the BBFC before it is made available to the public. Even if one decided to shave 24 frames off the start of the gun barrel sequence, for example, one would have to resubmit it to the BBFC for reclassification.
it's a matter of record that there was only one version of The Living Daylights ever made available in the UK on VHS between 1988 and 2000. It was classified by the BBFC on 23 February 1988.
(To be precise, there was actually a second VHS version of the film classified by the BBFC on 05 May 1994. But this was the widescreen version of the film. But that has no bearing on our discussion)
It's simply not possible that a "rogue" version of the film could sneak by beforehand. Therefore @Bond_Bombshell's memory of seeing the phantom shot on a rental video in the UK is certainly a false one.
Don't wait up for that reply!
And keep an eye on the street to see that police SWAT van rolling up.
And this is why this thread can never end. Each week just a final poignant shot of Jarrod moving on to another different version of TLD on VHS, Laserdisc or DVD as he searches for his answer, soundtracked by this:
Best laugh all day well done to you @Wizard.
The SECAM/PAL difference is just color encoding, really, purely technical stuff.
However, you should not expect any difference between French VHS versions despite the numerous different versions of the French packaging over time : simply because of the dubbing. IMO You can't imagine a French company to (even slightly) re-edit the dubbed soundtrack to match another eventual version with a different cut (even if it's a split-second that is changed, it has impact on the whole dubbing sync obviously, the human ear/eye is ultra sensitive to any out of sync dubbing). It's really only for well advertised "director's cut" and so on, I think. It may have something to do with the reasons why you feel some subtitled/dubbed versions are the most uncut of those available, etc (= work done once and forever, no possibility to cut after that).
For the anecdote, there is no French dubbed Blu Ray version of the Persuaders because of the cost of making this French dubbed version available according to the French company that has the rights (TF1 Video), despite the French dubbing of this TV show being incredibly popular here, and the French dubbed DVDs already available for years (one would imagine the sync work is "already done" on digital format). The DVDs were even offered at low price with the most popular TV magazine here a few years back (and before the DVDs, it was shown quite regularly on TV still !).
Verrrry nice! Good use of music too. Great cinematography. Totally held my interest! And of course, you sir are very Bondian. ;)
Still no response from Ms Hey on this issue, been a couple of days now, and you have to wonder if any feedback will occur at all, they could of acknowledged the request, but as with all things regarding this issue, it looks like it could be a long wait before we finally get a satisfactory answer on this whole damn debate. Can only try and glean some information from the most relevant person this relates to, but seems a bit of a dead issue now
Thanks for the SECAM/ PAL info, seriously. One thing I think is kind of interesting, is that all the Bond films have different dub prints for each country, that was made before it appeared on video. I know that Bond also has a history of having different cuts for certain counties. An example would be, when I was in Germany I rented a German dubbed VHS of OHMSS, and I found that on their video version they completely edited out the safe cracking scene, as well as the scene where Campbell tries to get a cable car ride to Piz Gloria. Also, when I saw Goldeneye in the theater, I noticed there was a quick cut when Xenia massacres all the workers where Goldeneye is stolen. When Xenia is finished spraying machine gun fire, she makes a couple of orgasmic sighs, and they cut this out! It was very quick, but I remember thinking omg the edited Goldeneye! (I wonder if they did this for the video release?) The fact that Germany alone has at least two times edited a Bond film, gives me hope in thinking you just might never know what you find if you start digging around for different copies from different countries. But I love the input Suivez_ce_parachute.
Thanks @chrisisall for watching! It was fun to make!
@Baltimore_007
I'm not sure I myself would have asked Ms. Hey, but I'm still sure curious of what she might say. The thing is, is that I've been wondering about this for 25 years, I never really expected to get my definitive answer that quickly anyways. The thing with the internet, is that I think everyone expects a kind of instantaneous answer for everything. Sometimes it's not that way I've found.
=D>
I concur.
Yes, you can even simply google "name of the movie" + "alternate version" to have such infos about foreign cuts (probably always incomplete, but at least when a cut is listed, it probably exists indeed).
You'll often end on some IMDB page full of redundancies and possible inaccuracies, but there are also some TCM pages that look more serious (although it's just my opinion !). Plus some review sites, some of which go to very detailed analysis of the various DVD version (like zetaminor.com for instance), although they mostly focus on the change of the image's cinematography (the differences can be incredible).
"The Living Daylights" + "alternate version" is a no, no, though :) While OHMSS or LTK and many others will give you dozens of change...
I can see how this might give you hope but these versions were well documented and people were aware of them for years. The differing OHMSS cuts I knew about in the late 80's but only finally got to see the scenes restored in the 25th anniversary box set (memo to EON now that was how you do a collectors edition. Shame we had to go backwards for the 50th).
The point here is that fans knew all about these versions (as they did about the different 'one that got away' lines in TB and the 'James Bond Will Return' captions) even if they had not seen them.
What you are talking about with TLD is something totally different that neither the BBFC, MPAA, or the vast majority of fans have any evidence of.
Look at how many times film lines are quoted wrongly, though those will swear that's what they heard. 'Play it again Sam' being perhaps the most famous.
Obviously the side shot of the boob followed by a frontal shot has made you think that you saw a full-frontal shot. Films manipulate, that is there very purpose.
The 64 million dollar question is: Do you still have that VHS of TLD, @Bond_Bombshell?
Sorry to tell you...
http://thumbs3.ebaystatic.com/d/l225/m/m5N2PBTClIR2qj3wKwKeohA.jpg
http://blog.joins.com/usr/f/i/fivecard/14/UrsulaAndress_DRNO_shower_with_bodysuit.jpg
Not naked.
Back in the day on VHS you could convince yourself on that one but bluray exposes the truth.
Mind you bluray shows up Lisl's 'nightie slipping' better than VHS ever did so swings and roundabouts.
Then there's the nude scene of Tatiana Romonova slipping into Bond's bed in his hotel room in FRWL. Quality. Only recently noticed how clear things were on DVD.
Too bad it wasn't Daniela Bianchi. It was a body double.