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The Score of Skyfall

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  • ZekidkZekidk
    Posts: 3,274
    DaltonCraig007

    So are you saying that I am "rewriting the history books" because I argue that talent is needed when writing good and memorable melodies?

    What kind of a lame argument is that?

    And why are you not answering my questions?

    Now... have you dug up anything on Barry criticizing Arnold?
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,713
    You are grasping at straws... Please explain why Arnold's music is very basic, simple, and seriously lacking in complexity ?

    And you rewrite the books because orchestrating is very important, as important as writing. So nearly half of the end results on the 5 last Bond soundtracks simply isn't from Arnold's work.
  • ZekidkZekidk
    edited November 2011 Posts: 3,274
    Oh... but of course orchestrating is important. So are the craftsmen when building a house. But they get nowhere without the design and plans made by the architect.

    For the last five Bondmovies, Arnold has been a great architect, IMO. Like I wrote so many times earlier in this thread: you may disagree, like I disagree when you are arguing that his work is "lazy" and "lacking." Actually I find a lot of "complexity" in a lot of his work, and so would you probably, if you would put your prejudice towards him away for a while.

    Earlier you wrote that Arnold's best work so far was in QoS. Great! So according to you he is getting better and better. And you still want to axe him?
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited November 2011 Posts: 15,713
    Have you listened to his scores atleast ? They are very simply and basic. Yes there is the occasional moment of brillance, but apart from that his scores are very simply.

    You simply cannot say a lot of his work is 'complex'. It simply isn't true. It's not a matter of opinion, or liking/loving/hating, but a fact. You love his music ? Fine. But don't go around saying untrue things about him. Yes he is good in rare moments, but that's it. The vast majority of his work is very simply and basic.
  • SaintMarkSaintMark
    edited November 2011 Posts: 7,653
    Yes, please. Axe him :!!
  • ZekidkZekidk
    Posts: 3,274

    You simply cannot a lot of his work is 'complex'. It simply isn't true.
    Actually it is. Do you want more examples than the ones I posted earlier?

    It's not a matter of opinion, or liking/loving/hating, but a fact. You love his music ? Fine. But don't go around saying untrue things about him.
    LOL, that's coming from a guy who's calling him "lazy"?
  • SaintMarkSaintMark
    Posts: 7,653
    Is Zekidk DA in disguise by any chance? ;-) :-D
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited November 2011 Posts: 15,713
    For crying out loud, listen to the damn soundtracks. Are 'CCTV', 'Unauthorized Access' one of the tracks that people will hum in 20 years ? Will people around the world remember the start of 'Blunt Instrument' ? 'Reveal' ? The rom-com part of 'Dinner Jackets' ? I can go on and on an on.

    And please explain why Arnold insists on using the same very limited orchestral range, the same limited number of instruments ? Why doesn't he diversify himself ? Why does he insist on using sound mixing instead of actually working and learning about new instruments ?
  • ZekidkZekidk
    edited November 2011 Posts: 3,274


    The sweeping strings, the layered background, the complex rhythmic textures, the somber french horn, the punctuating percussion motif. This example symbolizes in its essence and structure and atmosphere everything I’ve come to love from a James Bond-score.

    Not "complexed" enough for you? I don't care!

    And you can find "filler" in all of Barrys soundtracks, too, btw!
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited November 2011 Posts: 15,713
    One track is all you can think of ?

    Compare that track with this



    Atleast the repeating motifs go somewhere. Once 'Night at the Opera' goes back to the first motif, the track is very simple and basic. Barry worked wonders with repeating motifs. Atleast Arnold tried.

    Try all you want, but you are grasping at straws.
  • ZekidkZekidk
    edited November 2011 Posts: 3,274
    No, there are several. But why bother? You have made your mind up, so it doesn't matter what I write or post!!!
  • HASEROTHASEROT has returned like the tedious inevitability of an unloved season---
    Posts: 4,399
    And you keep knitting and knitting and knitting and knitting and knitting and knitting...
  • SaintMarkSaintMark
    edited November 2011 Posts: 7,653
    I did like the opera music too. Oh no that was by another composer. ;-)

    I have all the soundtracks but the last two get only a few listenings. Am off to watch 'Lewis", has a decent composer too. (Barrington Pheloung)
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited November 2011 Posts: 15,713
    No, there are several. But why bother? You have made your mind up, so it doesn't matter what I write!!!
    Because you are wrong. Get over it. The large majority of his work is very simple and basic. You cannot dispute that fact. Continue with your Arnold loving, but it doesn't change the fact that his work is seriously lacking in complexity.

    Arnold has the same limited orchestral range, the same limited number of instruments... the same over-reliance on sound mixing... the same over reliance on his orchestrator. You can't dispute those facts.

    I think you haven't studied enough in music classes because it is beyond comprehension that any musician would find complexity in TND, TWINE, and CR. I didn't put DAD because atleast in that one did Arnold compensate his lack of musical knowledge with some clever electronics and sound mixing (for once).
  • ZekidkZekidk
    edited November 2011 Posts: 3,274
    No, there are several. But why bother? You have made your mind up, so it doesn't matter what I write!!!
    Because you are wrong. Get over it. The large majority of his work is very simple and basic. You cannot dispute that fact. Continue with your Arnold loving, but it doesn't change the fact that his work is seriously lacking in complexity.

    This is not a fact. This is your personal opinion! For me - there's a lot of complexity to be found in his work. I already posted one example, which you did not even argue against. Instead you just decided that you want to repeat yourself, like it didn't exist, LOL
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited November 2011 Posts: 15,713
    This is not a fact. This is your personal opinion! For me - there's a lot of complexity to be found in his work, due to his layers and harmonies fx. I already posted one example, which you did not even argue against. Instead you have just decided to repeat yourself!
    Yes it is a fact. Listen to this damn soundtracks for proof. I have been years in a music school for 12 years, 6 years in a conservatoire including 5 years of playing in an orchestra. It is dead evident, clearly obvious that Arnold's music is very basic and simple. So get over it and accept it. Yes you can continue loving Arnold. But you can't just go around telling lies about his music.

    It is a fact that his music is basic. End of. It is a fact he uses a very limited orchestral range, it is a fact he prefers to rely on sound mixing rather than learning about new instruments.

    Stop disputing the facts. It is YOUR right to like Arnold. But it is simple fact that his work is basic.

    What is so hard in admiting you like basic music ? I myself don't have problem in admiting I love the film 'The Core', which is far from being a masterpiece.

    You seem to have got it in the head that Arnold's work is complex. It ISN'T. Just listen to his soundtracks, which obviously you haven't done recently, and listen to it carefully, with an open mind and not with blind love.

    Anyone is allowed to love bad music, a bad song, a bad book, a bad game. Anyone can have fun and find entertainement in mediocre things. They can love these mediocre things. But to make these things pass for masterpieces or for the second coming is just wrong.
  • ZekidkZekidk
    edited November 2011 Posts: 3,274
    But you can't just go around telling lies about his music..
    Are you calling me a liar?

    Who's telling lies here, huh?

    Where's that Barry-quote where he supposedly "bashes Arnold"?

    It is a fact that his music is basic. End of it.
    Some of it is - agreed! Most of it isn't! You really want more examples?

    And who's "gasping at straws" here? I've been in the music industry for years, too. But, unlike you, I have no intention of using that information to prove my points!
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,713
    What is so hard in admiting you like simple music ? I happen to also like simple music, simple books, simple films... I don't feel ashamed to love simple or even bad things.

    And yes, a large majority of Arnold's work is very basic. Only on a few rare occasions did he show some brillance.
  • ZekidkZekidk
    edited November 2011 Posts: 3,274
    Because I don't agree with you, DaltonCraig007, when arguing that his work in general is "lazy" and "simple." That's why! I respect that you have another opinion towards him and his work. I just don't agree with most of your comments about him.

    Your definition of "brilliance" is just different than mine - is that so hard to accept?

    I find brilliance in all of his soundtracks. Not all tracks of course. Some are good, some are dull, a few awful, some are "basic". But there are always at least 3-4 tracks that I really like, and that I find fantastic. I have the same view towards all of the Barry soundtracks, btw!
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited November 2011 Posts: 15,713
    3-4 tracks you really like per soundtracks ? That's 20 tracks in... 120 tracks ? 1/6th ?

    And you still haven't accepted that Arnold has a very limited orchestral range, and that he prefers to rely on sound mixing rather than learning about new instruments.

    And you seem to listen to his soundtracks with ear-muffs at times, because the vast majority of tracks on CR are mindblowingly dull. TWINE has about half the tracks that are bad, TND has maybe a little less than half that are awful. And QOS has several awful tracks. And by bad I mean 'basic, simple tracks, seriously lacking in complexity', which you just can't argue with.

    You happen to LIKE these tracks? Fine. But to call them musically complex is just wrong. So please accept that you like simple music. Not everyone loves Bach or Bethoven.
  • ZekidkZekidk
    Posts: 3,274
    Yes... like I said. I find some good, some (3-4), to be fantastic, and the rest to be either filler or plain awful.

    Actually you can say the same thing about the most of my record collection! Even the Barry and Led Zeppelin ones :-)
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited November 2011 Posts: 15,713
    I would say I find 3-4 tracks good per soundtracks, with 1-2 great ones. So about 6 tracks that catch my eyes (or ears, in this case ;-) )... But I admit if you cut the tracks in cues of say 30 seconds each, there are quite a few moments I really like (especially in TWINE and DAD).
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited November 2011 Posts: 15,713
    I don't know about you, but



    Is my favorite Arnold track by a fair margin.

    And this one is great too :

  • SharkShark Banned
    Posts: 348
    Shark.

    If you "don't need consensus" why on earth are you asking if "that's the best" I got?
    I'm asking if that's all come you come up with for argument, a bunch of reviews from the interwebs. I don't care about the uninformed opinions of hacks like Chris Clemmensen, and I want to hear your views.
  • ZekidkZekidk
    edited November 2011 Posts: 3,274
    Shark.

    If you "don't need consensus" why on earth are you asking if "that's the best" I got?
    I'm asking if that's all come you come up with for argument, a bunch of reviews from the interwebs. I don't care about the uninformed opinions of hacks like Chris Clemmensen, and I want to hear your views.
    I completely understand!

    So you want me to start all over from the beginning? With +20 comments in this thread, I would say that I've shared plenty of "views"!

    DaltonCraig007 : Actually, for me, I prefer his slower classic tracks, like in the style of these:

    (from 1:10)




    And one of my favorite Arnold-tracks (the build-up in this one is fantastic):
  • HASEROTHASEROT has returned like the tedious inevitability of an unloved season---
    Posts: 4,399
    "Kowloon Bay" , "Body Double" , "Hovercraft Chase" , "City Of Lovers" and "Time to Get Out" are my top 5
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited November 2011 Posts: 15,713
    "Kowloon Bay"
    Agreed.
  • SharkShark Banned
    Posts: 348
    I'd probably go with "Hamburg Break-In", "Kowloon Bay", "Bilbao Bank Escape", "Torture Queen", "A Touch of Frost", first half of "Laser Fight", "Whiteout",""Iced Inc.", "African Rundown", "Time to Get Out" and "Inside Man."
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,713
    I'd probably go with "Hamburg Break-In", "Kowloon Bay", "Bilbao Bank Escape", "Torture Queen", "A Touch of Frost", first half of "Laser Fight", "Whiteout",""Iced Inc.", "African Rundown", "Time to Get Out" and "Inside Man."
    Agreed on everything.

  • HASEROTHASEROT has returned like the tedious inevitability of an unloved season---
    Posts: 4,399
    i wanted to add a few more earlier, but i hate typing on my phone - as it's starting to become a POS..... anyways... my favorites by Arnold would have to be...

    - "Gun barrel / White Knight"
    - "Paris & Bond"
    - "Back Seat Driver" (thanks to you @DaltonCraig007 - i forgot about this little gem lol)
    - "Kowloon Bay"
    - "All In Day's Work" (i think it's a stellar action piece, which has probably the most beautiful ending to any of his works, IMO)
    - "Come In 007, Your Time Is Up"
    - "Access Denied" (simple, but perfect)
    - "Welcome To Baku" (kind of like Blunt Instrument.. a "meh" beginning, but strong finish)
    - "Elektra's Theme"
    - "Body Double" (a lot like Access Denied, simple, but perfect IMO)
    - "I Never Miss"
    - "Hovercraft Chase"
    - "Some Kind Of Hero"
    - "Welcome To Cuba"
    - "Icarus"
    - "Whiteout"
    - "Antonov"
    - "African Rundown"
    - "Blunt Instrument"
    - "Solange"
    - "I Am The Money"
    - "Vesper"
    - "The End Of An Aston Martin"
    - "City Of Lovers"
    - "The Switch"
    - "Time To Get Out"
    - "The Palio"
    - "Bond in Haiti"
    - "Night At The Opera"
    - "Target Terminated"
    - "Camille's Story"
    - "Oil Fields"
    - "Perla de las Dunas"


    i know that is a lot to digest... but usually, when i make Bond mixes - those are the songs I usually put on there from Arnold.

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