The Score of Skyfall

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  • Posts: 638
    Quoting Shark: Great cast I'd agree, but it's not a very good film.
    The Sting not a very good film???

    I think the time has come that we all must declare Shark as legally insane :-D
  • SharkShark Banned
    Posts: 348
    Quoting sheriouslysean: For example, I'm sure that Serra could have done a good soundtrack to the Ferrari/Aston chase sequence in Goldeneye, however it appears that there was a lack of direction (no pun intended) and instead Serra reverted to goofy sounding score, instead of dramatic or tense.
    Then clearly you haven't listed to the Goldeneye score in a while. The vast majority of it is composed of either romantic, or dark ambient suspense. Most of the 'goofy' tracks didn't end up in the final film, with the exception of Ladies First, which fitted the sleaze of the scene perfectly.
    Quoting Mr_Sterling:




    The casino royale score is far from boring son.
    Out of 40 odd tracks in the complete score release, about 4 are worth listening to in full. There's interesting moments in general, but they're needles in a haystack.
    Quoting sheriouslysean: Other suggestions for composers would be Hans Zimmer (that would certainly be a big sound :D )
    That'd be the musical equivalent of hiring Michael Bay to direct Bond 24.

    Personally I'd agree with Elliot Goldenthal, and add Don Davis and Lalo Schifrin.
  • SharkShark Banned
    Posts: 348
    Quoting jaguar007:
    Quoting Shark: Great cast I'd agree, but it's not a very good film.


    The Sting not a very good film???



    I think the time has come that we all must declare Shark as legally insane :D
    It's just a Hollywood bukkake fest.
  • Quoting Shark: Lalo Schifrin
    Lalo would certainly be interesting to hear. Likewise, I've always quite admired Dave Grusin's compositions. I reckon that it would be quite interesting to hear a more jazz influenced side to Bond. Regarding Grusin, I have some reservations about him composing a major action scene soundtrack, however tense, romantic and dramatic themes would be easy for him. I hope when David Arnold moves away from Bond, there isn't a drive towards cutting edge soundtracks.
    Quoting Shark:
    Quoting sheriouslysean: Other suggestions for composers would be Hans Zimmer (that would certainly be a big sound :D )


    That'd be the musical equivalent of hiring Michael Bay to direct Bond 24.
    Michael Bay :O - that's a very scary thought (far too cheesy and every second shot would have to be in colour-filtered slow motion)!! I'd agree that Hans Zimmer would be similar to James Newton Howard or James Horner undertaking a Bond composition, however in fairness John Barry was one of the biggest names in film composition for some time and undertook many major and critically acclaimed projects whilst composing for Bond films. I also reckon that out of the majority of mainstream composers, Zimmer has probably the most grit when hitting hard action scenes (apart from John Powell, but then that brings us back to parallels with the producers attempting to "Bourne" Bond).
  • SharkShark Banned
    Posts: 348
    Quoting sheriouslysean:


    Quoting Shark: Lalo Schifrin
    Lalo would certainly be interesting to hear. Likewise, I've always quite admired Dave Grusin's compositions. I reckon that it would be quite interesting to hear a more jazz influenced side to Bond. Regarding Grusin, I have some reservations about him composing a major action scene soundtrack, however tense, romantic and dramatic themes would be easy for him. I hope when David Arnold moves away from Bond, there isn't a drive towards cutting edge soundtracks.


    Definitely agreed on Dave Grusin. Though I disagree with you on your reservations of him scoring an action. One of my biggest qualms with modern scores in general, is too much music. Films are over-spotted, overscored. Scenes that don't need music at all, or at the most, very subtle music, are given intrusive, obvious and redundant underscore. i.e. the tender shower scene in CR, ruined by Arnold's late Barry-ripoff that calls far too much attention to itself, and takes away from what's happening on screen.

    Same goes for action. The music should add an external element, that doesn't mimic the pace, or merely underline in bold marker pen what's already apparent. It should suggest things that the director couldn't (for whatever reason) get. That's why John Barry always plaid by behind the beat of a scene.

    Personally I would have loved to have heard what Roy Budd would have done with a Bond score. I'd rather that than what Marvin Hamlisch gave us in TSWLM.
    Quoting sheriouslysean:
    Michael Bay :-O - that's a very scary thought (far too cheesy and every second shot would have to be in colour-filtered slow motion)!! I'd agree that Hans Zimmer would be similar to James Newton Howard or James Horner undertaking a Bond composition, however in fairness John Barry was one of the biggest names in film composition for some time and undertook many major and critically acclaimed projects whilst composing for Bond films. I also reckon that out of the majority of mainstream composers, Zimmer has probably the most grit when hitting hard action scenes (apart from John Powell, but then that brings us back to parallels with the producers attempting to "Bourne" Bond).
    It's got little to do with Hans Zimmer being a big name, even though I wish he wasn't.

    It's how monotonous his scores all are, how little subtlety, nuance, depth, thought or feeling there really is in work. Everything's in the foreground, and spelled out for you. In my holding, Hans is just a hack with a lot of expensive toys, and industrious professionals (with likely more musical expertise than himself) working for him, round the clock.

    Some consider treating an 80 piece orchestra like one big synthesiser, and have every play the same note, as loud as they feasibly can in the most basic subdivided 4/4 pulse, and then have that injected with steroids - grit. I don't.

    If you want to write for an orchestra, you've got know how to use it first.

    And lastly, the most regrettable thing about Zimmer's career, is the creation of Media Ventures/Remote Control Productions. Through that factory method approach to churning out not only his own scores, but other young composers created in his mold, he's managed to conquer, and effectively homogenise the industry.

    It'll take a lot time for it to recover.







  • HASEROTHASEROT has returned like the tedious inevitability of an unloved season---
    Posts: 4,399
    i'm sure Arnold will be asked at some point - hell, they don't even have a finished script yet (or so it seems).. scoring is usually the very last thing done to a film - so why bring him on board at this point when they haven't even begun formal casting..

    I don't mind Arnold at all - between TND and DAD he was getting very stale... but each of those soundtracks had their standouts - like:

    "Paris and Bond" from Tomorrow Never Dies
    "Elektra's theme" from The World Is Not Enough
    "Welcome to Cuba" from Die Another Day

    Day Another Day, for my own personal tastes is by far his laziest effort, as it was nothing but regurgitated music from The World Is Not Enough, just dubbed up with techno flair..

    but between CR and QOS, i feel like he's taken steps forward, and has grown into a well rounded composer, and i think tracks such as..

    "Solange" from Casino Royale
    "Vesper" from Casino Royale
    "The End of an Aston Martin" from Casino Royale
    "City of Lovers" from Casino Royale

    and..

    "Time To Get Out" from Quantum Of Solace
    "Camile's Story" from Quantum Of Solace

    for me at least, they show the growth he has made as not only a Bond composer, but a film composer..

    I feel his scores have carried more of an emotional weight as of late, than merely hitting the usual Bond theme cords and moving on.. But I will be honest, Arnold's scores aren't as flashy, catchy and legendary like Barry's - but few can top a legend, and if there is one thing I don't want to see, is someone doing a score, to merely imitate Barry's sound - because then that person, IMO, is just trying to be a clone, rather than be their own artist..

    i would like to see Arnold continue on, but if he doesn't, or isn't brought back - oh well, guess then we'll have another change to look forward to..
  • quantumofsolacequantumofsolace England
    Posts: 279
    True, David Arnold is no John Barry - but neither is/was John Williams, Jerry Goldsmith, Ennio Morricone, Bernard Herrmann, Miklos Rozsa... Comparing anybody to John Barry is pointless. He was, is and forever will be quite simply the greatest composer the world has ever known.

    I'll be the first to admit I don't think much of DA's Brosnan scores - but given the unspeakable awfulness of those wretched films it's hardly surprising that he found himself somewhat uninspired. With CR and QOS his Bond scoring has, in my opinion, improved dramatically and I for one shall be more than happy for him to score 'Bond 23'.

    As for the notion of Mr. Wilson and Ms. Broccoli opting for a different composer for the next film... um... why would they? David has been the 007 composer laureate since 1997 - what reason could there be for a change now? Surely if they were going to take the series in a new musical direction they would have done so when they (thankfully) took the series in a new cinematic direction with the arrival of Daniel. I think the decision to keep David on board at that juncture speaks volumes about how much they value his contribution.

    And with the colossal commercial and artistic success of CR and QOS, changing any aspect of this winning formula at this stage would be an unlikely move. Hey, if it ain't broke - don't fix it!

    Plus, there's always been a "family business" element to the making of the Bond films, with the producers displaying great loyalty to their team.

    So, while there are no certainties in life, I honestly can't imagine that we'll see another composer's name gracing the opening titles of 'Bond 23'.

    Besides, who on earth would they get instead? That woeful hack Zimmer or one of his bland clones? Ugh! Perish the thought!

    David Arnold Will Return. (I reckon!)
  • Posts: 638
    Quoting quantumofsolace: As for the notion of Mr. Wilson and Ms. Broccoli opting for a different composer for the next film... um... why would they?
    One reason could be that is commitment to the 2012 Olympics could keep him rather busy. The other could be that the director, Sam Mendes, may want to bring someone different in.
  • St_GeorgeSt_George Shuttling Drax's lovelies to the space doughnut - happy 40th, MR!
    Posts: 1,699
    @jaguar007 Your point about the Olympics could well prove prescient, matey; I wouldn't be surprised...
  • SharkShark Banned
    Posts: 348
    Quoting quantumofsolace:
    And with the colossal commercial and artistic success of CR and QOS, changing any aspect of this winning formula at this stage would be an unlikely move. Hey, if it ain't broke - don't fix it!
    That's assuming David Arnold is part of CR and QOS's 'winning formula.' I doubt that. His scores for those two films hasn't been a hinderence either, just there. Not particularly good or bad.
    Quoting quantumofsolace:
    Plus, there's always been a "family business" element to the making of the Bond films, with the producers displaying great loyalty to their team.
    Did that extend to Daniel Kleinman? By 2008 he'd worked for EON for 8 years, while they let Forster bring his own graphic design & animation team with him, leaving Kleinman out of the picture.
    Quoting quantumofsolace:
    I'll be the first to admit I don't think much of DA's Brosnan scores - but given the unspeakable awfulness of those wretched films it's hardly surprising that he found himself somewhat uninspired. With CR and QOS his Bond scoring has, in my opinion, improved dramatically and I for one shall be more than happy for him to score 'Bond 23'.
    Well, that's where we differ. I think QOS is a moderate improvement over CR and the Brosnan scores, but nowhere near enough to hire him for Bond 23. There's still far too much ambient filler, that could taken from any Hollywood blockbuster over the last 15 years. Too much bland underscore.
    Quoting quantumofsolace:
    Besides, who on earth would they get instead? That woeful hack Zimmer or one of his bland clones? Ugh! Perish the thought!
    Elliot Goldenthal, Don Davis, Lalo Schifrin, Dave Grusin, Howard Shore, Angelo Badalamenti etc...
  • quantumofsolacequantumofsolace England
    Posts: 279
    Whilst they're all fine composers (except Don Davis), Mr. Shark, I wouldn't say that any of them would be particularly suitable for double-oh duties. Even the greatest composer on the planet (now that JB is sadly no longer with us), John Williams, couldn't score a Bond film. He'd write a tremendous score... just not a "Bond" score.

    If I were to put forward a name (on the clear understanding that I'd prefer DA to score 'Bond 23') it would be that of up and coming British composer Samuel Sim whose shamelessly Barryesque scores for the ITV1 documentary series 'The Secret Caribbean' and 'The Secret Mediterranean' are absolutely superb.

    As for Jag's comment about Mr. A's commitment to the 2012 Olympics, David did say that he was extremely busy on that project at the moment when I had the good fortune to speak to him the other night - but surely he'll have to have finished working on that long before the event takes place next summer, leaving him (presumably) more than enough time to get back in the 007 saddle.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,723
    If Arnold does B23, he will match Barry as the longest run of scores done by a single composer.
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    Posts: 13,356
    And you can bet he'll be back again to set a new record. Arnold could even match or beat Barry's record of 11 films...
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited April 2011 Posts: 15,723
    Quoting Samuel001: Arnold could even match or beat Barry's record of 11 films...
    Which means he'd have to score every film until 2024, assuming Bond 24-Bond 29 are released every 2 years.
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    Posts: 13,356
    And Arnold would only be 62, so it's very possible. I'd be prepared for it to happen...
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,723
    So he'd have scored every Craig outing, and nearly all the films of Bond #7.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,257
    Did I read Hans Zimmer in this thread? Really? @-)

    Clearly we don't want that man anywhere near a Bond, do we? Either he changes his style and MO completely or I'll happily stick to Arnold thank you very much.
  • St_GeorgeSt_George Shuttling Drax's lovelies to the space doughnut - happy 40th, MR!
    edited April 2011 Posts: 1,699
    Quoting quantumofsolace: If I were to put forward a name (on the clear understanding that I'd prefer DA to score 'Bond 23') it would be that of up and coming British composer Samuel Sim whose shamelessly Barryesque scores for the ITV1 documentary series 'The Secret Caribbean' and 'The Secret Mediterranean' are absolutely superb.
    I've seen episodes of both those series - lush, Bond-esque music, indeed. In fact, I must admit I assumed they'd been lifted them from one (or more) of Arnold's Bond scores... :p
  • SharkShark Banned
    Posts: 348
    Quoting quantumofsolace:




    Whilst they're all fine composers (except Don Davis)
    There's nothing wrong with Don Davis. He's a fine film and concert composer.
    Quoting quantumofsolace: Even the greatest composer on the planet (now that JB is sadly no longer with us), John Williams, couldn't score a Bond film. He'd write a tremendous score... just not a "Bond" score.
    I don't want a "Bond score" (whatever that means), just a good score - period. Since Arnold we've had enough half-arsed pastiches.

    We need a new composer, to stamp his unique sound on this franchise. Not pay a toll fee to the past.
    Quoting quantumofsolace:
    If I were to put forward a name (on the clear understanding that I'd prefer DA to score 'Bond 23') it would be that of up and coming British composer Samuel Sim whose shamelessly Barryesque scores for the ITV1 documentary series 'The Secret Caribbean' and 'The Secret Mediterranean' are absolutely superb.
    They're shameless Arnoldesque, which is even worse. Secondhand dilution of what was once fresh.

    Besides from a few lame attempts to update the old sound with electronic beats, there's not much going on musically, or dramatically with Samuel Sim's scores.
  • quantumofsolacequantumofsolace England
    Posts: 279
    Hmm. Somehow I don’t envisage you and I seeing eye to eye on this topic anytime soon, Sharkey. Ah well - if we didn’t all have differing opinions about the wonderful world of 007 it would make for a rather dull forum, wouldn’t it!

    So...

    By a “Bond score” I simply mean a score suitable for a Bond film. Now whilst we all obviously crave a “good score”, that in itself isn’t enough where Bond is concerned. Look at NSNA. (Yes, I know it’s not technically a Bond film – but it tried to be one). What’s the chief criticism levelled at Michel Legrand’s score? That it’s a bad score? Certainly not. In fact it’s a very good score – and I defy anyone to say that Mr. Legrand isn’t one of the cinemas most gifted composers. The problem with his score is that it just isn’t, for want of a better term, “Bondian”. And what makes a score “Bondian”? Well, being by or in the style of John Barry pretty much hits the nail on the head. He created the definitive “Bond sound” – and it’s now as much a part of the 007 formula as guns, girls, fast cars and vodka martinis. People expect, nay demand, that Bond films look and sound a particular way, that they contain certain crucial ingredients.

    Of course, just because there’s a 007 formula doesn’t necessarily mean that 007 films have to be formulaic. The spectacular gulf between the “Carry On Up The Secret Service” nonsense of the Brosnan era and the deadly serious outlook adopted when Daniel came along to save our hero from such ignominy proves this in spades.

    Nevertheless, any composer attempting to follow in JB’s immortal footsteps must be willing to “tip his trilby” to The Guv’nor whilst hopefully bringing something of his (or her – hey, it could happen!) own artistic identity to proceedings. To my mind, the only composer who failed to do this and created something unconnected to 007’s musical heritage was Eric Serra with ‘Goldeneye’ – and what an unmitigated disaster that was!

    But not everyone, no matter how talented, can “do a Barry”. Look at Michael Kamen. When Mr. B proved unavailable for LTK hiring Michael Kamen must have seemed a real no-brainer for the producers: one of the hottest talents in Hollywood, the go-to guy for action-packed thrillers, a successful songwriter, a sideline in scoring small British films... And yet he simply couldn’t bring the lightness of touch to the film that JB could do so effortlessly. His leaden, bombastic score was like a millstone round the neck of what was already a dull, plodding film. I’m not saying that JB would have turned it into another TLD anymore than his valiant efforts were able to save ‘Howard The Duck’ from transforming into ‘Howard The Turkey’ – but that he would have vastly improved it is beyond question.

    So a composer who can to some degree write Barryesque music, hopefully without just lazily aping the great man, is, in my opinion, always going to be a must for the series.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited April 2011 Posts: 15,723
    Serra's GE score is much more Barry-esque than any Arnold soundtrack, in the sense that he made the most unique score in the franchise. Whenever you hear a track from GE, you know it's from that one. Just like you know which movie that Barry track comes from, as his music was always fresh. Serra should have returned. He wouldn't have done a GE-part 2, as he knew his '95 score had to remain unique, so we would never have had the monotony of Arnold.
  • I don' have the hatred for David Arnold that many around here seem to. I actually have really enjoyed all his scores, but I do think it's time for a breath of fresh air, Arnold does have a bad habit of rehashing old work. My pick, which I've seen a few folk around here say, is Michael Giancchino. I would love to hear a more orchestral sound with some jazz influences in there... and just bring the bond theme back please.
  • Posts: 2,107
    I'm okay with DA. DA is modern composer for modern Bond. The sound fits the mood of the new films.
    But that's only my opinion. If not available or hired by the Bond folk, they should give Morricone a try.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,257
    Quoting SharkBait: they should give Morricone a try.
    I'm not sure an 82 year old has enough energy left for the task of scoring a Bond film.
  • HASEROTHASEROT has returned like the tedious inevitability of an unloved season---
    Posts: 4,399
    Quoting DarthDimi: I'm not sure an 82 year old has enough energy left for the task of scoring a Bond film.
    Why not?? Wasnt that how old Rog was in A View To A Kill?? ;-)
  • SharkShark Banned
    edited April 2011 Posts: 348
    Quoting quantumofsolace: What’s the chief criticism levelled at Michel Legrand’s score? That it’s a bad score?
    Yeah, it's a bad score. Or a least a disappointing one. Michel Legrand was indeed a fine composer in his prime, but lost his spark around that period in the late 70s and 80s. I don't know why. It happens to some, as Draco would say.
    Quoting quantumofsolace: . To my mind, the only composer who failed to do this and created something unconnected to 007’s musical heritage was Eric Serra with ‘Goldeneye’ – and what an unmitigated disaster that was!
    Uh, are we still stuck in 1997? Don't be so reactionary, for Christ's sake. Open your mind.

    It was *not* an unmitigated disaster, by any means. It served the film perfectly, providing all of dramatic needs, whether it was creating a longing, tender love theme for Natayla that well and truly "got" Barry, far more than Arnold has ever had - or on the other hand creating one of the most daring soundscapes in any Bond film, with the harsh metallic ambiance for Soviet and Federal Russia. It took the Bond score in a fresh and compelling direction, that makes Arnold's work look positively timid and middle of the road. Frighted of sounding too contemporary, and yet not wanting sound too old fashioned. He's a created a Catch-22 for himself, a loophole that he can't get out of.

    The truth is that fans weren't ready for it. They didn't understand it, and couldn't place it within the library of Bond scores. Only now is it beginning get the appreciation it deserves.

    Though I agree with you on your conclusion on Kamen's LTK. Though I'd probably rank it much lower than GE, or even Norman's DN.


  • My thoughts haven't changed regarding David Arnold's return. I hope he isn't asked back. We need a new sound for the 50th anniversary and Bond 23.
  • Posts: 130
    Has anyone mentioned Thomas Newman? I read about a lot of names, but wonder who would actually be realistic. Sam Mendes has worked with Newman for all his films (save one).
    Here is some of his work:





    Oh and I hope I did everything right, I'm new here but have been following the old forums since CR. B-)
  • edited April 2011 Posts: 103
    if Thomas Newman scored it my brain would explode in awesomeness.
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    Posts: 13,999
    It's about time they got someone new in (but I don't have a clue who to suggest, i'd just like to hear someone else put their stamp on the series). Arnold put forward some very good work in TND, but since then, his scores have, at best, sounded far too similar.
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