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The Score of Skyfall

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  • LudsLuds MIA
    Posts: 1,986
    Anybody but DA would be fine.
    DItto, he's gutted the scores enough with his bland techno bull, we need someone who can inject a soul back into the scores.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited August 2011 Posts: 15,723
    Yes, they should ask Eric Serra back. He is simply fantastic.
  • Monsieur_AubergineMonsieur_Aubergine Top of the Eiffel Tower with a fly in my soup!
    edited August 2011 Posts: 642
    David Arnold was interviewed last week at BBC Proms Film Night and he described the fact that when writing today, most films give no room for the music to breath.
    "The sweeping melodies are very hard to shoehorn in"...he likened the scenario to "John Barry writing the epic pieces" where as he has had to live "with the 'diet Pepsi, 5 a day' culture" that wants it fast and loose...It's not just Arnolds decision.
    Im inclined to side with him and say, give him a director or editor who understands the importance of the score as much he does/wishes to convey.
    Arnold knows the Bond sound, the way Barry wrote. In many ways Barry got him the job in the first place (not just personal approval but also Arnolds ear for the style)
    I need only point to the magnificant memorial concert he produced for the great man in June.
    Give Arnold one more chance to prove his worth and especially so for the 50th Anniversary. I'm sure, having met and discussed this case with him, that his passion for the piece is just as great as ours. But i quite agree, time for change soon but lets not level all the blame at his door. The movie business is driven by many and if you remember, Saltzman hadn't a clue about music either maybe BB and MGW need to just let Mendes and Arnold deliver! I live in hope. :-)

    Right deep breath...

    I've selcted a few good tracks from each film, do these not show he can deliver?

    TND
    White Knight - a great 8 minutes of storytelling, nicely weaving Bond in and out along with the great high brass motifs
    Company Car - Classic bond - Jazzy, smooth and fun
    Bike Chase - Highly percussive but in keeping with location and full of Bond theme bites
    Kowloon Bay - Sweeping and beutiful
    Surrender - EPIC!

    TWINE
    Come In 007, Your Time Is Up - The elctro kicks in a little too much but its finale is brill
    Access Denied - spooky and mysterious
    M's Confession - respectful and measured
    Welcome To Baku - just sublime great natascha atlas vocal too, gorgeous.
    Casino - pure OHMSS for the 90's ('Try')
    Elektra's Theme - ditto
    Body Double - movie music to dump bodies by - love it.

    DAD
    On The Beach - this track would have been a lot better if the cd contained the surfing cue
    Some Kind Of Hero? - very fitting to the location and builds nicely
    Welcome To Cuba - extremely accomplished orhestration and v. well produced
    Jinx Jordan - sweeping
    Jinx & James - just so

    CR
    You know my name - Rock, Brass, Bond Theme sitting cheekily in there too.
    LIcense 2 Kills - atmosphere and action (as per the movie itself) nicely written
    Miami International - a brilliant 12 minutes or so of story telling, when that plane is coming into land I feel the music really sells the drama - great stuff.
    City Of Lovers - Venice, Barryesque, emotional , gorgeous

    QOS
    Time To Get Out - listen to this on earphones and tell me it isn't fantastic
    Bond In Haiti - again, Arnold can do that 'Barry thing' by enovking the locale
    Pursuit At Port Au Prince - ok so its frantic, loud and assaults you like Craig in a boat.. but listen for epic thunderball references and that beautiful end to the track
    Night At The Opera - Spy music for the naughties
    Restrict Bond's Movement - nice mix of urgency and cool
    What's Keeping You Awake - gentle and thoughful
    Forgive Yourself - ditto
    Camille's Story -ditto
    Oil Fields - I listen to this when getting into the office at work and trying to avoid the boss, great piece of Bond fayre.

    Sorry if I just bored you beyond belief, but I just think it's worth remembering some highlights, before giving him up as a completely bad job. :-)
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,257
    someone please explain these lyrics to me:

    JW: Another ringer with the slick trigger finger for Her Majesty
    AK: Another one with the golden tone voice and then your fantasy
    JW: Another bill from a killer turned a thrill into a tragedy

    CHORUS:
    A door left open
    A woman walking by
    A drop in the water
    A look in the eye
    A phone on the table
    A man on your side
    Someone that you think that you can trust is just
    Another way to die

    JW: Another tricky little gun giving solace to the one that will never see the sunshine
    AK: Another inch of your life sacrificed for your brother in the nick of time
    JW: Another dirty money, heaven sent honey turning on a dime
    I agree these lyrics are nonsensical from start to finish. And as many have pointed out, good lyrics were more than once one of the weaker links in a Bond film.

  • Monsieur_AubergineMonsieur_Aubergine Top of the Eiffel Tower with a fly in my soup!
    Posts: 642
    Another inch of your life sacrificed for your brother in the nick of time - meaning his relationship with Felix (his brother from Langley). Bond exits the bar before all the special forces move in thanks to Felix tipping him off??

    Another dirty money, heaven sent honey, turning on a dime - Vesper and the trust issues he has??

    I am surmising, I think they are going some way to explain Bond at the point we are meeting him in QOS. @shadowonthesun gave a good explanation a few posts back I think. :-)
  • lecherolechero
    Posts: 161
    David Arnold is average. He doesn't detract from the film, but he doesn't elevate it either. New blood is required. I want Clint Mansell.
  • SaintMarkSaintMark
    Posts: 7,653
    Anybody liking DA should listen to the really great era of 007 when the soundtracks were simply done by men with skill who delivered timeless music and themes. From the DA era most is easily forgotten when comparing to the earlier work.
    I would like to see an actual composer at work for a change who does have the ability to comeup with new epic stuff. The opportunity that DA got with giving 007 a facelift musicwise in the "new direction" of the 007 series he really created two average soundtracks with some nice moments but overall really forgetable. And that is not the way the music used to be of the 007 series. They really made the effort to bring in great composers which sadly they (EON) seem to find a waste of good money.
  • DoctorKaufmannDoctorKaufmann Can shoot you from Stuttgart and still make it look like suicide.
    Posts: 1,261
    Quoting St_George:
    Quoting forgotmyusername: I say bring back the super-fly funkmaster brother George Martin one more time.

    Hamlisch and Conti are still available. Though the former's score for THE INFORMANT wasn't too impressive, Conti isn't doing much in the way of commissions (according to the internet, at least).
    Hamlish with his funky disco music (IMHO the worst thing in TSWLM) and the 1980's dico pop score for FYEO? Please not... Oh, and I don't like all te Rocky movies and also don't like Conti's score. We migh argue about Arnold's work, but then bring on some composers, who were famous about 30 years ago, does not make much sense. I did not fancy Giacchino's MI:3 score (then, yet again, I did not fancy MI:2 and MI:3), but his work on Star Trek was quite good. But unless Babs and Mike do hire somebody else, we will see whether Arnold returns or not. But as of yet filming has not begun, we will wait and see...
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited August 2011 Posts: 15,723

    Im inclined to side with him and say, give him a director or editor who understands the importance of the score as much he does/wishes to convey.
    Give Arnold one more chance to prove his worth and especially so for the 50th
    Sorry Monsieur_Aubergine, but that isn't the solution. Arnold has very limited musical skills and knowledge. The right solution would be for Arnold to quit making sountracks for the next few years, and try to acquire some musical skills. Maybe he should attend a musical school, which he has never done. It is beyond comprehension how a composer that finally showed some knowledge of stylistic musical devices near the age of 50 is still in the music business. Arnold should start by learning A LOT before composing again. If he continues to learn at the rate he's done since the mid 1990's, he will never be a skillful composer before the end of his career. So please Mr. Arnold, attend some music classes before composing again !
  • boldfingerboldfinger
    edited August 2011 Posts: 5,767
    David Arnold was interviewed last week at BBC Proms Film Night and he described the fact that when writing today, most films give no room for the music to breath.
    "The sweeping melodies are very hard to shoehorn in"...he likened the scenario to "John Barry writing the epic pieces" where as he has had to live "with the 'diet Pepsi, 5 a day' culture" that wants it fast and loose...It's not just Arnolds decision.
    Im inclined to side with him and say, give him a director or editor who understands the importance of the score as much he does/wishes to convey.
    Arnold knows the Bond sound, the way Barry wrote. In many ways Barry got him the job in the first place (not just personal approval but also Arnolds ear for the style)
    I need only point to the magnificant memorial concert he produced for the great man in June.
    Give Arnold one more chance to prove his worth and especially so for the 50th Anniversary. I'm sure, having met and discussed this case with him, that his passion for the piece is just as great as ours. But i quite agree, time for change soon but lets not level all the blame at his door. The movie business is driven by many and if you remember, Saltzman hadn't a clue about music either maybe BB and MGW need to just let Mendes and Arnold deliver! I live in hope. :-)
    I seem to be one of the few who appreciate Arnold´s Bond scores. But I wouldn´t say he really knows how Barry wrote. He knows elements of it, but doesn´t know or doesn´t care for certain other elements.
    Arnold´s score for Last of the Dogmen is a prime example for very Barry-esque melodies with a completely un-Barry-esque rhythmic approach. Where Barry´s music flows like a live river, or flies around like a free bird, Last of the Dogmen´s music is solidly built into a 4/4 scheme that feels a bit like a bird in a cage, even though that particular score doesn´t use any electronic rhythm devices.
    Hence, IMO Arnold works best when he uses techno or when he works with rock rhythms. Sure, he has the occasional sweeping romantic beauty flowing over the place, but those are comparatively rare moments. And I don´t buy it that the films force him to do it that way. I actually don´t have a problem with many of his filler tunes, e.g. the scene in CR when Bond sneaks into the security office to check the video whith the Aston arriving at the hotel. But Arnold can´t tell me that a more classic-oriented approach wouldn´t have worked or wouldn´t have been accepted by the producers.
    Same with the action scenes. I repeat, I like Arnold´s action pieces. But by the time he scored DAD he should have learned that such a complex tune as the one he produced for the hovercraft chase would never be featured in the film in a way that the tune is clearly audible. And when a tune in an action scene is only audible in the background, what better choice is there, modern or old school, to make the tune relatively simple, so that even from the background it unravels an emotional message. I wouldn´t mind hearing that track louder during that scene, but didn´t the previous films make a point of cruel editing choices in that regard?
    And here it shows clearly that Arnold is not completely on the right track when he says the films demand such scores. If they do, then why are his Bond tunes edited so cruelly so often?

    Arnold has very limited musical skills and knowledge.
    He has loads of musical knowledge, just not too much of those that made out John Barry.
    It is beyond comprehension how a composer that finally showed some knowledge of stylistic musical devices near the age of 50 is still in the music business. Arnold should start by learning A LOT before composing again. If he continues to learn at the rate he's done since the mid 1990's, he will never be a skillful composer before the end of his career. So please Mr. Arnold, attend some music classes before composing again !
    He probably would if nobody gave him a job. But he seems to live from his job in the music business. Much as Hans Zimmer ;-) . Not that I want to compare those two beyong this point.

    Anybody liking DA should listen to the really great era of 007 when the soundtracks were simply done by men with skill who delivered timeless music and themes. From the DA era most is easily forgotten when comparing to the earlier work.
    That sounds like a rather poor suggestion to me. I adore what Barry did for Bond, I find many of his other scores deadly boring, and I thorroughly enjoy Arnold´s Bond scores. The scores from the DA era are hardly "easily forgotten" when comparing to the earlier work, they are just something completely different.
  • Monsieur_AubergineMonsieur_Aubergine Top of the Eiffel Tower with a fly in my soup!
    Posts: 642
    I don't like everything he does, I also agree it is time to change..

    John Barry did it best and this will never be replaced or carbon copied, at least Arnold respects the franchise, the legacy and that is really the point i'm trying to make here. We all seem to be hankering for a past era of scoring (rightly so), movies have changed (certainly action movies) and pop culture has changed dramatically too.

    I remember in another thread @DaltonCraig007 quite rightly said that we will never see the likes of a stirring instrumental main theme again as it is just not commercially viable..a producers decision (not a composers and not for the want of trying).

    Can you really blame DA for trying to bring the scores into the next century, let alone decade and when coupled with directorial and editing matters to make the FILM (not the CD) appealing I would acknowledge that its not as easy as it appears to be.

    and yes this has happened for years..
    eg. When Connery walks around his room in FRWL checking for bugs the JB Theme is played over it in its entirety. John Barry commented "I would never have scored it like that at all"

    At least he doesn't use synths as an substitute for an orchestra (Zimmer, Gregson williams etc) and uses creative tech rhythms to at least make the orchestral sound that little more relative to the current climate.

    Let's not knock a man for trying though if we are to deduce that he is not worthy of the job.

    I implore both him and Mendes and Anwar to make this one special (should he be doing it) and by special, I mean evoking that era on which we all concur.

    What I really want to see though is that 'Spielberg/ Williams' relationship applied to Bond, by that I don't mean them literally, but in their way of working, where director and composer tell the story first and foremost.

    :-) One day guys, one day.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited August 2011 Posts: 15,723
    Arnold has very limited musical skills and knowledge.
    He has loads of musical knowledge, just not too much of those that made out John Barry
    Then why are his scores nearly devoid of any stylistic musical devices ? TND, TWINE, DAD and CR are extremely, extremely poor scores, musically speaking. It's only for QOS, near the age of 50, that Arnold finally displayed some knowledge of musical complexity.

    You can argue all you want, bolfinger, it doesn't change the fact that Arnold shows very limited musical complexity. If you look at Arnold's scores, and knowing that he never attended any musical school, it is clearly evident he is either seriously lacking in musical skills/knowledge, or he simply isn't arsed to compose good music.
  • boldfingerboldfinger
    Posts: 5,767
    Then why are his scores nearly devoid of any stylistic musical devices ? TND, TWINE, DAD and CR are extremely, extremely poor scores, musically speaking. It's only for QOS, near the age of 50, that Arnold finally displayed some knowledge of musical complexity.

    You can argue all you want, bolfinger, it doesn't change the fact that Arnold shows very limited musical complexity. If you look at Arnold's scores, and knowing that he never attended any musical school, it is clearly evident he is either seriously lacking in musical skills/knowledge, or he simply isn't arsed to compose good music.
    "Musical complexity" is a rather academic term. I´d argue that Arnold´s combination of techno and orchestra is complex in a way. As are many of his cues in general: Not repeating a theme, on the contrary displaying unendless melodic ideas within one 8min track is a form of complexity.
    I absolutely agree that Arnold doesn´t display the complexity in melody, mood, arrangement etc that certain old schoolers such as Barry, Williams or Goldsmith did. He doesn´t display an inkling of that. He´s a pop producer and musician, and as such he has proven with his works that he indeed has musical knowledge. He certainly doesn´t show any kind of classical training. His musical devices, and I dare to call it that, are recording and production tools.
    Again, I agree that, even though he brings loads of melodies to his scores, he shows almost no knowledge to make them bloom, be it by repeating variations, or working on a melody until it really has got depth. He seems to be a great talent who could benefit enormously from classical music education.
    Still, his Bond score so far have been a lot of fun.
    I implore both him and Mendes and Anwar to make this one special (should he be doing it) and by special, I mean evoking that era on which we all concur.
    Arnold himself has shown repeatedly that we cannot expect that from him. He repeatedly said words to the effect that Barry is his orientation mark, yet he did what he did.

    Lucky me that I am happy with his scores :p .
  • JamesPageJamesPage Administrator, Moderator, Director
    Posts: 1,380
    Great post @shadowonthesun

    For all the critics of AWTD... It sure is no TMWTGG
    Who will he bang? Weeee shalllll seeeeeee
  • SirHenryLeeChaChingSirHenryLeeChaChing
    edited August 2011 Posts: 3,494
    @ aubergine- Very nice highlights of Arnold's work. Far from boring and Arnold has been far from doing a bad job with the films. Great musical moments in TND and CR in regards to the theme songs he wrote and his use of them within the movies, and his romantic themes are very Barryesque in terms of melodical content and capturing some of what Barry did. Too many people take Arnold to task in comparison to Barry, when the fact is no one compares even remotely. I give Arnold his due for recognizing the "Bond Sound" and giving us some semblance of that as opposed to disco, Rocky, and bad French film music. No one who criticizes Arnold has ever done anything in the way of published music and accomplishments in the way of fame and record sales that has ever amounted to a hill of beans. Prove you can do better and when EON hires you, then your opinion may count for more than hot air.

    @ Herr Doktor Kaufmann- great post! I can find some good moments in these films, timeless title songs and good use of them. But neither brought anything new to the legacy, just like TSWLM and MR the respective composers took the easy way out and tried to capitalize on then current and generally horrid musical trends that added little to the Bond sound.

    @ Boldfinger- your last post was dead on and the best description of what Arnold does and does not bring to the table. Should they bring in another composer? Only if they recognize the Bond sound and if they can take it farther then I'd welcome it. As long as it ISN'T Eric Serra . I will throw up in the theater and leave if his name ever rolls across the opening credits of a new Bond movie ever again. French film music is total crap and no French composer I've ever heard belongs anywhere near a Bond film. Horrible, nasty stuff in GE that makes the film very un-Bondian. Save your money people, the title song is the only thing any good. Serra should stick to writing for Luc Besson. If I were EON, I wouldn't have hired him back even if he offered to do it for free.
  • shadowonthesunshadowonthesun Banned
    edited August 2011 Posts: 1,894
    JW: Another ringer with the slick trigger finger for Her Majesty
    AK: Another one with the golden tone voice and then your fantasy
    JW: Another bill from a killer turned a thrill into a tragedy
    I've done that one already.
    A door left open
    A woman walking by
    A drop in the water
    A look in the eye
    A phone on the table
    A man on your side
    Someone that you think that you can trust is just
    Another way to die
    It's a scene of normality, like in a bar or restaurant. But there's something going on - things like the door being left open are out of place. All these tiny little cues are building up to an assassiantion attempt. Missing just one of them could be fatal, hence it being "another way to die".
    Another tricky little gun giving solace to the one that will never see the sunshine
    It's Bond. The "tricky little gun" is his mission. "Giving solace" is getting that measure of comfort. And "the one that will never see the sun shine" means that the person - Bond - will never really get satisfaction or happiness doing what he does.
    Another inch of your life sacrificed for your brother in the nick of time
    Another clear reference to Vesper. "Inch of your life sacrificed" is Bond giving up a part of his soul when he kills people, mirroring Vesper's feelings about his chosen profession. "For your brother" means countrymen - Bond does what he does for the sake of his country. And "in the nick of time" is fairly straightforward; it refers to getting the job done just in tie to avert a major catastrophe.
    Another dirty money, heaven sent honey turning on a dime
    "Dirty money" is corruption. "Heaven-sent honey" is a woman; together, it's talking abouta treacherous woman. And "turning on a dime" refers to the ease at getting someone's loyalty on your side.

    So, re-writing the entire song with straightforward lyrics:
    Another trained killer for queen and country
    His seduction will taint your dreams
    On another mission that ended badly

    Sitting in a bar, getting the sense that something is wrong
    All these things out of place and just one could kill

    It's a difficult life, with no promise of happiness
    Giving up your soul for the sake of your brothers
    A treacherous vixen's loyalty is cheap

    Sitting in a bar, getting the sense that something is wrong
    All these things out of place and just one could kill

    Finding a woman who can whisper sweet nothings
    Finding an enemy who surrenders takes away the fear of death
    Finding another side to yourself, silent but ever-present

    Sitting in a bar, getting the sense that something is wrong
    All these things out of place and just one could kill
    Something like that.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited August 2011 Posts: 15,723
    I never understood the unfounded hate for Serra's GE score. It is amazingly beautiful, complex score. One of the best of the entire series. You may not like it, but it is very good music indeed. It's very close to Barry. And Serra's naysayers should listen to his more recent work, like 'Adele Blanc Sec' - a much more classical, romantic score... which almost puts John Barry to shame. I just hate it when people just disregard and hate something, when it is factually a very, very good object (or soundtrack, in this case)... Sometimes I wonder if some people have some musical knowledge, if any. Yes, you can't compare Arnold to Barry, since Arnold has nowhere near the same classical training... But Serra CAN be compare to Barry, just for the greatness of their Bond and non-Bond scores. It would be fantastic if Serra returned, as he'd be the first extremely talented and versatile composer to score a Bond film in years. It seems we have a very own DCNB version here, only it's 'SNFB' (SerraNotForBond)... Another sad, obsessed group of people. I don't know which of these 2 groups is the most sad to see. I hope they will soon see how wrong they are. It's beyond my comprehension how some people would prefer a 6th mediocre score in a row, when the composer who made the much, much better GE score could return, and make the quality rise a great deal. These people just settle for mediocrity...



  • Monsieur_AubergineMonsieur_Aubergine Top of the Eiffel Tower with a fly in my soup!
    edited August 2011 Posts: 642
    Before I go any further I am certainly not a SNFB member and i'm not quite sure the "..sad, obsessed group of people." comment was entirely called for. I am no stranger to this mistake in calling others out and I think we must start respecting and politely challenging things a little more instead of bulldozing opinion..nothing personal @DaltonCraig007, it happens frequently across lots of threads. Let's try to understand why we think what we do and look for cogent argument...we are all here with a common interest. Let's enjoy it.

    (Right Aubergine get on with it!),

    Serra does produce a quality product for Goldeneye but if we are to blame Arnold for what I can only really boil down to inconsistency (based on past comments) then Serra is equally as guilty.

    The misjudged 'Ladies First' track is confused (if playful) and jarring, in fact I dont think that scene should have had a score, it should have been shortened and the throaty roar of the cars should have done the work alongside Brosnan's playful quips.
    'Pleasant drive in St. Petersburg' was completely dropped and re-scored for a more authentic Bond sound and the very synthesized Goldeneye Overture just didn't feel (to me) like real Bond. The cheap 'Goldfinger by Keyboard' references dont quite hit the spot.
    But... Serra writes very beautiful romantic themes and I love We Share the Same Passions, That's what keeps you alone etc. very accomplished, tight and JBesque. His other non bond scores are brilliant it has to be said.

    So when all is said and done I don't think we will ever see the perfect Bond score. On the other thread asking for scores out of 10 I would score them all 10 as they will always be part of the memory of that particular picture (good or bad) and they are for Bond and that is why I/we love them or should at least appreciate the effort. As you will know I am a huge advocate for Arnold but that doesn't mean to say I dislike anything else 'non-barry/arnold'

    Barry, "I looked at it and said, 'that works.' That became the Bond style. That's why there's a similarity in all the Bond songs. It's not the melody, it's an attitude"
    So maybe we shouldn't get too out of our pram about it and expect perfection from those who try. Incidentally i also think this is the reason why a lot of composers want no part of Bond. :-)

    Here's a quick article from Variety.

    http://www.variety.com/article/VR1117995119

    I have just realised I am sad...but only for the whole god damn franchise!! I love it all :-))
    Join me anyone?


  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited August 2011 Posts: 15,723
    @Monsieur_Aubergine Serra was trying to do something unique and different. GE works to perfection for that, and it's also a very, very good score, musically. So it's fair to assume, had Serra returned for TND, he would have made totally different soundtrack from GE, to preserve it's uniqueness. So instead of having a string of mediocre scores that all sound the same, we would have had a string of great and unique soundtracks. What I don't understand is why some people prefer the inferior, less talented and less versatile composer, while there was a talented composer, almost equal to Barry, that would have done a much, much better job. GE is the testimony of the great soundtracks we could have had... now we only have one great soundtrack in the last 16 years. People wanted better quality for the films after DAD... But they want to keep the mediocrity of the music... Something just doesn't add up. Either you want quality, or you want EON to keep on producing more 'Die Another Day' type films. It's just beyond my comprehension how people support Craig and not Serra... it's just contradictory. You either want quality, or you don't. Craig = Quality, Serra = Quality.

    Sorry to sound a tad rude, but I just don't understand people's reasoning. I love Craig as an actor, I just don't like his Bond in CR and QOS. Am I yelling around he should quit the role ? No - I am just saying that I hope B23 will be more classical, and then I will most likely love his Bond. The anti-Serra brigade are saying 'I don't like his score, I want him out or I will leave the theater !' They don't understand how great and Barryesque Serra is, they just didn't like his GE score so they want him out. Instead of saying 'OK, he *IS* a great composer, I just didn't like his soundtrack, so let's see what he can do for the next one, which I will be surely love if it's more classical and less bold/inovative'. They are absurd as me if I would say 'God, this bad actor Craig is horrible and un-Bond... If he shows up in the next one, I will walk away of the theater in anger !'. Please, just accept that Serra is a great composer, it's just that you didn't like what he did with GE. It is as absurd to want a quality actor as Craig to quit the role, because I didn't like his acting in CR and QOS, than to want a quality composer as Serra to quit, because you didn't like his music in GE... Both are just absurd.

    I hope I am a bit more clear in what I wanted to say, @Monsieur_Aubergine.

    @Luds Sorry, but I haven't find a more simple way to write what I wanted to say... Sorry if provocative, I just wanted to make myself understood clearly...
  • Monsieur_AubergineMonsieur_Aubergine Top of the Eiffel Tower with a fly in my soup!
    Posts: 642
    Perfectly @DaltonCraig007 This is exactly what i'm striving for. A bit more debate and reasoning instead of sweeping irrational disregard. None of us are 'right' of course, as we all have varying tastes and preferences but as this is a discussion forum, healthy debate is key to thrashing out our points of view. If we all held the same view I would lose the will to live! :-)

    No need to apologise for seeming a tad rude, it's your opinion, but it was good of you to do so mate.

    It's brilliant to see so much passion for all things Bond here let alone the music. The complexities of the franchise and it's varying elements can only ever be drilled down by those that care. Respecting each others POV (in the main) is a very noble thing from all on this forum and that's why I love it here! :-)
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,331
    I haven't read all the above posts, but I think I got the essence of it. Rather then join the conversation at such a specific level, something I think I'm not qualified to do, I'll jst give my fan's opnion.
    And that is: let someone else try. DA has done quite a few films, and though I like some of the scores, none of it seems to stand out. Even worse, many I find bland and boring, especially his work in the nineties. Sure, I have a passionate distaste for all techno music, which makes things hard, but still I think his other work just isn't impressive.
    Again, he's done some good ones too, but that just isn't enough.
    Time to give someone else a chance. We, as fans, shouldn't expect anything from a new composer, just hope for the best ;-)
  • thelordflasheartthelordflasheart
    Posts: 1,370
    The problem with Serra is that Ladies First is so mind-blowingly awful (to the point of embarrassing) and occurs so early in the film that it probably wipes out the memory of all of the good tracks from the film.

    I thought Serra had some really nice music in GE and certainly wouldn't mind if he was given another chance. In fact I'd be really looking forward to what he comes up with - he had some great cues and I thought that he captured the "core of lonliness" to Bond's character as played by Brosnan.
  • shadowonthesunshadowonthesun Banned
    Posts: 1,894
    For all the critics of AWTD... It sure is no TMWTGG
    Who will he bang? Weeee shalllll seeeeeee
    To be fair, when the title of your song is The Man with the Golden Gun, you're not given a hell of a lot to work with.
  • boldfingerboldfinger
    edited August 2011 Posts: 5,767
    For all the critics of AWTD... It sure is no TMWTGG
    Who will he bang? Weeee shalllll seeeeeee
    To be fair, when the title of your song is The Man with the Golden Gun, you're not given a hell of a lot to work with.
    AWTD was critisised for supposed lack of meaning in the lyrics (which was brilliantly refuted above by @shadowonthesun). TMWTGG´s lyrics clearly have a meaning. Wether one likes that meaning or not is up to personal taste.

    I like that song very much. It represents a rather weird sense of humor which reflects the mood of the film very well in way.
    ´No need to fear
    James Bond is heeeah!´
    Yeah!
  • shadowonthesunshadowonthesun Banned
    Posts: 1,894
    AWTD does have meaning. You just have to think about it.
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,331
    AWTD does have meaning. You just have to think about it.
    Hell no! that would imply listening to it, and I can't stand it for more then one second!
  • boldfingerboldfinger
    Posts: 5,767
    AWTD does have meaning. You just have to think about it.
    Hell no! that would imply listening to it, and I can't stand it for more then one second!
    If you don´t like to listen to a song then there´s no need whatsoever to spend thoughts on the lyrics.

  • shadowonthesunshadowonthesun Banned
    Posts: 1,894
    If you refuse to listen to the song, then you have no cause to complain about the lyrics. That would be like someone complaining that Tom Cruise can't act despite the fact that they haven't actually seen a film with Tom Cruise in it.
  • SharkShark Banned
    edited August 2011 Posts: 348
    If you refuse to listen to the song, then you have no cause to complain about the lyrics. That would be like someone complaining that Tom Cruise can't act despite the fact that they haven't actually seen a film with Tom Cruise in it.
    Stop being so bleeding obtuse.

    boldfinger has listened to the song in the past, and doesn't like it. He didn't say he's never heard it.
  • boldfingerboldfinger
    edited August 2011 Posts: 5,767
    If you refuse to listen to the song, then you have no cause to complain about the lyrics. That would be like someone complaining that Tom Cruise can't act despite the fact that they haven't actually seen a film with Tom Cruise in it.
    Stop being so bleeding obtuse.

    boldfinger has listened to the song in the past, and doesn't like it. He didn't say he's never heard it.
    Let´s not lose focus.
    @Shark please check the posts you refer to more thorroughly before commenting.
    And let us not slip into language beneath our level.

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