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The Score of Skyfall

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  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,331
    Indeed I never complained about the lyrics of AWTD, mine was just a way of saying that the actual words are the least of the song's problems.
    But all in all we were discussing DA's place in the Bond history, not lyrics of increadably bad songs.
  • SharkShark Banned
    edited August 2011 Posts: 348
    If you refuse to listen to the song, then you have no cause to complain about the lyrics. That would be like someone complaining that Tom Cruise can't act despite the fact that they haven't actually seen a film with Tom Cruise in it.
    Stop being so bleeding obtuse.

    boldfinger has listened to the song in the past, and doesn't like it. He didn't say he's never heard it.
    Let´s not lose focus.
    I'm defending your comment from Shadow. What's the problem?
    @Shark please check the posts you refer to more thorroughly before commenting.
    And let us not slip into language beneath our level.
    @boldfinger.

    I will kindly advise you to stop impersonating moderators.

    We expect better from you.

    Regards

    - National Association for the Advancement of Sharks (NAAS)
  • shadowonthesunshadowonthesun Banned
    Posts: 1,894
    AWTD was critisised for supposed lack of meaning in the lyrics (which was brilliantly refuted above by @shadowonthesun).
    Thank you, boldfinger. I'm an English teacher, so my curse is the ability to distill meaning where there apparently isn't any.

    AWTD has meaning. It's just not obvious about it. Jack White, who wrote and arranged the song (so I have no idea what this currently has to do with David Arnold), does have a bit of a reputation as being oddball when it comes to lyrics. Most of AWTD's lyrics are arranged around the structure, and I think some of them are actually quite clever in the way they're rhymed (like "majesty", "fantasy" and "tragedy", or "sunshine", "time" and "dime"); they're right up there with some of the songs from DR. HORRIBLE'S SING-ALONG BLOG ("Stand back everyone, there's nothing here to see / Just imminent danger, and in the middle of it, me! / Yes, Captain Hammer's here, hair blowing in the breeze / The day needs my saving experitse!" or "And Penny will see the evil me / Not a joke, not a dork, not a failure / And she may cry, but her tears will dry / When I hand her the keys to a shiny new Australia.").

    In fact, I'd say that of all the Bond themes, AWTD has some of the best meaning. Most of the time, the songs are about a relationship between Bond and a woman, usually from the woman's point of view. And sometime (*cough*Madge!*cough*) they have no meaning at all. But AWTD (like YKMN before it) reflects a lot of the themes in the film - the way Bond cannot indulge in revenge and maintain his values, the way he has to be alone in what he does, and the world he has to exist in where one false move can kill.

    If there's anything wrong with the song, it's actually the film itself. I watched it last night, and while I do think it's quite solid (if nowhere near the Cold War quartet of FRWL, FYEO, TLD and CR- yes, I know CR is not set during the Cold War, but it's of the same quality as the other three), it's only about 75% done. I know Haggis takes a lot of flak for being overtly political and being indecisive on Mathis' guilt or innocence, but I do like the way he magnified Bond's arrogance as a coping mechanism for Vesper's death, and I think Craig absolutely nailed it (I think his "I never left" line is the only time he actually smiles in the entire film). There's a few nifty dialogue exchanges throughout it and the opera scene is a highlight of the entire franchise, but if the film had just taken a bit more time in places, it would be more complete - and the lyrics of AWTD would make more sense.
  • boldfingerboldfinger
    edited August 2011 Posts: 5,767
    I'm defending your comment from Shadow. What's the problem?
    Both with ´focus´ and with my request to you to check whom you are commenting I intended to lead your awareness to the fact that it was not I who had presented a contrary opinion to the one of Shadow, but CommanderRoss. I never said AWTD is a bad song or has bad lyrics, quite the contrary in fact. I just didn´t want the argumentation to get all confused. Please forgive me if I was (or still am) being tedious in trying to point that out.
    @Shark please check the posts you refer to more thorroughly before commenting.
    And let us not slip into language beneath our level.
    @boldfinger.

    I will kindly advise you to stop impersonating moderators.
    Well, thank you for the compliment, I wasn´t aware that my post had such gravitas ;-) .
    As you know by now, the first of those two sentences above is the sequel of the sentence before that. The second one is a normal request I wouldn´t even associate with anything moddy.
    AWTD was critisised for supposed lack of meaning in the lyrics (which was brilliantly refuted above by @shadowonthesun).
    Thank you, boldfinger. I'm an English teacher, so my curse is the ability to distill meaning where there apparently isn't any.
    Haha, then you should maybe analyse me some day ;-) .
    If there's anything wrong with the song, it's actually the film itself.
    I appreciate your following argumentation, but I must say I find the song and film fit to each other like a glove. What you say doesn´t show explicitly because the film doesn´t take its time to show it, I find it shows well on repeated viewings. I have a solid habit of re-watching any Bond film anyhow.

  • shadowonthesunshadowonthesun Banned
    Posts: 1,894
    Haha, then you should maybe analyse me some day ;-)
    I can only do it with texts. I'm a teacher, not a psychologist.
    I find it shows well on repeated viewings.
    There's a few changes that wouldn't hurt it. For one, the film could make it clearer that Bond is not out for revenge, but that everyone thinks he is. Two, Greene's plot could use a little bit more detail; rather than creating underground dams (which was a bit over-the-top), he should have been taking control of aquifers in the desert. And the stakes should have been raised; claiming he controlled 60% of Bolivia's water supply wasn't exactly awe-inspiring. And three, Rene Mathis' guilt or innocence should be established, as well as his role in everything (I always got the sense he was filled with this immense sadness, and was looking for a place to die). On that note, Bond's reason for dumping the body should have been elaborated upon (Bond did it to buy time by staging Mathis' death to look like a separate crime to the deaths of the police).
  • nethegaunernethegauner
    Posts: 74
    Sorry, guys---this discussion is starting to confuse me. So is Arnold in, or is he out? For what it is worth, he is my favorit Bond composer---so I would hate to see him leave the franchise.

    Uhm . . . this thread is about Bond 23 and David Arnold, right? And not about the "Another way to die lyrics", or is it?

    ;-)
  • SirHenryLeeChaChingSirHenryLeeChaChing
    edited August 2011 Posts: 3,494
    @ nethegauner- I was thinking the same exact thing, Arnold is guilty as charged of some things but had no responsibility for this song. I can't figure out why people keep associating him with it or why this topic went off course.

    If Arnold does the next soundtrack, I'm fine with it. If not, whatever as long as the person who does gives us Barry-like music and not try to get too original.
  • SharkShark Banned
    edited August 2011 Posts: 348
    So is Arnold in, or is he out? For what it is worth, he is my favorit Bond composer---so I would hate to see him leave the franchise.
    Post removed.
  • SaintMarkSaintMark
    Posts: 7,653
    S For what it is worth, he is my favorit Bond composer---so I would hate to see him leave the franchise.
    ;-)
    Just disqualified yourself from any valuable music discussion, you might like DA's doodles but they pale in comparison with the 007 composer John Barry. His music is one of the valuable assets of the franchise. To which DA only did add little more than some nice drum and base with no real new ideas of his own.

  • SirHenryLeeChaChingSirHenryLeeChaChing
    Posts: 3,494
    Seconded SaintMark. John Barry...there are only two words for his loss and body of work in all he did. Irreplaceable and immeasurable .
  • DiscoVolanteDiscoVolante Stockholm, Sweden
    edited August 2011 Posts: 1,347
    S For what it is worth, he is my favorit Bond composer---so I would hate to see him leave the franchise.
    ;-)
    Just disqualified yourself from any valuable music discussion, you might like DA's doodles but they pale in comparison with the 007 composer John Barry. His music is one of the valuable assets of the franchise. To which DA only did add little more than some nice drum and base with no real new ideas of his own.

    @nethegauner doesn't disqualify himself from any discussion for having opinions that differ from yours.


  • shadowonthesunshadowonthesun Banned
    Posts: 1,894
    Yes, it's a distrubing trend I've noticed of late - "if you don't think like us, then you don't deserve to have an opinion".
  • forgotmyusernameforgotmyusername
    Posts: 2,782
    So is Arnold in, or is he out? For what it is worth, he is my favorit Bond composer---so I would hate to see him leave the franchise.
    Post removed.

    What did you say?

    I reckon it went something like this:

    David Arnold is a bleeping bleep deaf bleeping bleep who doesn't know the difference between a bleeping trumpet and a bleeping guitar whilst its stuck up his big hairy bleep. He's a talentless bleeping bleep who has wasted bleeping opportunity after bleeping opportunity. His ears must be filled with bleep because that's all he bleeping produces the bleeping bleep overrated bleeping mother bleeper.


  • GeorgeLazenbyGeorgeLazenby
    Posts: 295
    Forget Arnold-- they should ask Henry Jackman...or Trend Reznor.
  • LudsLuds MIA
    Posts: 1,986
    What did you say?

    I reckon it went something like this:

    David Arnold is a bleeping bleep deaf bleeping bleep who doesn't know the difference between a bleeping trumpet and a bleeping guitar whilst its stuck up his big hairy bleep. He's a talentless bleeping bleep who has wasted bleeping opportunity after bleeping opportunity. His ears must be filled with bleep because that's all he bleeping produces the bleeping bleep overrated bleeping mother bleeper.
    It wasn't, he didn't bash Arnold in his reply.

  • SaintMarkSaintMark
    Posts: 7,653
    Yes, it's a distrubing trend I've noticed of late - "if you don't think like us, then you don't deserve to have an opinion".
    I don't mind him liking DA, but when it comes to discussing calling him the favorite composer of all you kinda picked the poorest choice and I really care little about his opinion on Bondmusic that is. I would skip his remarks which is my perogative I believe.

    He is however welcome to his opinion.

  • SirHenryLeeChaChingSirHenryLeeChaChing
    Posts: 3,494
    DA is not the worst composer in franchise history, I can think of several who are worse.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited August 2011 Posts: 15,723
    Well Barry and Serra are obviously the 2 best Bond composers. Barry seem to be almost unanimously hailed as one of the best composers in history, and Serra seem to divide Bond fans, but he undoubtebly is one of the best composer in the business today, so it's a privilege to have in the Bond legacy... Whether you like his GE soundtrack or not is up to personal taste, but saying he is a bad composer is simply untrue... Arnold isn't bad per se, but he is the least trained composer to work on Bond... But I still have to admit Monty Norman made horrible, campy music. I'd even take Arnold over Norman.
  • SharkShark Banned
    Posts: 348
    DA is not the worst composer in franchise history, I can think of several who are worse.
    You're right. Steve Jablonsky perhaps, or the guy who wrote the score for TROLL 2.
  • nethegaunernethegauner
    Posts: 74

    It wasn't, he didn't bash Arnold in his reply.
    The original posting that was being referred to contained a positive comment on Arnold. So if this gentleman did not bash the composer in his deleted posting, then logic implies that---if he bashed anybody or anything at all, that is---he might did bash the author of the commentary instead.

    Hm . . .

    If that indeed was so, I am sorry I missed it.

    Gee, I really shoud start a new thread about "Die another day" being the best Bond movie ever.

    Bazinga . . !
  • nethegaunernethegauner
    Posts: 74
    Might I add that I watched "Casino Royal" again the other day---paying extra attention to Arnold's soundtrack in order to try to understand why so many of You seem to dislike (or even hate) his work.

    I failed.

    He still is my favorite Bond composer . . .
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    I'm willing to bet Arnold will be back.
  • SharkShark Banned
    edited August 2011 Posts: 348
    Might I add that I watched "Casino Royal" again the other day---paying extra attention to Arnold's soundtrack in order to try to understand why so many of You seem to dislike (or even hate) his work.

    I failed.
    This community does not tolerate failure, No. 12.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,257
    He still is my favorite Bond composer . . .
    No problem, sir. We're all entitled to an opinion. However, I need to know. In what sense does Arnold rank higher than John Barry for you? I'm curious to read your arguments.
  • nethegaunernethegauner
    edited August 2011 Posts: 74
    This community does not tolerate failure, No. 12.
    That's a good one . . !
    No problem, sir. We're all entitled to an opinion. However, I need to know. In what sense does Arnold rank higher than John Barry for you? I'm curious to read your arguments.
    Well, as I have disqualified myself from any discussion about music, I guess I have no meaningful answer for You . . .

    ;-)

    Seriously, I cannot quite give You a straigth answer. We are talking about art, right? And in art---be it paintings, two-dimensional moving images, musical compositions---beauty lies in the eyes (or ears) of the beholder, doesn't it?

    I just like how Arnold blends a classic, adventureous approch with modern elements---and how he plays with the Bond theme. I love what he has written for the Thames chase from "The world is not enough", but also the track accompanying Bonds evening at the opera in "Quantum of solcae". I enjoy this and other atmospheric pieces from the same movie very much---like the one that can be heard when Bond drives around Haiti and also those guitar tunes playing during the London rain sequence or at the train station close to the movies end. But then again, I geatly enjoy the thrill of Arnolds music for the opeing sequence of "Tomorrow never dies" . . .

    See? I failed again---I told You what I liked in particular, but not quite why. Call me No. 12 . . .

    But do not worry guys: I got lots of John Barry albums in my CD rack. Of course I love what he created for the Bond series, too. And of course, he laid the groundwork for those who came after him. It is just that Arnolds musical writing is a bit closer to my personal tastes---and that I am quite a bit baffled how much his work is disliked around here.

    :-(

    By the way: Am I the only one not using crypting abbreviations when citing Bond titles?

    :-?
  • BennyBenny Shaken not stirredAdministrator, Moderator
    Posts: 15,169
    Might I add that I watched "Casino Royal" again the other day---paying extra attention to Arnold's soundtrack in order to try to understand why so many of You seem to dislike (or even hate) his work.

    I failed.

    He still is my favorite Bond composer . . .
    You'll find little appreciation of Arnolds work here, but there are those of us who do.
    Whilst he's no John Barry, I do like some of his work. Casino Royale was imo his best Bond work to date, but I also have a soft spot for TND as well.
    At the end of the day @nethegauner if you like his work, then that's fine mate. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise. Plenty of overly pretentious jerks swimming around to trying to undermine anyone who disagrees with them.
  • tqbtqb
    Posts: 1,022
    Not sure if it's been posted or not
    but in this interview-
    Arnold says he's working on the olympics which could be why he hasn't been worrying about Bond yet.
  • PanchitoPistolesPanchitoPistoles 2.0
    edited September 2011 Posts: 4,619
    First of all: I renamed this thread so that we can discuss here anything related to the score of Bond 23.

    I've already written a lot of times that it would make me very happy if Thomas Newman composed the score of the movie. I would be even happier if he also collaborated on the title song, I mean listen to this song, it's better than any of the Bond songs since GoldenEye:



    I know, it's not bondian at all, but I think he is capable of composing a great bondian title song as well.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited September 2011 Posts: 15,723
    Thomas Newman would be a massive improvement.
  • SaintMarkSaintMark
    Posts: 7,653
    Anybody would be a massive improvement. I want the Bond music once again be something special instead of generic actionmusic. Of course DA cannot match the quality of Barry's music but he has had plenty of movies to show us something special, even after the reboot he failed to give us something special of his own, create something new for the future bondmusic. AND he did not take that chance........... I want to see other folks having a stab at it.
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