Skyfall Questions (Spoilers)

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  • Posts: 3,333
    Okay, back to the Chinese fella in the room. What was the main purpose of Silva having him killed? Were they hoping that he brought along a suitcase full of gold bars in exchange for the stolen painting, even without seeing the merchandise first? Also, I don't understand why Silva would need any more money if he knew the net was closing in and he wouldn't have that much time to spend it?

    Has anyone who's seen it multiple times got a better handle on this sub-plot?
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    bondsum wrote:
    Okay, back to the Chinese fella in the room. What was the main purpose of Silva having him killed? Were they hoping that he brought along a suitcase full of gold bars in exchange for the stolen painting, even without seeing the merchandise first? Also, I don't understand why Silva would need any more money if he knew the net was closing in and he wouldn't have that much time to spend it?

    Has anyone who's seen it multiple times got a better handle on this sub-plot?

    When I watched it again on Saturday I paid close attention as it still baffles me. I'm still no closer to knowing. What I find strange is that there is the entire pursuit from Shanghai airport plus the fist fight to simply have Bond find a casino chip. There was surely a more exhilerating way of doing this and one that didn't involve an incidental scene that appeared to be relevant but had no real reason for existing.
  • Posts: 3,333
    That's how I remember it, @RC7. It just felt like a visual plot device to get Bond from A to B and then on to C.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    edited December 2012 Posts: 28,694
    Maybe the scene with Severine coming into Shanghai includes more information on who the Chinese man is and just what the hell is going on. At least let's hope so, because it bugs me too. As for the Macau chip I thought it was cool how Bond took that, gave Severine the sign that he wanted to meet when he cashed it in, rubbing it in their face that he killed Patrice as a way to meet Silva.
  • I was excited about a potential new Moneypenny, until I heard the line "declined active duty" from Eve...

    Who is Eve Moneypenny supposed to be? Jane's daughter? niece? Because the Moneypenny I adored was sassy a secretary, who probably loved Bond, but ultimately refused to join a long list of girls notched on his bedpost. Eve is not that character, and while all other changes were awesome (love new M and Q with a passion) I just cannot compute this new Moneypenny.

    Plus, if she was an operative in the field surely she would have been a better shot than she was. Not counting the shooting Bond bit, which is a tough shot, she fires repeatedly at "baddies" in the lead up to that...don't think she actually hit anyone! Bond failed his test on return at, was it 40%? How the hell did she ever pass?!

    Maybe I'm just bitter that Samantha had to retire. But seriously, this Moneypenny has no sass. Don't even get me started on her possible night with Bond.

    Couple of things-

    1. Harris' Moneypenny did refuse Bond's advances, and rightly so. That should never happen.

    2. When I heard they had retired Samantha Bond's version of Moneypenny, I was only disappointed that confetti and balloons weren't raining down from the ceiling. That isn't a knock on Bond herself. She has excellent chemistry with Brosnan, but her dialogue was poorly written smut out of a bad porn film, and the virtual masturbation speaks for itself. In every conversation, there's a tangible feeling of this Moneypenny trying to out flirt and one up Bond. This is a bit part and one of Barb's feminist ideas gone horribly wrong. The flirtations and Moneypenny's dialogue in SF were much classier and much more character appropriate in the manner our dear late Lois would have appreciated and respected.

    Well done to EON for realizing and rectifying their mistakes of 1995-2002! =D>

    That's what was being inferred? I never realized that! Holy crap.
  • edited December 2012 Posts: 3,494
    RC7 wrote:
    RC7 wrote:
    RC7 wrote:
    Sorry if this has been asked, but I have one question that seems to stand taller than any others I may bring up about it in the future.

    This is really the one that stands out for you? It's pretty much exactly as you say, it's to be assumed she was beaten, possibly raped but it doesn't really matter to the story what happened. Re. Bond, it was always Silva's intention that Bond would make his way to the island IMO. She uses the line 'more than you know' when Bond questions 'Does he always get what he wants?' To me this says she was always going to deliver Bond to him. She even says 'Sorry'. He's been well informed beforehand and probably knew Bond was on to Patrice. I mean if he can hack MI6 for Bond's records I'm sure he can see that he is on a flight to Shanghai. Then again, there are quite a few things that certainly don't add up or are never clarified.
    If it is a part of the story then it bloody well does matter what happened. If so, that is one of the most horrendous things since Della in LTK.

    It's not part of the story. It happens off screen, you can see she's been beaten. Why does it matter if she was raped? I think there are far more pressing issues that weren't resolved or made no sense, such as the never-ending 'who's the guy Patrice shot?' or 'how did Silva walk out of MI6 past armed guards?'.

    It happened in the story, we see her beaten, so how isn't that a part of the film? If it happened in the film and we see evidence of her victimization, how isn't it a part of the film? Good god am I wasting my post here...

    So if Bond disappears out of the room for a moment and reappears moments laters wiping his hands, do we need a shot of him taking a dump or can we just assume this by applying some logic? I don't understand why we need to know what happened in the intervening time with Severine it's clear she was beaten, probably for sleeping with Bond and the fact her boss is a psychopath.

    I think so too. I can hear Scaramanga saying "a mistress cannot serve two masters" and Silva seemed to ascribe to that.
  • Maybe Severine knew too much, and Silva needed to make sure she didn't talk when he got captured. She obviously would've been interrogated, and she might have known some detail that would've ruined Silva's plan. So Silva had her killed. Who knows, the man's crazy. 8-}
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,976
    Saw it for a fourth showing tonight and a few miscellaneous questions popped up:

    1.) How did the train in Turkey press on after having a crane smashed through the roof of one cab, and another few cabs had been derailed?

    2.) Where did Patrice get the pistol from when arriving in Shanghai? From the text, I surmise he arrived on a commercial flight, so how did he acquire a pistol?
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Creasy47 wrote:
    Saw it for a fourth showing tonight and a few miscellaneous questions popped up:

    1.) How did the train in Turkey press on after having a crane smashed through the roof of one cab, and another few cabs had been derailed?

    2.) Where did Patrice get the pistol from when arriving in Shanghai? From the text, I surmise he arrived on a commercial flight, so how did he acquire a pistol?

    He had a field contact who supplied him? Maybe he stole it from the MI6 agents.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    edited December 2012 Posts: 40,976
    @0BradyM0Bondfanatic7, but that wouldn't work, because he was on an airplane. How did he manage to sneak it on? I can understand the sniper rifle he has, because it would have just looked like a bunch of metal rods in a suitcase.

    I was thinking he could have just had a contact in the airport, but I figured that would be important enough to show in the film.
  • Posts: 5,745
    Creasy47 wrote:
    @0BradyM0Bondfanatic7, but that wouldn't work, because he was on an airplane. How did he manage to sneak it on? I can understand the sniper rifle he has, because it would have just looked like a bunch of metal rods in a suitcase.

    I was thinking he could have just had a contact in the airport, but I figured that would be important enough to show in the film.

    In the script, Severine covertly exchanges the briefcase to Patrice on an escalator. The case may have contained both the rifle and the pistol. They shot the scene but cut it from the film.

    If it had stayed in the film, the scene where Bond is dressed as the driver would have continued to see Bond follow Patrice, and see the exchange.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Creasy47 wrote:
    @0BradyM0Bondfanatic7, but that wouldn't work, because he was on an airplane. How did he manage to sneak it on? I can understand the sniper rifle he has, because it would have just looked like a bunch of metal rods in a suitcase.

    I was thinking he could have just had a contact in the airport, but I figured that would be important enough to show in the film.

    I thought you meant in the PTS.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,976
    @JWESTBROOK, there's my answer. Real shame that they cut that scene.
  • I would love to know why the metal detector fail to go off when Silva and his man went through it........and that no one has any idea that Silva was coming.....beside Tanner The police was far too late to stop them
  • I would love to know why the metal detector fail to go off when Silva and his man went through it........and that no one has any idea that Silva was coming.....beside Tanner The police was far too late to stop them

    Well Bond obviously couldn't alert the police as he was in pursuit but he knew his best chance was alerting Tanner. I think it makes sense. Also, the metal detector likely made a sound of some sort (the shot had a background sound of M still talking instead of what was on screen) and it would have alerted the men standing there but obviously they weren't able to do anything once they were dead.
  • When Bond emerges from an emergency door on the London subway, hundreds of people are going past, yet no-one pays the slightest attention or even gives it a second thought ? That would of got my attention. And once again, Bond falling through ice into freezing water and being below for a good three minutes in a struggle and still managing to get back to (rescue) M or intervene, and none the worse for wear it appeared. I think we all need to suspend belief sometimes with Bond, but Craig has made it so much more serious since his debut, but we'll let it lie
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,976
    When Bond emerges from an emergency door on the London subway, hundreds of people are going past, yet no-one pays the slightest attention or even gives it a second thought ? That would of got my attention. And once again, Bond falling through ice into freezing water and being below for a good three minutes in a struggle and still managing to get back to (rescue) M or intervene, and none the worse for wear it appeared. I think we all need to suspend belief sometimes with Bond, but Craig has made it so much more serious since his debut, but we'll let it lie

    They're just scenes you have to accept and not nitpick. Like I asked the other day: how does the train in Istanbul manage to continue after having a carriage hatch ripped open, and another few carriages detached? Because it continues the scene.

    If the train stopped, it would have been a ruined action set-piece.
    If someone stopped Bond after exiting the emergency door, then M would most likely be dead and the film couldn't continue.
    If Bond froze to death in the water...well, goodbye, Bond series.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,976
    I remember reading about it a long while back, but I don't remember the answer, and have been curious these past few viewings: what is it that Eve screams when she hops out of the jeep and starts shooting at Patrice as he jumps over the bridge? Is it just something in Turkish to the likes of 'Move.' or 'Get out of the way'?
  • edited December 2012 Posts: 2,081
    0013 wrote:
    Was Silva actually gay or was he just doing a Max Zorin tribute impression and making Bond uncomfortable?? It doesn't matter, I just couldn't tell?

    Well he claimed to be a "lover" of Severine, so he should be bi. Anyway he seems to be as ambiguous sexually as he is both mentally and emotionally (by that I don't mean that his sexual orientation is unhealthy but that he's unhealthy on the whole, the sexuality predicates on that).

    I agree he definitely isn't gay (I'm not quite getting why anyone would think that he is, anyway), but I don't see any actual reason to think he's bi, either. Why would he be? Because he has a female lover and fondles Bond? Not so sure about that. Besides, that's assuming he can be thus categorized. I liked what Craig said about how he saw the character as someone who is "undefined" and who "would f*** anything". Makes perfect sense. As for that little scene with Bond, I didn't see it as primarily sexual at all, though I haven't quite decided to what extent I think it was (if any... I do suspect some, but not sure).


    0013 wrote:
    Could they have incorporated Quantum into the storyline, if not in a subtle way (Silva says they sell elections to the highest bidder, just like quantum do in QOS almost)


    He states that in his island he picks his missions and he doesn't have a boss. I think he won't wanted Mr White or any highier of Quantum telling him what to do.

    I totally agree with this. Silva would never again allow others to tell him what to do or to have any kind of boss.

  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    Tuulia wrote:
    I agree he definitely isn't gay (I'm not quite getting why anyone would think that he is, anyway), but I don't see any actual reason to think he's bi, either. Why would he be?

    Why would he not be? It's slightly ambiguous which is what is good about it. I think it's reasonable to assume that Silva is either bisexual or, as we never actually see him with anyone, asexual. Either way he's certainly not heterosexual.

  • Posts: 2,081
    RC7 wrote:
    Tuulia wrote:
    I agree he definitely isn't gay (I'm not quite getting why anyone would think that he is, anyway), but I don't see any actual reason to think he's bi, either. Why would he be?

    Why would he not be? It's slightly ambiguous which is what is good about it. I think it's reasonable to assume that Silva is either bisexual or, as we never actually see him with anyone, asexual. Either way he's certainly not heterosexual.

    Did you read the rest of what I wrote?

    Why would he not be bi? I didn't say there's a reason to think he isn't, but that there is no reason to think he is. :)

    Also how can you categorically say he's not heterosexual?

    Anyway, I also like that it's not clear at all. I'll go with Dan's assessment. : B-)
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    Tuulia wrote:
    Also how can you categorically say he's not heterosexual?

    Fair point, I know a lot of straight men who appear to be gay. I guess I'm assuming that P+W aren't that subversive and most of what they write can be taken at face value.
  • Posts: 2,081
    RC7 wrote:
    Tuulia wrote:
    Also how can you categorically say he's not heterosexual?

    Fair point, I know a lot of straight men who appear to be gay. I guess I'm assuming that P+W aren't that subversive and most of what they write can be taken at face value.

    So to you Silva "appears" to be gay? Oh. In what way?

  • Posts: 11,425
    Getafix wrote:
    I think the main problem is that at heart the story is not very strong. Typically for Purvis and Wade there is a lot of meandering all over the place, fag-end plot lines and character arcs that aren't explained or developed properly. I really am completely bemused how it's got the reviews it has. The plot is flabby and incoherent and although Logan has given it a thin gloss of decent dialogue this cannot hide the fact that (as usual with recent EON scripts), it just hasn't had the quality inputs and ruthless redraftings that it needed.

    I also detect some odd editing in SF that has possibly cut vital scenes that would have made the narrative flow less dislocated. However, given it's length and the considerable amount of time given over to generic and not very exciting action and explosions, I think Mendes could have afforded a bit more exposition at key moments. A film with a clever, twisting plotthat makes you think is all very well, but a film that requires you to make up entire chunks of narrative in order to provide any sense whatsoever is a different matter entirely.

    I have heard a lot about how this film supposedly incorporates a lot of Flemingesque elements, but if we're brutally honest the plot is essentially a mash up of GE and TWINE, and with source material like that, it was never going to bode well on the quality front.
    JWESTBROOK wrote:
    Creasy47 wrote:
    @0BradyM0Bondfanatic7, but that wouldn't work, because he was on an airplane. How did he manage to sneak it on? I can understand the sniper rifle he has, because it would have just looked like a bunch of metal rods in a suitcase.

    I was thinking he could have just had a contact in the airport, but I figured that would be important enough to show in the film.

    In the script, Severine covertly exchanges the briefcase to Patrice on an escalator. The case may have contained both the rifle and the pistol. They shot the scene but cut it from the film.

    If it had stayed in the film, the scene where Bond is dressed as the driver would have continued to see Bond follow Patrice, and see the exchange.

    I had a strong sense when watching the film that there must have been several key scenes that were lost in the edit. Given how long the length of the PTS and the endless explosions in the finale I really think Mendes could have found time for more explanation and old fashioned story telling. The film just jumps around incoherently at times.
  • Posts: 11,425
    When Bond emerges from an emergency door on the London subway, hundreds of people are going past, yet no-one pays the slightest attention or even gives it a second thought ? That would of got my attention. And once again, Bond falling through ice into freezing water and being below for a good three minutes in a struggle and still managing to get back to (rescue) M or intervene, and none the worse for wear it appeared. I think we all need to suspend belief sometimes with Bond, but Craig has made it so much more serious since his debut, but we'll let it lie

    The lake fight bothered me too. Especially after Bond's unexplained survival at the start of the film by the time he magically appears in the chapel I just felt the film makers were treating the audience like idiots without even an attempt to provide credibility to the plot.

    Come back invisible car! All is forgiven!
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    Tuulia wrote:
    RC7 wrote:
    Tuulia wrote:
    Also how can you categorically say he's not heterosexual?

    Fair point, I know a lot of straight men who appear to be gay. I guess I'm assuming that P+W aren't that subversive and most of what they write can be taken at face value.

    So to you Silva "appears" to be gay? Oh. In what way?

    He embodies the traits a stereotypical homosexual would, provocative sexual foreplay with a male, a flamboyance in his physical demeanour (not only the island, look at the way he casually tosses a grenade into Skyfall) and an intonation in his speech. Now, like I say, this is stereotypical but I wouldn't expect P+W to scratch below the surface so I took it at face value.
  • Posts: 11,425
    RC7 wrote:
    Tuulia wrote:
    RC7 wrote:
    Tuulia wrote:
    Also how can you categorically say he's not heterosexual?

    Fair point, I know a lot of straight men who appear to be gay. I guess I'm assuming that P+W aren't that subversive and most of what they write can be taken at face value.

    So to you Silva "appears" to be gay? Oh. In what way?

    He embodies the traits a stereotypical homosexual would, provocative sexual foreplay with a male, a flamboyance in his physical demeanour (not only the island, look at the way he casually tosses a grenade into Skyfall) and an intonation in his speech. Now, like I say, this is stereotypical but I wouldn't expect P+W to scratch below the surface so I took it at face value.

    I think Silva is gay probably but likes beautiful women. This is not exactly unusual.

    I would have loved to learn more about Severine. She had the potential to be the best thing about SF. Bloody annoying when her character just gets tossed aside by P+W.
  • Posts: 11,189
    Getafix wrote:
    RC7 wrote:
    Tuulia wrote:
    RC7 wrote:
    Tuulia wrote:
    Also how can you categorically say he's not heterosexual?

    Fair point, I know a lot of straight men who appear to be gay. I guess I'm assuming that P+W aren't that subversive and most of what they write can be taken at face value.

    So to you Silva "appears" to be gay? Oh. In what way?

    He embodies the traits a stereotypical homosexual would, provocative sexual foreplay with a male, a flamboyance in his physical demeanour (not only the island, look at the way he casually tosses a grenade into Skyfall) and an intonation in his speech. Now, like I say, this is stereotypical but I wouldn't expect P+W to scratch below the surface so I took it at face value.

    I think Silva is gay probably but likes beautiful women. This is not exactly unusual.

    I would have loved to learn more about Severine. She had the potential to be the best thing about SF. Bloody annoying when her character just gets tossed aside by P+W.

    I wouldn't want to sacrifice her death scene as it was a fine bit of acting from both her and Craig/
  • Posts: 11,425
    Really? I thought it was bizarre. No pathos, no emotion. Just weird. The film gets into deeper trouble from that point on.
  • Posts: 2,081
    RC7 wrote:
    Tuulia wrote:
    RC7 wrote:
    Tuulia wrote:
    Also how can you categorically say he's not heterosexual?

    Fair point, I know a lot of straight men who appear to be gay. I guess I'm assuming that P+W aren't that subversive and most of what they write can be taken at face value.

    So to you Silva "appears" to be gay? Oh. In what way?

    He embodies the traits a stereotypical homosexual would, provocative sexual foreplay with a male, a flamboyance in his physical demeanour (not only the island, look at the way he casually tosses a grenade into Skyfall) and an intonation in his speech. Now, like I say, this is stereotypical but I wouldn't expect P+W to scratch below the surface so I took it at face value.

    I'm not getting into what P+W might or might not scratch, especially since they weren't the only people involved in writing the script. But.

    Maybe it's a cultural thing or something, but I didn't take his physical demeanor, flamboyance, or his intonation as even stereotypically gay. (That would have been very, very bad stereotypical.) I also didn't take his sexual harassment of Bond as primarily sexual, but more a game. Poker. And while Bond squirmed ever so slightly, he didn't blink. Kept his cool. Won that game. They were sparring with each other all the way through and that scene was just part of that. Silva was trying to get under Bond's skin... and again when they went outdoors after it... Bond deflected both attempts verbally - at least on the surface (what he showed to Silva). For Silva to use sexual harassment was very clever of him. He obviously would have known Bond had been tortured before (as of course Silva himself had been), and took an opposite approach - instead of extreme violence he resorted to extreme tenderness. Visually the Skyfall scene is like a negative, or a twisted mirror image of the Casino Royale torture scene - colours, lighting, clothing/lack of. Both had sexual undertones. It's hardly possible to touch another person more tenderly than Silva did, using mere fingertips, just barely touching - well, until he got to the legs to give a firmer stroke and a little squeeze... sort of like a full stop at the end of a sentence... or, rather, a question mark in this case. Anyway, it was all very gentle. It did still have an effect, Bond's discomfort was obvious enough even though he tried his best not to show it. Silva's tactic was working pretty well, better than violence would have. Here's this alpha male, likely to take a severe beating without crumbling, but challenge him sexually and it might be another thing altogether. Certainly worth a try. So Silva just goes for it, possibly noticing he kinda likes it, it's an interesting experiment for sure. Well, to me he looks like he's exploring a brand new toy at one point. I rather thought it might have been his first time.

    I don't know. Just a few thoughts I had. Happy to discuss and argue. :)

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