Skyfall Questions (Spoilers)

bond50

Getafix wrote:

0BradyM0Bondfanatic7 wrote:

Getafix wrote:

I enjoyed Silva's appearance and entrance speech. I thought Severine's death was a very odd scene that could have been much more powerfully handled. After that I don't think there is a lot of opportunity for Bond and Silva to face off or continue their little game. It becomes all about Silva's obsession with M. There are two great opportunities for another great Silva speech or verbal confrontation - in the court room (it would have been perfect if Silva had used this as his opportunity to cross examine M) and then in the climax at Skyfall Lodge or in the chapel. But it never happens and we just get chases and explosions in place of meaty dialogue and narrative or emotional resolution.

Did you miss the moving speech about espionage by M, followed by her recitation of the Tennyson poem? You can't get much more meaty in dialogue and narrative there, considering that the poem is a metaphor for M and Bond as well as their duty to the UK. It is a brilliantly constructed, emotionally packed scene directed exceptionally, and I would keep it in the film over every other scene. Another Silva speech can't top that.

To be honest I don't remember M's speech in detail. What I took away from that scene was her character's phenomenal arrogance. I couldn't work out if it was entirely intentional, but given that she'd utterly c*cked up, I thought the defiance she showed and disrespect towards the politicians was completely out of place. She deserved to be given a right b*ll*cking and she should have sat there and take it like a professional, not start lecturing the committee and chucking poems at them. This was a moment for humility and facing her own falibility.

I'm honestly not sure what we were supposed to take away from those scenes. Are we supposed to be impressed by her 'f*** you' bolshyness, or is it a sign of her losing her grip - the end of an era of unaccountability and institutional incompetence that she has overseen? The film is full of symbolism, so it's entirely possible that Mendes intended M to represent the stupidity, arrogance and incompetence of the intelligence community (think Iraq war and dodgy dossiers).

It could have worked brilliantly if Silva had planned all along to take the courtroom hostage and use it as the moment for his final confrontation with M. This would have MADE SENSE - the evil genius has created this crisis and intended all along for the confrontation to climax infront of the parliamentary committee. Not only would we have had the much-needed face-off between M and the villain, but it would have provided an opportunity to make M seem sympathetic again, instead of coming over as some incompetent and useless old bat. Infact, if Silva's entrance had been preceded by M's admission of her errors and some acceptance for those mistakes made in difficult circumstances, it would have undermined Silva's own moral authority (let's face it, he had every reason to be pissed of with her). A couple of minutes of meaty verbal jousting between Dench and Mendes in the court room would have been the cue for Bond to make an ingenious entrance and rescue of M before heading off to Scotland.

Are we supposed to believe that Silva spent years hatching a plan only so that he could pump M full of lead at a committee meeting? He didn't want to force her to confront what she'd done? To accept her guilt? To express regret, humility, repentence in front of her political masters - to personally enjoy her professional and emotional destruction? No. All he wanted to do was shoot the cr*p out of her.

And then, as if that anti-climax wasn't disappointing enough, all we get at the end is a load more machine guns and explosions and some woeful nonsense about Bond's childhood (what does any of that stuff actually have to do with the rest of story?).

Like I said in my review of the film Skyfall is a MESS ! Too many unanswered questions and a lot of holes in the film make you wonder if somehow Marc Forster was involved somewhere in the shadows of this one too.

0BradyM0Bondfanatic7

Films are able to have cool moments where you actually have to *gasp* think for yourself! Imagination is one of the most powerful things we can do as humans. It would be a shame if a film or play told us or showed us EVERYTHING. Yawn.

Pierce2Daniel

0BradyM0Bondfanatic7 wrote:

Pierce2Daniel wrote:

Mallory asks Bond why he came back? we never really get a straight answer from 007.
Why do we think he came back?

I think there was two ways of looking at it: 1.)He saw that mi6 was coming under attack and came back to protect M who was clearly being targeted. 2.) He came back out of a sense of duty for England.
But it's not like he was the only agent who could have been send on the mission, M has other double 0 agents. Was M the reason he returned?

It is both 1 and 2. And we all know that Bond is MI6's number one man. Who else would you send BUT Bond? Even at 40% he beats all the other agents at 70% and above.

I think it makes more sense thematically that he returned for M. He could have come back and report for duty at any point but instead he decided to play 'dead' in Turkey.

0BradyM0Bondfanatic7

Pierce2Daniel wrote:

0BradyM0Bondfanatic7 wrote:

Pierce2Daniel wrote:

Mallory asks Bond why he came back? we never really get a straight answer from 007.
Why do we think he came back?

I think there was two ways of looking at it: 1.)He saw that mi6 was coming under attack and came back to protect M who was clearly being targeted. 2.) He came back out of a sense of duty for England.
But it's not like he was the only agent who could have been send on the mission, M has other double 0 agents. Was M the reason he returned?

It is both 1 and 2. And we all know that Bond is MI6's number one man. Who else would you send BUT Bond? Even at 40% he beats all the other agents at 70% and above.

I think it makes more sense thematically that he returned for M. He could have come back and report for duty at any point but instead he decided to play 'dead' in Turkey.

Yes, prominently for M. Like some have said, he saw that M's office was what got blasted, and he was motivated back into action.

bond50

One of the most horribly funny scenes is the rooftop exchange of M's Bulldog Jack to Craig Bond, So M knew she was gonna die and left him this trinket ? She must of called her lawyer up the moment he left for Shanghai and just happend to include this in her will, Given the time frame for her demise was only a mere 4 days since Bond left for the east ,captured Silva and the Skyfallout ending.

0BradyM0Bondfanatic7

bond50 wrote:

One of the most horribly funny scenes is the rooftop exchange of M's Bulldog Jack to Craig Bond, So M knew she was gonna die and left him this trinket ? She must of called her lawyer up the moment he left for Shanghai and just happend to include this in her will, Given the time frame for her demise was only a mere 4 days since Bond left for the east ,captured Silva and the Skyfallout ending.

If you bothered to analyze the film instead of whining about it, you would understand that M and Bond often share banter about the bulldog. M makes the statement to Bond about him always commenting on her designing habits, and Bond has an obvious history of complaining about the dog to M. Therefore, M left that in her will to Bond long before Silva ever came back into her life, and it is truly better than anything Bond could receive from her. Eve thinks the statue is M pulling Bond's leg from the grave, but it is so much more than that. Something just between them. The Bulldog is the ultimate symbol of stubbornness, which Bond exemplifies. Just as the Bulldog survived the MI6 explosion, Bond survives everything thrown at him. M has given him the statue as a little trinket to always remind him to keep pushing, no matter what lay ahead for him.

bond50

Oh well excuse me I don't remember the banter between Bond and M about the lil dog in the past 2 Craig Bond / Dench outings. So your just assuming all this ? So Bond hates dogs too ?


"Eve thinks the statue is M pulling Bond's leg from the grave... funny stuff !!!!!!



Han Solo said it best to Chewie in ROTJEDI .....everyone is having delusions of grandeur

Sharky

bond50 wrote:

Oh well excuse me I don't remember the banter between Bond and M about the lil dog in the past 2 Craig Bond / Dench outings. So your just assuming all this ? So Bond hates dogs too ?


"Eve thinks the statue is M pulling Bond's leg from the grave... funny stuff !!!!!!



Han Solo said it best to Chewie in ROTJEDI .....everyone is having delusions of grandeur

I may be wrong but i think M mentions something about Bonds dislike of her interior designs when he mentioned the bulldog as if to say it wasn't the first time he had said something about the dog or other items she had. I think there is quite a lot of stuff in SF where it is left for the viewer to make their own minds up, i quite liked that about the film but others dont which is fine, but i think it was intentional to do that as we have heard of certain exposition scenes which got cut and some of those may've explained things more and maybe the fans who were disapointed and annoyed by certain things would've enjoyed it more if those scenes were included in the final cut. That is not my view because IMO i thought the film works very well as it is.

LeiterStromberg

Was Severine good in the end? I got the feeling for a while that she was only playing the damsel in distress to fit in with Silva's plan to lure Bond to his island. Was she genuinely frightened and seeking Bond's help or was she deliberately baiting a trap? Or both?

Pierce2Daniel

deleted

Creasy47

Thanks for posting a review, @Pierce2Daniel, but this thread is dedicated to questions about the film, not fan reviews.

0BradyM0Bondfanatic7

Sharky wrote:

bond50 wrote:

Oh well excuse me I don't remember the banter between Bond and M about the lil dog in the past 2 Craig Bond / Dench outings. So your just assuming all this ? So Bond hates dogs too ?


"Eve thinks the statue is M pulling Bond's leg from the grave... funny stuff !!!!!!



Han Solo said it best to Chewie in ROTJEDI .....everyone is having delusions of grandeur

I may be wrong but i think M mentions something about Bonds dislike of her interior designs when he mentioned the bulldog as if to say it wasn't the first time he had said something about the dog or other items she had. I think there is quite a lot of stuff in SF where it is left for the viewer to make their own minds up, i quite liked that about the film but others dont which is fine, but i think it was intentional to do that as we have heard of certain exposition scenes which got cut and some of those may've explained things more and maybe the fans who were disapointed and annoyed by certain things would've enjoyed it more if those scenes were included in the final cut. That is not my view because IMO i thought the film works very well as it is.

At least someone knows what the heck I am talking about. Thanks for actually seeing Skyfall and knowing your stuff, @Sharky.

thelordflasheart

0BradyM0Bondfanatic7 wrote:

Pierce2Daniel wrote:

Mallory asks Bond why he came back? we never really get a straight answer from 007.
Why do we think he came back?

I think there was two ways of looking at it: 1.)He saw that mi6 was coming under attack and came back to protect M who was clearly being targeted. 2.) He came back out of a sense of duty for England.
But it's not like he was the only agent who could have been send on the mission, M has other double 0 agents. Was M the reason he returned?

It is both 1 and 2. And we all know that Bond is MI6's number one man. Who else would you send BUT Bond? Even at 40% he beats all the other agents at 70% and above.

I agree with this but there is also a very important thematic aspect as well.

I've said in previous posts that one of SF's strengths is the "mirroring" of characters and situations in the script. Both Bond and Silva were seen as disposable by M. Both had injuries occur to them. Silva let this turn him bitter and vengeful; Bond was bitter but as soon as he was needed to "protect" MI6, M, and by extension England his sense of duty made him return despite what had happened. Stubborn, loyal, refusing to let his "master" (again, this could be M or England) be unprotected - Bond is that British Bulldog that we think of along the same lines of Churchill. When he's sprinting to the inquiry with the music and the reciting of Tennyson, giving every...thing...he's...got we see St George in action.

But again, Bond and Silva are flip sides of the same coin. I'm curious to hear the director's commentary; I'm assume that Bardem having blond hair rather than his natural brown was to move him closer to Craig's Bond to further the comparison.

Pierce2Daniel

This is only something I've thought of now but it's really in my mind.
The scene Kincade gives Bond his father's old rifle with his initials 'A.B' on it, was this supposed to be a sly nod to Albert Broccoli you think? I know the initials are just a lucky coincidence, but it seems symbolic that Kincade didn't throw that gun away and gave it to Bond with the line 'the old ways are the best'.....it's just got me thinking, what do we think. Babs and MGW accepting the baton from their father while also carving something new for themselves?

I also love how Bond just threw the gun away once it was no use to him, he's not a particularly nostalgic man, plus Daniel Craig looks badass when he chucks it away and kicks up the new gun.

Tuulia

Pierce2Daniel wrote:

I also love how Bond just threw the gun away once it was no use to him, he's not a particularly nostalgic man, plus Daniel Craig looks badass when he chucks it away and kicks up the new gun.

I distinctly remember that got a huge grin out of me on Friday... and now thinking back on it. Beautifully badass indeed. :D

And yeah, he's not a sentimental type. :P

Sharky

thelordflasheart wrote:

0BradyM0Bondfanatic7 wrote:

Pierce2Daniel wrote:

Mallory asks Bond why he came back? we never really get a straight answer from 007.
Why do we think he came back?

I think there was two ways of looking at it: 1.)He saw that mi6 was coming under attack and came back to protect M who was clearly being targeted. 2.) He came back out of a sense of duty for England.
But it's not like he was the only agent who could have been send on the mission, M has other double 0 agents. Was M the reason he returned?

It is both 1 and 2. And we all know that Bond is MI6's number one man. Who else would you send BUT Bond? Even at 40% he beats all the other agents at 70% and above.

I agree with this but there is also a very important thematic aspect as well.

I've said in previous posts that one of SF's strengths is the "mirroring" of characters and situations in the script. Both Bond and Silva were seen as disposable by M. Both had injuries occur to them. Silva let this turn him bitter and vengeful; Bond was bitter but as soon as he was needed to "protect" MI6, M, and by extension England his sense of duty made him return despite what had happened. Stubborn, loyal, refusing to let his "master" (again, this could be M or England) be unprotected - Bond is that British Bulldog that we think of along the same lines of Churchill. When he's sprinting to the inquiry with the music and the reciting of Tennyson, giving every...thing...he's...got we see St George in action.

But again, Bond and Silva are flip sides of the same coin. I'm curious to hear the director's commentary; I'm assume that Bardem having blond hair rather than his natural brown was to move him closer to Craig's Bond to further the comparison.

Great post @thelordflashheart i agree with everything you said.

0BradyM0Bondfanatic7

Sharky wrote:

thelordflasheart wrote:

0BradyM0Bondfanatic7 wrote:

Pierce2Daniel wrote:

Mallory asks Bond why he came back? we never really get a straight answer from 007.
Why do we think he came back?

I think there was two ways of looking at it: 1.)He saw that mi6 was coming under attack and came back to protect M who was clearly being targeted. 2.) He came back out of a sense of duty for England.
But it's not like he was the only agent who could have been send on the mission, M has other double 0 agents. Was M the reason he returned?

It is both 1 and 2. And we all know that Bond is MI6's number one man. Who else would you send BUT Bond? Even at 40% he beats all the other agents at 70% and above.

I agree with this but there is also a very important thematic aspect as well.

I've said in previous posts that one of SF's strengths is the "mirroring" of characters and situations in the script. Both Bond and Silva were seen as disposable by M. Both had injuries occur to them. Silva let this turn him bitter and vengeful; Bond was bitter but as soon as he was needed to "protect" MI6, M, and by extension England his sense of duty made him return despite what had happened. Stubborn, loyal, refusing to let his "master" (again, this could be M or England) be unprotected - Bond is that British Bulldog that we think of along the same lines of Churchill. When he's sprinting to the inquiry with the music and the reciting of Tennyson, giving every...thing...he's...got we see St George in action.

But again, Bond and Silva are flip sides of the same coin. I'm curious to hear the director's commentary; I'm assume that Bardem having blond hair rather than his natural brown was to move him closer to Craig's Bond to further the comparison.

Great post @thelordflashheart i agree with everything you said.

I concur, hats off @thelordflasheart. Bond and Silva remind me of Sherlock and Moriarty. Very similar people, yet two sides of the coin. Moriarty is what Sherlock would be if he wasn't "on the side of the angels", and I get that same feeling with Bond and Silva.

TheWizardOfIce

thelordflasheart wrote:

Bond was bitter but as soon as he was needed to "protect" MI6, M, and by extension England his sense of duty made him return despite what had happened. Stubborn, loyal, refusing to let his "master" (again, this could be M or England) be unprotected - Bond is that British Bulldog that we think of along the same lines of Churchill. When he's sprinting to the inquiry with the music and the reciting of Tennyson, giving every...thing...he's...got we see St George in action.

Very well put sir. You almost had me in tears there!

LeiterStromberg

I don't know if this has been asked already, but how in the world did Silva plan to get captured? Was it a lucky break that Bond tracked him down? Surely Bond wasn't meant to trace Patrice to Shanghai in Silva's plan. Was Silva planning on turning himself in later, but James Bond landed up tracking him down so he decided to get captured now instead?

LeiterStromberg

bump

Creasy47

LeiterStromberg wrote:

I don't know if this has been asked already, but how in the world did Silva plan to get captured? Was it a lucky break that Bond tracked him down? Surely Bond wasn't meant to trace Patrice to Shanghai in Silva's plan. Was Silva planning on turning himself in later, but James Bond landed up tracking him down so he decided to get captured now instead?

I'm sure Silva had it all figured out, and knew exactly what Bond was going to do, when he was going to do it. That's why he ensured he would escape when M was in the meeting, so he could arrive there and take her down with minimal security.

TheWizardOfIce

Creasy47 wrote:

LeiterStromberg wrote:

I don't know if this has been asked already, but how in the world did Silva plan to get captured? Was it a lucky break that Bond tracked him down? Surely Bond wasn't meant to trace Patrice to Shanghai in Silva's plan. Was Silva planning on turning himself in later, but James Bond landed up tracking him down so he decided to get captured now instead?

I'm sure Silva had it all figured out, and knew exactly what Bond was going to do, when he was going to do it. That's why he ensured he would escape when M was in the meeting, so he could arrive there and take her down with minimal security.

Yes I'm sure Silva factored into his scheme that Bond would get hit by a ricochet from one of Patrices bullets then dig the fragments out of his shoulder and trace him to Shanghai.

I loved the film but the more you think about the flimsier the plot becomes.

Creasy47

I'm speaking of after his meeting with Severine. Of course he couldn't have known that that would happen, as it's apparent Silva probably had a different plan - or had thought M would send another 00 after Patrice in Shanghai - with the thought that Bond had died after falling from the train.

Sharky

I think that Silva had many contingency plans and had many things in place to keep him one step ahead. If you think about the Bond plots on many of the films you could most likely undo many if not all of them but i think you can also come up with many answers to your own questions as well which is the fun of it.

Creasy47

Sharky wrote:

I think that Silva had many contingency plans and had many things in place to keep him one step ahead. If you think about the Bond plots on many of the films you could most likely undo many if not all of them but i think you can also come up with many answers to your own questions as well which is the fun of it.

Exactly. Just like how Bond managed to wash up on shore after getting shot off of the bridge: I answered this after someone else questioned it many pages back, telling them that I just made up an answer for myself.

Tuulia

Creasy47 wrote:

Sharky wrote:

I think that Silva had many contingency plans and had many things in place to keep him one step ahead. If you think about the Bond plots on many of the films you could most likely undo many if not all of them but i think you can also come up with many answers to your own questions as well which is the fun of it.

Exactly. Just like how Bond managed to wash up on shore after getting shot off of the bridge: I answered this after someone else questioned it many pages back, telling them that I just made up an answer for myself.

I agree with both of you.

Oh and Bond gets help - that hand that grabs his clearly indicates this - he doesn't just wash up on shore... though that would also work, of course, such things actually happen... but he does get help to get out of water (as well as after that, of course - no need to show everything).

jackdagger

Tuulia wrote:

Oh and Bond gets help - that hand that grabs his clearly indicates this - he doesn't just wash up on shore... though that would also work, of course, such things actually happen... but he does get help to get out of water (as well as after that, of course - no need to show everything).

Not necessarily though, it's just another thing you get to decide for yourself. :) Was the hand real? Or was it part of the title sequence/Bond's dream? I personally think it was the latter- after all, the hand is dragging him down, not up.

Tuulia

Not the hand of the title sequence that is big compared to Bond and is dragging him down by his foot - that's not real. I mean the one a moment earlier that grabs his hand and is normal size compared to him - it would take me some imagining that one is not real. :)

JWESTBROOK

Tuulia wrote:

Not the hand of the title sequence that is big compared to Bond and is dragging him down, I mean the one a moment earlier that grabs his hand and is normal size compared to him.

Right, one of the first cuts is to a normal sized hand grabbing his arm and pulling, and then the big hand drags him down. That was the switch from reality to title-sequence.

Tuulia

Exactly.