Too much CGI in Skyfall ? Or just Obvious CGI that wasn't needed ?

1678911

Comments

  • GamesBond007GamesBond007 Golden Grotto
    Posts: 66
    @RC7 When Bond jumps to catch and hang from the lift. He looks like rubber, the lighting and weight just look off.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    @RC7 When Bond jumps to catch and hang from the lift. He looks like rubber, the lighting and weight just look off.

    I personally dislike the main establishing shot of the approach to Silva's HQ (on land) there's something slightly off with the motion and colour.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    @RC7 When Bond jumps to catch and hang from the lift. He looks like rubber, the lighting and weight just look off.

    I'm pretty sure that was done for real, but the film cuts right after to end the stunt.
  • edited March 2017 Posts: 6,844
    patb wrote: »
    THe CGI test is very easy and applied to all movies. Does it take me out of the film? If the scene is so gripping re the suspense, plot, character etc, the you can overlook some CGI. The brain cant scan for CGI whilst actively immersed in the movie. Unless the CGI is so poor and "in your face" that you just cant help but notice. I dont think there is anything in SF that is too bad and it did not put mainstream punters off (unlike other Bond movies),

    Absolutely. And we all evidently notice CGI differently and have different reactions to the CGI we notice. For me, the pasted-on faces during the PTS took me right out of the film the first time I saw Skyfall in theaters. However since then, perhaps because I was expecting it to be so bad upon rewatch, they really don't seem too bad to me. But Silva's collapsing face in close-up when he takes out his dentures has never looked good and every time I see the film, during that moment all I'm thinking is 'CGI...CGI...CGI...Gollum...CGI'

    I should also mention that the elevator scene never looked off to me, but that, while I've managed to reach a point where I'm able to more or less enjoy the scene for what it is, the komodo dragons have always looked profoundly CGI-ish. Pretty good CGI, I'll admit, but they are nonetheless very obviously digital creations and they spend a good long amount of time onscreen interacting with Bond. So length of time onscreen is definitely a factor as well.
  • JamesBondKenyaJamesBondKenya Danny Boyle laughs to himself
    edited March 2017 Posts: 2,730
    Especially since it was unneeded
    Don't need the cgi bike stuff
    Don't need the cgi island
    Don't need the cgi scorpion
    Don't need the cgi Komodo dragon
    Don't need the cgi face Silvia gollum
    Don't need the cgi elevator
    And my least favorite- you don't need cgi helicopters!!!!
  • GamesBond007GamesBond007 Golden Grotto
    Posts: 66
    @0BradyM0Bondfanatic7 I think the initial jump is done for real but once the lift gets some height Bond just looks like rubber. Either part of the shaft is CG (which would explain the odd lighting) or Bond himself becomes CG. Either way something gives Bond a rubbery look that always reminds me of DAD windsurfing.
  • PropertyOfALadyPropertyOfALady Colders Federation CEO
    Posts: 3,675
    Don't need the cgi face Silvia golly my thing. What? :D
  • Especially since it was unneeded
    Don't need the cgi bike stuff
    Don't need the cgi island
    Don't need the cgi scorpion
    Don't need the cgi Komodo dragon
    Don't need the cgi face Silvia golly my thing
    Don't need the cgi elevator
    And my least favorite- you don't need cgi helicopters!!!!

    That's why they're planning ahead for the next one. ;)
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Especially since it was unneeded
    Don't need the cgi bike stuff
    Don't need the cgi island
    Don't need the cgi scorpion
    Don't need the cgi Komodo dragon
    Don't need the cgi face Silvia golly my thing
    Don't need the cgi elevator
    And my least favorite- you don't need cgi helicopters!!!!

    Did you want Daniel to get stung by a scorpion?! Explain that one to his publicist.

    "Wait, catch me up on this. Why is Daniel having a real scorpion put on him?"

    "Well you see, computer effects are costly and we can't risk the budget on it. We also want it to look super real. We got a bloke on set from the London zoo who brought one in special for us. It's tamed, trained, SUPER safe."

    "What if it bites him?!"

    "Like I said, SUPER safe."
  • JamesBondKenyaJamesBondKenya Danny Boyle laughs to himself
    Posts: 2,730
    Especially since it was unneeded
    Don't need the cgi bike stuff
    Don't need the cgi island
    Don't need the cgi scorpion
    Don't need the cgi Komodo dragon
    Don't need the cgi face Silvia golly my thing
    Don't need the cgi elevator
    And my least favorite- you don't need cgi helicopters!!!!

    Did you want Daniel to get stung by a scorpion?! Explain that one to his publicist.

    "Wait, catch me up on this. Why is Daniel having a real scorpion put on him?"

    "Well you see, computer effects are costly and we can't risk the budget on it. We also want it to look super real. We got a bloke on set from the London zoo who brought one in special for us. It's tamed, trained, SUPER safe."

    "What if it bites him?!"

    "Like I said, SUPER safe."

    Put Craig against a wall and then put a glass pane against him and then put the scorpion on the glass oh wait
  • PropertyOfALadyPropertyOfALady Colders Federation CEO
    Posts: 3,675
    Especially since it was unneeded
    Don't need the cgi bike stuff
    Don't need the cgi island
    Don't need the cgi scorpion
    Don't need the cgi Komodo dragon
    Don't need the cgi face Silvia golly my thing
    Don't need the cgi elevator
    And my least favorite- you don't need cgi helicopters!!!!

    Did you want Daniel to get stung by a scorpion?! Explain that one to his publicist.

    "Wait, catch me up on this. Why is Daniel having a real scorpion put on him?"

    "Well you see, computer effects are costly and we can't risk the budget on it. We also want it to look super real. We got a bloke on set from the London zoo who brought one in special for us. It's tamed, trained, SUPER safe."

    "What if it bites him?!"

    "Like I said, SUPER safe."

    I'm sorry Brady. You're hilarious! So great. I can see that conversation.
  • edited March 2017 Posts: 676
    I did notice the CGI island and helicopters on my first watch. But the only CGI that really bothered me was Bond leaping onto the back of a komodo dragon. That looked rubbery and fake. Made worse by the fact it was meant as an homage to the for-real crocodile stunt in LALD.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,976
    Milovy wrote: »
    I did notice the CGI island and helicopters on my first watch. But the only CGI that really bothered me was Bond leaping onto the back of a komodo dragon. That looked rubbery and fake. Made worse by the fact it was meant as an homage to the for-real crocodile stunt in LALD.

    That's exactly why they should focus on writing practical stunts, instead of coming up with some bizarre, off-the-wall idea that'll require CGI for some reason.
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 8,216
    I loved the Komodo sequence; It harkened back to Bond's pulp roots and added to the exotic atmosphere of the casino sequence.
  • Posts: 19,339
    Do we know that Bond jumping onto the kamodo was a homage to LALD ,or is this surmised ?
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    Milovy wrote: »
    I did notice the CGI island and helicopters on my first watch. But the only CGI that really bothered me was Bond leaping onto the back of a komodo dragon. That looked rubbery and fake. Made worse by the fact it was meant as an homage to the for-real crocodile stunt in LALD.

    That's exactly why they should focus on writing practical stunts, instead of coming up with some bizarre, off-the-wall idea that'll require CGI for some reason.

    They still do that though. The SF motorcycle chase and everything else, including the crane and all the PTS was done for real, and had Dan in most of it. In SP the same is true with the turning helicopter and plane.

    It's just that CGI is used at minor moments to make audiences think that Dan is doing the more dangerous stunts, or the effects are in place of the green screen with him in a cabin to simulate that he's there. So really what what you should be asking for EON to stop are CGI replacements. The stunts are real, all they do is layer effects.
  • Jazz007Jazz007 Minnesota
    edited March 2017 Posts: 257
    barryt007 wrote: »
    Do we know that Bond jumping onto the kamodo was a homage to LALD ,or is this surmised ?

    Seems quite apparent on the face of it - but Craig and Mendes have also been on record as having high praise for and inspiration from LALD.
  • edited March 2017 Posts: 6,844
    Jazz007 wrote: »
    barryt007 wrote: »
    Do we know that Bond jumping onto the kamodo was a homage to LALD ,or is this surmised ?

    Seems quite apparent on the face of it - but Craig and Mendes have also been on record as having high praise for and inspiration from LALD.

    Yes, and the L&LD homages extend to the film's skull imagery and SP's Day of the Dead parade as well. Jumping off the reptile's back was as plainly an homage as the shoe knife and the Acrostar in Q's lab in Die Another Day.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Jazz007 wrote: »
    barryt007 wrote: »
    Do we know that Bond jumping onto the kamodo was a homage to LALD ,or is this surmised ?

    Seems quite apparent on the face of it - but Craig and Mendes have also been on record as having high praise for and inspiration from LALD.

    LALD was the first Bond film Dan and Sam ever saw as kids, so it's special to both.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,976
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    Milovy wrote: »
    I did notice the CGI island and helicopters on my first watch. But the only CGI that really bothered me was Bond leaping onto the back of a komodo dragon. That looked rubbery and fake. Made worse by the fact it was meant as an homage to the for-real crocodile stunt in LALD.

    That's exactly why they should focus on writing practical stunts, instead of coming up with some bizarre, off-the-wall idea that'll require CGI for some reason.

    They still do that though. The SF motorcycle chase and everything else, including the crane and all the PTS was done for real, and had Dan in most of it. In SP the same is true with the turning helicopter and plane.

    It's just that CGI is used at minor moments to make audiences think that Dan is doing the more dangerous stunts, or the effects are in place of the green screen with him in a cabin to simulate that he's there. So really what what you should be asking for EON to stop are CGI replacements. The stunts are real, all they do is layer effects.

    Caking Bond/Patrice's face onto the stuntman's bodies through that green screen usage in SF is not my idea of being "done for real." Just cut out and show the stuntmen doing what they do best.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    Milovy wrote: »
    I did notice the CGI island and helicopters on my first watch. But the only CGI that really bothered me was Bond leaping onto the back of a komodo dragon. That looked rubbery and fake. Made worse by the fact it was meant as an homage to the for-real crocodile stunt in LALD.

    That's exactly why they should focus on writing practical stunts, instead of coming up with some bizarre, off-the-wall idea that'll require CGI for some reason.

    They still do that though. The SF motorcycle chase and everything else, including the crane and all the PTS was done for real, and had Dan in most of it. In SP the same is true with the turning helicopter and plane.

    It's just that CGI is used at minor moments to make audiences think that Dan is doing the more dangerous stunts, or the effects are in place of the green screen with him in a cabin to simulate that he's there. So really what what you should be asking for EON to stop are CGI replacements. The stunts are real, all they do is layer effects.

    Caking Bond/Patrice's face onto the stuntman's bodies through that green screen usage in SF is not my idea of being "done for real." Just cut out and show the stuntmen doing what they do best.

    The actual stunt is real in every case, though; the fighting, driving, explosions, all of it is real. Minor effects are added, yes, but what you see was done with real stunt people and not computer models. The 60s movies had this same hurdle to jump through with back projection and what I view as an overuse of it, so Bond has never been perfect in the effects department and where EON choose to use them.

    I think EON could actually-and should-use effects for some things. People complain about the bloated SP budget, but everything, even that massive explosion near the end, was real. What we need to fight for is the use of real stunt work for the action that matters, but effects only for things like explosions. The production burned money on that stupid explosion just so they could do it for real and get an award, and that is not a wise use of funds. They could've done a small scale model explosion (they have a great model team, after all) and spent a fraction of what they did on all the explosive material they needed to rig up that massive area.

    Sometimes doing it for real makes no logical-or in this case, financial-sense.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,976
    I understand that, but that's not the issue that I have.

    Spending however much they spent on one large explosion might not be a sound idea given the massive budget, but neither is spending the amount they put into that Rome car chase. The kicker is that at the end of the day, even after the $30 million plus, they STILL used a cartoon-looking CG Hinx in a particular moment. For a movie that cost over $300 million, it sure doesn't show it on screen as well as it could have.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    I understand that, but that's not the issue that I have.

    Spending however much they spent on one large explosion might not be a sound idea given the massive budget, but neither is spending the amount they put into that Rome car chase. The kicker is that at the end of the day, even after the $30 million plus, they STILL used a cartoon-looking CG Hinx in a particular moment. For a movie that cost over $300 million, it sure doesn't show it on screen as well as it could have.

    But the car chase couldn't have been done any other way. They could've just done effects for all of it, but that's not the Bond way with chases and they would at least be using their investment towards an actual sequence in the film that moves the story to another point.

    The explosion at Blofeld's HQ is seconds long, and could have been done with miniatures and minor effects, as it isn't important to anything. It has no function or salient reason to exist other than for Mendes to jump up and down with his Guinness award and say, "It was real, we did it for real!"
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,976
    It's more Mendes inconsistency. Could've used miniatures for the MI6 explosion, and he went with a CG explosion instead, which begs the question of why he didn't do it for Blofeld's base explosion, as well.

    As for the car chase, not sure what you mean by "but the car chase couldn't have been done any other way." Sure it could! For $30 million for ONE single chase, I expect something a bit more flavorful and fun than Bond casually talking to MP on the phone while Hinx is busy not being a danger in Bond's rearview mirror. There are moments throughout that are very beautiful to look at, but that's about all it has going for it. Surely they could've done so much more for such a hefty price tag.

    If, of course, they truly couldn't manage anything else due to the rarity of the cars, then perhaps they shouldn't have written it into the film in the first place, and gone with something that would've saved them $20 million, while simultaneously being even more exciting.
  • Posts: 19,339
    But to be fair ,they are caught between a rock and a hard place...they are damned if they do a real explosion,and damned if they use miniatures or CGI.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,976
    That's the case for literally anything, though: when they cast Craig, people were inevitably going to be upset. If they cast someone else, then someone else would've been upset. There's no proper way to please everyone, especially with a series that has lasted over 50 years. 'Bond 25' will inevitably release, and there will be a mixture, no matter how large of small, of those who hate it and those who love it, and those who are in the middle with it. It's inevitable.

    I prefer them trying to be as realistic with the action as they can, and by that I mean through the effects and what have you, but it all has to be consistent. I think if SP cost them $100 million to shoot, nobody would've cared about that explosion, but when you're boiling over a $300 million price tag, then something needs to go or be changed.

    Speaking of that explosion, do we know just how much it cost? I've heard people complain about the price tag of it, but can't say I concretely know what it was.
  • Posts: 19,339
    SP was an expensive let-down @creasy47 for sure..i have heard the same about the explosion cost,but i dont have a figure amount.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,976
    I mean, it'd be one thing if the explosion cost several million dollars, but if they broke a record with a practical explosion that ran them $1 million or less? It's not that big of a deal to me, especially taking into account how much everything else in the film ran them.
  • Posts: 19,339
    It is a damned good explosion,but,in my opinion,it should have been saved for the end of the film and ,if Bond went back to London ,then there would be a short battle of some kind and Vauxhall Cross would still be there and Blofeld would have escaped.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    It's more Mendes inconsistency. Could've used miniatures for the MI6 explosion, and he went with a CG explosion instead, which begs the question of why he didn't do it for Blofeld's base explosion, as well.

    As for the car chase, not sure what you mean by "but the car chase couldn't have been done any other way." Sure it could! For $30 million for ONE single chase, I expect something a bit more flavorful and fun than Bond casually talking to MP on the phone while Hinx is busy not being a danger in Bond's rearview mirror. There are moments throughout that are very beautiful to look at, but that's about all it has going for it. Surely they could've done so much more for such a hefty price tag.

    If, of course, they truly couldn't manage anything else due to the rarity of the cars, then perhaps they shouldn't have written it into the film in the first place, and gone with something that would've saved them $20 million, while simultaneously being even more exciting.

    Not what I meant. I meant that it made more sense to use real cars than stage it all with computer models in post. How the cars were used doesn't come into it at that stage of thinking.
Sign In or Register to comment.