Kingsman: The Great Game (2019)

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  • TigerTanakaTigerTanaka Welcome to Japan, Mr. Bond
    edited March 2015 Posts: 50
    If you saw Kingsman and loved it...then good for you! You got your money's worth.
    I didn't.
    I get it--it's a love letter to the Moore Bond films. But I'd rather watch the real thing.
  • edited March 2015 Posts: 11,119
    If you saw Kingsman and loved it...then good for you! You got your money's worth.
    I didn't.
    I get it--it's a love letter to the Moore Bond films. But I'd rather watch the real thing.

    I think "Kingsman" basically is a near-perfect concoction of several elements from other (franchise) films:

    --> Movie spoofs (from whatever kind of franchise, James Bond included): The lairs from the villain's for example, the completely unbelievable big tunnel all these luxury jets had to fly into, or how the actual villainous schemes are executed (
    the exploding heads forming the most beautiful, and ridiculous flower-power-esque patterns
    ), reminds me a lot of "Austin Powers" and the 1967 spoof of Austin Powers. It's even more ridiculous than the most ridiculous Bond film.
    --> Tarantino: The violence in the movies is very Tarantino-esque.
    Just slicing people in half for instance
    , has been done on numerous occasions in "Kill Bill". Or what about the church scene. That's very Tarantino esque.
    --> Marvel's comic book adaptations: I couldn't help but thinking of "X-Men: First Class". Both the X-Men and the Kingsmen have these near-ridiculous training facilities (Nobody cares about how these underground tubes have been created in the first place. We destroy "Skyfall" for that kind of unexplained elements, but not "Kingsman"). Also the fight sequences ooze a huge dosis of "Marvel" for me at times.
    --> "The Matrix": Once introduced in "The Matrix", slow-mo fight sequences still carry a certain cool vibe with them. Seeing Kingsman Harry Hart walking on walls or ceilings, or seeing guys rolling over as if they were feathers, by simply throwing a beer glass at their skulls, is off course ridiculous, but it works in "Kingsman". And it worked in many other sci-fi movies.
    --> Some realism from Matthew Vaughn's previous films: IMO the world-threatening scheme from Valentine worked, because in essence the way both Eggsy and Valentine talked, their use of slang and dialect, gave the characters a bit of realism. They start off as quite ordinary guys with any lack of gentleman-esque element. That makes one believe in the characters.
    --> "James Bond": I actually felt so good, so....heart-warmed about all the James Bond references :-). It really gave me a smile. It's what I liked about "Kingsman". The wunderful lush locations, the gadgets (Harry Hart explaining the gadgets in a Q-esque facility), the exquisit eye for detail with regard to clothes and food (with a McDonalds twist), a remote controlled taxi cab ("TND"),
    the shocking assasination of Harry Hart by Valentine
    (a 200% reference to "Skyfall", in which Silva kills off Severine, or to "OHMSS" in which Bunt kills of Tracy) and a reference to a 1962 brandy no less (the year the first Bond film "DN" was produced)! Absolutely wunderful! It shows that Matthew Vaugh is as much of a Bond-nerd as all of us in here. And apparently he also loves the more "serious" Bond films. For me it only makes the road towards "SPECTRE" even more pleasant and enjoyable ;-).

    All the above references were turned into a near-perfect cocktail that, and I want to stress this, can only work for a Kingsman-movie. This formula, invented by Matthew Vaugh, can not be used for a template for a future Bond film. This movie gives Fox Pictures their own new franchise. Fox can create their own franchise out of this. IF they do it properly off course.

    Because I do think this movie was created by having in mind two options: A) The first film of an entire franchise, or B) really a one-off film. I'm saying that, because I perhaps would have kept the character of Harry Hart (Colin Firth) for more movies to come. To kill off an entire range of characters, played by acting heavy-weights, like Colin Firth, Michael Caine and Samuel L. Jackson, shows that they used these characters and their deaths as a highlight for only one film.

    Personally I would have let Harry Hart live and turn him into the new head of the Kingsman Secret Service. Because now.....how would a 2nd Kingsman film become succesful? I don't think Taron Egerton can't pull off a 2nd film in which he's the true leading character.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    Personally I would have let Harry Hart live and turn him into the new head of the Kingsman Secret Service. Because now.....how would a 2nd Kingsman film become succesful? I don't think Taron Egerton can't pull off a 2nd film in which he's the true leading character.

    While I agree with you, I think they knew the risks when they did this. I'm sure they have a trick or two up their sleeves when (and I'm sure it will be a when) they make part 2. Perhaps Sir Connery, Moore or even Dalton can make an appearance? :)
  • edited March 2015 Posts: 12,837
    I'd spoiler tag that for those who haven't seen it yet @Gustav.

    I don't see why Taron Egerton can't carry the sequel on his own. Most people seem to agree he did a great job and he carried a lot of the movie on his own (Firth was absent for all the training bits and the finale). The next film will be successful because of the Kingsman name. They've used the big names to sell the first one, now it's a hit and people will probably go and see the sequel regardless.

    And he already is the "true leading character". Harry Hart is the cool gentleman spy who introduces Eggsy to the Kingsmen. Eggsy is the three dimensional character who develops over time, Eggsy is the character who has a backstory. We see his family, his mates, what sort of person he is, and he's the character that drives the plot forward. Eggsy was the main character, not Harry. That's not to say Harry wasn't great (Colin Firth was a fucking badass in this film, he did a fantastic job) but Eggsy is the main character. Harry Hart was a badass gentleman spy and... that's it. That's all we really know about him. Eggsy was the main character.

    And while I agree on the references, I think you're wrong when you say
    Harry's death was "200%" a reference to Severine's death Skyfall. I really doubt it. The villain shot someone in the head, that happens in loads of films, and the scenes aren't remotely similar.

    I don't think that they lost much by
    killing off Micheal Caine
    either. I love the bloke but the role could've been played by anyone. I assume that Mark Strong will be head of the UK Kingsmen if there's a sequel, which I'm fine with. He was great and made much more of an impression than Caine's character.

  • Posts: 11,119
    It's also a matter of interpretation. I thought "Kingsman" had also pretty much serious moments. Eggsy's family situations for instance. But really,
    the death of Harry Hart was quite a big impact, and it left Eggsy begutted, full of revenge. Similar to some "unexpected" deaths from beloved Bond characters, like M, Tracy, Vesper, Severine.
    . That's how it felt for me. So wrong or right is entirely subjective.
  • TigerTanakaTigerTanaka Welcome to Japan, Mr. Bond
    edited March 2015 Posts: 50
    reminds me a lot of "Austin Powers" and the 1967 spoof of Austin Powers. It's even more ridiculous than the most ridiculous Bond film.
    You hit the nail right on the head. That's exactly how I felt after. One second it's a cartoon show, the next second it's extreme violence. So when they say "this is not that kind of movie" then what movie is it? The movie actually made me want to watch the edgy seriousness of the Craig Bond films again (please eon, release a SPECTRE teaser soon!).

    I'm not sure how they're going to pull off the sequel...even Austin Powers ran out of steam by the time goldmember came out. Maybe that's the problem with movies that rely way too much on the nostalgia/reference factor? This is all just my humble opinion :)
  • Posts: 2,491
    reminds me a lot of "Austin Powers" and the 1967 spoof of Austin Powers. It's even more ridiculous than the most ridiculous Bond film.
    You hit the nail right on the head. That's exactly how I felt after. One second it's a cartoon show, the next second it's extreme violence. So when they say "this is not that kind of movie" then what movie is it? The movie actually made me want to watch the edgy seriousness of the Craig Bond films again (please eon, release a SPECTRE teaser soon!).
    Well basically Kingsman is over the top action movie. James Bond on LSD would be the perfect explanation IMHO.


    I kind of agree with Gustav_Graves that this movie is what Tarantino Bond movie might look like minus the humour of course.

    I too don't know how they would pull of a sequel, and even if I would like to see a sequel, I am perfectly fine with this being a one-off movie.
  • Posts: 1,859
    What about the the huge homages to "The Man from U.N.C.L.E.". Also it's much more of a modernized Derek Flint film than a James Bond film.

  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    Firth is great in this film. But overall it is a poor film. The villans are awful and the scipt isn't funny bar about 5 or so one liners.
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    edited March 2015 Posts: 8,253
    dragonsky wrote: »
    reminds me a lot of "Austin Powers" and the 1967 spoof of Austin Powers. It's even more ridiculous than the most ridiculous Bond film.
    You hit the nail right on the head. That's exactly how I felt after. One second it's a cartoon show, the next second it's extreme violence. So when they say "this is not that kind of movie" then what movie is it? The movie actually made me want to watch the edgy seriousness of the Craig Bond films again (please eon, release a SPECTRE teaser soon!).
    Well basically Kingsman is over the top action movie. James Bond on LSD would be the perfect explanation IMHO.


    I kind of agree with Gustav_Graves that this movie is what Tarantino Bond movie might look like minus the humour of course.

    I too don't know how they would pull of a sequel, and even if I would like to see a sequel, I am perfectly fine with this being a one-off movie.
    James Bond on LSD isn't new either, CR 67 did that as badly as could''ve been. And if this was Tarantino's take on Bond, then thank the-none-existent for him not getting a shot at it. He's just a hughely overpayed fanboy who happens to have made one classic.

    I completely concur with @Tiger. Put it this way: @DoubleOhNothing once, on the old boards stated that films create their own reality and rules to that reality. DAD is an example of Bond going off of that mark. Invisible cars do not belong in Bonds universe. In X-men you will see special powers, you won't see any ghosts, etc.

    In Kingsman they take it all too far imo. You're either serious or not.
    The exploding heads may have meant funny, the worldwide slaughter that follows is not.
    It just doesn't belong in the same film. And indeed, I did like a lot of the soundtrack, but again it misses the mark by a longshot now and then too. I just can't see the humour
    in mass murder
    I guess.
  • edited March 2015 Posts: 11,119
    dragonsky wrote: »
    reminds me a lot of "Austin Powers" and the 1967 spoof of Austin Powers. It's even more ridiculous than the most ridiculous Bond film.
    You hit the nail right on the head. That's exactly how I felt after. One second it's a cartoon show, the next second it's extreme violence. So when they say "this is not that kind of movie" then what movie is it? The movie actually made me want to watch the edgy seriousness of the Craig Bond films again (please eon, release a SPECTRE teaser soon!).
    Well basically Kingsman is over the top action movie. James Bond on LSD would be the perfect explanation IMHO.


    I kind of agree with Gustav_Graves that this movie is what Tarantino Bond movie might look like minus the humour of course.

    I too don't know how they would pull of a sequel, and even if I would like to see a sequel, I am perfectly fine with this being a one-off movie.
    James Bond on LSD isn't new either, CR 67 did that as badly as could''ve been. And if this was Tarantino's take on Bond, then thank the-none-existent for him not getting a shot at it. He's just a hughely overpayed fanboy who happens to have made one classic.

    I completely concur with @Tiger. Put it this way: @DoubleOhNothing once, on the old boards stated that films create their own reality and rules to that reality. DAD is an example of Bond going off of that mark. Invisible cars do not belong in Bonds universe. In X-men you will see special powers, you won't see any ghosts, etc.

    In Kingsman they take it all too far imo. You're either serious or not.
    The exploding heads may have meant funny, the worldwide slaughter that follows is not.
    It just doesn't belong in the same film. And indeed, I did like a lot of the soundtrack, but again it misses the mark by a longshot now and then too. I just can't see the humour
    in mass murder
    I guess.

    I disagree. Like I said, you should not too much "think" in terms of a Bond film or a Tarantino film or a Marvel film. What Matthew Vaughn did was creating his very own kind of universe, that IMO is quite a good effort. See it, like I said in the previous page, as a skillful cocktail of elements blended in the one and only Kingsman-universe. I never felt irritations or whatsoever. It actually creates quite a good shock moment when
    secret Kingsman agent does a bit of Bond, gets sliced in half, and then suddenly Valentine is there with a witty remark
    . For me that worked. But can only work in a Kingsman-movie.

    I think we're judging "Kingsman The Secret Service" way too much from the perspective of a Bond fan. I think one should try and judge this films as if there were no Bond films at all, as if you are a true Kingsman-fan. By doing so, you can actually feel more heartwarmed about all the James Bond references :-).
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited March 2015 Posts: 23,883
    I agree. It was its own universe. A somewhat uncomfortable one (because one did not really know what to expect, and perhaps some elements were a little jarring) but nevertheless an entertaining one.

    It was not quite what I thought it would be. I'm also not quite sure how to classify it genre wise. I agree and have also noted earlier that I see early Tarantino'esque elements here. All the elements did not come together quite as well as Tarantino himself would have done it imho, but it was an interesting take on the spy universe, if nothing else.

    The score, on the other hand, was a true marvel. Thomas Newman has a lot to surpass this year with SP based on just this score alone (who knows what greatness Man from UNCLE and MI5 have for us). Can't wait!
  • edited March 2015 Posts: 11,119
    bondjames wrote: »
    I agree. It was its own universe. A somewhat uncomfortable one (because one did not really know what to expect, and perhaps some elements were a little jarring) but nevertheless an entertaining one.

    It was not quite what I thought it would be. I'm also not quite sure how to classify it genre wise. I agree and have also noted earlier that I see early Tarantino'esque elements here. All the elements did not come together quite as well as Tarantino himself would have done it imho, but it was an interesting take on the spy universe, if nothing else.

    The score, on the other hand, was a true marvel. Thomas Newman has a lot to surpass this year with SP based on just this score alone (who knows what greatness Man from UNCLE and MI5 have for us). Can't wait!

    I was saying this earlier today to a friend of mine:
    And "Kingsman": A near perfect cocktail of: 30% James Bond (the references alone made me smile :-), there was even a 1962 brandy in it! We Bond fans know that year!), 25% Marvel-esque comic flair (especially X-Men), 20% Movie spoofs ('67 Casino Royale, Austin Powers), 15% Tarantino-esque violence, 10% Matrix-esque Sci-fi (fight scenes). A concoction that ONLY works now for future Kingsman films. A new wunderful franchise is born. And by jolly, I left the cinema with a smile. It feels good if a director like Matthew Vaughn had so much respect for every aspect of the Bond films. Even the serious ones. The death of Harry Hart had similar emotional resonance as other shocker deaths in Bond films (Tracy, M, Vesper, Severine).
  • TigerTanakaTigerTanaka Welcome to Japan, Mr. Bond
    edited March 2015 Posts: 50
    @Gustav_Graves True. But it is rather difficult not to judge Kingsman from the perspective of a Bond fan, since the film is built mostly on the knowledge that you do have an idea of what a bond film is. Also, you need that knowledge for the winks and the jokes to work too. It's a natural reaction to compare this film from the one it is paying homage to. Well, I guess I went and saw the film with this kind of mindset which is probably the reason why no matter how many cool FX or stunts or witty references were thrown, it just didn't have any effect on me that much. The bond image was just too strong to leave at the door I guess :)

  • Posts: 11,119
    @Gustav_Graves True. But it is rather difficult not to judge Kingsman from the perspective of a Bond fan, since the film is built mostly on the knowledge that you do have an idea of what a bond film is. Also, you need that knowledge for the winks and the jokes to work too. It's a natural reaction to compare this film from the one it is paying homage to. Well, I guess I went and saw the film with this kind of mindset which is probably the reason why no matter how many cool FX or stunts or witty references were thrown, it just didn't have any effect on me that much. The bond image was just too strong to leave at the door I guess :)

    One question I have for you though. Did the movie not put a smile on your face? In all honesty, when I saw the film here in Barcelona, the cinema was in complete laughter! Perhaps that made me laugh to. But for me personally it was just great fun to discover all these Bond references :-).

    And not only that. If you have checked some interviews with Colin Firth and director Matthew Vaughn, it leaves me heart-warmed to know that Matthew Vaughn is in essence no different from Sam Mendes: Both are extremely nerdy and geeky, like all of us in here. Both of them are most definitely Bond fans ;-).

    After I left the cinema I had two thoughts. One was this: So wonderful that Bond has inspired Matthew Vaughn and a comic book to come up with this entirely new franchise. A franchise, like I said, that has created this wonderful unique Kingsman universe. The second was this: I am so frikkin' proud to be a Bond fan these days. It shows what recent Bond films have done, not only in the past, but also (especially) the past decade with Daniel Craig. I love to see it like this: "godfather" franchise James Bond has created so many lovely "offspring", like Kingsman, but also The Man From UNCLE and Mission: Impossible. And obviously the "godfather" and its "offspring" love each other immensely. I know it when I hear Matthew Vaughn talking. I am an immensely proud nerdy geeky James Bond fan ;-). And I'm listening to the track "Finale" from Kingsman while I type this ;-).

    Let's hope 20th Century Fox continues Kingsman with a 2nd film.
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    Unfortunately, being an avid Bond fan is the reason I didn't like Kingsman. The only aspects I liked were Firth and his 'true brit' character. The film was supposed to be a black comedy but it wasn't very funny and some of the sets were more Thunderbirds than Bond. Vaughns only decent film is Layer Cake. If he ever directs a Bond, let's hope he stays away from the 'style' of Kingsman.
  • Posts: 1,859
    suavejmf wrote: »
    Unfortunately, being an avid Bond fan is the reason I didn't like Kingsman. The only aspects I liked were Firth and his 'true brit' character. The film was supposed to be a black comedy but it wasn't very funny and some of the sets were more Thunderbirds than Bond. Vaughns only decent film is Layer Cake. If he ever directs a Bond, let's hope he stays away from the 'style' of Kingsman.

    I take it you did not like the "Our Man Flint" films?
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,253
    @Gustav you've got me confused now. First you tell me not to see the film through the eyes of a Bond-fan (which I didn't, but I'll come to that later) and then you tell everyone how proud you are as a Bond fan to see this film.

    For me the Kingsman universe isn't consistent. First it's all comic-like, with those flowery head explosions as great example, then it's all serious with bloody fights and mothers going after their kids with knifes. Perhaps I just don't share the same sense of humour, but for me, as I said before, it was just too inconsistent.

    Kingsman isn't Bond (thankfully), and it isn't, say Austin Powers or Johnny English. It's something in between and on both sides at the same time. I hope it stays with a one-off.

    As for perception, I'll judge any film by it's own standards. I didn't measure Bourne up to Bond, nor the Untouchables to The Man Who Would Be King, etc, etc. As I said before, every film or frenchise creates it's own universe. Bond always stays the same age for example. Batman has technology that's perhaps possible in thirty year's time, whilst the Avengers is pure fantasy with superpowers, etc. But when that set of rules is set, it isn't broken. When it is (as it was with the Vanish in DAD), the film comes off as inconsistend and no fun anymore. And that's exactly what happened to Kingsman.
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    Kingsman isn't Bond (thankfully), and it isn't, say Austin Powers (amusing) or Johnny English (absolute crap). It's something in between and that's why it doesn't work.
  • M_BaljeM_Balje Amsterdam, Netherlands
    edited March 2015 Posts: 4,515
    Whyle Warner release the movie in the cinema like X-men Firstclass, Fox wil release Dutch DVD & BD release on 26 June 2015. After 3 weaks the movie deliever $1,864,386 and possible the total of movie wil deliever a bit les then The Bourne Legacy ($2,403,240) did in 2012. But of course movie is like Kickass rated 16+ (R-rated).

    Daredevil did did it very good on rental dvd's back in 2003, not a very good American and worldwide boxoffice. Kingsman possible wil do very well on celling dvd's/BD and soon will have worldwide boxoffice twice as money as Daredevil. Total count of Daredevil (Budget 78 million) in 2003 was around 180 million, Kingsman (Budget: 81 million) on this moment around 223 million. Total X-men Firstclass be Vaughn his biggest movie, in The Netherlands it is Kingsman, becauxe X-men first class flops with 1,1 million. I think a sequel wil deliever more money, inspecialy if he returns.
  • edited March 2015 Posts: 11,119
    Good news for "Kingsman: The Secret Service". It seems very good word-of-mouth is helping the film at the box office. Because of that it has strong holdover/longevity at the worldwide box office. The figures so far:

    Domestic: $98,028,000 39.5%
    + Foreign: $150,315,000 60.5%
    = Worldwide: $248,343,000

    More good Korean box office news from Deadline.com:
    Fox’s Kingsman: The Secret Service saw an incredible 86% jump over its opening weekend with an $8.86M take. The cume there is now $17.8M, making Korea the film’s 2nd best offshore market behind the UK. It’s also become the top R-rated import ever, bigger than all Bond and Bourne titles.

    In expansions, Kingsman: The Secret Service, which is burning up the box office in Korea, will point its umbrella in the direction of Brazil before heading to Germany on March 12 and China on March 27. The dapper action/adventure pic currently has about $125M in overseas receipts and looks like it will pick up another $100M during its release.

    So the R-rated film is greenlit in China for a March 27 release. My prediction of nearing the $500,000,000 mark worldwide is in contention :-). Fox will most certainly kick-off a franchise now... They have found it; They found their "Bond" ;-).
  • Posts: 11,119
    I'm ally happy for director Matthew Vaughn and 20th Century Fox that this "gamble" paid off. It is now officially a box office success :-). Spy movies are HOT again ;-)!
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    Ok returns for a crap film. Bear in mind the budget was £81m.
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    250million with an 80million budget is more than just an ok return, irrespective of its classification.
  • Posts: 11,119
    doubleoego wrote: »
    250million with an 80million budget is more than just an ok return, irrespective of its classification.

    Expect a certain $400 Million worldwide now. It still needs to open in big markets like China, Brazil and Germany.

    Moreover, it seems that the Chinese don't care if the movie is a "top" or a "flop" in the USA. "Jupiter Ascending" is a big flop so far, but, again, NOT in China. Mark my words, China will show all of us this year that its market has now become bigger than the US market. Financially at least.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    Kingsman is the kind of movie that will do well in China imho. If not for the possibility at this late stage of piracy, it should have a big gross in China.
  • marketto007marketto007 Brazil
    Posts: 3,277
    I finally watched the movie on saturday, and although the villain's plot is very weak, the action scenes are great. It's a fun movie to sit back and relax, it's not to take it seriously. Can't forget to mention Damien Walters cameo, who worked as a stunt in SKYFALL and also had a little cameo in the Enquiry sequence.
  • Posts: 11,119
    I'd say this is a credible prediction for "Kingsman" right now:

    -- $75 Million: China
    -- $50 Million: South-Korea (so far $25 Million)
    -- $28 Million: Brazil
    -- $24 Million: Mexico (so far $14 Million)
    -- $22 Million: Russia
    -- $18 Million: Germany

    -- "Kingsman" will at least cash $178 Million more. Which puts it north of $425 Million worldwide. But China can be so crazy. I would not be surprised if it will go towards $95 Million in China (around $450 Million worldwide).
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    doubleoego wrote: »
    250million with an 80million budget is more than just an ok return, irrespective of its classification.

    Expect a certain $400 Million worldwide now. It still needs to open in big markets like China, Brazil and Germany.

    Moreover, it seems that the Chinese don't care if the movie is a "top" or a "flop" in the USA. "Jupiter Ascending" is a big flop so far, but, again, NOT in China. Mark my words, China will show all of us this year that its market has now become bigger than the US market. Financially at least.

    That's not really a revelation. It's been common knowledge for some time.
  • SarkSark Guangdong, PRC
    Posts: 1,138
    Is it? I thought that last weekend was the first time ever that the China box office exceeded the US box office.
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