Kingsman: The Great Game (2019)

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Comments

  • Posts: 725
    I'm totally with @timmer on this. I found the film offensive on many fronts. The comment that American audiences and particularly critics might have been put off by the violence is not accurate. Mad Max was violent too, and also R rated, but it was brilliant and the violence was in no way shoved down the viewers throats. Yes, Vaughn is very talented, but it is a talent often badly served by a nasty, mean steak. He has a particularly nasty view of women, which is one reason why many female critics I noted on RT hated it as did the women in my family.
  • Posts: 3,327
    I think Kingsman is a great film. I really thought I wouldn't like it, expecting a Bond parody, Austin Powers style.

    But instead, bizarrely, I really found myself enjoying it. Loved Firth as the Bond-type spy, loved the darker edged London Harry Brown characters and scenes, great soundtrack, and thought Eggsy ended up pulling off the suave spy by the end of the movie. I'm looking forward to seeing a sequel, and to see how they manage to bring Firth back.

    And a superb end credit song by Take That.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited June 2015 Posts: 23,883
    I'm curious @smitty, what part was offensive with respect to women? I don't recall seeing anything that targeted women per se.

    I agree that the violence in Kingsman was unconventional and somewhat unexpected in parts, which made it rather uncomfortable to watch in places. That possibly put people off.

    At the end of the day, I think people went in with a certain expectation and came away confused, because the film straddles a few genres (pulp, spy, action, etc. etc.). It's difficult to categorize this film.
  • Posts: 725
    How about the ending, for starters. Unlike Mad Max which was a fun thread to post on, I've avoided this one because I seriously disliked this movie. I can appreciate the talent involved, but there is something really off to me about Vaughn.
  • Posts: 12,837
    smitty wrote: »
    He has a particularly nasty view of women

    I assume this is about the joke at the end? Kingsman was a film about taking the old Bond tropes and pushing them to the extreme. Bond always seems to end up in bed with the Bond girls with ridiculous ease, using nothing but a raised eyebrow and a clunky innuendo. Kingsman pushes that to the extreme by simply having the girl offer anal sex to Eggsy the moment she sets eyes on him.

    And none of the people criticizing the film for being sexist ever seem to mention Roxy, a strong female character (with fears and vulnerabilities, like a real person, strong female character doesn't mean perfect badass female character) who was critical in saving in the world at the end and who, in a refreshing change, wasn't a love interest. True, Layer Cake didn't really have any strong female characters I could think of, but Kick Ass had Hit Girl, a fleshed out three dimensional 11 year old girl who was actually more badass than the protagonist.
    smitty wrote: »
    Mad Max was violent too, and also R rated, but it was brilliant and the violence was in no way shoved down the viewers throats.

    What do you mean shoved down the viewers throats? It was violent sure but it was stylized, comic book, cartoony violence. Mad Max 4 had less blood splatters, etc, because it's a different sort of film. And I think Mad Max 4 was R rated more because of the disturbing imagery than the violence (eg-while not a violent scene, being captured by a group of psychos, branded trapped in a cage and used as a human blood bag is kinda horrifying).
    smitty wrote: »
    The comment that American audiences and particularly critics might have been put off by the violence is not accurate

    Well I'm assuming you're American and you seem pretty put off by the violence, and I didn't really notice any reviews complaining about the violence until it's US release (although actually it may have been released in other countries around that time too, I just noticed that there were a lot more complaints about that once it was released outside the UK).
  • Posts: 12,837
    smitty wrote: »
    He has a particularly nasty view of women

    I assume this is about the joke at the end? Kingsman was a film about taking the old Bond tropes and pushing them to the extreme. Bond always seems to end up in bed with the Bond girls with ridiculous ease, using nothing but a raised eyebrow and a clunky innuendo. Kingsman pushes that to the extreme by simply having the girl offer anal sex to Eggsy the moment she sets eyes on him.

    And none of the people criticizing the film for being sexist ever seem to mention Roxy, a strong female character (with fears and vulnerabilities, like a real person, strong female character doesn't mean perfect badass female character) who was critical in saving in the world at the end and who, in a refreshing change, wasn't a love interest. True, Layer Cake didn't really have any strong female characters I could think of, but Kick Ass had Hit Girl, a fleshed out three dimensional 11 year old girl who was actually more badass than the protagonist.
    smitty wrote: »
    Mad Max was violent too, and also R rated, but it was brilliant and the violence was in no way shoved down the viewers throats.

    What do you mean shoved down the viewers throats? It was violent sure but it was stylized, comic book, cartoony violence. Mad Max 4 had less blood splatters, etc, because it's a different sort of film. And I think Mad Max 4 was R rated more because of the disturbing imagery than the violence (eg-while not a violent scene, being captured by a group of psychos, branded trapped in a cage and used as a human blood bag is kinda horrifying).
    smitty wrote: »
    The comment that American audiences and particularly critics might have been put off by the violence is not accurate

    Well I'm assuming you're American and you seem pretty put off by the violence, and I didn't really notice any reviews complaining about the violence until it's US release (although actually it may have been released in other countries around that time too, I just noticed that there were a lot more complaints about that once it was released outside the UK).
  • Posts: 725
    I think the scene in the church was deeply offensive to me for a number of reasons, as I didn't buy the set up. There was just too much in the film that made me groan. Again, there was lots of talent on the screen. It was very clever, but it left me not happy to have seen it. I haven't posted on it, because I can see where the views on it are very far apart with most of the posters on the thread loving it, so I really can't add anything.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited June 2015 Posts: 23,883
    Gosh, I really forgot all about the offer of backdoor activities in Kingsman.....

    I'll admit that came out of left field - which goes to my point about this film shaking up all the Bond tropes - it was uncomfortable in some places because one never knew what to expect from it.
  • edited June 2015 Posts: 4,622
    This American versus England sensibilties is a red herring. I am Canadian. I have seen tons of British films. Brit culture is no mystery to me. We have lots of Brits here too.
    Bottom line is I found Kingsman to be a thorougly offputting film. I don't want to get too into it, as I am not invested in this "franchise"
    I will save heavy critiqe for something I care about.
    The OTT violence is a non-issue. We have all seen plenty of violent films. We have all seen Tarantino films etc. The Kingsman violence was cartoon violence. Not an issue really, at least not in a profound way. Rather I think it was overdone. ie too much, like being beat over the head.
    I found the movie to be offputting. Just badly put togehter. Like it was made by a bunch of bratty kids, trying to show off how edgy and daring they could be.
    Nothing interesting at all about the playing with Bond tropes IMO. For example, Firth getting blowing away by Sammy. Yawn. People have only been joking about Bond villains yammering on about their grand designs to Bond rather than simply putting a bullet in his head for maybe 40 odd years. Har har har.
    Only problem is that this Bond trope works way better than the unimaginitive send-up of it that we got in Kingsmen. The supervillians are ego maniacs. Lecturing Bond (worthy adversary) actually makes perfect sense in their deranged world, not to mention makes for more interesting filmmaking if the hero doesn't get blown away the first time the villain gets a bead on him. Lets just blow away the only interesting character in the film, so we can be all edgy like and send up Bond. Double yawn
    I could go on....just an awful pretentious stupid film....IMHO of course.
  • Posts: 12,837
    @timmer @smitty Fair enough, I see where you're both coming from.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    timmer wrote: »
    Lets just blow away the only interesting character in the film, so we can be all edgy like and send up Bond. Double yawn.

    @timmer, I agree on this point. Firth's character should not have been dispatched the way he was. Having said that, I felt similarly when Severine was surprisingly killed in SF and when Mathis was suddenly and unexpectedly killed in QoS.

    At the end of the day I thought it was a humorous take on the Bond universe and spy movies in general, although it certainly seemed unbalanced. I'm not all that excited about a sequel, but I'll probably watch it to see where they go with this.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    bondjames wrote: »
    timmer wrote: »
    Lets just blow away the only interesting character in the film, so we can be all edgy like and send up Bond. Double yawn.

    @timmer, I agree on this point. Firth's character should not have been dispatched the way he was. Having said that, I felt similarly when Severine was surprisingly killed in SF and when Mathis was suddenly and unexpectedly killed in QoS.

    At the end of the day I thought it was a humorous take on the Bond universe and spy movies in general, although it certainly seemed unbalanced. I'm not all that excited about a sequel, but I'll probably watch it to see where they go with this.

    Bumping a character in this way is classic Mark Millar, hence why it also happened in the film. It would be unexpected to cinema goers, but not comic book readers. A lot of his shtick is subverting or flipping tropes.
  • edited June 2015 Posts: 4,622
    To be clear, I don't begrudge anyone's enjoyment of this film. It did have some moments and I do like the genre, but this particular genre entry is not one that I enjoyed.
    It's really that simple. Preference.

    Its funny, that going in, I was actually kind of excited for this film, while @murdoch was ragging on it in advance.
    But post actual viewing, its Murdoch who is far kinder.
    Amazing what an actual viewing can do to expectations.
  • Posts: 11,119
    I think Kingsman is a great film. I really thought I wouldn't like it, expecting a Bond parody, Austin Powers style.

    But instead, bizarrely, I really found myself enjoying it. Loved Firth as the Bond-type spy, loved the darker edged London Harry Brown characters and scenes, great soundtrack, and thought Eggsy ended up pulling off the suave spy by the end of the movie. I'm looking forward to seeing a sequel, and to see how they manage to bring Firth back.

    And a superb end credit song by Take That.

    Same here. I liked it, especially on first viewing in cinema. It's a feast for Bond fans I think, they will see so many links to Bond films. But never in a conceited way.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    @thelivingroyale, I felt the movie was like Captain America as it starts out that the hero of the movie is a down on his luck guy who can't seem to get anywhere and that someone comes in to help him out. When Cap and Eggsy finally reach their potential their mentor's both die. And I found Valentine's base looked like Red Skull's Hydra Base. More or less. Plot wise they aren't too similar but some tropes here and settings looked similar.

    And yeah I should have waited to see the movie first before saying anything about it, but it's normal for people to pre judge stuff. It was a fun way to kill 2 hours after mowing the lawn and I had a couple chuckles here and there. Manly in the scenes between Firth and Jackson. His lisp was toned down in the final film than it was in the trailer. Which was another thing. The Trailer was really bad. It made it look like an Austin Powers clone. The More badass than Bond tagline did piss me off but in the final film Firth didn't say Bond movies were too serious like the trailer did, he said Spy movies in general.

    I watched the movie mainly because of Firth, Jackson and Caine. Who I all enjoyed. I really loved the Soundtrack. It's the kind of music Bond movies have been really missing. It's a decent movie and spy spoof. Been there done that sort of feeling. I'd give it a 6/10
  • PropertyOfALadyPropertyOfALady Colders Federation CEO
    Posts: 3,675
    Can you guys please stop arguing?
  • Posts: 12,837
    @Murdock I can see what you mean about the base (although I think in both films, the inspiration for the villains base was the old Ken Adams Bond sets) but the premise you described is a pretty common one in movies. In fact they say this in the film, comparing it to My Fair Lady, Trading Places, etc.
  • Posts: 11,119
    Just heard this bonus track from the extended soundtrack of "Kingsman: The Secret Service". It. Is. Absolutely. STUNNING! And it's tagged with "demo". Can't believe it :-O!!



    Barbara Broccoli and Michael Wilson have a big pool to fish in because of this year, "The Year Of The Spy" :-P.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Yet another FYEO poster ripoff? It never gets old, does it?
  • Posts: 11,119
    Yet another FYEO poster ripoff? It never gets old, does it?

    Did you actually listen to the track?
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    Here's my favorite Track.
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    Kingsman is my second favourite movie so far this year. My favourite by very, very, very, very far (we are talking lightyears here) is Mad Max Fury Road.

    Alone the sequence in the pub with Firth beating the s**t out of the cretins is worth the second place.
    Matthew Vaughn is now my favourite director.
    Layer Cake, Kick-Ass, X-Man First Class and Kingsman are all in my A-List of movies.
    I even liked Stardust a lot.
    A director with his first five movies not one being a miss is not that easy an achievement.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Yet another FYEO poster ripoff? It never gets old, does it?

    Did you actually listen to the track?

    Good track.
  • edited August 2015 Posts: 11,119
    Just hear this build-up. What a fantastic use of strings (cello, violins, alt-violins). You must have VERY good arms to do that. It all sounds so incredibly smooth and it builds up perfectly. Incorporating the actual movie theme as well. Also perfect use of electronic synthesizer sounds:



    If someone now says Joe Kraemer did a better job, then I have to fiercefully disagree. Together with Daniel Pemberton, Henry Jackman should...no, must be on the EON radar by now.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited August 2015 Posts: 23,883
    Jackman and Kramer are the standouts for me in 2015.

    I put Pemberton third, but only because of showboating with the Man From Uncle soundtrack, as I noted on that thread (he definitely has the talent).

    In fact, listening to this great music here has made me realize that I have not watched my Kingsman Blu Ray yet. It will go in the player either today or tomorrow...
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,968
    With the script in progress, creator Mark Millar discusses how a certain fan favorite will return (contains spoilers for those who haven't seen the first film):

    http://www.comicbookmovie.com/fansites/JoshWildingNewsAndReviews/news/?a=125392
  • TokolosheTokoloshe Under your bed
    Posts: 2,667
    Saw this film a few weeks ago after a long wait. Deeply disappointed with it. Ridiculous over the top action combined with poor humour. What a letdown!
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    They should make a prequel about Firth's character. Leave out Eggsy all together. I hated that character. (Not the actor.) Firth's character was my favorite and the reason I watche the movie.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    Murdock wrote: »
    They should make a prequel about Firth's character. Leave out Eggsy all together. I hated that character. (Not the actor.) Firth's character was my favorite and the reason I watche the movie.

    Great idea.

    Eggsy seemed more for the pimply crowd imho.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,968
    I went back and reread my earlier comments on how horrible I thought this looked, just for it to be one of the biggest surprises of the year for me.
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