create a Bond 24 plot

13

Comments

  • Posts: 686
    Dragonpol wrote:
    Perdogg wrote:
    Perdogg wrote:
    No one likes my idea of Alligator?

    You may want to rethink the title ;-)



    I had an idea for a plot soon after QoS. The film starts off with the systematic assassinations of all the Double 0 agents. Only Bond survives but is then set up as the patsy by both the British and American security services for the killings. The plot would have unravelled to find that the Director of the CIA and and The Minister of Defence were colluding together. Only M believes Bond wasn't responsible.

    I didn't get anyfurther with it as soon after SF was announced and the plot synopsis was kind of similar.

    @Drangonpol

    I like the idea that Bond works for the MoD. ^:)^

    Not surprising, really.

    Plus, you need to edit my name to @Dragonpol, @Perdogg!

    Corrected. Sorry about that
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,264
    Perdogg wrote:
    Dragonpol wrote:
    Perdogg wrote:
    Perdogg wrote:
    No one likes my idea of Alligator?

    You may want to rethink the title ;-)



    I had an idea for a plot soon after QoS. The film starts off with the systematic assassinations of all the Double 0 agents. Only Bond survives but is then set up as the patsy by both the British and American security services for the killings. The plot would have unravelled to find that the Director of the CIA and and The Minister of Defence were colluding together. Only M believes Bond wasn't responsible.

    I didn't get anyfurther with it as soon after SF was announced and the plot synopsis was kind of similar.

    @Drangonpol

    I like the idea that Bond works for the MoD. ^:)^

    Not surprising, really.

    Plus, you need to edit my name to @Dragonpol, @Perdogg!

    Corrected. Sorry about that

    No problem. Thanks. A lot of people seem to typo Dragonpol, though I suppose that it's pretty odd as a name. That's why I love it!
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    edited July 2013 Posts: 18,264
    Perdogg wrote:
    No one likes my idea of Alligator?

    You may want to rethink the title ;-)



    I had an idea for a plot soon after QoS. The film starts off with the systematic assassinations of all the Double 0 agents. Only Bond survives but is then set up as the patsy by both the British and American security services for the killings. The plot would have unravelled to find that the Director of the CIA and and The Minister of Defence were colluding together. Only M believes Bond wasn't responsible.

    I didn't get any further with it because soon after SF was announced and the plot synopsis was kind of similar.

    Alligator was of course also a Bond spoof novel by Harvard Lampoon. Perhaps this is what @Perdogg was getting at, no?
  • Posts: 686
    @Dragonpol

    Here is my plot, I changed the title to Crocodile:


    “Crocodile”

    It was just an absolutely beautiful day. The sun hung high in the sea of blue sky as an occasional gentle breeze would blow in from the Indian Ocean. It was a stark contrast to London’s wet and wintry weather. The ocean felt good as waves of water, sand, and sea foam covered his toes as he walked along the sandy beach.

    Wearing a Sea Island cotton shirt, Orlebar Brown swim trunks, and a canvas messenger bag (with his Walther PPK and flip-flops in the bag) Bond headed to the pavilion to hear the modern evangelist and mysterious man known as “Crocodile” give one of his sermons at his pavilion in the Seychelles. “Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law” Bond gave a sarcastic laughed. Bond, although a member of the Anglican Church, was generally skeptical of religion. He was more skeptical of cult leaders. Especially of one who had a nickname reminiscent of a twenty-five year old movie.

    According to the official records, Mickey “Crocodile” O’Banion, was born March 16, 1946 in Mbabane Swaziland to an Irish father and an Afrikaner mother.

    The father had left the British Isles after the Second World War to start a new life in South Africa. Mickey moved to Ireland in 1963, to his ancestral home of Dundalk. Later he moved to Barnsbury in the United Kingdom; that’s where he got involved in the Irish Mafia. Some say he got his name from the brutal way he executed fellow mobsters, yet no criminal complaint was ever filed against. In fact, he had no criminal record with MI5, Scotland Yard, Ad Garda Siochana, Surete, Interpol, BKA, or even the FBI. Some remember his involvement in the Mafia, but most refused to give details.

    In 1974, Mickey “Crocodile” O’Banion went missing and was never heard from again until 2013. In fact, he was declared legally dead in 1981.

    Bond was still getting over the fact the political situation had changed in the United Kingdom due to the L'affaire Snowdon. Bond, his boss M, Bill Tanner, and Moneypenny were no longer with MI6. He was back home in a new special Naval Intelligence Division within the Royal Navy, the Naval Intelligence Assessments and Services (NIAS). Bond’s boss M, reported directly to the First Sea Lord, Admiral Sir George Zambellas.

    As he walked toward the pavilion, Bond encountered more and more followers of this man. Most of them were young between the ages of 18 and 30. Whether they were Black or White, male or female, fat or skinny, pretty or ugly – they were there. He smiled as he noticed that some of the young women had forgone their tops and some had donned G-string bikinis. Some were frolicking, dancing, and some were canoodling with other girls.

    It was more a gathering of hippies from the sixties. Bond was intrigued over the modern woman. Some of the young women’s bodies were adorn with tattoos, including some tattoos that were split by the Natal clef. But Bond also noticed the new found natural freedom of the modern woman to shed her clothes, even though some would judge her harshly to say she shouldn’t.

    Suddenly, he found himself self-conscious of his pale sunless winter body as one of the young women placed a straw tropical hat on his head and a kiss on his cheek and ran like the child she really was.

    James Bond - Daniel Craig

    M - Ralph Finnes

    Mickey "Crocodile" O'Banion - Charles Dance

    Mary Ann Russell -Carey Mulligan

    Maria Freudenstein - Emilia Clarke

    Moneypenny - Naomie Harris

    Otto Szász - Robbie Coltrane
  • Posts: 6,396
    Mick "Crocodile".... Really? ;-)
  • Posts: 6,396
    I do really like your plot idea so far @perdogg

    I too would love to see a Bond film wherein he is seconded back to the Royal Navy. I'm surprised EON haven't considered this so far.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,264
    Mick "Crocodile".... Really? ;-)

    Dundee, anyone? And I don't mean the cake...
  • Posts: 686
    Mick "Crocodile".... Really? ;-)

    Right, the irony is not lost among Bond.

    He was more skeptical of cult leaders. Especially of one who had a nickname reminiscent of a twenty-five year old movie.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,264
    Perdogg wrote:
    Mick "Crocodile".... Really? ;-)

    Right, the irony is not lost among Bond.

    He was more skeptical of cult leaders. Especially of one who had a nickname reminiscent of a twenty-five year old movie.

    Glad to hear it, @Perdogg!
  • Posts: 6,396
    Do you think EON would ever reboot Bond a second time if they ever got to the stage again, a la DAD, and felt they needed a new direction once more?
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,264
    Do you think EON would ever reboot Bond a second time if they ever got to the stage again, a la DAD, and felt they needed a new direction once more?

    I don't think they'll ever repeat the mistakes of DAD (at least I hope not, anyhow). I think that the next reboot would only be due in another 50 years or so...
  • Posts: 6,396
    Dragonpol wrote:
    Do you think EON would ever reboot Bond a second time if they ever got to the stage again, a la DAD, and felt they needed a new direction once more?

    I don't think they'll ever repeat the mistakes of DAD (at least I hope not, anyhow). I think that the next reboot would only be due in another 50 years or so...

    Well we can only hope but I'm not as confident as you ;-)
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,264
    Dragonpol wrote:
    Do you think EON would ever reboot Bond a second time if they ever got to the stage again, a la DAD, and felt they needed a new direction once more?

    I don't think they'll ever repeat the mistakes of DAD (at least I hope not, anyhow). I think that the next reboot would only be due in another 50 years or so...

    Well we can only hope but I'm not as confident as you ;-)

    Well, these things do go round in cycles I suppose, but I'm not sure DAD is where their heart is at currently in the Craig era.
  • Posts: 6,396
    Not with Craig perhaps, but who knows where we'll be headed with the next actor. As you said, these things go in cycles and when each Bond film is trying to surpass the previous one we eventually get to a point, kind of like a pressure cooker, where it can't go any further.

    When the series goes beyond the spectacular and ventures into self-parody, changes will occur. FYEO had to be made after MR and CR had to be made after DAD. On the balance of probabilities, it will happen again at some point.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    edited July 2013 Posts: 18,264
    Not with Craig perhaps, but who knows where we'll be headed with the next actor. As you said, these things go in cycles and when each Bond film is trying to surpass the previous one we eventually get to a point, kind of like a pressure cooker, where it can't go any further.

    When the series goes beyond the spectacular and ventures into self-parody, changes will occur. FYEO had to be made after MR and CR had to be made after DAD. On the balance of probabilities, it will happen again at some point.

    I suppose that you bare right, but I do hope that past mistakes have been learned from sufficiently to prevent a repeat of DAD (which was in fact remarkably successful at the time, of course).
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    I don't see that they'll necessarily 'reboot', just shift the tone accordingly. Bond has no origin story to fall back on in the ilk of most franchises, which I love because it sets it apart from any similar cinematic characters. I hope they just roll over into Craig's successor and give us a bloody good adventure with a tonal difference. No pandering to the Hollywood zeitgeist.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,264
    RC7 wrote:
    I don't see that they'll necessarily 'reboot', just shift the tone accordingly. Bond has no origin story to fall back on in the ilk of most franchises, which I love because it sets it apart from any similar cinematic characters. I hope they just roll over into Craig's successor and give us a bloody good adventure with a tonal difference. No pandering to the Hollywood zeitgeist.

    I suspect you are correct on this. Was not Skyfall an (albeit largely invented) origin story for James Bond, in many ways, no?

  • Posts: 6,396
    Dragonpol wrote:
    Not with Craig perhaps, but who knows where we'll be headed with the next actor. As you said, these things go in cycles and when each Bond film is trying to surpass the previous one we eventually get to a point, kind of like a pressure cooker, where it can't go any further.

    When the series goes beyond the spectacular and ventures into self-parody, changes will occur. FYEO had to be made after MR and CR had to be made after DAD. On the balance of probabilities, it will happen again at some point.

    I suppose that you bare right, but I do hope that past mistakes have been learned from sufficiently to prevent a repeat of DAD (which was in fact remarkably successful at the time, of course).

    And that's evidence of the popularity of Bond. Even a truly awful film can, at the time, become the highest grossing movie in the series. Just shows that when you get it right, with SF, you can smash the previous records out the park.

    My main fear following SF's billion dollar success is not necessarily EON, but the number bods at Sony, gleefully rubbing their hands at the prospect of making even more with Bond 24;

    "How can we make the next film more successful?" "I know, we'll increase the budget and make it more spectacular and action packed"

    I only hope Sam Mendes reigns this in and as with SF demands story takes precedent over the action.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    Dragonpol wrote:
    RC7 wrote:
    I don't see that they'll necessarily 'reboot', just shift the tone accordingly. Bond has no origin story to fall back on in the ilk of most franchises, which I love because it sets it apart from any similar cinematic characters. I hope they just roll over into Craig's successor and give us a bloody good adventure with a tonal difference. No pandering to the Hollywood zeitgeist.

    I suspect you are correct on this. Was not Skyfall an (albeit largely invented) origin story for James Bond, in many ways, no?

    For me, I would say no. Not in the true sense of an origin story, where there is a journey, event or moment of transformation, that is linked explicitly and intrinsically to the 'birth' of the hero, or anti-hero.

    I think SF makes fleeting and subtle references without going too far. The finale becomes personal because Bond uses a demon of his past to conquer a demon of the present, but it is not explicitly stated this demon of the past is the sole emotional driver of his character. 

    I think this was managed well, the more I watch SF the more I think Mendes handled this element with aplomb. Show too little and it appears tacked on, show too much and you neutralise a lot of what makes the character so fascinating.

    I'd be loathe for them to go deeper however. What would really float my boat is for them to continue the Craig character trajectory so there can be subtle references and nods to the evolution of the character, rather than an unseen past. 
  • Posts: 6,396
    RC7 wrote:
    Dragonpol wrote:
    RC7 wrote:
    I don't see that they'll necessarily 'reboot', just shift the tone accordingly. Bond has no origin story to fall back on in the ilk of most franchises, which I love because it sets it apart from any similar cinematic characters. I hope they just roll over into Craig's successor and give us a bloody good adventure with a tonal difference. No pandering to the Hollywood zeitgeist.

    I suspect you are correct on this. Was not Skyfall an (albeit largely invented) origin story for James Bond, in many ways, no?

    For me, I would say no. Not in the true sense of an origin story, where there is a journey, event or moment of transformation, that is linked explicitly and intrinsically to the 'birth' of the hero, or anti-hero.

    I think SF makes fleeting and subtle references without going too far. The finale becomes personal because Bond uses a demon of his past to conquer a demon of the present, but it is not explicitly stated this demon of the past is the sole emotional driver of his character. 

    I think this was managed well, the more I watch SF the more I think Mendes handled this element with aplomb. Show too little and it appears tacked on, show too much and you neutralise a lot of what makes the character so fascinating.

    I'd be loathe for them to go deeper however. What would really float my boat is for them to continue the Craig character trajectory so there can be subtle references and nods to the evolution of the character, rather than an unseen past. 

    That sir, is a quite magnificent post. I doth my cap to you ^:)^
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,264
    RC7 wrote:
    Dragonpol wrote:
    RC7 wrote:
    I don't see that they'll necessarily 'reboot', just shift the tone accordingly. Bond has no origin story to fall back on in the ilk of most franchises, which I love because it sets it apart from any similar cinematic characters. I hope they just roll over into Craig's successor and give us a bloody good adventure with a tonal difference. No pandering to the Hollywood zeitgeist.

    I suspect you are correct on this. Was not Skyfall an (albeit largely invented) origin story for James Bond, in many ways, no?

    For me, I would say no. Not in the true sense of an origin story, where there is a journey, event or moment of transformation, that is linked explicitly and intrinsically to the 'birth' of the hero, or anti-hero.

    I think SF makes fleeting and subtle references without going too far. The finale becomes personal because Bond uses a demon of his past to conquer a demon of the present, but it is not explicitly stated this demon of the past is the sole emotional driver of his character. 

    I think this was managed well, the more I watch SF the more I think Mendes handled this element with aplomb. Show too little and it appears tacked on, show too much and you neutralise a lot of what makes the character so fascinating.

    I'd be loathe for them to go deeper however. What would really float my boat is for them to continue the Craig character trajectory so there can be subtle references and nods to the evolution of the character, rather than an unseen past. 

    That sir, is a quite magnificent post. I doth my cap to you ^:)^

    Indeed. So eloquently put, @RC7.
  • Posts: 686
    Dragonpol wrote:
    RC7 wrote:
    Dragonpol wrote:
    RC7 wrote:
    I don't see that they'll necessarily 'reboot', just shift the tone accordingly. Bond has no origin story to fall back on in the ilk of most franchises, which I love because it sets it apart from any similar cinematic characters. I hope they just roll over into Craig's successor and give us a bloody good adventure with a tonal difference. No pandering to the Hollywood zeitgeist.

    I suspect you are correct on this. Was not Skyfall an (albeit largely invented) origin story for James Bond, in many ways, no?

    For me, I would say no. Not in the true sense of an origin story, where there is a journey, event or moment of transformation, that is linked explicitly and intrinsically to the 'birth' of the hero, or anti-hero.

    I think SF makes fleeting and subtle references without going too far. The finale becomes personal because Bond uses a demon of his past to conquer a demon of the present, but it is not explicitly stated this demon of the past is the sole emotional driver of his character. 

    I think this was managed well, the more I watch SF the more I think Mendes handled this element with aplomb. Show too little and it appears tacked on, show too much and you neutralise a lot of what makes the character so fascinating.

    I'd be loathe for them to go deeper however. What would really float my boat is for them to continue the Craig character trajectory so there can be subtle references and nods to the evolution of the character, rather than an unseen past. 

    That sir, is a quite magnificent post. I doth my cap to you ^:)^

    Indeed. So eloquently put, @RC7.

    The problem I had with Skyfall is that these demons were created out of thin air because being "emotionally damaged" is the new meme among heroes, whether it is The Dark Knight or Mission Impossible or The Avengers.

    I really don't understand this need to explore Bond's "darkside". A lot of people trash the Sir Rog era for its overdose of humor and I agree to some extent, but in all honesty Sir Rog's Bond was actually grounded in what one expect for a man in Bond's world. Please let's drop the psychobabble and get to real character development. We don't even know what motivates Craig-bond. It's certainly not sex. Is it money? Is it Good v Evil? Why is Craig-bond in the Double-O program?
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,264
    Perdogg wrote:
    Dragonpol wrote:
    RC7 wrote:
    Dragonpol wrote:
    RC7 wrote:
    I don't see that they'll necessarily 'reboot', just shift the tone accordingly. Bond has no origin story to fall back on in the ilk of most franchises, which I love because it sets it apart from any similar cinematic characters. I hope they just roll over into Craig's successor and give us a bloody good adventure with a tonal difference. No pandering to the Hollywood zeitgeist.

    I suspect you are correct on this. Was not Skyfall an (albeit largely invented) origin story for James Bond, in many ways, no?

    For me, I would say no. Not in the true sense of an origin story, where there is a journey, event or moment of transformation, that is linked explicitly and intrinsically to the 'birth' of the hero, or anti-hero.

    I think SF makes fleeting and subtle references without going too far. The finale becomes personal because Bond uses a demon of his past to conquer a demon of the present, but it is not explicitly stated this demon of the past is the sole emotional driver of his character. 

    I think this was managed well, the more I watch SF the more I think Mendes handled this element with aplomb. Show too little and it appears tacked on, show too much and you neutralise a lot of what makes the character so fascinating.

    I'd be loathe for them to go deeper however. What would really float my boat is for them to continue the Craig character trajectory so there can be subtle references and nods to the evolution of the character, rather than an unseen past. 

    That sir, is a quite magnificent post. I doth my cap to you ^:)^

    Indeed. So eloquently put, @RC7.

    The problem I had with Skyfall is that these demons were created out of thin air because being "emotionally damaged" is the new meme among heroes, whether it is The Dark Knight or Mission Impossible or The Avengers.

    I really don't understand this need to explore Bond's "darkside". A lot of people trash the Sir Rog era for its overdose of humor and I agree to some extent, but in all honesty Sir Rog's Bond was actually grounded in what one expect for a man in Bond's world. Please let's drop the psychobabble and get to real character development. We don't even know what motivates Craig-bond. It's certainly not sex. Is it money? Is it Good v Evil? Why is Craig-bond in the Double-O program?

    Yes, I agree that Skyfall cashed in on this current meme, but I still think that this was the best Bond film in years. I don't understand all of the negativity towards it.
  • edited July 2013 Posts: 6,396
    Perdogg wrote:
    Dragonpol wrote:
    RC7 wrote:
    Dragonpol wrote:
    RC7 wrote:
    I don't see that they'll necessarily 'reboot', just shift the tone accordingly. Bond has no origin story to fall back on in the ilk of most franchises, which I love because it sets it apart from any similar cinematic characters. I hope they just roll over into Craig's successor and give us a bloody good adventure with a tonal difference. No pandering to the Hollywood zeitgeist.

    I suspect you are correct on this. Was not Skyfall an (albeit largely invented) origin story for James Bond, in many ways, no?

    For me, I would say no. Not in the true sense of an origin story, where there is a journey, event or moment of transformation, that is linked explicitly and intrinsically to the 'birth' of the hero, or anti-hero.

    I think SF makes fleeting and subtle references without going too far. The finale becomes personal because Bond uses a demon of his past to conquer a demon of the present, but it is not explicitly stated this demon of the past is the sole emotional driver of his character. 

    I think this was managed well, the more I watch SF the more I think Mendes handled this element with aplomb. Show too little and it appears tacked on, show too much and you neutralise a lot of what makes the character so fascinating.

    I'd be loathe for them to go deeper however. What would really float my boat is for them to continue the Craig character trajectory so there can be subtle references and nods to the evolution of the character, rather than an unseen past. 

    That sir, is a quite magnificent post. I doth my cap to you ^:)^

    Indeed. So eloquently put, @RC7.

    The problem I had with Skyfall is that these demons were created out of thin air because being "emotionally damaged" is the new meme among heroes, whether it is The Dark Knight or Mission Impossible or The Avengers.

    I really don't understand this need to explore Bond's "darkside". A lot of people trash the Sir Rog era for its overdose of humor and I agree to some extent, but in all honesty Sir Rog's Bond was actually grounded in what one expect for a man in Bond's world. Please let's drop the psychobabble and get to real character development. We don't even know what motivates Craig-bond. It's certainly not sex. Is it money? Is it Good v Evil? Why is Craig-bond in the Double-O program?

    I think the point to it all, is that after 50 years and 22 films, you want to be able to offer the audience something new, something different, something you haven't seen before. And I applaud any effort made in fleshing out the character, whether that means visiting Bond's "darkside" as you put it or not.

    Ultimately we all know how a Bond film is going to play out before we've sat down to watch it, whether that's as die-hard fans or as the general movie going audience. The trick is to surprise us, throw a few curved balls at us and not make as formulaic a film as we would expect.

    And yes, I absolutely loved SF. It was as good a Bond film as I'd hoped it would be.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,264
    Perdogg wrote:
    Dragonpol wrote:
    RC7 wrote:
    Dragonpol wrote:
    RC7 wrote:
    I don't see that they'll necessarily 'reboot', just shift the tone accordingly. Bond has no origin story to fall back on in the ilk of most franchises, which I love because it sets it apart from any similar cinematic characters. I hope they just roll over into Craig's successor and give us a bloody good adventure with a tonal difference. No pandering to the Hollywood zeitgeist.

    I suspect you are correct on this. Was not Skyfall an (albeit largely invented) origin story for James Bond, in many ways, no?

    For me, I would say no. Not in the true sense of an origin story, where there is a journey, event or moment of transformation, that is linked explicitly and intrinsically to the 'birth' of the hero, or anti-hero.

    I think SF makes fleeting and subtle references without going too far. The finale becomes personal because Bond uses a demon of his past to conquer a demon of the present, but it is not explicitly stated this demon of the past is the sole emotional driver of his character. 

    I think this was managed well, the more I watch SF the more I think Mendes handled this element with aplomb. Show too little and it appears tacked on, show too much and you neutralise a lot of what makes the character so fascinating.

    I'd be loathe for them to go deeper however. What would really float my boat is for them to continue the Craig character trajectory so there can be subtle references and nods to the evolution of the character, rather than an unseen past. 

    That sir, is a quite magnificent post. I doth my cap to you ^:)^

    Indeed. So eloquently put, @RC7.

    The problem I had with Skyfall is that these demons were created out of thin air because being "emotionally damaged" is the new meme among heroes, whether it is The Dark Knight or Mission Impossible or The Avengers.

    I really don't understand this need to explore Bond's "darkside". A lot of people trash the Sir Rog era for its overdose of humor and I agree to some extent, but in all honesty Sir Rog's Bond was actually grounded in what one expect for a man in Bond's world. Please let's drop the psychobabble and get to real character development. We don't even know what motivates Craig-bond. It's certainly not sex. Is it money? Is it Good v Evil? Why is Craig-bond in the Double-O program?

    I think the point to it all, is that after 50 years and 22 films, you want to be able to offer the audience something new, something different, something you haven't seen before. And I applaud any effort made in fleshing out the character, whether that means visiting Bond's "darkside" as you put it or not.

    Ultimately we all know how a Bond film is going to play out before we've sat down to watch it, whether that's as die-hard fans or as the general movie going audience. The trick is to surprise us, throw a few curved balls at us and not make as formulaic a film as we would expect.

    And yes, I absolutely loved SF. It was as good a Bond film as I'd hoped it would be.

    Well said, sir. I too am all for experimentation and "giving us something different" in a Bond film and the Craig era delivers this in spades, in my view.
  • Posts: 686
    Dragonpol wrote:
    Perdogg wrote:
    Dragonpol wrote:
    RC7 wrote:
    Dragonpol wrote:
    RC7 wrote:
    I don't see that they'll necessarily 'reboot', just shift the tone accordingly. Bond has no origin story to fall back on in the ilk of most franchises, which I love because it sets it apart from any similar cinematic characters. I hope they just roll over into Craig's successor and give us a bloody good adventure with a tonal difference. No pandering to the Hollywood zeitgeist.

    I suspect you are correct on this. Was not Skyfall an (albeit largely invented) origin story for James Bond, in many ways, no?

    For me, I would say no. Not in the true sense of an origin story, where there is a journey, event or moment of transformation, that is linked explicitly and intrinsically to the 'birth' of the hero, or anti-hero.

    I think SF makes fleeting and subtle references without going too far. The finale becomes personal because Bond uses a demon of his past to conquer a demon of the present, but it is not explicitly stated this demon of the past is the sole emotional driver of his character. 

    I think this was managed well, the more I watch SF the more I think Mendes handled this element with aplomb. Show too little and it appears tacked on, show too much and you neutralise a lot of what makes the character so fascinating.

    I'd be loathe for them to go deeper however. What would really float my boat is for them to continue the Craig character trajectory so there can be subtle references and nods to the evolution of the character, rather than an unseen past. 

    That sir, is a quite magnificent post. I doth my cap to you ^:)^

    Indeed. So eloquently put, @RC7.

    The problem I had with Skyfall is that these demons were created out of thin air because being "emotionally damaged" is the new meme among heroes, whether it is The Dark Knight or Mission Impossible or The Avengers.

    I really don't understand this need to explore Bond's "darkside". A lot of people trash the Sir Rog era for its overdose of humor and I agree to some extent, but in all honesty Sir Rog's Bond was actually grounded in what one expect for a man in Bond's world. Please let's drop the psychobabble and get to real character development. We don't even know what motivates Craig-bond. It's certainly not sex. Is it money? Is it Good v Evil? Why is Craig-bond in the Double-O program?

    Yes, I agree that Skyfall cashed in on this current meme, but I still think that this was the best Bond film in years. I don't understand all of the negativity towards it.

    Skyfall is a beautiful movie. Unfortunately, Mendes was not making Barry Lyndon. There are several problems I had with the movie. First of all there is the anti-male political correctness to the movie. Barbara Broccoli said that this was no accident.
    The bond women lacked any character development and lacked any chemistry with Bond. The Villain was uninspiring - as Butthead once said "I have seen scarier devils in a Mr Big video".

    It lacked the essential Bond individualist spirit and during the third outing we have no idea why Bond is there?
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    Perdogg wrote:
    The problem I had with Skyfall is that these demons were created out of thin air because being "emotionally damaged" is the new meme among heroes, whether it is The Dark Knight or Mission Impossible or The Avengers.

    I really don't understand this need to explore Bond's "darkside". A lot of people trash the Sir Rog era for its overdose of humor and I agree to some extent, but in all honesty Sir Rog's Bond was actually grounded in what one expect for a man in Bond's world. Please let's drop the psychobabble and get to real character development. We don't even know what motivates Craig-bond. It's certainly not sex. Is it money? Is it Good v Evil? Why is Craig-bond in the Double-O program?

    They were developed for the purpose of the narrative, but to say they were created out of thin air isn't quite being fair. They did the best they could to allude to a Fleming back story which is at best sparse, and at worst inconclusive and inconsistent. As for being 'emotionally damaged', I wouldn't say Bond is exactly absorbed by self-pity, he gives the SF line during his analysis short-shrift on the surface, but it's clear there's something more going on behind the eyes. However, in true Fleming fashion the whole notion is closed off and shoved back into it's own compartment, to be confronted and utilised at a later date, when absolutely necessary.

    Regards the so called 'dark side', @TheWizardOfIce gave a perfect analysis of the Craig Bond and his place in the world of Fleming, I forget the thread, but when I find it I shall post the link in here.

    Regards what drives Craig-Bond, you musn't have watched Skyfall too closely. There's a scene just after the pre-titles where Bond is partaking in some day time drinking and sees a CNN news report of Silva's attack on MI6. In this moment it is quite clear that no, his motivation isn't sex, it isn't money, it's not good vs. evil, remember the British Bulldog symbolism? His motivation is his sense of duty and Fleming would have it no other way.

  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,264
    RC7 wrote:
    Perdogg wrote:
    The problem I had with Skyfall is that these demons were created out of thin air because being "emotionally damaged" is the new meme among heroes, whether it is The Dark Knight or Mission Impossible or The Avengers.

    I really don't understand this need to explore Bond's "darkside". A lot of people trash the Sir Rog era for its overdose of humor and I agree to some extent, but in all honesty Sir Rog's Bond was actually grounded in what one expect for a man in Bond's world. Please let's drop the psychobabble and get to real character development. We don't even know what motivates Craig-bond. It's certainly not sex. Is it money? Is it Good v Evil? Why is Craig-bond in the Double-O program?

    They were developed for the purpose of the narrative, but to say they were created out of thin air isn't quite being fair. They did the best they could to allude to a Fleming back story which is at best sparse, and at worst inconclusive and inconsistent. As for being 'emotionally damaged', I wouldn't say Bond is exactly absorbed by self-pity, he gives the SF line during his analysis short-shrift on the surface, but it's clear there's something more going on behind the eyes. However, in true Fleming fashion the whole notion is closed off and shoved back into it's own compartment, to be confronted and utilised at a later date, when absolutely necessary.

    Regards the so called 'dark side', @TheWizardOfIce gave a perfect analysis of the Craig Bond and his place in the world of Fleming, I forget the thread, but when I find it I shall post the link in here.

    Regards what drives Craig-Bond, you musn't have watched Skyfall too closely. There's a scene just after the pre-titles where Bond is partaking in some day time drinking and sees a CNN news report of Silva's attack on MI6. In this moment it is quite clear that no, his motivation isn't sex, it isn't money, it's not good vs. evil, remember the British Bulldog symbolism? His motivation is his sense of duty and Fleming would have it no other way.

    Good analysis, @RC7. Well done.
  • edited July 2013 Posts: 1,548
    Bond has to kill The President of the United States to stop a biological weapon being used at Liverpool home game.

    As a Manchester United fan I'd just let the terrorists win in this scenario! Let the President live!
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,264
    LeChiffre wrote:
    Bond has to kill The President of the United States to stop a biological weapon being used at Liverpool home game.

    As a Manchester United fan I'd just let the terrorists win in this scenario! Let the President live!

    One reason why I believe football is just another way of dividing people. There have been studies into this.
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