Craig toasting the bad guys (SPOILERS)

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Comments

  • Posts: 3,327
    I smell sarcasm.

    Heaven forbid.
  • edited November 2012 Posts: 3,278
    Zekidk wrote:
    @Germanlady
    You are missing my point. I don't mind Bond being saved by someone else or a gadget. I just thought he was mostly incompetent in SF.

    One of the reasons I loved the film so much. It's nice to see Bond make a few mistakes now and again.
    I actually agree with this. He should make "a few" mistakes. But in SF it was just too much. He just failed, failed and failed! He didn't retrieve the list, he didn't pass his test, he didn't prevent Severine from dying and he failed to protect M, because he thought he could outgun more than 16 henchmen + the main villain.
  • Posts: 6,601
    Hew retrived the list in the moment, he captured Silva (OH YEAH, he DID THAT!), he didn't pass his test but eventually got back to form, when needed, none of the other Bonds EVER saved the sacrificial lamb from dying, he DID outgun 16 - 16? - henchman and Silva - just couldn't prevend M from being shot. Oh well...poor points...
  • Posts: 3,327
    Zekidk wrote:
    Zekidk wrote:
    @Germanlady
    You are missing my point. I don't mind Bond being saved by someone else or a gadget. I just thought he was mostly incompetent in SF.

    One of the reasons I loved the film so much. It's nice to see Bond make a few mistakes now and again.
    I actually agree with this. He should make "a few" mistakes. But in SF it was just too much. He just failed, failed and failed! He didn't retrieve the list, he didn't pass his test, he didn't prevent Severine from dying and he failed to protect M, because he thought he could outgun more than 16 henchmen + the main villain.
    As GL says, there is another way to look at this too, less pessimistically, which seems to be your only constant viewpoint on SF.

    In OHMSS he gets his wife killed and the villain gets away at the end of the movie. I would say that he failed more in that film than he did in SF ultimately.

    And he tries to resign on a whim too at the beginning, due to his constant failure trying to get to Blofeld.

  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    Zekidk wrote:
    Zekidk wrote:
    @Germanlady
    You are missing my point. I don't mind Bond being saved by someone else or a gadget. I just thought he was mostly incompetent in SF.

    One of the reasons I loved the film so much. It's nice to see Bond make a few mistakes now and again.
    I actually agree with this. He should make "a few" mistakes. But in SF it was just too much. He just failed, failed and failed! He didn't retrieve the list, he didn't pass his test, he didn't prevent Severine from dying and he failed to protect M, because he thought he could outgun more than 16 henchmen + the main villain.

    I see where you're coming from with this but I think a lot of the issues you raise are there to progress the plot. Somewhat clumsily in certain cases and this is where the logic is slightly amiss. The whole premise is that Bond is effectively buggered, he couldn't really care less and the only thing dragging him back into action is 'M'. He calls her a bitch but in reality the sole reason he returns to MI6 is her. To have him 'regain his step' so to speak is supposedly an arduous process and I would say it wasn't necessarily well executed. Missing Severine's head and then taking down Silva's goons is utterly bizarre. But, having set the film up on the basis he's gone AWOL and become a borderline alcoholic I'd have said he probably should have been even worse than he was for potentially longer.

    That in itself is at odds with the idea of what 'Bond' is for some people. So I sympathise. I'd like the hard edged efficient killer back next time. I admire what they tried to do with SF, some of it worked for me. Some of it didn't.


  • Posts: 6,601
    re Severine - I think, he didn't trust himself and so - obviously just missed on purpose, because the shot was way off. That he could take down the men afterwards could be accounted to the fact, that nothing much was to loose really. I think, the whole situation worked for Bond, because he HAD to take Silva and men down, before the helis arrived, otherwise most likely Silva would have shot him right away. When Silva shot Severine so unexpectedly, there was a moment of distraction for all of them and he could react.
  • edited November 2012 Posts: 3,278
    Germanlady wrote:
    Hew retrived the list in the moment, he captured Silva (OH YEAH, he DID THAT!), he didn't pass his test but eventually got back to form, when needed,
    No one knows what happened to the list exactly, it wasn't explained. So we can only assume.
    And yes, the first thing Bond does when sent on a mission after having failed all his tests because he is still a wash-up, is to outfight and kill the same guy in 20 seconds, that he was unable to kill on top of the train when he was active and fit for duty. Why? Because "he needed." Makes perfect sense!
  • Posts: 6,601
    Oh dear, they guy fell of a ??. Had this not been there, who knows, how long the fight would have taken. See, many of your points are not as valid, as you think.
    IMO it was clear to every logic thinking human, that when M says, I want to know, whats on the comp etc, that they will be able to retrive the list. Don't forget, that Q is a comp genius, too.
  • Posts: 3,278
    Germanlady. It's not for you to decide what I deem valid or not.

    When M asked about what was on the computer, how do you and all the other "logic thinking humans" know that this exact computer contained the exact harddisk that was stolen?

    And if we really were to apply logic here, Silva, who has a full array of computers on his island, would surely have made backups.
  • edited November 2012 Posts: 774
    Zekidk wrote:
    Germanlady. It's not for you to decide what I deem valid or not.

    When M asked about what was on the computer, how do you and all the other "logic thinking humans" know that this exact computer contained the exact harddisk that was stolen?

    And if we really were to apply logic here, Silva, who has a full array of computers on his island, would surely have made backups.

    Yeah, but it's a Bond movie. Not only is it a pretty natural assumption to make that they took everything that was important, but logic isn't always the most important thing in a Bond movie, they're hardly going to spell every little thing out.

    I think in this case if you look at anything too long you're bound to see problems that aren't necessarily there.
  • Posts: 6,601
    Zekidk wrote:

    When M asked about what was on the computer, how do you and all the other "logic thinking humans" know that this exact computer contained the exact harddisk that was stolen?

    1 computer? I am sure, they looked at ALL of them. Don't you?

    And if we really were to apply logic here, Silva, who has a full array of computers on his island, would surely have made backups. [/quote]

    Right and I am sure, MI6 has their ways, too to find them. But if you want ALL of that shown and explained, this movie would be 6 hours long. I would assume, they trusted the audiences to realize, what happened without showing it, as its the logic consequence.
  • Posts: 3,278
    @Volante.

    Like I said many times here, I don't care about logic in Bond-movies if they compensate by making a full blown escapist action adventure.

    But SF tries to pass as a "serious" and more gritty and realistic thriller - an Oscar contender - so as a matter of fact I do think that logic is more important here, than in other Bond movies. And there's very little of it in SF. So many things just doesn't make any sense, like the examples I posted earlier. I'm all for suspension of disbelief, but this was insulting my intelligence!
  • Perhaps we all ought to just tip our glasses in DRESSED_TO_KILL's general direction and leave it at that. ;))
  • edited November 2012 Posts: 4,813
    I haven't chimed in yet on the subject but I actually found the scene in question (Craig toasting the bad guys) to be very badass.
    bondboy007 wrote:
    You can go back to GF and say would a licensed hitman for the British government really wink at a Chinese guard before trying to escape from his cell? Also what "line" are you referring to?
    That scene in GF creeps the hell out of me every time I see it. I can't be the only one to feel this way... :-S
    I dug this up just for you 0Brady
    \m/

    tumblr_mdpcn2Na421ryfpf3o1_500.gif
  • Zekidk wrote:
    @Volante.

    Like I said many times here, I don't care about logic in Bond-movies if they compensate by making a full blown escapist action adventure.

    But SF tries to pass as a "serious" and more gritty and realistic thriller - an Oscar contender - so as a matter of fact I do think that logic is more important here, than in other Bond movies. And there's very little of it in SF. So many things just doesn't make any sense, like the examples I posted earlier. I'm all for suspension of disbelief, but this was insulting my intelligence!
    Well, first, I think you probably meant to say you thought the movie should be reasonable, not logical; logic is a philosophy, and, as such, can be used to defend things which are not rational.

    Secondly, as long as a movie stays true to its own internal structure, I'm fine with it. Nothing Hollywood is putting out is "realistic", at least not in this genre.

  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    I haven't chimed in yet on the subject but I actually found the scene in question (Craig toasting the bad guys) to be very badass.
    bondboy007 wrote:
    You can go back to GF and say would a licensed hitman for the British government really wink at a Chinese guard before trying to escape from his cell? Also what "line" are you referring to?
    That scene in GF creeps the hell out of me every time I see it. I can't be the only one to feel this way... :-S
    I dug this up just for you 0Brady
    \m/

    tumblr_mdpcn2Na421ryfpf3o1_500.gif

    I am heading for my covers!!! X_X
  • Posts: 3,278
    Zekidk wrote:
    @Volante.

    Like I said many times here, I don't care about logic in Bond-movies if they compensate by making a full blown escapist action adventure.

    But SF tries to pass as a "serious" and more gritty and realistic thriller - an Oscar contender - so as a matter of fact I do think that logic is more important here, than in other Bond movies. And there's very little of it in SF. So many things just doesn't make any sense, like the examples I posted earlier. I'm all for suspension of disbelief, but this was insulting my intelligence!
    Well, first, I think you probably meant to say you thought the movie should be reasonable, not logical; logic is a philosophy, and, as such, can be used to defend things which are not rational.
    Thank you for pointing this out. As you maybe have guessed - english is not my 1st language.
  • Zekidk wrote:
    Thank you for pointing this out. As you maybe have guessed - english is not my 1st language.
    No worries; there are plenty of people who's primary language is English, and they misuse the word all the time as well.

  • Aziz_FekkeshAziz_Fekkesh Royale-les-Eaux
    Posts: 403
    Uh ya, it's safe to assume that the hard drive was recovered. That ultimately wasn't Silva's plan anyway: he wanted to humiliate M before axing her and going out guns-a-blazin'. Even if they didn't recover it (highly unlikely) MI6 did catch the guy that was dispersing the info. Silva wanted to be caught (by Bond, or whoever) so he caught go on a suicide run to get revenge on M. That's it. If Bond had managed to get the list in the PTS, it's hard to say what Silva's contingecy would be, but he probably did have one.
  • Posts: 774
    Uh ya, it's safe to assume that the hard drive was recovered. That ultimately wasn't Silva's plan anyway: he wanted to humiliate M before axing her and going out guns-a-blazin'. Even if they didn't recover it (highly unlikely) MI6 did catch the guy that was dispersing the info. Silva wanted to be caught (by Bond, or whoever) so he caught go on a suicide run to get revenge on M. That's it. If Bond had managed to get the list in the PTS, it's hard to say what Silva's contingecy would be, but he probably did have one.

    Very much agree, if he didn't have the hard drive Bond would never have come after him. The hard drive and the leaking of the agents was just the bait to put the rest of his plan into effect.
  • edited November 2012 Posts: 12,837
    Bring back the invisible car and double-taking pigeons, that's what I say. At least we know invisible cars and double-taking pigeons do exist in real life, don't we.



    Not the same as the DAD one but we're getting there. Who knows, maybe in 20 years or so the DAD car will be seen as ahead of it's time?

    To be honest the invisible car never bothered me much, I don't find it anymore unrealistic then a helicopter in a suitcase or a car that turns into a submarine (I think we have that now but we didn't in the 70s).

    There's much worse stuff in DAD.
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