SPECTRE: TOP 5 elements "SPECTRE" must have to tackle all criticism that surrounded "SKYFALL"

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  • Sorryyy, you can make links of them, but sometimes visuals say much more...and make the content of a post actually better.
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    Posts: 13,355
    I agree with you, but forum rules are forum rules. You'll have to take them down and turn them into links.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    [img][/img]I have been thinking about below's result. Especially the wish of bringing back the gunbarrel at the start is very popular. Does it make the film 'better' or 'of higher quality'? I personally don't think so.

    Still, I think it's an 'element Bond 24 should have to tackle EVERY bit of criticism that surrounded 'SKYFALL''. And if you like it or not......this was a point of criticism.

    Now, my suggestion to actually bring back a proper gunbarrel at the start is based on this logo:
    James-Bond-007-will-return-50-years.jpg

    And the logo used for Adele's single cover:
    DAVESKYFALL.jpg

    And yes, fans, the above logo's are all based on Maurice Binder's original gunbarrel design he made by looking inside a gun. Actually, back in 2012 it made me think that the actual gunbarrel would look very Binder-esque. Alas, the Skyfall-gunbarrel looked like this:
    Skyfall-Gun-Barrel-2.jpg

    Then the Quantum Of Solace-gunbarrel had a differentb design. This one:
    qos-gunbarrel-20.jpg

    And on top of that, the Casino Royale-gunbarrel looked like this!:
    casinoroyale-gunbarrel-4.jpg

    Fans, I think it's obvious. The Daniel Craig-era suffers from a huge 'Gunbarrel-Identity-Crisis' :-P!! For me, I'd like to see.....
    this gunbarrel,
    at the very start,
    with Monty Norman's gunbarrel-theme,
    re-composed by Thomas Newman:
    craiggunbarrel2.jpg
    So, here is the list of 'Most frequent mentionings of aspects/elements that could be improved for Bond 24' as of November 18th 2013:

    29 MENTIONINGS -> 'GUNBARREL BACK AT THE START'
    18 mentionings --> 'Return of more psychotic Ernst Stavro Blofeld (Christoph Waltz?)'
    17 mentionings --> 'James Bond in the snow/Ski scenes'
    17 mentionings --> 'Bond bedding a real Bond-girl in the end'
    16 mentionings --> 'Simple, plain mission briefing in M's office'
    16 mentionings --> 'Better memorable music score/No Thomas Newman'
    13 mentionings --> 'Larger role for Felix Leiter'
    09 mentionings --> 'Time to soak up the cultures of escapist locations, smarter use of it'
    09 mentionings --> 'Better fist fights'
    08 mentionings --> 'Memorable henchman/henchwoman (Tilda Swinton?)'
    ====================================================
    07 mentionings --> 'Return of crime syndicate QUANTUM'
    06 mentionings --> 'Bring in Formula One racing, new kind of carchase ('Rush')'
    06 mentionings --> 'More clever, less brutal action'
    05 mentionings --> 'Return of crime syndicate S.P.E.C.T.R.E.'
    05 mentionings --> 'Better screenplay/more effective one-liners for Bond'
    05 mentionings --> 'A straightforward grand escapist Bond adventure'
    05 mentionings --> 'More funny Q-gadgets'
    04 mentionings --> 'Return of Barry's 007 theme'
    04 mentionings --> 'Lush, escapist production design'
    03 mentionings --> 'Bring back SKYFALL-crew, including director Sam Mendes'
    03 mentionings --> 'Commander James Bond 007 in naval uniform'
    03 mentionings --> 'Wodka Martini, shaken......not stirred!'
    03 mentionings --> 'More fun & escapism!'
    02 mentionings --> 'Bring in new/previous crew, including director Martin Campbell'
    02 mentionings --> 'Less CGI that is too obvious'
    02 mentionings --> 'Big overblown finale in the end'
    02 mentionings --> 'A dinner with the villain (Dr.No/Kamal Khan)'
    02 mentionings --> 'Better use of Monty Norman's James Bond Theme'
    02 mentionings --> 'Different Bond-actor/replace Daniel Craig'
    02 mentionings --> 'Yes! Bring back the Aston Martin or another 2-door car'

    01 mentionings --> 'A Gala Brandt story arc'
    01 mentionings --> 'A villain-/ally-mixup, like in FYEO'
    01 mentionings --> 'Different cinematography/replace Roger Deakins'
    01 mentionings --> 'Let Daniel Craig carry the film completely/less ensemble cast'
    01 mentionings --> 'More screentime for Bond vs. villain'
    01 mentionings --> 'Use of Fleming's novels for inspiration, like YOLT'
    01 mentionings --> 'No Aston Martin-first time since TWINE'
    01 mentionings --> 'Re-visiting Tracy's and/or Vesper's grave'
    01 mentionings --> 'A well executed escape scene'
    01 mentionings --> 'More espionage thriller-style'
    01 mentionings --> 'Beardless Daniel Craig'
    01 mentionings --> 'Flashbacks of Judi Dench'
    01 mentionings --> 'A Fleming title/chaptertitle for Bond 24 film title'
    01 mentionings --> 'Bond playing Texas Hold'Em or Chemin de Fer / Baccarat'
    01 mentionings --> 'Rock themed song'
    01 mentionings --> 'Make Bond trend-setting again, not trend-follower (stop Nolan-esque)'
    01 mentionings --> 'Avoid the usual disappointing 'third-act''
    01 mentionings --> 'More important Bond-girl'

    Amen to that Sir.

    I just don't get the logic. The 50th logo is the original design, Adele features the original design and the teaser poster features the original design. So why go and give us another god awful shambles of a design for the actual GB for the film? Go figure. Presumably the same marketing genius at EON who signed off on 007 Legends and the 50th bluray box set is responsible for this 'strategy'?

    And as for it belonging at the beginning - well this is not even arguable IMO.
  • Well, let's hope Daniel Kleinman reads all this :-P. In the end he is responsible for the design of the main titles and the gunbarrel, whereas Sony's marketing department actually used Maurice Binder's design.
  • I don't actually have a problem with not having a gun barrel, but it annoys me to no end how they stick it at the end.
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    I would love to see the reaction of all of you the day they finally slap the gunbarrel at the start to a CraigBond movie. Some of the reactions I'm certain will be priceless.
  • doubleoego wrote:
    I would love to see the reaction of all of you the day they finally slap the gunbarrel at the start to a CraigBond movie. Some of the reactions I'm certain will be priceless.

    Depends....if you make a difference between the older, more established Bond fans and the young teenager fans who have just been introduced to this 'Bond thingie'. ;-).
  • pachazopachazo Make Your Choice
    Posts: 7,314
    I don't actually have a problem with not having a gun barrel, but it annoys me to no end how they stick it at the end.
    I agree that if it isn't at the beginning then don't even bother with it.

  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    I think the placement of the gb at the end of both QoS and SF actually worked quite well.
  • Posts: 15,117
    I know I said it before, but here it is again... A lot of things mentioned on the list above are not really criticism of Skyfall, or should NOT be criticism of it, they belong more to the Bond 24 wish list. I mean, the return of Quantum, Blofeld, those are not things that were needed in SF, or could have improved it. Regardless of what you thought of the movie. I mean, I hate DAD and would love to see Blofeld returning, but Blofeld wouldn't have made DAD better.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,968
    Ludovico wrote:
    I know I said it before, but here it is again... A lot of things mentioned on the list above are not really criticism of Skyfall, or should NOT be criticism of it, they belong more to the Bond 24 wish list. I mean, the return of Quantum, Blofeld, those are not things that were needed in SF, or could have improved it. Regardless of what you thought of the movie. I mean, I hate DAD and would love to see Blofeld returning, but Blofeld wouldn't have made DAD better.

    I've said the exact same thing, and I believe I was shot down somehow because everyone seemed to disagree with me, even though I feel that it's fact that a lot of these weren't topics of discussion in the slightest in terms of fixing SF criticism.
  • Also please give Bond 24 a coherent plot.
    Actually, maybe the plot of Bond 24 will revolve around MI6 finally trying to get the damn hard drive they completely forgot about in SF
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,968
    Also please give Bond 24 a coherent plot.
    Actually, maybe the plot of Bond 24 will revolve around MI6 finally trying to get the damn hard drive they completely forgot about in SF

    They didn't forget about it. They retrieved it and Q was going to look into it when Silva escaped. MI6 has it.
  • Creasy47 wrote:
    Also please give Bond 24 a coherent plot.
    Actually, maybe the plot of Bond 24 will revolve around MI6 finally trying to get the damn hard drive they completely forgot about in SF

    They didn't forget about it. They retrieved it and Q was going to look into it when Silva escaped. MI6 has it.

    Also, Silva was only using it to get MI6's attention, his real goal was humiliating, destroying, and killing M.
  • Creasy47 wrote:
    Also please give Bond 24 a coherent plot.
    Actually, maybe the plot of Bond 24 will revolve around MI6 finally trying to get the damn hard drive they completely forgot about in SF

    They didn't forget about it. They retrieved it and Q was going to look into it when Silva escaped. MI6 has it.

    Also, Silva was only using it to get MI6's attention, his real goal was humiliating, destroying, and killing M.

    Are you sure? I always thought what Q was looking into was Silva's own computer and not the hard drive.... and yes, but I don't think that's a reason to just leave it be!
  • Creasy47 wrote:
    Also please give Bond 24 a coherent plot.
    Actually, maybe the plot of Bond 24 will revolve around MI6 finally trying to get the damn hard drive they completely forgot about in SF

    They didn't forget about it. They retrieved it and Q was going to look into it when Silva escaped. MI6 has it.

    Also, Silva was only using it to get MI6's attention, his real goal was humiliating, destroying, and killing M.

    Are you sure? I always thought what Q was looking into was Silva's own computer and not the hard drive.... and yes, but I don't think that's a reason to just leave it be!

    Why complicate the plot with the MacGuffin after the story has already shifted? It would be like Bond attending Strangways' funeral after escaping Dr. No's lair.
  • Creasy47 wrote:
    Also please give Bond 24 a coherent plot.
    Actually, maybe the plot of Bond 24 will revolve around MI6 finally trying to get the damn hard drive they completely forgot about in SF

    They didn't forget about it. They retrieved it and Q was going to look into it when Silva escaped. MI6 has it.

    Also, Silva was only using it to get MI6's attention, his real goal was humiliating, destroying, and killing M.

    Are you sure? I always thought what Q was looking into was Silva's own computer and not the hard drive.... and yes, but I don't think that's a reason to just leave it be!

    Why complicate the plot with the MacGuffin after the story has already shifted? It would be like Bond attending Strangways' funeral after escaping Dr. No's lair.

    Because every NATO agent could be compromised!!
  • Posts: 15,117
    Creasy47 wrote:
    Also please give Bond 24 a coherent plot.
    Actually, maybe the plot of Bond 24 will revolve around MI6 finally trying to get the damn hard drive they completely forgot about in SF

    They didn't forget about it. They retrieved it and Q was going to look into it when Silva escaped. MI6 has it.

    Also, Silva was only using it to get MI6's attention, his real goal was humiliating, destroying, and killing M.

    Are you sure? I always thought what Q was looking into was Silva's own computer and not the hard drive.... and yes, but I don't think that's a reason to just leave it be!

    Why complicate the plot with the MacGuffin after the story has already shifted? It would be like Bond attending Strangways' funeral after escaping Dr. No's lair.

    Because every NATO agent could be compromised!!

    Are they at this point? Silva is captured, he isn't going to reveal the names. What matters is who may have had the names, if he decided to share it, which is what they were doing. But when he escapes, then the plot shifts and the immediate concern is Silva himself, not the list.
  • Posts: 15,117
    Creasy47 wrote:
    Ludovico wrote:
    I know I said it before, but here it is again... A lot of things mentioned on the list above are not really criticism of Skyfall, or should NOT be criticism of it, they belong more to the Bond 24 wish list. I mean, the return of Quantum, Blofeld, those are not things that were needed in SF, or could have improved it. Regardless of what you thought of the movie. I mean, I hate DAD and would love to see Blofeld returning, but Blofeld wouldn't have made DAD better.

    I've said the exact same thing, and I believe I was shot down somehow because everyone seemed to disagree with me, even though I feel that it's fact that a lot of these weren't topics of discussion in the slightest in terms of fixing SF criticism.

    One of the best, or worst point here is Bond in a naval uniform. I mean really? After SF, that's what someone thought? "It was ok, I guess, but it would have been so much better if Bond had been in a naval uniform."
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    edited December 2013 Posts: 40,968
    @Ludovico, apparently so. I think it would all make more sense with a title change, as like we've said, I failed to see most of this being criticized when SF was released.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    doubleoego wrote:
    I would love to see the reaction of all of you the day they finally slap the gunbarrel at the start to a CraigBond movie. Some of the reactions I'm certain will be priceless.

    Quite. Though I'm sure the more talented critics will still manage to find something to be negative about. ;)
  • edited December 2013 Posts: 11,119
    Please dear fans. The topic name includes this:
    'Which ELEMENT Bond 24 should have to tackle EVERY bit of criticism that surrounded 'SKYFALL'.


    In the end it's about the net, total package that makes or breaks a Bond film. All elements combined together. But until then we are gathering and discussing certain elements of a Bond film that should be improved to tackle criticism.

    Now, we all say "Aaah, the gunbarrel at the end actually worked quite well". But I heard different voices during the screenings of 'Skyfall'.
  • 1. No (or minimal) CGI
    2. Gunbarrel at the beginning
    3. More escapist locations
    4. Ditch the corny one-liners (They don't work with Daniel very well)
    5. Bring back Martin Campbell (I know Sam's coming back ;-)
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    edited December 2013 Posts: 28,694
    Please dear fans. The topic name includes this:
    'Which ELEMENT Bond 24 should have to tackle EVERY bit of criticism that surrounded 'SKYFALL'.

    In the end it's about the net, total package that makes or breaks a Bond film. All elements combined together. But until then we are gathering and discussing certain elements of a Bond film that should be improved to tackle criticism.
    And that's what we've been doing for 17 pages. Issues?
    Now, we all say "Aaah, the gunbarrel at the end actually worked quite well". But I heard different voices during the screenings of 'Skyfall'.

    Yeah, they're called opinions, and believe it or not, you're going to have two separate groups for or against everything, be it gun barrels, abortions, candidates competing in a political election or more. Hardly a conclusive point there, and merely a simple assurance that Captain Obvious is still commandeering this ship.
  • Posts: 34
    IMO under no circumstances must there be any reference to any previous bond film or history.... in other words no DB5

    my favorite car of all time by the way but it just does not make any sense... brosnan had it in GE and a breif appearance in TND.. then DC wins one in CR and then we have the original back in SF ????

    i would also like to see his flat/apartment and house keeper like the detailed description in Carte Blanche
  • Posts: 15,117
    tony wrote:
    IMO under no circumstances must there be any reference to any previous bond film or history.... in other words no DB5

    my favorite car of all time by the way but it just does not make any sense... brosnan had it in GE and a breif appearance in TND.. then DC wins one in CR and then we have the original back in SF ????

    i would also like to see his flat/apartment and house keeper like the detailed description in Carte Blanche

    I see no problem with the DB5 in CR and SF, as it is a rebooted continuity. And I do like allusion to previous Bond movies, as it does bring a bit of... continuity.

    As for Bond's flat... Is it a criticism of Skyfall, really? I mean is it something that would have improved the movie, to see the flat and May?
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    Ludovico wrote:
    tony wrote:
    IMO under no circumstances must there be any reference to any previous bond film or history.... in other words no DB5

    my favorite car of all time by the way but it just does not make any sense... brosnan had it in GE and a breif appearance in TND.. then DC wins one in CR and then we have the original back in SF ????

    i would also like to see his flat/apartment and house keeper like the detailed description in Carte Blanche

    I see no problem with the DB5 in CR and SF, as it is a rebooted continuity. And I do like allusion to previous Bond movies, as it does bring a bit of... continuity.

    As for Bond's flat... Is it a criticism of Skyfall, really? I mean is it something that would have improved the movie, to see the flat and May?

    Can't be bothered to go into the DB5 appearing in SF again - there are plenty of threads on that already.

    Not that it particularly bothers me but I do think there was a missed opportunity to introduce May in SF. She could have either been Kincaide and the film plays out the same or she is Mrs Kincaide and he dies during the fight.

    In any event in B24 she could be a stock character, not in every film perhaps but there in the background.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    edited December 2013 Posts: 28,694
    Ludovico wrote:
    tony wrote:
    IMO under no circumstances must there be any reference to any previous bond film or history.... in other words no DB5

    my favorite car of all time by the way but it just does not make any sense... brosnan had it in GE and a breif appearance in TND.. then DC wins one in CR and then we have the original back in SF ????

    i would also like to see his flat/apartment and house keeper like the detailed description in Carte Blanche

    I see no problem with the DB5 in CR and SF, as it is a rebooted continuity. And I do like allusion to previous Bond movies, as it does bring a bit of... continuity.

    As for Bond's flat... Is it a criticism of Skyfall, really? I mean is it something that would have improved the movie, to see the flat and May?

    Can't be bothered to go into the DB5 appearing in SF again - there are plenty of threads on that already.

    Not that it particularly bothers me but I do think there was a missed opportunity to introduce May in SF. She could have either been Kincaide and the film plays out the same or she is Mrs Kincaide and he dies during the fight.

    In any event in B24 she could be a stock character, not in every film perhaps but there in the background.

    Wow, and you give Purvis and Wade a rough time... ;)
  • Not that it particularly bothers me but I do think there was a missed opportunity to introduce May in SF. She could have either been Kincaide and the film plays out the same or she is Mrs Kincaide and he dies during the fight.

    In any event in B24 she could be a stock character, not in every film perhaps but there in the background.

    Wow, and you give Purvis and Wade a rough time... ;)

    Hahahaha!
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    I don't ever want to see May in a Bond film. She really isn't needed at all as has been proven these past 50 years. We have the MI6 regulars to deal with as it is.
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