SPECTRE: TOP 5 elements "SPECTRE" must have to tackle all criticism that surrounded "SKYFALL"

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  • Posts: 3,276
    1. One or two more big action set pieces
    2. A better score
    3. Better production design.
    4. Gadgets. "What where you expecting - an exploding pen?". Yes, actually I was.
    5. A couple of memorable one-liners.
  • Posts: 11,425
    Zekidk wrote: »
    1. One or two more big action set pieces
    2. A better score
    3. Better production design.
    4. Gadgets. "What where you expecting - an exploding pen?". Yes, actually I was.
    5. A couple of memorable one-liners.

    Can't argue with that. Why the annoying scene with Q making a big fuss about the exploding pen, when they then included the DB5 complete with machine guns and ejector seat. It was as if Mendes and co were 'too cool' for naff gadgets, but then included the most iconic of them all by riffing on past glories - hypocritical and lazy.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    edited July 2014 Posts: 9,117
    Getafix wrote: »
    Zekidk wrote: »
    1. One or two more big action set pieces
    2. A better score
    3. Better production design.
    4. Gadgets. "What where you expecting - an exploding pen?". Yes, actually I was.
    5. A couple of memorable one-liners.

    Can't argue with that. Why the annoying scene with Q making a big fuss about the exploding pen, when they then included the DB5 complete with machine guns and ejector seat. It was as if Mendes and co were 'too cool' for naff gadgets, but then included the most iconic of them all by riffing on past glories - hypocritical and lazy.

    Agree - and whats the point of reintroducing Q if you dont have gadgets? I really dont want to see Bond umbilically tethered to HQ with his earpiece all the time and Q's only function being to direct him around via Google maps.
  • Posts: 11,425
    Getafix wrote: »
    Zekidk wrote: »
    1. One or two more big action set pieces
    2. A better score
    3. Better production design.
    4. Gadgets. "What where you expecting - an exploding pen?". Yes, actually I was.
    5. A couple of memorable one-liners.

    Can't argue with that. Why the annoying scene with Q making a big fuss about the exploding pen, when they then included the DB5 complete with machine guns and ejector seat. It was as if Mendes and co were 'too cool' for naff gadgets, but then included the most iconic of them all by riffing on past glories - hypocritical and lazy.

    Agree - and whats the point of reintroducing Q if you dont have gadgets? I really dont want to see Bond umbilically tethered to HQ with his earpiece all the time and Q's only function being to direct him around via Google maps.

    The earpiece and constant cutting to Bond's handlers at HQ drives me up the wall. He might as well be a drone being controlled from the other side of the world. Hope Mendes cuts Bond free from all that cr*p in B24 and lets him go under the high tech surveillance radar for a bit.
  • Posts: 11,189
    Getafix wrote: »
    Zekidk wrote: »
    1. One or two more big action set pieces
    2. A better score
    3. Better production design.
    4. Gadgets. "What where you expecting - an exploding pen?". Yes, actually I was.
    5. A couple of memorable one-liners.

    Can't argue with that. Why the annoying scene with Q making a big fuss about the exploding pen, when they then included the DB5 complete with machine guns and ejector seat. It was as if Mendes and co were 'too cool' for naff gadgets, but then included the most iconic of them all by riffing on past glories - hypocritical and lazy.

    But he then destroys it if you remember ;)
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    Getafix wrote: »
    Getafix wrote: »
    Zekidk wrote: »
    1. One or two more big action set pieces
    2. A better score
    3. Better production design.
    4. Gadgets. "What where you expecting - an exploding pen?". Yes, actually I was.
    5. A couple of memorable one-liners.

    Can't argue with that. Why the annoying scene with Q making a big fuss about the exploding pen, when they then included the DB5 complete with machine guns and ejector seat. It was as if Mendes and co were 'too cool' for naff gadgets, but then included the most iconic of them all by riffing on past glories - hypocritical and lazy.

    Agree - and whats the point of reintroducing Q if you dont have gadgets? I really dont want to see Bond umbilically tethered to HQ with his earpiece all the time and Q's only function being to direct him around via Google maps.

    The earpiece and constant cutting to Bond's handlers at HQ drives me up the wall. He might as well be a drone being controlled from the other side of the world. Hope Mendes cuts Bond free from all that cr*p in B24 and lets him go under the high tech surveillance radar for a bit.

    CR and QOS were bad enough when Bond is constantly on the blower to M to justify Judi Dench's fee but SF just turned it up to 11.

    The opening act of the next Bond film should go - GB, massive stunt laden PTS, title sequence, Bond says hello to Moneypenny (2 minute scene), gets his mission from M (5 minute scene), gets the odd gadget from Q (5 minute scene) then goes out in the field. At his first contact with the villain he is stripped down and all his phones and homers are found and smashed to buggery and after that HE IS ON HIS OWN.

    Its really not that difficult.

    Not going to happen of course. Fiennes, Wishaw, Harris and Kinnear arent going to come cheap and EON will want to get more than a sum total of 12 mins screen time out of them.
  • Posts: 908
    Getafix wrote: »
    Getafix wrote: »
    Zekidk wrote: »
    1. One or two more big action set pieces
    2. A better score
    3. Better production design.
    4. Gadgets. "What where you expecting - an exploding pen?". Yes, actually I was.
    5. A couple of memorable one-liners.

    Can't argue with that. Why the annoying scene with Q making a big fuss about the exploding pen, when they then included the DB5 complete with machine guns and ejector seat. It was as if Mendes and co were 'too cool' for naff gadgets, but then included the most iconic of them all by riffing on past glories - hypocritical and lazy.

    Agree - and whats the point of reintroducing Q if you dont have gadgets? I really dont want to see Bond umbilically tethered to HQ with his earpiece all the time and Q's only function being to direct him around via Google maps.

    The earpiece and constant cutting to Bond's handlers at HQ drives me up the wall. He might as well be a drone being controlled from the other side of the world. Hope Mendes cuts Bond free from all that cr*p in B24 and lets him go under the high tech surveillance radar for a bit.

    CR and QOS were bad enough when Bond is constantly on the blower to M to justify Judi Dench's fee but SF just turned it up to 11.

    The opening act of the next Bond film should go - GB, massive stunt laden PTS, title sequence, Bond says hello to Moneypenny (2 minute scene), gets his mission from M (5 minute scene), gets the odd gadget from Q (5 minute scene) then goes out in the field. At his first contact with the villain he is stripped down and all his phones and homers are found and smashed to buggery and after that HE IS ON HIS OWN.

    Its really not that difficult.

    Not going to happen of course. Fiennes, Wishaw, Harris and Kinnear arent going to come cheap and EON will want to get more than a sum total of 12 mins screen time out of them.

    I very rarely say so,but I agree with each and every word and conclusion in this post of yours!
  • Posts: 11,425
    Nice to see everyone agreeing for once!
  • Posts: 1,631
    I'm not sure I could limit it to just 5 things that they need to fix, but here goes:

    1. A story that is at least remotely plausible
    2. No Bond/M trust/parental issues
    3. No callbacks/tributes/homages/etc. to the 23 films that precede it.
    4. Actually film in the locations rather than using studio backlot to fill in for just about everything.
    5. If there are going to be one-liners, make them funny this time around. If they're not funny, then let's just not have them.
  • Posts: 2,341
    @Matt_Helm
    You spot on. Its not rocket science and its not a brain tumor. Yes, I can see EON wanting to expand the roles and give more screen time to Fiennes, Harris, and even Whishaw.
    I love Fiennes and Harris and Whishaw is so interesting that EON might see it as a waste of their talents. M and Moneypenny both have some backstory that we were treated to and I care about them.
    I guess the days of cardboard M, Moneypenny, Q are behind us now.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,968
    Getafix wrote: »
    Getafix wrote: »
    Zekidk wrote: »
    1. One or two more big action set pieces
    2. A better score
    3. Better production design.
    4. Gadgets. "What where you expecting - an exploding pen?". Yes, actually I was.
    5. A couple of memorable one-liners.

    Can't argue with that. Why the annoying scene with Q making a big fuss about the exploding pen, when they then included the DB5 complete with machine guns and ejector seat. It was as if Mendes and co were 'too cool' for naff gadgets, but then included the most iconic of them all by riffing on past glories - hypocritical and lazy.

    Agree - and whats the point of reintroducing Q if you dont have gadgets? I really dont want to see Bond umbilically tethered to HQ with his earpiece all the time and Q's only function being to direct him around via Google maps.

    The earpiece and constant cutting to Bond's handlers at HQ drives me up the wall. He might as well be a drone being controlled from the other side of the world. Hope Mendes cuts Bond free from all that cr*p in B24 and lets him go under the high tech surveillance radar for a bit.

    CR and QOS were bad enough when Bond is constantly on the blower to M to justify Judi Dench's fee but SF just turned it up to 11.

    The opening act of the next Bond film should go - GB, massive stunt laden PTS, title sequence, Bond says hello to Moneypenny (2 minute scene), gets his mission from M (5 minute scene), gets the odd gadget from Q (5 minute scene) then goes out in the field. At his first contact with the villain he is stripped down and all his phones and homers are found and smashed to buggery and after that HE IS ON HIS OWN.

    Its really not that difficult.

    Not going to happen of course. Fiennes, Wishaw, Harris and Kinnear arent going to come cheap and EON will want to get more than a sum total of 12 mins screen time out of them.

    I would be more than happy if this happened, but I don't see it happening, either. Like you said, they won't come cheap to star in the film for just a few minutes.
  • Posts: 1,631
    We're definitely going to see the role of M permanently become a co-starring role along with Bond in the franchise from this point forward. Bond's really no longer a solo agent sent into the field and trusted to get the job done, relying only on visits from M when absolutely necessary. Now, he's part of something more like a Mission: Impossible team, where he's just a part of a group.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,968
    dalton wrote: »
    We're definitely going to see the role of M permanently become a co-starring role along with Bond in the franchise from this point forward. Bond's really no longer a solo agent sent into the field and trusted to get the job done, relying only on visits from M when absolutely necessary. Now, he's part of something more like a Mission: Impossible team, where he's just a part of a group.

    Which, when worded like that, is a terrible, terrible idea.
  • Posts: 6,396
    dalton wrote: »
    We're definitely going to see the role of M permanently become a co-starring role along with Bond in the franchise from this point forward. Bond's really no longer a solo agent sent into the field and trusted to get the job done, relying only on visits from M when absolutely necessary. Now, he's part of something more like a Mission: Impossible team, where he's just a part of a group.

    And you know this how exactly?
  • Posts: 1,631
    dalton wrote: »
    We're definitely going to see the role of M permanently become a co-starring role along with Bond in the franchise from this point forward. Bond's really no longer a solo agent sent into the field and trusted to get the job done, relying only on visits from M when absolutely necessary. Now, he's part of something more like a Mission: Impossible team, where he's just a part of a group.

    And you know this how exactly?

    As someone already said, they're not paying for people of Dench and Fiennes' stature and not give them anything to do. We saw M become far more involved once Dench took over the reigns to the point that she did become a co-star to Bond in the films, especially the last 3. There's no reason to believe that it won't continue with Fiennes, given that it's EON's belief that if you have an actor of that caliber, then you should find something for them to do.


  • Posts: 11,189
    People have said this on here before but Bond is just in that post 24 world. Anyone who's seen 24 will know that Jack is always on the phone to somebody (colleagues, president, direct superior etc).
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    Hmm, I'm not entirely convinced that M and MP will have the expanded roles that some if you are suggesting. Sure, we have recognisable actors cast in these roles and it's not hard to imagine that we'll definitely get more screen time than the Lee/Maxwell template but I don't think we'll be getting mission impossible-esque team dynamics either.

    On a slightly different note I do find it interesting that some people are worried about such screen times yet, particularly in the case of M, many people here were wishing we'd visit Ireland for Bond24 to delve into M's back story with the whole IRA business. Surely, such a scenario would result in doing precisely what people are saying now what they don't want and that's too much screen time from supporting cast members.
  • Posts: 15,117
    dalton wrote: »
    dalton wrote: »
    We're definitely going to see the role of M permanently become a co-starring role along with Bond in the franchise from this point forward. Bond's really no longer a solo agent sent into the field and trusted to get the job done, relying only on visits from M when absolutely necessary. Now, he's part of something more like a Mission: Impossible team, where he's just a part of a group.

    And you know this how exactly?

    As someone already said, they're not paying for people of Dench and Fiennes' stature and not give them anything to do. We saw M become far more involved once Dench took over the reigns to the point that she did become a co-star to Bond in the films, especially the last 3. There's no reason to believe that it won't continue with Fiennes, given that it's EON's belief that if you have an actor of that caliber, then you should find something for them to do.


    But even in the novels, M played a larger role than in the movies. He was not merely giving Bond's missions: he was the Mycroft to his Sherlock, being able to see what Bond and others couldn't. In MR he is the first one suspecting there is something not quite right with Drax, in TB he is the one deducing Blofeld's plan, etc. I have no problem with a M being involved like this. Especially of played by Fiennes!
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,968
    @doubleoego, going off of SF, that's how it seems it was. He had assistance the entire time he was in Istanbul (aside from his ride back to London), he goes through training, manages to make it on his own through Shanghai, requires Eve's help for surveillance and fighting in Macau, has the backup fly in on Silva's island, then Q walks him through almost the entire chase in London, and then it's 'Home Alone meets Bond' in Scotland. Let him get his mission, his flirting, and his gadgets done with, and let him be on his own for the rest of the film. Bits of this happened in CR and QoS but nowhere near as much as in SF. I don't want him calling home and reporting in every five minutes, or having that earpiece glued to his head at all times.
  • Posts: 6,396
    dalton wrote: »
    dalton wrote: »
    We're definitely going to see the role of M permanently become a co-starring role along with Bond in the franchise from this point forward. Bond's really no longer a solo agent sent into the field and trusted to get the job done, relying only on visits from M when absolutely necessary. Now, he's part of something more like a Mission: Impossible team, where he's just a part of a group.

    And you know this how exactly?

    As someone already said, they're not paying for people of Dench and Fiennes' stature and not give them anything to do. We saw M become far more involved once Dench took over the reigns to the point that she did become a co-star to Bond in the films, especially the last 3. There's no reason to believe that it won't continue with Fiennes, given that it's EON's belief that if you have an actor of that caliber, then you should find something for them to do.


    I agree that Fiennes will have a big role to play, more so than Bernard Lee or Robert Brown ever did.

    But that does not necessarily mean M will be a "co-star" alongside Bond nor that the series is morphing into some kind of Mission Impossible.
  • Posts: 15,117
    dalton wrote: »
    dalton wrote: »
    We're definitely going to see the role of M permanently become a co-starring role along with Bond in the franchise from this point forward. Bond's really no longer a solo agent sent into the field and trusted to get the job done, relying only on visits from M when absolutely necessary. Now, he's part of something more like a Mission: Impossible team, where he's just a part of a group.

    And you know this how exactly?

    As someone already said, they're not paying for people of Dench and Fiennes' stature and not give them anything to do. We saw M become far more involved once Dench took over the reigns to the point that she did become a co-star to Bond in the films, especially the last 3. There's no reason to believe that it won't continue with Fiennes, given that it's EON's belief that if you have an actor of that caliber, then you should find something for them to do.


    I agree that Fiennes will have a big role to play, more so than Bernard Lee or Robert Brown ever did.

    But that does not necessarily mean M will be a "co-star" alongside Bond nor that the series is morphing into some kind of Mission Impossible.

    Agreed. See my post above.
  • Posts: 1,631
    dalton wrote: »
    dalton wrote: »
    We're definitely going to see the role of M permanently become a co-starring role along with Bond in the franchise from this point forward. Bond's really no longer a solo agent sent into the field and trusted to get the job done, relying only on visits from M when absolutely necessary. Now, he's part of something more like a Mission: Impossible team, where he's just a part of a group.

    And you know this how exactly?

    As someone already said, they're not paying for people of Dench and Fiennes' stature and not give them anything to do. We saw M become far more involved once Dench took over the reigns to the point that she did become a co-star to Bond in the films, especially the last 3. There's no reason to believe that it won't continue with Fiennes, given that it's EON's belief that if you have an actor of that caliber, then you should find something for them to do.


    I agree that Fiennes will have a big role to play, more so than Bernard Lee or Robert Brown ever did.

    But that does not necessarily mean M will be a "co-star" alongside Bond nor that the series is morphing into some kind of Mission Impossible.

    The series has already done a good deal of morphing towards becoming something like M:I. All of the points that @Creasy47 makes in his post above shows how Skyfall is the realization of the changes that began once Dench took over as M in GoldenEye.

    Bond couldn't do anything in Skyfall without being in contact, or in the presence of, someone on the MI6 team. Moneypenny's in the field with him quite a bit, Q and M are constant presences in his earpiece. Yes, Bond's still the main star of it all, but I think gone are the days when Bond is a lone wolf sent by his superiors to solve a problem and is then left alone to do his job.

  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,968
    I just hope Mendes sticks by his word and B24 is radically different than SF. I want there to be trust between the two. No more 'Bond is a rogue agent' or 'What the hell are you doing, Bond?' Just make it a straight-forward mission this time around.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    dalton wrote: »
    The series has already done a good deal of morphing towards becoming something like M:I. All of the points that @Creasy47 makes in his post above shows how Skyfall is the realization of the changes that began once Dench took over as M in GoldenEye.
    Not really Dench was only in two scenes in GoldenEye. She observed the damage of Severnaya and gave Bond his mission and sent him on his way. I'd say her role was getting bigger by TND.
  • Posts: 1,631
    Murdock wrote: »
    dalton wrote: »
    The series has already done a good deal of morphing towards becoming something like M:I. All of the points that @Creasy47 makes in his post above shows how Skyfall is the realization of the changes that began once Dench took over as M in GoldenEye.
    Not really Dench was only in two scenes in GoldenEye. She observed the damage of Severnaya and gave Bond his mission and sent him on his way. I'd say her role was getting bigger by TND.

    True. I was just making the point that the change began once Dench took over. She has a small role in GoldenEye, which then grew into something more substantial in Tomorrow Never Dies, as you pointed out, and then it continued to grow until she became arguably the primary "Bond girl" in Skyfall.
  • Posts: 2,341
    In the past landing quality talent has led them to have big roles. Walken was the main villain in AVTAK and another Academy Award winner, Halle Berry (Gawd!) plays the heroine in DAD.
    Fiennes is a quality character actor and at one time was considered to replace Dalton. He will most certainly get his hands "dirty" like he did in SF.

    I think the comments about the "post 24" world is spot on. Bond films are constantly evolving . Craig will continue to play a more realistic agent and he will have a supporting cast who remains proactive from now on. Ala Jack Bauer.
  • M_BaljeM_Balje Amsterdam, Netherlands
    Posts: 4,516
    Biggest inprovement wil be that full time with Bond on better way then in Skyfall before he returns/have contact with Mi6. Skyfall fails because it whas not exited/intresting enough before Eve returns. That we don't see how Bond surfifed under the ice.

    Don't vergot now Dench M is gone, the higher boss of Bond and New M:
    Foreign Secretary (Tim Pigott-Smith) and Clair Dowar (Helen McCrory) or people who work for them take over the control.
  • Posts: 11,425
    It's depressing but a statement of fact that Bond has already become a bit of an ensamble 'family' drama, with all the star actors requiring more and more screen time. Those who say it won't happen need to catch up - it's happened already. The change happened progressively throughout the Brosnan era and brought us to the point in SF where they rehashed the GE and TWINE plots and gave us an M who is almost a more significant character than Bond.

    I fear we will get more of the same in B24. That said, I willl be much happier watching Fiennes, who is an excellent actor, than Dench, who is okay but was massively overrated as M.
  • Posts: 1,631
    Well said @Getafix. The whole team, or family, aspect of the films is something that has already found its place in the Bond franchise, steadily building and building little by little starting in the Brosnan films and then really kicked into gear with the reboot.
  • Posts: 3,276
    So no more "you are on your own now, Bond"? Depressing thought!
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