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SPECTRE: TOP 5 elements "SPECTRE" must have to tackle all criticism that surrounded "SKYFALL"

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  • jetsetwillyjetsetwilly
    Posts: 3,327
    1. Scenes taken from the Fleming books.

    2. A better score than SF, sounding more like John Barry (I wish Arnold would return).

    3. More blood and violence. Craig's first 2 films had this in spades, then suddenly we revert to a clean, less brutal world in SF.

    4. Gunbarrel opening.

    5. A more traditional storyline, with Bond being briefed by M to go on a new mission, and Bond getting the girl at the end. As cheesy as it is, it would be nice to see this in just one of the Craig films, which so far have all had bleak endings.

  • nikos78nikos78
    Posts: 150
    Sark wrote: »
    No plotholes.

    Fun.

    Gunbarrel at start.

    This time it's not personal.

    Skiing.

    My thoughts exactly!!!
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    edited February 2015 Posts: 11,139
    I don't want Batista wasted. He's supposed to be a badass henchman that will allegedly gain iconic status and for that they need to get Batista to unleash the "animal".

    The fights in fast and furious 7 are going to be crazy and here's just a taster gif of the rock layin' the smacks own on Jason Statham.

    Dgh570T.gif


    Bond and Hinx need to go at it!
  • GetafixGetafix
    Posts: 11,425
    I'm trying to avoid any info about SP. I want to really enjoy this one. Most of what I've heard so far sounds good though. I feel much more positive in advance than I did about SF, where the whole M-dominated storyline made my heart sink before I'd even seen it.
  • Gustav_GravesGustav_Graves
    Posts: 11,119
    Gustav_Graves wrote: »
    Let's have a look at the TOP 20 from the list :-P:
    So, here is the list of 'Most frequent mentionings of aspects/elements that could be improved for Bond 24' as of February 18th 2015[/b]:

    32 MENTIONINGS -> 'GUNBARREL BACK AT THE START'
    20 mentionings --> 'Return of more psychotic Ernst Blofeld (Christoph Waltz?)' *a BIG CHECK :-P*
    19 mentionings --> 'Better memorable music score/No Thomas Newman'
    18 mentionings --> 'Bond bedding a real Bond-girl in the end'
    17 mentionings --> 'James Bond in snow/Ski scenes' *CHECK :-P*
    17 mentionings --> 'Simple, plain mission briefing in M's office' *CHECK, Naomie Harris confirms: behind the desk*
    13 mentionings --> 'Larger role for Felix Leiter'
    11 mentionings --> 'Soak up culture/escapist, glamorous locations, smarter use' *Almost CHECK, because snowy Austria, Day of the Death Festival in Mexico ;-)?*
    10 mentionings --> 'Better screenplay/story/more effective one-liners for Bond' *CHECK, already more mystery about the plot*
    10 mentionings --> 'Better fist fights, tougher James Bond'
    ====================================================
    09 mentionings --> 'Memorable henchman/henchwoman (Tilda Swinton?)' *CHECK, both Dave Bautista & Brigitte Millar :-P*
    07 mentionings --> 'Return of crime syndicate QUANTUM' *CHECK, Mr White returns*
    07 mentionings --> 'More clever, less brutal action'
    07 mentionings --> 'More funny Q-gadgets' *Almost CHECK, Aston Martin DB10*
    06 mentionings --> 'Return of S.P.E.C.T.R.E.' *CHECK :-P*
    06 mentionings --> 'Bring in Formula One racing, new kind of carchase ('Rush')'
    06 mentionings --> 'A straightforward grand escapist Bond adventure (Thunderball-style?)'
    06 mentionings --> 'Lush, escapist production design'
    04 mentionings --> 'Return of Barry's 007 theme'
    04 mentionings --> 'Commander James Bond 007 in naval uniform'
  • JCRendleJCRendle
    edited February 2015 Posts: 1,552
    Gustav_Graves wrote: »
    Let's have a look at the TOP 20 from the list :-P:
    So, here is the list of 'Most frequent mentionings of aspects/elements that could be improved for Bond 24' as of February 18th 2015[/b]:

    32 MENTIONINGS -> 'GUNBARREL BACK AT THE START'
    20 mentionings --> 'Return of more psychotic Ernst Blofeld (Christoph Waltz?)' *a BIG CHECK :-P*
    err, no. We don't know that Waltz is playing Blofeld or not - so no, not a "BIG CHECK"
    Gustav_Graves wrote: »
    19 mentionings --> 'Better memorable music score/No Thomas Newman'
    18 mentionings --> 'Bond bedding a real Bond-girl in the end'
    17 mentionings --> 'James Bond in snow/Ski scenes' *CHECK :-P*
    17 mentionings --> 'Simple, plain mission briefing in M's office' *CHECK, Naomie Harris confirms: behind the desk*
    Just because Moneypenny is behind her desk, it doesn't indicate whether Bond will be seeing M for a mission briefing or even if Bond will be involved in the scene, so far it's conjecture.
    Gustav_Graves wrote: »
    13 mentionings --> 'Larger role for Felix Leiter'
    11 mentionings --> 'Soak up culture/escapist, glamorous locations, smarter use' *Almost CHECK, because snowy Austria, Day of the Death Festival in Mexico ;-)?*
    Whilst there's a lot of evidence for DotD - nothing confirmed.
    Gustav_Graves wrote: »
    10 mentionings --> 'Better screenplay/story/more effective one-liners for Bond' *CHECK, already more mystery about the plot*
    This is up to the opinion of those who have read the script - You've said several times you haven't read it, so you can't CHECK
    Gustav_Graves wrote: »
    10 mentionings --> 'Better fist fights, tougher James Bond'
    ====================================================
    09 mentionings --> 'Memorable henchman/henchwoman (Tilda Swinton?)' *CHECK, both Dave Bautista & Brigitte Millar :-P*
    We don't know if Brigitte Millar is playing a henchwoman, all we have is rumour. All we know is Dave Bautista is playing a henchman.
    Gustav_Graves wrote: »
    07 mentionings --> 'Return of crime syndicate QUANTUM' *CHECK, Mr White returns*
    07 mentionings --> 'More clever, less brutal action'
    07 mentionings --> 'More funny Q-gadgets' *Almost CHECK, Aston Martin DB10*
    Does a car count as a gadget?
    Gustav_Graves wrote: »
    06 mentionings --> 'Return of S.P.E.C.T.R.E.' *CHECK :-P*
    06 mentionings --> 'Bring in Formula One racing, new kind of carchase ('Rush')'
    06 mentionings --> 'A straightforward grand escapist Bond adventure (Thunderball-style?)'
    06 mentionings --> 'Lush, escapist production design'
    04 mentionings --> 'Return of Barry's 007 theme'
    04 mentionings --> 'Commander James Bond 007 in naval uniform'
    [/quote]
  • jetsetwillyjetsetwilly
    Posts: 3,327
    Interesting that Thomas Newman's score (or lack of) is nearing the top of that list. I thought it was just me that felt this way about his insipid SF score, but apparently others felt the same too. To me its actually one of the worst scores in the entire franchise, worse than GE, worse than FYEO, worse than the 70s disco TSWLM and worse than LTK.

    I think Arnold was going a bit unappreciated around here and on others Bond forums, but now that he has been absent, we all realise how much he was contributing to the films, particularly his last 2 which I think are up there with Barry's best, and I've noticed quite a few members here are coming round to this way of thinking too.

    Tracks like Night of the Opera and Vesper's theme really evoke John Barry. QoS has a foot firmly in the retro sounding Barry 1971 era. I think the weakest part of SF is actually the soundtrack (yes, far worse than the numerous plot holes).

    I really hope Newman pulls out something better this time round, and I really hope Arnold returns for Craig's next outing.
  • Campbell2Campbell2 Epsilon Rho Rho house, Bending State University
    Posts: 299
    Can SPECTRE tackle every criticism of SF??? I doubt it.
    But just for fun my 5 are
    more Fleming, a story that doesn't show too many plot holes, some skiing, some cable car action and not so much MI6 shenanigans. Give me that and my hopes are high. Though I see why SF had to use MI6 so much, story called for it
  • Matt007Matt007
    Posts: 1,314
    Gustav - well done you called several confirmed plot details 2 years ago!

    I thought Newmans score was superb.
  • ZekidkZekidk
    Posts: 3,276
    JCRendle wrote: »
    Whilst there's a lot of evidence for DotD - nothing confirmed.
    Well, 1500 extras have been cast. Many of them titled "skeletons" and so forth... So maybe it's DotD. Maybe it's zombies. ;-)

    Regarding "Better screenplay/story/more effective one-liners for Bond":
    I have read the final script twice, and yes, SP has a much better screenplay and better one-liners, IMO.
  • JCRendleJCRendle
    Posts: 1,552
    Zekidk wrote: »
    JCRendle wrote: »
    Whilst there's a lot of evidence for DotD - nothing confirmed.
    Well, 1500 extras have been cast. Many of them titled "skeletons" and so forth... So maybe it's DotD. Maybe it's zombies. ;-)

    Regarding "Better screenplay/story/more effective one-liners for Bond":
    I have read the final script twice, and yes, SP has a much better screenplay and better one-liners, IMO.
    True, but confirmed has a specific meaning ;) but I do agree - we are going to have a DotD scene.
  • gkleingklein
    Posts: 154
    Gustav_Graves wrote: »
    Gustav_Graves wrote: »
    Let's have a look at the TOP 20 from the list :-P:
    So, here is the list of 'Most frequent mentionings of aspects/elements that could be improved for Bond 24' as of February 18th 2015[/b]:

    32 MENTIONINGS -> 'GUNBARREL BACK AT THE START'
    20 mentionings --> 'Return of more psychotic Ernst Blofeld (Christoph Waltz?)' *a BIG CHECK :-P*
    19 mentionings --> 'Better memorable music score/No Thomas Newman'
    18 mentionings --> 'Bond bedding a real Bond-girl in the end'
    17 mentionings --> 'James Bond in snow/Ski scenes' *CHECK :-P*
    17 mentionings --> 'Simple, plain mission briefing in M's office' *CHECK, Naomie Harris confirms: behind the desk*
    13 mentionings --> 'Larger role for Felix Leiter'
    11 mentionings --> 'Soak up culture/escapist, glamorous locations, smarter use' *Almost CHECK, because snowy Austria, Day of the Death Festival in Mexico ;-)?*
    10 mentionings --> 'Better screenplay/story/more effective one-liners for Bond' *CHECK, already more mystery about the plot*
    10 mentionings --> 'Better fist fights, tougher James Bond'
    ====================================================
    09 mentionings --> 'Memorable henchman/henchwoman (Tilda Swinton?)' *CHECK, both Dave Bautista & Brigitte Millar :-P*
    07 mentionings --> 'Return of crime syndicate QUANTUM' *CHECK, Mr White returns*
    07 mentionings --> 'More clever, less brutal action'
    07 mentionings --> 'More funny Q-gadgets' *Almost CHECK, Aston Martin DB10*
    06 mentionings --> 'Return of S.P.E.C.T.R.E.' *CHECK :-P*
    06 mentionings --> 'Bring in Formula One racing, new kind of carchase ('Rush')'
    06 mentionings --> 'A straightforward grand escapist Bond adventure (Thunderball-style?)'
    06 mentionings --> 'Lush, escapist production design'
    04 mentionings --> 'Return of Barry's 007 theme'
    04 mentionings --> 'Commander James Bond 007 in naval uniform'

    I know it's late in the game for this, & I'm mostly echoing what has already been said, but here goes:

    1) A cohesive modern story, without major plot faults (I know this one is impossible for a Bond movie), focused on issues from TODAY's headlines. The middle east should come into play (I know it's too late for this) -- NOT Hong Kong (which has appeared many times in Bond movies). No tired revenge stories. If it must be personal, then focus on something of importance to Bond's FUTURE, rather than dredging-up, and further convoluting, his past.
    2) A few more elaborate and fantastic, but gritty and realistic (yes, I know that's tough balance), truly Bondian-action set-pieces, to replace the boring bombastic action of SF.
    3) I'm gonna count the following as one item, called Bond movie housekeeping: gunbarrel back to the beginning, more extensive use of a modern version of the Bond theme, a better score, use of Felix Leiter character.
    4) More fun (without getting silly or becoming a comedy) while keeping it somewhat serious, more adventure, more espionage, more detective work, irony.
    5) Cool gadgets. Many Bond gadgets are silly. MI5 had excellent gadgets and should serve as an inspiration.

    Anyway, I know it's too late for this but it would have been my wish list.
  • Gustav_GravesGustav_Graves
    Posts: 11,119
    So are we on our way to a major improvement on "Skyfall"? Do we think "SPECTRE" will be better than "Skyfall"?
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    edited June 2015 Posts: 11,139
    Besting SF isn't that hard. CR preceeded SF and is a superior film. However, SP looks amazing so far and from what I can tell it looks much better than SF and mat actually be better than CR but we'll see.
  • Gustav_GravesGustav_Graves
    Posts: 11,119
    doubleoego wrote: »
    Besting SF isn't that hard. CR preceeded SF and is a superior film. However, SP looks amazing so far and from what I can tell it looks much better than SF and mat actually be better than CR but we'll see.

    I think SP has by far more memorable action sequences so far. I think it even tops CR to that extend. I genuinely think this could be Craig's "Thunderball", with some touches of "OHMSS"-esque drama.

  • AceHoleAceHole Belgium, via Britain
    Posts: 1,731
    Villiers53 wrote: »
    3)A Saville Row tailor for 007.
    Bond is British for God's sake and it's high time somebody got him a good tailor.
    Frankly, Craig's casual wardrobe in SF looked good but his suits were ridiculous. Having him run around in those 'Pee- Wee Herman' outfits made him look like he was in permanent danger of splitting his pants. Get rid of that dreadful Tom Ford stuff and send him to Anderson & Sheppard for the real deal.
    Think Connery in DN & FRWL and you've nailed it.
    Also, whilst it's on my mind, ditch that crass Omega and get the boy a decent Rolex. It was the only watch 007 ever wore!

    Amen to you, sir.
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    Could be. SP definitely will be more epic in scope and atmosphere and tge action set pieces have increased and are much bigger scale. Tge locations are otherworldly and beautiful and the cast are vast and put to classic Bond use. Bond in SP has sexual contact with 3 gorgeous women which is a recoding for the Craig era and the no nonsense Henchman in Mr Hinx is really going to bring Red Grant-esque tension. The chase in Rome will become an iconic highlight I'm sure. So far I'm 100% satisfied with tge results of SP...so far. I just hope the fisticuffs courtesy of Olivier Schneider are used to ma I mum, intense and visceral effect.
  • Gustav_GravesGustav_Graves
    Posts: 11,119
    Is this something we can expect from a gunbarrel sequence for "SPECTRE" ;-)?
  • dominicgreenedominicgreene The Eternal QOS Defender
    Posts: 1,756
    Gustav_Graves wrote: »
    Is this something we can expect from a gunbarrel sequence for "SPECTRE" ;-)?

    I always thought that opening shot was essentially a gunbarrel, just done differently.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    Hopefully the GB will be back in it's correct place. It's the only way to open what should be an enormous film in the franchise.
  • Gustav_GravesGustav_Graves
    Posts: 11,119
    RC7 wrote: »
    Hopefully the GB will be back in it's correct place. It's the only way to open what should be an enormous film in the franchise.

    I'm almost certain it will happen. Now only that part of the leaked script, which has the gunbarrel sequence at the start, can't be leaked enough I think ;-). But that's all I know....
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 15,117
    How about the gb right in the middle?
  • Gustav_GravesGustav_Graves
    Posts: 11,119
    Ludovico wrote: »
    How about the gb right in the middle?

    How about...."NO!" :-P?
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    Ludovico wrote: »
    How about the gb right in the middle?

    Bond fans would have a field day with that one. There'd be blood on the proverbial streets.

  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 15,117
    More seriously, I'd love a gunbarrel integrated to the PTS somewhat.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    Sorry to derail the thread, but when I view this thread half the posts are not aligned properly. Is anyone else having this problem?
  • Seven_Point_Six_FiveSeven_Point_Six_Five Southern California
    Posts: 1,257
    Murdock wrote: »
    Sorry to derail the thread, but when I view this thread half the posts are not aligned properly. Is anyone else having this problem?

    Yes, its a mess
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 15,117
    More seriously, I'd love a gunbarrel integrated to the PTS somewhat.
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 15,117
    Murdock wrote: »
    Sorry to derail the thread, but when I view this thread half the posts are not aligned properly. Is anyone else having this problem?

    Yes here too. And not sure my comments here are published.
  • Suivez_ce_parachuteSuivez_ce_parachute
    Posts: 2,015
    The SF script has the gunbarrel at the beginning according to Mendes.
    And about SP, well if you want some tease, there's something that has never been discussed outside the leaks, never discussed by the media, never shown in the trailers and teasers, etc.. that mean they could artistically create yet another variation on the gunbarrel. It could end on being too close to parody, so they may stick to what is in the script. But there's a strong visual theme in SP that could be used from the very beginning...
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