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SPECTRE: TOP 5 elements "SPECTRE" must have to tackle all criticism that surrounded "SKYFALL"

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  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,438
    What bond fans want is another army vs army fight inside an elaborate base to finish off the film. It's been ages since the last one of those in the living daylights and the demand is higher than ever before.
  • Gustav_GravesGustav_Graves
    Posts: 11,119
    Mendes4Lyfe wrote: »
    What bond fans want is another army vs army fight inside an elaborate base to finish off the film. It's been ages since the last one of those in the living daylights and the demand is higher than ever before.

    I'm not sure if I welcome such a fight. FRWL was perfect IMO, in that it kept the fights small and less elaborate.

    SF to that end was way too elaborate, with that finale.
  • Gustav_GravesGustav_Graves
    edited July 2015 Posts: 11,119
    edit. Sometimes the forum-board software is really doing weird things! Quite irritating :-(.
  • Gustav_GravesGustav_Graves
    edited July 2015 Posts: 11,119
    After watching the full theatrical trailer, how would we actually judge the list so far??
    Gustav_Graves wrote: »
    Let's have a look at the TOP 20 from the list :-P:
    So, here is the list of 'Most frequent mentionings of aspects/elements that could be improved for Bond 24' as of February 18th 2015[/b]:

    32 MENTIONINGS -> 'GUNBARREL BACK AT THE START'
    20 mentionings --> 'Return of more psychotic Ernst Blofeld (Christoph Waltz?)' *a BIG CHECK :-P*
    19 mentionings --> 'Better memorable music score/No Thomas Newman'
    18 mentionings --> 'Bond bedding a real Bond-girl in the end'
    17 mentionings --> 'James Bond in snow/Ski scenes' *CHECK :-P*
    17 mentionings --> 'Simple, plain mission briefing in M's office' *CHECK, Naomie Harris confirms: behind the desk*
    13 mentionings --> 'Larger role for Felix Leiter'
    11 mentionings --> 'Soak up culture/escapist, glamorous locations, smarter use' *Almost CHECK, because snowy Austria, Day of the Death Festival in Mexico ;-)?*
    10 mentionings --> 'Better screenplay/story/more effective one-liners for Bond' *CHECK, already more mystery about the plot*
    10 mentionings --> 'Better fist fights, tougher James Bond'
    ====================================================
    09 mentionings --> 'Memorable henchman/henchwoman (Tilda Swinton?)' *CHECK, both Dave Bautista & Brigitte Millar :-P*
    07 mentionings --> 'Return of crime syndicate QUANTUM' *CHECK, Mr White returns*
    07 mentionings --> 'More clever, less brutal action'
    07 mentionings --> 'More funny Q-gadgets' *Almost CHECK, Aston Martin DB10*
    06 mentionings --> 'Return of S.P.E.C.T.R.E.' *CHECK :-P*
    06 mentionings --> 'Bring in Formula One racing, new kind of carchase ('Rush')'
    06 mentionings --> 'A straightforward grand escapist Bond adventure (Thunderball-style?)'
    06 mentionings --> 'Lush, escapist production design'
    04 mentionings --> 'Return of Barry's 007 theme'
    04 mentionings --> 'Commander James Bond 007 in naval uniform'

    I can give my thoughts:

    --> 'Return of more psychotic Ernst Blofeld':
    I don't know if Blofeld is quite psychotic, but it really seems Blofeld is back. Apparently quite a wish for many fans. But it's not entirely sure just yet. Yes, we get a true 'Blofeld-vibe' when we are seeing Oberhauser utterling lines like: "I'm the author of all your pain". In my opinion just marvellous.

    --> 'Bond bedding a real Bond-girl in the end':
    Well, with three leading Bond-girls in this film, Bond really has more women to deal with as compared to his previous three outings. Seeing Bond making love with both Lucia Sciarra and Madeleine Swann must satisfy every Bond fan here.

    --> 'James Bond in snow/Ski scenes':
    James Bond-007 is 'skiing'.....but this time not with one ski, or an improvised snowboard, but with an airplane! One most absolutely love the dark, cold look and feel of the Austrian sequences in this film. There's even a mysterious clinic on top of that Alp!

    --> 'Simple, plain mission briefing in M's office':
    Simple plain mission briefing in a wonderful classic wooden-panelled office that has a true Bernard Lee-vibe to it?!?!? Agent 007 gets shouted at, is being lectured by our new "M"! This must be another drooling scene for many Bond fans.

    --> 'Soak up culture/escapist, glamorous locations, smarter use':
    Guys, we're getting basically thrown in this during the PTS of "SPECTRE"! There's this wonderful "Dia De Los Muertos"-carnaval that's the stage for a gripping opening foot chase. And it doesn't stop there. We have a bunch of FRWL-esque scenes in an oriental old train....in Morocco. Do not forget: Morocco has been the setting for quite a lot of spy stories.

    --> Memorable henchman/henchwoman:
    Another "Check"! By jolly, we're in for a treat with Dave Bautista as the large henchman Mr Hinx. It seems he even has his own signature kill. Perhaps he's snapping necks of people by getting a good grip in one's eye socket. I don't know if that's some kind of signature kill, but it does look like it! And let's not forget that there still is some mystery surrounding the characters of Andrew Scott and Brigitte Millar. Brigitte Millar plays a German S.P.E.C.T.R.E.-member, called Dr Vogel.

    --> 'Return of crime syndicate QUANTUM'/'Return of S.P.E.C.T.R.E.:
    Well, what else do you want me to say?? Even QUANTUM's Mr White returns! As a lead/build-up towards uncovering S.P.E.C.T.R.E.?

    --> 'More funny Q-gadgets':
    There's an entire Q-Branch scene in this film, with even a larger role for "Q". But one has to loveeee that Aston Martin DB10, which seems to be equipped with several gadgets in test-phase, of which we already saw the flame thrower. But who knows what more we get to see. Ooowh, and they were also working on a few other Aston Martin's, including the DB5, with stripped off bumpers. Could it be a present for 007 :-P?

    --> 'Formula One racing':
    I always found it a great idea to situate parts of Bond's adventures on a Formula One racing track. It seems this will happen in the new James Bond novel 'Trigger Mortis'. But hell, just look at the parts of the chase sequence in Rome. That must feel like some proper "Bullitt"-esque car racing no?

    --> 'Lush, escapist production design':
    I must say, I love Dennis Gassner. What he did to the last three Bond films is absolutely stunning. And in this film we'll see a true Ken Adam-esque climax that we all wanted. Did anyone see Oberhauser's lair? Or the S.P.E.C.T.R.E.-board room? Lush, mysterious, escapist. It should make every Bond fan drool!

    --> 'Commander James Bond 007 in naval uniform':
    Well, that's not the case for this film. Apparently, so far. But we DO know that agent 007 will be wearing an ivory-white Tom Ford tuxedo! It's another Bond fan's wet dream coming true! The first time since Roger Moore's last outing as 007 in "A View To A Kill". And how! Perhaps Daniel Craig/Tom Ford are setting a fashion standard again? Perhaps people are daring enough again to wear white dinner jackets??

    --> A straightforward grand escapist Bond adventure (Thunderball-style?)':
    It seems "SPECTRE" will be Craig's quintessential Bond-film, looking at the above points. But let me tell you this: EON Productions did follow their own narrative path during the course of 4 films. They didn't give in to sometimes straightforward unfriendly and humiliating criticism about Daniel Craig, the lack of gadgets and the ongoing anti-Craig blogs. Actually, I think it's safe to say that we have arrived at this 4th Bond-film, in which Daniel Craig actually has become the man we all love within this universe of sexy women, exotic locale, the mystery of espionage and all these gadgets. BUT it was done in a slow and nuanced way, that connects all four Bond films together. It is now absolutely a 'must' to speak about a true Ian Fleming Quadrilogy of Bond films. The late Fleming, Saltzman and 'Cubby' must have felt delighted about this. It is indeed a wonderful time to be a Bond fan!
  • Gustav_GravesGustav_Graves
    edited July 2015 Posts: 11,119
    edit
  • w2bondw2bond is indeed a very rare breed
    Posts: 2,252
    I dunno about F1 racing, but surely the two non-production cars featured make up for that wish :D
  • LudovicoLudovico
    Posts: 15,218
    A lot of things on this things is ridiculous as criticism. I'm all for the return of Blofeld and SPECTRE and have been for years. But that was not a flaw of SF not to have him.
  • MisterDanDMisterDanD London
    Posts: 6
    I think DC's last 3 films have all been about Spectre. A Slow burn.

    In CR the death of Vesper.. and now a reference from Oberhausen " The author of all your pain "
    In QoS , Mr White, we have people everywhere.. it reminded me then of Spectre, nothing really came of it.
    in SkyFall, the link to his family home, the secrets which lead unto Spectre.

    Aslong as they tie these stories up and explain Franz more. I personally don't think Franz will be Blofeld, I think that is yet to come.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 41,009
    The aspects that come to mind are much better fight scenes, less plot holes, and keep out any awful-looking CGI.
  • GetafixGetafix
    Posts: 11,425
    I am glad that Mendes appears to be man enough to embrace QoS and tie up a few loose ends.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 41,009
    @Getafix, as am I, that's all I really wanted when it was coming down to SPECTRE: don't leave QUANTUM in the dust and never mention it again, please.
  • GetafixGetafix
    Posts: 11,425
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    @Getafix, as am I, that's all I really wanted when it was coming down to SPECTRE: don't leave QUANTUM in the dust and never mention it again, please.

    Agreed. No need for Quantum to be drawn out more than necessary
  • Gustav_GravesGustav_Graves
    Posts: 11,119
    The gunbarrel sequence is at the start boys ;-)! And it's on this image (thanks a lot @MarcFC15):
    http://cubeupload.com/im/tQrCoo.jpg
    Sam Mendes wrote:
    Q: You're shooting the gunbarrel sequence tomorrow aren't you?
    Mendes: "Who told you that? Well, there was last time, too. I probably said this to you last time [...with "SkyFall"]. I tried to put it in at the beginning of the movie but then I realised -and probably should have known this before- that our first shot was Bond walking towards the camera with a gun raised.
    So you followed the gunbarrel with a shot of Bond with his gun raised. I couldn't use it. It looked like we'd just seen it. So [with "SkyFall"] I put it at the end, even though I remember, as a kid, it was one of the best bits. It was like Christmas Eve -this is actually about to happen! This is it, the Bond movie's about to start. It's a great feeling. I really wanted to put it in "SkyFall".
    I definitely will try to put it in front of the film ["SPECTRE] this time.    "
    Craig: "For Christ's sake, Sam, don't commit."

  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    I really need to see some visceral fisticuffs
  • Gustav_GravesGustav_Graves
    Posts: 11,119
    doubleoego wrote: »
    I really need to see some visceral fisticuffs

    Why is that? What....do you mean actually? :-P.
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    I want to see some serious and credible fights. Other than the all too brief and limited Shanghai fight scene, the fights in SF were disappointing. The fights need to be creative, hard hitting and engaging.
  • GetafixGetafix
    Posts: 11,425
    Surely there must be a good fight with Hinx?

    I really wish they'd given him a different name. Why or why Hinx? May be Purvis and Wade were making a little nod to their glory days on DAD.
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    Yeah, I'm expecting something truly brutal with Hinx but I also want Bond's alternations with other bad guys to be kickass too and not just half arsed punch and shoot scenarios.
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    1. A proper gun-barrel with proper melody, length and at the beginning.

    2. A memorable score throughout the movie

    3. Plot holes. Skyfall is full of it and it hinders the movie of being one of the very best.

    4. Humour (if Craig is at all capable of getting it across the screen)

    5. Q not being the useless imbecile he was in Skyfall.
  • AceHoleAceHole Belgium, via Britain
    Posts: 1,731
    I don't honestly think SP has MAJOR points it needs to address - if it improves upon it's predecessor in a few small areas then it will have succeeded. SF was nearly an excellent Bond film, but it's blatant fan-pandering & lack of stunts let it down.

    Other than some real eye-catching stunts, it's actually the small things that I miss most - like the classic mahogany-office scenes between the M and 007 (DN, OHMSS & TLD did these best, creating real tension between the two characters)... Bond immersing himself in the local culture for just a moment (FRWL & FYEO excelled here)...
    A bit of proper skiing would be nice too, but that's just the winter sport enthusiast in me talking.
  • M_BaljeM_Balje Amsterdam, Netherlands
    edited October 2015 Posts: 4,534
    Elements "Bond 25" must have to tackle all criticism that surrounded "Spectre":

    45 people said: Barbara Broccoli and Michael G Wilson presents (followd by the gunbarrel or the lion)
    32 people said: Gunbarrel back at the start.
    30 people said: Pervis & Wade should not return for Bond 25.
    20 people said: Mabey instumental track for maintitles if Adele not return (with flashbacks)
    18 people said: Movie end with girl and Bond together (Camile??)
    15 people said: The return of Jeffrey Wright/Felix, Olga/Camile (and Adele) should be confirmd so soon as possible.
    12 people said: Quantum and Spectre are not the same/Return of crime syndicate QUANTUM.
    10 people said: Bond should visit Dench M grave.
    8 people said: Tobias Menzies (Villiers) should make a comeback. (Possible as trater)
    6 people said: Mething acting actres like Andrea Riseborough.
    5 people said: Movie should named ''Risico''
    5 people said: Bond 25 in October/November 2018 (We know it be you Sam Mendes!.)
    4 people said: Dominic Green should return.
    3 people said: Moneypenny should lost inportent paper flying out of window who is opend by Tanner.
    3 people said: Bond 25 in 2017
    1 person said: 4 May 2018 as release date
    1 person said: Bond 25 should get famale M again, Malory should die in Spectre.
  • Gustav_GravesGustav_Graves
    Posts: 11,119
    M_Balje wrote: »
    Elements "Bond 25" must have to tackle all criticism that surrounded "Spectre":

    45 people said: Barbara Broccoli and Michael G Wilson presents (followd by the gunbarrel or the lion)
    32 people said: Gunbarrel back at the start.
    30 people said: Pervis & Wade should not return for Bond 25.
    20 people said: Mabey instumental track for maintitles if Adele not return (with flashbacks)
    18 people said: Movie end with girl and Bond together (Camile??)
    15 people said: The return of Jeffrey Wright/Felix, Olga/Camile (and Adele) should be confirmd so soon as possible.
    12 people said: Quantum and Spectre are not the same/Return of crime syndicate QUANTUM.
    10 people said: Bond should visit Dench M grave.
    8 people said: Tobias Menzies (Villiers) should make a comeback. (Possible as trater)
    6 people said: Mething acting actres like Andrea Riseborough.
    5 people said: Movie should named ''Risico''
    5 people said: Bond 25 in October/November 2018 (We know it be you Sam Mendes!.)
    4 people said: Dominic Green should return.
    3 people said: Moneypenny should lost inportent paper flying out of window who is opend by Tanner.
    3 people said: Bond 25 in 2017
    1 person said: 4 May 2018 as release date
    1 person said: Bond 25 should get famale M again, Malory should die in Spectre.

    Hmmm, you count is very different than my count
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    edited October 2015 Posts: 9,020
    Bond 25 should get famale M again, Malory should die in Spectre.

    That proposal is the best, I'm adding that the new female M should be the long lost twin sister of Judi Dench's M.
    :-\"
  • GetafixGetafix
    Posts: 11,425
    BondJasonBond006 wrote: »
    Bond 25 should get famale M again, Malory should die in Spectre.

    That proposal is the best, I'm adding that the new female M should be the long lost twin sister of Judi Dench's M.
    :-\"

    I think you're joking.

  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    Getafix wrote: »
    BondJasonBond006 wrote: »
    Bond 25 should get famale M again, Malory should die in Spectre.

    That proposal is the best, I'm adding that the new female M should be the long lost twin sister of Judi Dench's M.
    :-\"

    I think you're joking.

    Joking? Me? Never! :))
    Of course I was :P
    I just thought of a way to turn Bond even more into a soap opera than they already did with SF.
    I wonder if Babs is a fan of Grey's Anatomy :P
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,358
    I don't know how Dominic Greene can return after receiving two bullets to the head. :))
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    Murdock wrote: »
    I don't know how Dominic Greene can return after receiving two bullets to the head. :))

    I guess you're young! and have not enough TV experience...
    :))

    Bobby Ewing returned from the dead.

    In ALIAS about every character died once or event twice and yet returned to be alive and well!!

    Spock died. And in the end even existed two times at the same time!

    There are a LOT of other examples. And with Green it would be especially easy as him getting shot is only an unverified story, ha!

  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,358
    BondJasonBond006 wrote: »
    Murdock wrote: »
    I don't know how Dominic Greene can return after receiving two bullets to the head. :))

    I guess you're young! and have not enough TV experience...
    :))

    Bobby Ewing returned from the dead.

    In ALIAS about every character died once or event twice and yet returned to be alive and well!!

    Spock died. And in the end even existed two times at the same time!

    There are a LOT of other examples. And with Green it would be especially easy as him getting shot is only an unverified story, ha!

    I'm only 24. Ha. Though I don't watch TV much these days. :p
  • Tuck91Tuck91
    Posts: 1,680
    So, was everyone happy?
  • SaintMarkSaintMark
    Posts: 7,653
    Nope.
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