SPECTRE: TOP 5 elements "SPECTRE" must have to tackle all criticism that surrounded "SKYFALL"

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  • CraterGuns wrote:
    Bring back ...music composer Thomas Newman
    Ugh! No thank you. Skyfall's biggest shortcoming, as far as I'm concerned, is Newman's bland and completely unmemorable score. David Arnold's last two efforts (CR and QOS) were infinitely superior!

    The only Arnold score I'd put SF above is DAD.

    TND, TWINE, CR and QOS were all better imo.
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    Have to agree. Newman wasn't terrible but judging by the beautiful and infinitely more memorable scores by Arnold work for CR and QoS, I'd rather Arnold come back and give Bond the sound he needs for Bond's back to business as usual in Bond 24.
  • Posts: 2,159
    I love Neman's score, but he was stuck between a rock and a hard place, making something that was distinctly of his own style, and something very Barry-esque and Bondian. I think he did it wonderfully.

    I'm sure he learned a hell-ov-a-lot with Skyfall and how to score action heavy blockbusters, and if he were to do Bond 24 (which I hope he does) then the score for it should be even better!
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,277
    M_Balje wrote:
    The cinematopgrapher should give it more glamor, Skyfall missis some TMND glamor.

    You must be joking. ;) SF has the best cinematography of any Bond film.

  • echoecho 007 in New York
    edited January 2013 Posts: 6,277
    Matt007 wrote:
    What about a tense scene with Bond climbing a frozen waterfall, which inevitably collapses.

    This was originally scripted for the PTS for TND but was scrapped because it was too difficult.

    Back on topic for Bond 24: I want a faithful Moonraker, Gala Brand especially.
  • I want to see Bond being more childlike, such as fiddling with gadgets in Q's lab and looking at the ground in pretend shame when having a bollocking from M. When I say childlike I don't mean immature, just that hint of innocence that seemed to come with Connery's portrayal.
  • CIACIA
    Posts: 120
    SPECTRE is Quantum, if you believe that the series has been rebooted. Blofeld is soon to follow.

    I would like to see Connery have a subtle, uncredited cameo in Bond 24. Just a wink at the past. Maybe that's too much to ask?
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited January 2013 Posts: 12,480
    The title of this thread is so er, strong. I just want to say sure, I'd love Mendes to direct again and for sure keep Deakins; and we all want great story and all that. I have little things I'd like, but Blofeld is not a must, neither is Quantum - but I guess I'd like for Quantum to come back in a really well written story.

    Anyway, for me there are few things to criticize Skyfall about. It is a near perfect Bond film, in my opinion, one of the great ones for sure. Quality in every cast member and production value. A good story. I don't feel that "every bit of criticism" of Skyfall must be tackled. But then, the title does get one's attention. C'est la vie.
  • CIACIA
    Posts: 120
    A couple critiques of Skyfall:

    Silva's island looks like a very cool place. I wish they spent more time taking advantage of this beautiful set.

    A succinct scene showing the retrieval of the harddrive containing the NATO operatives from the island may have been warranted.

    Silva's escape from MI6 headquarters was too much to accept. I like to think he had a guy on the inside that helped him escape. Otherwise the guy is a ninja.


  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    Hey - ninjas! I'd love, no kidding, to have part of it in Japan and ninjas, too. That would be cool.
  • Posts: 11,119
    I was just thinking of this great Scottish actress:
    f11fc819c24300b7_07e3a34ea2c2e97a_Cannes-Tilda-Swinton.preview.jpeg

    Wouldn't Tilda be a very good choice for a large female henchwoman role in Bond 24? She will certainly have a nice age in 2014, 54 years, to play a revived/more complicated Rosa Klebb or Irma Bunt.

    I know it's hard to get a 'yes' from Tilda's agent, as she is very picky with roles. But if the screenplay is good enough, I could be 'in' for a true psychotic henchwoman, played by Tilda.
  • Posts: 12,526
    I was just thinking of this great Scottish actress:
    f11fc819c24300b7_07e3a34ea2c2e97a_Cannes-Tilda-Swinton.preview.jpeg

    Wouldn't Tilda be a very good choice for a large female henchwoman role in Bond 24? She will certainly have a nice age in 2014, 54 years, to play a revived/more complicated Rosa Klebb or Irma Bunt.

    I know it's hard to get a 'yes' from Tilda's agent, as she is very picky with roles. But if the screenplay is good enough, I could be 'in' for a true psychotic henchwoman, played by Tilda.

    Be great choice for "Property of a Lady"? :D
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    I had no idea she as that old! Doesn't look it. I enjoyed her in Michael Clayton (good movie).
  • I think we're all agreed on the gunbarrel then?
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    edited January 2013 Posts: 28,694
    I think we're all agreed on the gunbarrel then?

    I have no issue with it at all. At the end, middle, or beginning, I couldn't give a single toss about it. Yes, it is tradition, but far from an importance in the films when you get down to it and review them. I say be happy it is in there at all.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,277
    I think we're all agreed on the gunbarrel then?

    I have no issue with it at all. At the end, middle, or beginning, I couldn't give a single toss about it. Yes, it is tradition, but far from an importance in the films when you get down to it and review them. I say be happy it is in there at all.

    I wouldn't mind if the gunbarrel were gone altogether. It's had its day.

    I think a Gala Brand arc could be interesting and befit a more straightforward mission, although she's maybe a bit too close to Camille.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    echo wrote:
    I think we're all agreed on the gunbarrel then?

    I have no issue with it at all. At the end, middle, or beginning, I couldn't give a single toss about it. Yes, it is tradition, but far from an importance in the films when you get down to it and review them. I say be happy it is in there at all.

    I wouldn't mind if the gunbarrel were gone altogether. It's had its day.

    I think a Gala Brand arc could be interesting and befit a more straightforward mission, although she's maybe a bit too close to Camille.

    I wouldn't go that far. The gunbarrel like the PTS and opening titles and song are things that make Bond special above the rest. I don't want the gunbarrel out, I just don't care where it falls in the film. Just so it is present in some capacity. It is one of those things that when you see it you instantly know you are watching a Bond film.
  • M_BaljeM_Balje Amsterdam, Netherlands
    edited January 2013 Posts: 4,512
    echo wrote:
    M_Balje wrote:
    The cinematopgrapher should give it more glamor, Skyfall missis some TMND glamor.

    You must be joking. ;) SF has the best cinematography of any Bond film.

    The digital mabey then..

    Source: http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/filmdig.htm
    The biggest reason the results look different is the highlights. We're used to the way film looks. It overloads gracefully when things get too light or wash out. This mimics our eye far better than digital. Digital's weak point is that highlights abruptly clip and look horrible as soon as anything hits white. Unlike film there is no gradual overload to white. Digital cameras' characteristic curve heads straight to 255 white and just crashes into the wall. it's the same with video versus motion picture film. If any broad area like a forehead is overexposed your image looks like crap on digital.
  • Posts: 479
    echo wrote:
    I think we're all agreed on the gunbarrel then?

    I have no issue with it at all. At the end, middle, or beginning, I couldn't give a single toss about it. Yes, it is tradition, but far from an importance in the films when you get down to it and review them. I say be happy it is in there at all.

    I wouldn't mind if the gunbarrel were gone altogether. It's had its day.

    I think a Gala Brand arc could be interesting and befit a more straightforward mission, although she's maybe a bit too close to Camille.

    AH..... reboot fanboys at it's highest, why don't we just change the name to the the James Bourne series, next you won't want the bond theme, a title sequence, or any characters associated with bond e.g. M, Q and Moneypenny.... "sigh"

  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    @Sammm04, get over yourself. Thanks for proving you have nothing of substance to say in this argument by pathetically shoving in a Bourne comment. Laughable. Just like Godwin's law, after a while people will naturally make a comparison to Hitler or Nazis, and that is when you know the conversation has nowhere to go. For this site, when a Bourne comparison arises, we know that the conversation can now never be picked back up again from mediocrity.

    Just because some members don't care where the gunbarrel goes (or if it should be there at all) doesn't mean they have no love for older Bond and only reboots. As Dan's era has shown, you can still have a cracking film without conforming to past convention. If anything, CR had the stones to take a risk and have it pay off. CR/QoS have further shown that Moneypenny and Q weren't rightly necessary to make a great Bond film, or any of the other common trimmings. After a while the formula grows stale, and it is nice to have some new innovation where things have been mixed up again.
  • As I am pretty certain that EON Productions has got some 'spy accounts' on here (I found it quite flabbergasting that many of my wishes, I have posed on this forum, have come reality: From a memorable Bond villain to a truly Thunderball-esque way of filming (Roger Deakins). From slowly getting rid of Judi Dench's version of M to a nuanced re-introduction of Q and Moneypenny. And finally, NOT a Bond film with a clichéd car chase in it.

    So, now it's time to gather your TOP 5 of elements Bond 24 must have, to even undo those tiny bit of negative reviews 'Skyfall' got. And, please be serious, as I am quite certain EON Productions is talking about this in their screenplay brainstorm sessions ;-).

    My TOP 5!:

    01) The return of Ernst Stavro Blofeld. Allthough I think Raoul Silva was a memorable villain, it reminded perhaps too many people of Batman's The Joker. So let's return Blofeld. Blofeld is a true BOND villain that can't be compared with any other franchise. It's time to re-introduce the character in a smart, realistic way. Maybe he could be played by Christoph Waltz?

    02) Re-introduce SPECTRE. You can make a very nice story in which QUANTUM will slowly be transformed into SPECTRE. As you know, the secret syndicate QUANTUM got revealed by James Bond in an opera theatre no less. Not so smart Mr White and Dominic Greene! Perhaps now we can see that QUANTUM needs to be secretively re-organized. Perhaps as a cover company in the top floor of the Chicago Sears Tower?

    03) Has anyone seen the 1966 Formula One movie 'Grand Prix'? Why not featuring a Formula One racer in it, that is a member of SPECTRE, but that is endangering SPECTRE's secrecy with his star status? Great to see him killed by a SPECTRE operative during a Formula One race in QATAR. You can make some awesome cinematography with this!

    04) Time to bring the Daniel Kleinman gunbarrel back at the start. Many people missed it. But now MI6 has become a carefully scrutinized secret service, run by a new 'M', it's time for 007 to execute a decent mission. The past three Bond films were really about the introduction of James Bond 007, a revived, more realistic MI6, a new Q, a new M and a new Moneypenny. Bond 24 should be Thunderball-like Bond, opening with a loud bang from a new gunbarrel sequence. At the start!

    05) Bring back director Sam Mendes, cinematographer Roger Deakins, music composer Thomas Newman and screenplay writer John Logan (Logan has already been hired). With these true masters of cinema, another dreamcast can be assembled, perhaps with actors like Christoph Waltz (Blofeld), Kathy Bates or Glenn Close (as an updated version of Rosa Klebb), Carice van Houten (The new Bond-girl) and Luis Guzman (as a new henchman).

    A few other, less important, elements) Bring back some snow in a Bond film? I would love to see the entire 2nd part of Bond 24 being set in the snow (New Zealand Alps, or again Swiss Alps, Sankt Moritz is a very Bond-ian city. Even Sir Roger Moore has a house there). And I truly believe it's time to have Daniel Craig on skies now. We haven't seen Daniel Craig in a white naval uniform. Nice idea? The first half of the movie could be set on more exotic locations, like Qatar (Formula One), Curacao, Indonesia, with an opening credit sequence in Sydney?

    Now, what would your TOP 5 of elements be to make Bond 24 even better than 'SKYFALL'? Before you post yours, let us properly discuss each others TOP 5 first. That makes this topic even more credible.


    I don't like to talk about Bond 24, is the bottom line, just too much too soon, and there's been about a dozen new threads on the subject in as many days by my math, it's better really to contain everything all in one area, surely

    But just what the author said here -

    I for one, would not want to see, once again, Ernst Stavro Blofeld back again, or SPECTRE come to think of it. They simply have no place in todays James Bond world, outdated and obselete characters from by a bygone era. For heavens sake, please don't re-introduce them back once more

    The gun barrel has to go back to what it was, up to, and including, 1999. In that, no CGI bullets, or gun barrels at the end, or after the pre credits sequence as with 2006, I can't believe sometimes what they've done with that

    Mendes was a success this year, but wouldn't really want him back again as director any time soon. Still holding out for Campbell in a third return in the chair

    Furthermore, you won't see Craig in a naval uniform or resembling Richard Gere in An Officer and a Gentleman, as it would merely cover up his physique and only half dressed shots of Craig are generally allowed, so it's a no-no to too much clothes it would seem. I'd like to see Bond in Australia also incidentally, as it hasn't been done yet I don't think, sure of it in fact, and a pre credits sequence, or any sequence, in say Sydney, Melbourne or Adelaide for example, would be something to see. Bond has to take in a bit of antipodean adventure sooner or later
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    edited January 2013 Posts: 6,277
    @Sammm04, get over yourself. Thanks for proving you have nothing of substance to say in this argument by pathetically shoving in a Bourne comment. Laughable. Just like Godwin's law, after a while people will naturally make a comparison to Hitler or Nazis, and that is when you know the conversation has nowhere to go. For this site, when a Bourne comparison arises, we know that the conversation can now never be picked back up again from mediocrity.

    Just because some members don't care where the gunbarrel goes (or if it should be there at all) doesn't mean they have no love for older Bond and only reboots. As Dan's era has shown, you can still have a cracking film without conforming to past convention. If anything, CR had the stones to take a risk and have it pay off. CR/QoS have further shown that Moneypenny and Q weren't rightly necessary to make a great Bond film, or any of the other common trimmings. After a while the formula grows stale, and it is nice to have some new innovation where things have been mixed up again.

    Thank you.

    I don't feel that it was a detriment that Q and Moneypenny were not in CR; in a way, their omission befit a leaner, meaner Bond. I am all for the jettisoning of the pun-laden love scene at the end, unless the story calls for it (see TSWLM for the perfect example). I liked that both QoS and SF gave us a Bond/M scene rather than a Bond/girl scene at the very end.

    I like when the Bond girl first appears at the right moment in the story, even if it is late, like Honey in DN or Vesper in CR. I don't like it when she is shoehorned into the first act: Stacey Sutton, I'm looking at you.

    I also didn't think that Q was missed in LALD, nor M in FYEO.

    I prefer it when the series takes risks rather than reverting to an obvious formula.
  • edited January 2013 Posts: 11,119
    Okay, time for an update (01.04.2012). It's kinda hard to make a combined list of all TOP 5's mentioned. Moreover, not everyone made a TOP 5, but they sticked to a story full of (very good !) ideas. So what did I do?

    I first made a list of all elements/aspects that were mentioned to tackle every bit of criticism that surrounded 'Skyfall' and that could be improved for Bond 24. Then I counted all the aspects/elements; how many times they were mentioned.

    So, here is that list of 'Most frequent mentionings of aspects/elements that could be improved for Bond 24':

    13 mentionings --> 'Gunbarrel back at the start'
    10 mentionings --> 'Simple, plain mission briefing in M's office'
    09 mentionings --> 'Return of more psychotic Ernst Stavro Blofeld (Christoph Waltz?)'


    07 mentionings --> 'Memorable henchman/henchwoman (Tilda Swinton?)'
    07 mentionings --> 'Better memorable music score/No Thomas Newman'
    05 mentionings --> 'James Bond in the snow/Ski scenes'
    =================================================================
    05 mentionings --> 'Escapist locations, smarter use of it'
    05 mentionings --> 'Larger role for Felix Leiter'
    05 mentionings --> 'Better fist fights'
    04 mentionings --> 'Bond bedding the Bond girl at the end'
    04 mentionings --> 'More clever, less brutal action'
    03 mentionings --> 'Return of crime syndicate QUANTUM'
    03 mentionings --> 'Lush, escapist production design'
    02 mentionings --> 'Return of crime syndicate S.P.E.C.T.R.E.'
    02 mentionings --> 'Bring in Formula One racing, new kind of carchase'
    02 mentionings --> 'Bring back SKYFALL-crew, including director Sam Mendes'
    02 mentionings --> 'Commander James Bond 007 in naval uniform'
    02 mentionings --> 'Return of Barry's 007 theme'
    02 mentionings --> 'Bring in new/previous crew, including director Martin Campbell'
    02 mentionings --> 'A straightforward Bond adventure'
    02 mentionings --> 'Less CGI that is too obvious'
    02 mentionings --> 'Wodka Martini, shaken......not stirred!'
    01 mentionings --> 'A Gala Brandt story arc'
    01 mentionings --> 'More funny Q-gadgets'
  • So the gunbarrel won then?

    Anyway, I'd like Blofeld back, but I'm not sure about SPECTRE. Maybe they could do what Gustav said and slowly transform them, but I don't see the point introducing a new organisation only to go back to the old bad guys.

    I say make Blofeld head of Quantum, or have him working solo.
  • MrBondMrBond Station S
    Posts: 2,044
    My things for Bond 24 would be something like this:

    1) Take back Jeffrey Wrights Leiter, i think he has a lots of good potential to develop his friendship with Bond ala LALD the book.

    2) Bond goes against Quantum. Preferable a villain like Largo in TB who works for Quantum and has enough with charisma to be the main-villain. But during the course of the film we get to know that this villain works for Quantum. And all of this takes us closer to " the final battle " in Bond 25.

    3) Bring back Mendes, Campbell or Forster and their respective crews.

    4) Have Tanner, Q, Moneypenny back but in smaller roles. But not as small as their roles were in Brosnans era, but that all of them can get say 30 minutes together in the film.

    And about the gunbarrel, yes it would be nice to have it at start but it is nothing that i really care for. If it doesen't fit the start then it shouldn't be shoved in. The same goes with the girl at the end.
  • MrBond wrote:
    And about the gunbarrel, yes it would be nice to have it at start but it is nothing that i really care for. If it doesen't fit the start then it shouldn't be shoved in.

    I don't buy the "it didn't fit at the start argument" Mendes used.

    Like somebody else said on another thread (can't remember who, sorry), when they were storyboarding and thinking about the films opening, that should've been the first thing. Gunbarrel, then work from there.

    If you leave it as an afterthought then stick it on and discover it doesn't work because of the opening shot, well that's your own fault. And I don't think the opening shot was that good either.

    Out of focus Bond walks down a corridor, comes into view and gets his gun out. Is that really better than the white dots rolling across the screen for the first time in 10 years, maybe stopping and saying "celebrating 50 years of Bond", big proper Bond theme with either the old design or the Brosnan one, Craig walking out cooly and not doing a fast bullheaded walk, and blood which is in time with the music and doesn't quickly and arkwardly shoot down the screen?

    And it WAS shoved in for SF. "Ok films done, lets put the gunbarrel in, oh that doesn't work, lets just stick it at the end then" "Which gunbarrel shall we use" "Ah just use the crappy QOS one except stick in a new pose"
  • Posts: 479
    @Sammm04, get over yourself. Thanks for proving you have nothing of substance to say in this argument by pathetically shoving in a Bourne comment. Laughable. Just like Godwin's law, after a while people will naturally make a comparison to Hitler or Nazis, and that is when you know the conversation has nowhere to go. For this site, when a Bourne comparison arises, we know that the conversation can now never be picked back up again from mediocrity.

    Just because some members don't care where the gunbarrel goes (or if it should be there at all) doesn't mean they have no love for older Bond and only reboots. As Dan's era has shown, you can still have a cracking film without conforming to past convention. If anything, CR had the stones to take a risk and have it pay off. CR/QoS have further shown that Moneypenny and Q weren't rightly necessary to make a great Bond film, or any of the other common trimmings. After a while the formula grows stale, and it is nice to have some new innovation where things have been mixed up again.

    well, IT'S TRUE, Bond fans of now have very little appreciation of the routes, without which there would be no Bond series of films, and BTW I think Craig is brilliant as Bond, I just get annoyed when people completely want the Franchise changed and with very little remnants of what is left, and even you must agree, QOS was very Bourne-like, maybe not Skyfall, but I think conforming to the norm of cinema (by this I mean Bourne style action, I love Bourne films, but that kind of film is not what we want in a Bond) is not going to make films unique, it just makes them predictable and VERY boring.

    Also, can I just say that I think the sometimes prejudice against Brosnan and Moore on this forum is very unfair, sure you guys think they didn't star in the best films of the series, but that doesn't detriment their performance, once again I think that this has shown the Bias towards Craig, as despite the fact QOS was an absolute disappointment and the worst film of the series, people still say things like "oh he's great" and "he's definitely the best Bond". I don't know why this hasn't applied to Moore and Brosnan, because guys on this forum always say "Oh Brosnan and Moore starred in some of the worst, therefore they're rubbish". I just don't like the bias to the current Bond.

  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    @SAmmm04, of course I don't compare Bond and Bourne in QoS. They are two separate films and warrant no comparison. It is the argument of one who has nothing important to say. The "Yo Momma" of Bond, if you will.

    The Craig era has plenty from the past Bonds that let you know you are watching a Bond film. And like I said, it gets boring to have the same formula again and again, so I am glad CR, QoS and Skyfall mixed the cards up.
    MrBond wrote:
    And about the gunbarrel, yes it would be nice to have it at start but it is nothing that i really care for. If it doesen't fit the start then it shouldn't be shoved in.

    I don't buy the "it didn't fit at the start argument" Mendes used.

    Like somebody else said on another thread (can't remember who, sorry), when they were storyboarding and thinking about the films opening, that should've been the first thing. Gunbarrel, then work from there.

    If you leave it as an afterthought then stick it on and discover it doesn't work because of the opening shot, well that's your own fault. And I don't think the opening shot was that good either.

    Out of focus Bond walks down a corridor, comes into view and gets his gun out. Is that really better than the white dots rolling across the screen for the first time in 10 years, maybe stopping and saying "celebrating 50 years of Bond", big proper Bond theme with either the old design or the Brosnan one, Craig walking out cooly and not doing a fast bullheaded walk, and blood which is in time with the music and doesn't quickly and arkwardly shoot down the screen?

    And it WAS shoved in for SF. "Ok films done, lets put the gunbarrel in, oh that doesn't work, lets just stick it at the end then" "Which gunbarrel shall we use" "Ah just use the crappy QOS one except stick in a new pose"

    To be truthful, the opening we got was far better than a gun barrel. I love Bond far in frame, becoming visible with the striking tune of the Bond theme. It gets your pulse going and invested in the film. A gun barrel we have seen so many times before wouldn't have had that same affect, and I am glad they have distanced themselves from that tradition that has turned into more of a predictable add on.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    Christopher Waitz (however his last name is spelled...) would be an AWESOME villain, yes. And I agree with thelivingroyale about Blofeld. I wouldn't mind Blofeld returning under the same name, with a slightly (or even very) different look - but I do want him to be part of Quantum because I think that gives a good story line and moves the Bond films forward in a good way.

    I'd like a decent gun barrel shot, preferably at the beginning, but I'm not fussed about it. I did like Skyfall's opening very much.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,959
    Waltz would be a great villain, but I want a straight forward mission against someone who could physically challenge Bond. So far, we've had a numerical genius, someone who is focused on reaping crucial supplies, and a psychopath bent on revenge. While they sound good, why not someone who is going to give a brutal beatdown to Bond at the end that will challenge Bond's strength to the max?

    And please, don't give me a Bane comparison. He doesn't have to break Bond's back in the middle of the film; I'm merely speaking of a very strong villain that will inevitably fight Bond. I've wanted this well before TDKR.
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