SPECTRE: TOP 5 elements "SPECTRE" must have to tackle all criticism that surrounded "SKYFALL"

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  • edited January 2013 Posts: 12,837
    A gun barrel we have seen so many times before wouldn't have had that same affect, and I am glad they have distanced themselves from that tradition that has turned into more of a predictable add on.

    The gunbarrel hasn't been there for 10 years. It's not predictable anymore. I'm just going to assume it's at the end from now on, so if it is at the start in the next one it'll be a nice surprise. If not, well I wasn't expecting it.

    Like I said, a gunbarrel that says it's the 50th in the white dots with the theme from FRWL/GF playing and the Brosnan or old school design would've said "Bond is back" to me much more more than Bond standing in a corridor. I think we'll just have to agree to disagree on this.

    I don't think you can beat a gunbarrel opening. Seeing the white dots flash across a cinema screen is brilliant because it lets you know instantly that it is a Bond film. Other films would be desperate for something like this to open a film.

    It's the 50th anniversary and they stuck the gunbarrel at the end again. Shame.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    edited January 2013 Posts: 28,694
    A gun barrel we have seen so many times before wouldn't have had that same affect, and I am glad they have distanced themselves from that tradition that has turned into more of a predictable add on.

    The gunbarrel hasn't been there for 10 years. It's not predictable anymore. I'm just going to assume it's at the end from now on, so if it is at the start in the next one it'll be a nice surprise. If not, well I wasn't expecting it.

    Like I said, a gunbarrel that says it's the 50th in the white dots with the theme from FRWL/GF playing and the Brosnan or old school design would've said "Bond is back" to me much more more than Bond standing in a corridor. I think we'll just have to agree to disagree on this.

    I don't think you can beat a gunbarrel opening. Seeing the white dots flash across a cinema screen is brilliant because it lets you know instantly that it is a Bond film. Other films would be desperate for something like this to open a film.

    It's the 50th anniversary and they stuck the gunbarrel at the end again. Shame.

    It may be 10 years, but it's only been 3 films. A gun barrel that was there for 40 years isn't suddenly going to become unpredictable in barely a decade.
  • edited January 2013 Posts: 12,837
    It's been all over the place, the middle, the end, the start with a CGI bullet, etc.

    I think it is unpredictable because you can't predict what they're going to do to it next anymore.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    It's been all over the place, the middle, the end, the start with a CGI bullet, etc.

    I think it is unpredictable because you can't predict what they're going to do to it next anymore.

    And I find that a lot cooler than having it at the beginning all the time.
  • Posts: 12
    Personally for me not having the gun barrel at the start instantly loses that couple of seconds of magic from knowing this a bond film, its that timeless classic one moment that makes you think "Yessssss" im watching a Bond film.
    The gun barrel remixed, re-edited, recut at the end or in the middle is just not the same no matter how clear or arty and is a huge shame that on the 50th Anniversary it wasn't where it should have been.

    I understand the arc and change of the gun barrel in Casino and Quantum but Skyfall should have had it back where it belongs.

    Its not about it being stale or changing things up, in fact they could modernise it and get Ikea to do the graphics for all I'm concerned The only thing is my mind thats perfectly clear is that this is a proper iconic image that should remain going in one form or the other at the beginning of the film.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    edited January 2013 Posts: 6,277
    Sammm04 wrote:
    @Sammm04, get over yourself. Thanks for proving you have nothing of substance to say in this argument by pathetically shoving in a Bourne comment. Laughable. Just like Godwin's law, after a while people will naturally make a comparison to Hitler or Nazis, and that is when you know the conversation has nowhere to go. For this site, when a Bourne comparison arises, we know that the conversation can now never be picked back up again from mediocrity.

    Just because some members don't care where the gunbarrel goes (or if it should be there at all) doesn't mean they have no love for older Bond and only reboots. As Dan's era has shown, you can still have a cracking film without conforming to past convention. If anything, CR had the stones to take a risk and have it pay off. CR/QoS have further shown that Moneypenny and Q weren't rightly necessary to make a great Bond film, or any of the other common trimmings. After a while the formula grows stale, and it is nice to have some new innovation where things have been mixed up again.

    well, IT'S TRUE, Bond fans of now have very little appreciation of the routes, without which there would be no Bond series of films, and BTW I think Craig is brilliant as Bond, I just get annoyed when people completely want the Franchise changed and with very little remnants of what is left, and even you must agree, QOS was very Bourne-like, maybe not Skyfall, but I think conforming to the norm of cinema (by this I mean Bourne style action, I love Bourne films, but that kind of film is not what we want in a Bond) is not going to make films unique, it just makes them predictable and VERY boring.

    Also, can I just say that I think the sometimes prejudice against Brosnan and Moore on this forum is very unfair, sure you guys think they didn't star in the best films of the series, but that doesn't detriment their performance, once again I think that this has shown the Bias towards Craig, as despite the fact QOS was an absolute disappointment and the worst film of the series, people still say things like "oh he's great" and "he's definitely the best Bond". I don't know why this hasn't applied to Moore and Brosnan, because guys on this forum always say "Oh Brosnan and Moore starred in some of the worst, therefore they're rubbish". I just don't like the bias to the current Bond.
    There is a pervasive anti-Moore and -Brosnan, and pro-Connery and -Craig, mood on this site. And maybe it's wrong, maybe it's right. Who knows? Film is subjective and tastes change as fast as Moore's brown/orange plaid jacket in TMWTGG. People seemed to be more or less okay with Brosnan in 1999, but then the series apparently went too far in 2002.

    The Bond-is-ripping-off-Bourne argument is more tired and uninformed. Sure, there have been moments (QoS in particular), but people forget that Bourne is inspired by Bond too (his initials, the beginning of the second Bourne movie is the end of OHMSS, etc.).

    And the Bond films have always followed trends, both cultural (Star Wars/Moonraker et al) and political (monogamy in TLD, drug wars in LTK, 9/11 in CR and 7/7 in SF). It's overly reductive to say that one series (Bourne) has been the sole influence on recent Bonds.
  • edited February 2013 Posts: 11,119
    I wholeheartedly agree with you there.

    But in the mean time....what would your TOP 5 be?
  • Keep updating please. I want to give my newest update this weekend.
  • edited March 2013 Posts: 11,119
    So, here is that list of 'Most frequent mentionings of aspects/elements that could be improved for Bond 24' as of March 4th 2013:

    13 mentionings --> 'Gunbarrel back at the start'
    10 mentionings --> 'Simple, plain mission briefing in M's office'
    09 mentionings --> 'Return of more psychotic Ernst Stavro Blofeld (Christoph Waltz?)'


    07 mentionings --> 'Memorable henchman/henchwoman (Tilda Swinton?)'
    07 mentionings --> 'Better memorable music score/No Thomas Newman'
    05 mentionings --> 'James Bond in the snow/Ski scenes'
    =================================================================
    05 mentionings --> 'Escapist locations, smarter use of it'
    05 mentionings --> 'Larger role for Felix Leiter'
    05 mentionings --> 'Better fist fights'
    04 mentionings --> 'Bond bedding the Bond girl at the end'
    04 mentionings --> 'More clever, less brutal action'
    03 mentionings --> 'Return of crime syndicate QUANTUM'
    03 mentionings --> 'Lush, escapist production design'
    02 mentionings --> 'Return of crime syndicate S.P.E.C.T.R.E.'
    02 mentionings --> 'Bring in Formula One racing, new kind of carchase'
    02 mentionings --> 'Bring back SKYFALL-crew, including director Sam Mendes'
    02 mentionings --> 'Commander James Bond 007 in naval uniform'
    02 mentionings --> 'Return of Barry's 007 theme'
    02 mentionings --> 'Bring in new/previous crew, including director Martin Campbell'
    02 mentionings --> 'A straightforward Bond adventure'
    02 mentionings --> 'Less CGI that is too obvious'
    02 mentionings --> 'Wodka Martini, shaken......not stirred!'
    01 mentionings --> 'A Gala Brandt story arc'
    01 mentionings --> 'More funny Q-gadgets'

    What is your TOP 5? Keep updating please :-).
  • Posts: 172
    1. Gunbarrel at start. Classic one.
    2. David Arnold and Phil Meheux.
    3. Snow chase with car. Maybe Aston Martin?
    4. 007 theme.
    5. Bond with girl at the end but NOT IN BED. Something like in TLD, LTK, GE, TND or CR.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,959
    Wait, how did I just notice others wanting Christoph Waltz as a Bond villain? Please, no, that film would be TOO good for me to handle. I would implode from how amazing it would be.

    Serious.

    I think Waltz or Hugh Laurie would make great psychological villains, but I really want a menacing villain that can beat Bond physically; something that will lead to one really intense fist fight at the end of the movie.
  • Posts: 11,119
    Creasy47 wrote:
    Wait, how did I just notice others wanting Christoph Waltz as a Bond villain? Please, no, that film would be TOO good for me to handle. I would implode from how amazing it would be.

    Serious.

    I think Waltz or Hugh Laurie would make great psychological villains, but I really want a menacing villain that can beat Bond physically; something that will lead to one really intense fist fight at the end of the movie.

    Let's re-introduce Bane LOL :-P.
  • Posts: 12,837
    It's been all over the place, the middle, the end, the start with a CGI bullet, etc.

    I think it is unpredictable because you can't predict what they're going to do to it next anymore.

    And I find that a lot cooler than having it at the beginning all the time.

    Fair enough, your own opinion and everything.

    Personally I think every time they've messed about with it it's been sh*t (apart from CR, it worked there as a one off) and it's never been as good as it was at the beginning.

    It's been 13 years and 4 films since we had a normal (as in no CGI bullets or anything) gunbarrel at the start, and 11 years since we had one with a good design. And personally I think that's a real shame.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,959
    @Gustav_Graves, that's what I don't want: someone comparing 'Bond 24' to TDKR with some huge, muscle-laden brute that breaks Bond's back. Just someone as physically fit as Bond that puts up a really good fist fight.
  • MartinBondMartinBond Trying not to muck it up again
    Posts: 860
    001) Scene 1: Gunbarrel. 99.8% of every Bond fan movie starts with it, with a reason. It's epic, it sets the mood, it's movie brilliance.

    002) A villian-ally mixup, I loved the scene with the recorder under the table light in FYEO.

    003) Dinner with danger. Bond and the villain in a " your spectre against mine" - kind of conversation.

    004) Bonding with the girl at the end.

    005) Felix and Bond partnering up. Felix being more than just a contact for a minute.
  • Posts: 11,119
    Creasy47 wrote:
    @Gustav_Graves, that's what I don't want: someone comparing 'Bond 24' to TDKR with some huge, muscle-laden brute that breaks Bond's back. Just someone as physically fit as Bond that puts up a really good fist fight.

    I'm just joking. Really. To be honest? I'd prefer to see a very suave villain. One that's as psychotic as Silva, but that has got better control over his vengeful emotions. Someone like......Blofeld ;-)!
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,277
    "TOP 5 elements Bond 24 MUST have to tackle every bit of criticism that surrounded 'SKYFALL' "

    Adele's boobies. Whilst she sings the title tune. And in the gunbarrel.
  • Posts: 11,119
    echo wrote:
    "TOP 5 elements Bond 24 MUST have to tackle every bit of criticism that surrounded 'SKYFALL' "

    Adele's boobies. Whilst she sings the title tune. And in the gunbarrel.

    maybe that's better than seeing your boobies @echo ;-).
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    edited March 2013 Posts: 9,117
    I think it is unpredictable because you can't predict what they're going to do to it next anymore.

    And I find that a lot cooler than having it at the beginning all the time.

    Does that make Mario Balotelli cool? No it makes him a tosser.

    Can you imagine any other company ditching their brand logo with such alacrity?


    You notice how the MGM Lion is always up front - because that's its place!

    Why not put the end credits in the middle of the film after say 17 minutes? That would also be unpredictable and 'cool' would it?

    At the end of the day you are making a product like a burger that people eat for comfort (no matter Babs arty pretensions. Art films dont take 1 bil at the box office).
    Now you can have a McDonald's processed burger like the Brosnan era where every single box was religiously ticked or you can have a fine steak burger with mature cheddar and caramelised red onion chutney but at the end of the day when it says burger on the menu the customer expects (and wants) it to look like a burger. If you just heap all the ingredients on a plate or leave some of them out you might get some trendy people saying how 'unpredictable and cool' you are but there will be a hell of a lot more who will be pissed off as they came in expecting a good honest burger.
  • edited March 2013 Posts: 11,189
    Dammit @Wizard now you have made me want a burger :(
  • HASEROTHASEROT has returned like the tedious inevitability of an unloved season---
    edited March 2013 Posts: 4,399
    1. Gunbarrel returning to the beginning... though it does not a good Bond movie make, it's been the tradition for the first 40 years.. i understood it's placement for CR, and even to a degree it's placement in QOS - but SF really should've had it at the start.. while the opening shot was cool, it was not like it was the 'alpha and omega' to a start of a film, a different shot could've been figured out to incorporate the gunbarrel.

    2. The return of QUANTUM (sans Blofeld)... it was nice to have Bond on a mission that didn't involve QUANTUM for SF, but i think it's essential that it returns in Bond 24 (or Bond 25).. but they need to return.. the organization wasn't the problem with QOS (other factors were).. but i thought they handled this shady organization well, and gave us just a little insight, but not a lot - to keep that mystery going.... the one thing that annoyed me during the pre-release media storm for SF, was the assumption that this film was somehow ignoring that QOS (and to a degree CR) ever happened - that this was starting things over, yet again, because of the critical response that QOS recieved.. that couldn't be further from the case, as EON had come forth after QOS and said that the next film would be a stand alone mission, not involving QUANTUM - and that they very well could and will return in the future..

    the caviot to all of this is NOT having Blofeld turn up as the head of QUANTUM.. for 2 reasons i see his return being a terrible idea...
    #1 - EON have gone on record as to saying that they are not going back and remaking any of the previous Bond films, or recycling old villains.. bringing Blofeld back goes completely against this statement.. in essence, bringing him back would be no better than remaking an old Bond film.. whats done is done, let the past be the past, quit living in it and lets move forward...
    #2 - it's too damned predictable... the biggest deflating a balloon moment would be to reveal Blofeld as the head of QUANTUM - many would disagree with me, but it's true.. why?.. because it's expected... we get the reemergence of a big shadowy organization with the power to manipulate global events, hmmm i wonder who the head guy could be?? - almost immediately, everyone's first thought runs to the man with the cat... BIG MISTAKE... as i previously said, let's tread new ground with this organization and see where it takes us - i mean, they've already done so already.. where in old days SPECTRE liked to be in the forefront, to let everyone know they were the ones in control.. whereas QUANTUM chooses to do their work behind closed doors and with as little notoriety as possible - like an Illuminati type organization...

    3. Bring Arnold Back... While Thomas Newman's score has grown on me the more and more I listen to it, i would be lying to say the i dont miss Arnold's sweeping melodies that he can often create... if John Glenn could go back to Barry after using Conti for FYEO, then Mendes can go back to Arnold.... and speaking of Mendes...

    4. Get Mendes and Deakins back - whatever the cost... the Bond franchise has been lacking continuity from the directors chair for a long time, and also a director who so openly loves the character and loved working on the film.. the combination of Mendes and Deakins proved to be a resounding success, and it's obvious that Craig and company loved working for the man.... i find it interesting that Mendes said "I said all I've needed to say with Skyfall." - when earlier reports from onset of the film had Craig and Mendes coming up with several ideas for the future Bond films.. I personally believe EON will do whatever it takes to keep this team together, as it made well over a billion dollars, and became the highest grossing Bond film of all time - as well as the 7th highest grossing film in worldwide history - as well as nabbing them 2 Oscars (something they hadn't done since 1965).

    5. Lets hear the Bond theme some more... the Bond theme, or variants of it were used in SF, for what felt like the first time in forever.. but I miss hearing the theme itself over a big action piece, something that hasn't been done since DAD believe it or not..
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    edited March 2013 Posts: 9,117
    BAIN123 wrote:
    Dammit @Wizard now you have made me want a burger :(

    Just remember that when the chef serves the burger raw, leaves out the cheese and ketchup and chops the bun into little croutons and fries them in butter that he is being 'cool' not annoying.
  • AliAli
    Posts: 319
    No ludicrously long winded plan by the villain that somehow works out despite a dozen coincidences having to be just right.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,959
    As much as I didn't mind SF's handling of gunbarrel placement - although the gunbarrel itself was terrible - I really want to see it at the beginning of the film this time. Open me up to a great PTS with it, please.
  • edited March 2013 Posts: 12,837
    @TheWizardOfIce Very well said =D> Glad I'm not the only one who hates how they've been dicking around with the gunbarrel.
  • Posts: 21
    Alan007 wrote:
    1. A proper gunbarrel in the right place
    2. "shaken not stirred"
    3. M giving bond a mission and only seen then or at the very end saying well done 007
    4. Bond and Felix working together
    5. Ski sequence
    6. Commander Bond, in his navy uniform

    Not concerned about Blofeld/SPECTRE as I assume thats the direction we're going in with Quantum and the unknown head

    I agree with you 100% Alan. I would say the same.

    Also if they re-add Blofeld into it and SPECTRE then it still rebooting the series. I think that has been completed and time to move on.

  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    edited March 2013 Posts: 28,694
    I find it funny that some people think Fiennes's M will only appear in the briefing and maybe at the end. He will likely be in the films a lot more than that.
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    Posts: 13,355
    Quite. This is the new way the films work and have done since GoldenEye. 'Old Bond' is dead, long live the future.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Samuel001 wrote:
    Quite. This is the new way the films work and have done since GoldenEye. 'Old Bond' is dead, long live the future.

    Though many may hate to admit it, Fiennes isn't getting paid this much to just appear at the beginning and end. I mean, he's RALPH FIENNES. He is obviously going to appear a lot in the coming films. That would be like paying Daniel Day Lewis $50,000 for only a two minute cameo. EON will get their money's worth with Ralph, meaning he will continue to be like Judi's M and appear largely in the future films.
  • Posts: 11,119
    Samuel001 wrote:
    Quite. This is the new way the films work and have done since GoldenEye. 'Old Bond' is dead, long live the future.

    Though many may hate to admit it, Fiennes isn't getting paid this much to just appear at the beginning and end. I mean, he's RALPH FIENNES. He is obviously going to appear a lot in the coming films. That would be like paying Daniel Day Lewis $50,000 for only a two minute cameo. EON will get their money's worth with Ralph, meaning he will continue to be like Judi's M and appear largely in the future films.

    Not so sure. Certain famous actors do you like to have a small recurring role in a movie franchise. They see it as an honor. Look to Michael Caine and Morgan Freeman in Batman.
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